View source for 咽頭べさ

{{User:咽頭べさ/Top icon |imagename=Flag of the Mon people.gif |wikilink=Mon National Day |description=Mon National Flag |id= |width=50 |height=30 |sortkey= |nocat= }}
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| colspan="2" width="100%" bgcolor="#FF69B4" align="center" |<center><div style="letter-spacing:3px; font-size:300%"><font color="blue">[[File:Love_Flag_English.png|100x100px]]Hello, Welcome to the user talk.[[File:Love_Mon_Flag.png|100x100px]]<br />မ္ၚဵုရအဴ၊ ဒုင်တၠုင်ဏာနူကဵုညးလွပ်ဓရီုကျာဏအ်ရအဴ။</font></div></center>
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|<div class="nomobile">[[File:Welcome to Mon National Day mnw to en.png|link=en:w:Mon National Day|center|1000x1000px|Welcome to Mon National Day]]</div>
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{{Welcome/lang|user=咽頭べさ|welcominguser=WikiLucas00|1=— '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 14:36, 27 May 2021 (UTC)}}

== Mon language and lists ==
Hello {{ping|咽頭べさ}} welcome!

I noticed you made two recordings today: [[File:LL-Q9217 (tha)-咽頭べさ-Mon people.wav]] and [[File:LL-Q9228 (mya)-咽頭べさ-Dog.wav]].

There are two issues with these recordings:
* you pronounced the first word in Thai and the second one in Burmese (if the languages chosen are correct), but you wrote both words in English ("Mon people" and "dog"). On Lingua Libre, we write down the word in the language we record (and you can add the translation later, on the file page). Next time, please use the alphabet of the language you record instead of the English translation.
* The second issue is the bad sound quality. This is not your fault, we are currently dealing with sound issues. But one should always verify the content and the quality of one's recordings before uploading them to Wikimedia Commons.

These mistakes are not a big issue, but please take this advice into account before recording more words.

Again, welcome to Lingua Libre, don't hesitate to ask me any question on my talk page, or here 🙂

All the best, — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 14:55, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

::Hi, {{ping|WikiLucas00}}, Actually, I want my audio file to be included in Mon language (mnw), Lingua Libre does not include Mon language, so I used ''mya'' for Dog [[Q555537]]) and ''tha'' for Mon people [[Q555440]]. Lingua Libre does not include Mon language, so I was very disappointed to continue using Lingua Libre. I am Mon people, I was born in Kawtut Village, Lamaing Township, Mon State, I have studied in 6 countries, Thailand, India, China, Myanmar, American, Korea and Japan. I intended to use Lingua Libre for the Mon language dictionary, but it was not possible to continue using Lingua Libre because Lingua Libre did not include Mon language, thanks.--[[User:咽頭べさ|咽頭べさ]] ([[User talk:咽頭べさ|talk]]) 07:43, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
:::Hello 咽頭べさ, allow me to answer since I noticed your message.
:::Mon language (mnw) have been added into Lingualibre ([[Q555966]]), so you now can record in it.
:::In [[Special:RecordWizard]], step 2, add "Mon" to your user/speaker.
:::You will then need a list of ''Mon'' word to record and you are ready to go. [https://github.com/lingua-libre/unilex-extended/blob/main/frequency-sorted-hash/mnw.txt This list] under open license can be used. It's a computer generated list from wnw websites, so there is some noise (English), but it creates a starting point. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:29, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

::[[File:Hello mnw.gif|50x50px]]Hello{{ping|Yug}},I'm very happy to add Mon language, I will never forget the thanks of User [[User:Yug|Yug]] for adding Mon language. I'm going to test with an iPhone to get clear audio for audio files, I am the main author of the Mon dictionary. I do not know how to use Lingua Libre yet, so I have to learn, if I have made a mistake in Lingua Libre, please forgive me, thanks.--[[User:咽頭べさ|咽頭べさ]] ([[User talk:咽頭べさ|talk]]) 09:19, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
:::Mon language was imported by WikiLucas ;), but I give an help by guiding you a bit.
:::Your first 100 audios may be a bit messy, but then you can re-record them when you have a good place (no noise), etc.
:::Iphones have good microphones and sound card, it's a good way to go for better audio, yes. 
:::I just created the local [[List:mnw/Unilex]] : it will be more convenient from Iphone. You can load that list as follow :
:::# In [[Special:RecordWizard]]'s step 3
:::# Set "You record words in:" to "Mon"
:::# '''Click on "Local list", select that "mnw/Wiktionary" list.'''
:::# Click on "Remove words already recorded"
:::Please also '''note that we are limited at 380 recording per 2 hours''' I believe. Our best contributors just upload 300 words/day but in a regular and playful fashion. ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:09, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
::::
::{{ping|Yug}},The [[List:mnw/Unilex]] you provided contains misspellings and terms not related to the Mon dictionary. Next, some of the "mnw/Unilex" vocabulary you gave me is already in the Commons, you can view it at [[:c:Category:Mon pronunciation]], thanks.--[[User:咽頭べさ|咽頭べさ]] ([[User talk:咽頭べさ|talk]]) 10:48, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
:::You can edit and improve [[List:mnw/Unilex]] as you edit any wiki page.
:::LinguaLibre creates a new audio datasets in your language within [[:c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation-mnw]]. Given Lili's speed it will be faster (20~30mins) to re-record [[:c:Category:Mon pronunciation]]'s 370 words, and it's the way to go. To do so I created [[List:mnw/Commons]]. Remember to click "Remove words already recorded" when you proceed on Lingualibre.
:::For some time, both categories will exist. Yet, Lingualibre provides fast recording, standard naming convention, a bots to spread your audios to wiktionaries, so Lili should be your base approach to contribute new audios to Commons and to your dictionary. More tools are underway, as "download per language" and others, which your project will benefit from. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:39, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Yug}},I'm busy writing dictionary articles for Mon Wiktionary development, I am currently the only author of several dictionary articles on Mon Wiktionary, if you need Mon vocabulary you can check [[:wikt:mnw:ဝိက်ရှေန်နရဳ:သ္ဍံၚ်/က]], I have been working tirelessly for Mon Dictionary and Mon Wiktionary development, thanks.--[[User:咽頭べさ|咽頭べさ]] ([[User talk:咽頭べさ|talk]]) 15:37, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
:Nearly 2000 items in that page. It could be a nice « Mon dictionary for students » indeed.  [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:50, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

== Words ==
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]''
Hello 咽頭べさ, I answered to you on https://LinguaLibre.org . [[User:Yug|Yug]] [[User talk:Yug|<small><font style="color:green;">(talk)</font></small>]] 08:44, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
:Hi again,
:Can you tell me why there is both [[:File:Mnw-ကစေံ1.wav]] and [[:File:Mnw-ကစေံ2.wav]] ? Are they the same word ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] [[User talk:Yug|<small><font style="color:green;">(talk)</font></small>]] 12:04, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
::{{Ping|Yug}},In Mon language, audio read and audio speak are often different, the pronunciation of the Mon language varies from region to region. the explanation of your question is as follows:
::*[[File:Mnw-ကစေံ1.wav|50px|noicon]] Audio read
::*[[File:Mnw-ကစေံ2.wav|50px|noicon]] Audio speak
::*Translate=Bird
::The vocabulary ကစေံ has up to seven pronunciations, there is also a different pronunciation of Thai Mon, Mon Te, Mon Korean, Mon Tang, Mon Nya, Mon Pali. The Mon language is not modern, but the Mon literature is very advanced, there are many secrets in Mon literature that not everyone knows, in the 2nd century AD, Mon literary scholars included many secrets in the Mon vocabulary to protect Mon literature, these secrets of Mon vocabulary are understood only by Mon scholars, thanks.--[[User:咽頭べさ|咽頭べさ]] ([[User talk:咽頭べさ#top|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 13:25, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
:::Ok, so they are homographs (same writing) but not homophone (not same pronunciation), aka [[:en:Heteronym_(linguistics)#Examples|Heteronym]].
:::For you Mon words, what is the difference between each ?
:::By example, in French, the following are homographs non homophones, the par between brackets is not read aloud in LinguaLibre :
:::* <code>excellent (v)</code>, pronounced `excel`
:::* <code>excellent (adj)</code>, pronounced `excellant`
:::In other language the same word can be pronounced differently if read by a man or woman, in that case we may record :
:::* <code>vert (masculin)</code>, pronounced `ver`
:::* <code>vert (féminin)</code>, pronounced `verte`
:::We can also differentiate by using a synonym :
:::* <code>crooked (injured)</code>, pronounced `crookaid`
:::* <code>crooked (corrupt)</code>, pronounced `crookt`
:::For Mon language, from my understanding, you should have things such as <code>ကစေံ</code> for today's standard Mon language.
:::Then <code>ကစေံ (Thai)</code>, <code>ကစေံ (Te)</code>, <code>ကစေံ (Korean)</code>, <code>ကစေံ (Tang)</code>, <code>ကစေံ (Pali)</code>, <code>ကစေံ (read)</code>, <code>ကစေံ (speak)</code>.
:::But you have to edit the pages List:mnw/* BEFORE recording those items, and you have to keep concistent. [[User:Yug|Yug]] [[User talk:Yug|<small><font style="color:green;">(talk)</font></small>]] 14:34, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
:::咽頭べさ, given you want to create a clean dictionary for Mon language, I encourage you to take it as a middle term project and first clarify those issue on [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room]] or on Discord's #main. [[User:Yug|Yug]] [[User talk:Yug|<small><font style="color:green;">(talk)</font></small>]] 15:17, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
::::I noticed your first recordings, you can do better by following [[Help:Homographs]] and using <code># ကစေံ (Te)</code> which is more solid than <code># ကစေံ/Mon Te</code>, since:
::::* filenames recorded via Lili contains <code>(mnw)</code> which defining the Mon language, so you do not have to add `Mon` in the homograph.
::::* the sign <code>/</code> can cause bugs in later usages. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:58, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
:::thank you very much, I will try my best to be the best.--[[User:咽頭べさ|咽頭べさ]] ([[User talk:咽頭べさ|talk]]) 20:52, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
:{{GT|Hello 咽頭べさ, I see you are getting close. Using lower case for <code> (read)</code>, <code> (speak)</code> is better, yes !}}
:Remember to add '''a space''' between the word and the <code>(</code>. Without space [[Q746324#P7|the transcription data is incorrect]] :(.
:<s>ခၟာဲစာၚ်ၜိုဟ်(read)</s> → <code style="color:green;">ခၟာဲစာၚ်ၜိုဟ် (read)</code> 👍🏽.
:You are on the right track 👏🏽 🧙🏽‍♂️ 🎉  [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:32, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
::Thanks, I will do my best, if you do not see 100% Mon characters on your computer, you can use the new Unicode font or [https://en.m.fontke.com/font/42931113/download/ MUA Office], I would like to inform you that if you use an old Unicode font on your computer, you will not be able to see 100% Mon characters.--[[User:咽頭べさ|咽頭べさ]] ([[User talk:咽頭べさ|talk]]) 21:38, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
:::I see them all thanks to unicode. All good on this side :D [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:43, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

== Local lists (faster) ==
{{GT|Hello 咽頭べさ, did you try to load the "Local list" in step 3 ? It would help you a lot.}}
<br>Following your informations I created 3 local lists:
* [[List:mnw/Wiktionary]] (~1900 from [[:wikt:mnw:ဝိက်ရှေန်နရဳ:သ္ဍံၚ်/က]]) → I advise you to do ~300 or 20mins per day. 6x20mins.
* [[List:mnw/Commons]] (~370) → clean up and change suffixes, click ''"Remove words already recorded"'', then <10mins
* [[List:mnw/Unilex]] (~3000 but a part of noise) → clean up, click ''"Remove words already recorded"'' then 3x20mins
You can edit those wiki pages to add the <code>* (speak)</code>, <code>* (read)</code>, <code>* (Tang)</code>, … suffixes where needed.

Then in [[Special:RecordWizard]], step 3:
# Set "You record words in:" to "Mon"
# '''Click on "Local list", search for or click on "mnw/Wiktionary".'''
# Click on "Remove words already recorded"
# Go to step 4 to record.

Ping me if you need help, I'm happy to help to let Mon be better known around :D [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:50, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

== Word needs a white space " " before <code>(</code> ==
:I fixed this audio ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q746337&type=revision&diff=729297&oldid=728913 the fix]) to follow LinguaLibre's rules.
:You don't have to edit this yourself.
:The correct way :
:1) <code style="color:green;">ခၟာဲစာၚ်ၜိုဟ် (read)</code>, '''a white space''' between <code style="color:green;">ခၟာဲစာၚ်ၜိုဟ်</code> and <code style="color:green;">(read)</code> is needed.
:2) <code>transcription = ခၟာဲစာၚ်ၜိုဟ်</code> is correct.   (Transcription is "how you write this word". It is ''not'' a translation field).
:3) <code>qualifier = read</code> is correct.
:When you record a word, if there is a white space between after the word (ex: <code style="color:green;">ခၟာဲစာၚ်ၜိုဟ်</code>) and before the qualifier (ex:<code style="color:green;">(read)</code>), then the software split them for you. The software works for you. Just add a space (ex: <code style="color:green;">ခၟာဲစာၚ်ၜိုဟ် (read)</code>) and it's automatic. :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:25, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

== Mentoring ==
Hello 咽頭べさ,<br>
Please pause for 1~3 days. See Commons. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:09, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
::Okay sir.--[[User:咽頭べさ|Music writer Dr.Intobesa of Japanese idol NMB48 and BNK48.]] ([[User talk:咽頭べさ|talk]]) 16:18, 21 January 2022 (UTC)


==Lingua Libre==
[[File:The Lingua Libre issue.png]]
Hello {{ping|Yug}}, Unable to log in to Lingua Libre, Please check, thanks.--[[User:咽頭べさ|Music writer Dr.Intobesa of Japanese idol NMB48 and BNK48.]] ([[User talk:咽頭べさ|talk]]) 13:02, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

==Add  Pa'O language==
Hello {{ping|Yug|WikiLucas00}}, I would like to make a request for add [https://blk.wikipedia.org/wiki/အဓိကလိတ်မဲ့ငါ Pa'O (blk) language], Thanks.--<span style="background-color: magenta; padding: 2px 5px 1px 5px">[[User:咽頭べさ|<span style="color: white">𝓓𝓻.𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓸𝓫𝓮𝓼𝓪</span>]]|[[User talk:咽頭べさ|𝒯𝒶𝓁𝓀]]</span> 09:09, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} I tried to import <code>Q7121294</code>, but I was unsuccessful. The console log prints : <code>Uncaught TypeError: errors[i].isRecoverable is not a function</code>. Firefox + Ubuntu. Can you try as well and report outcome here ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
::{{ping|Yug}} Indeed I have the same error... Maybe {{ping|Poslovitch}} has an idea on the matter? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:38, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
:::We can also create that language by hand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 00:35, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Yug}} This is a good short term solution to unblock 咽頭べさ, but if the language Importer tool is broken we need to report the problem to tech team. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 12:28, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

==Add  Pa'O language and Tai Ahom language==
I requested to add the Pa'O language once before, but it still doesn't work, Please complete these tasks as soon as possible, but delaying such a task for more than a year is disrespectful to the person who requested to add the language. Now I still want to request to add Tai Ahom language, but may I know how many years I have to wait for this request? (see [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Tai_Ahom_pronunciation Tai Ahom pronunciation] and [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Pa%27O_pronunciation Pa'O pronunciation]) Please help in this matter as soon as possible, thanks.--<span style="background-color: magenta; padding: 2px 5px 1px 5px">[[User:咽頭べさ|<span style="color: white">𝓓𝓻.𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓸𝓫𝓮𝓼𝓪</span>]]|[[User talk:咽頭べさ|𝒯𝒶𝓁𝓀]]</span> 19:06, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
:Hi, I am discovering your request just now. I have created {{Q|1033277}} and {{Q|1033278}} so you should be able to record in these languages now. Tell me if you need something else and sorry for the delay. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:02, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
::Thank you very much for your help, what I would like to request is that there is a problem with Lingua Libre Font error, so I would like you to solve it, thanks.--<span style="background-color: magenta; padding: 2px 5px 1px 5px">[[User:咽頭べさ|<span style="color: white">𝓓𝓻.𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓸𝓫𝓮𝓼𝓪</span>]]|[[User talk:咽頭べさ|𝒯𝒶𝓁𝓀]]</span> 11:05, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
:::Could you describe what the font problem is exactly by providing a screenshot or a link for  example. If you know a free-licenced font for the Pa'O scripting that we could use, please do not hesitate to give the name of this font. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:05, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
::Right of translation=Lingua Libre Main Page doesn't have Pa'O translation yet, please add it to the list, thanks.--<span style="background-color: magenta; padding: 2px 5px 1px 5px">[[User:咽頭べさ|<span style="color: white">𝓓𝓻.𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓸𝓫𝓮𝓼𝓪</span>]]|[[User talk:咽頭べさ|𝒯𝒶𝓁𝓀]]</span> 11:44, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
::: I cannot do the translation by myself but you can do it by clicking on [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Translate&group=page-LinguaLibre%3AMain+Page%2Ftext&action=page&filter=&language=blk this link]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:05, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Okay check out these two image files, thanks.--<span style="background-color: magenta; padding: 2px 5px 1px 5px">[[User:咽頭べさ|<span style="color: white">𝓓𝓻.𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓸𝓫𝓮𝓼𝓪</span>]]|[[User talk:咽頭べさ|𝒯𝒶𝓁𝓀]]</span> 14:36, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
[[File:Lingua Libre issue reference.jpg|thumb|]]
[[File:Lingua Libre issue reference 2.jpg|thumb|]]
Ok, so to be sure to understand correctly
: on the first screenshot, you wrote that there is a font error, but I am not sure about what Mon text you are talking about. Could you circle it on your screenshot. Sorry, if this appears as naive but I do not know how to read this script so something that may appear obvious for you is not for me.
:::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Okay Check out [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lingua_Libre_issue_reference.webm my comparison video] in detail.--<span style="background-color: magenta; padding: 2px 5px 1px 5px">[[User:咽頭べさ|<span style="color: white">𝓓𝓻.𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓸𝓫𝓮𝓼𝓪</span>]]|[[User talk:咽頭べさ|𝒯𝒶𝓁𝓀]]</span> 15:26, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
:::: Thank you very much. The problem is very clear now. I have opened a [[phab:T343732|ticket on Phabricator]] for this issue. Do you know a font that do not have this problem? If so, you can add it in the Phabricator ticket. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:43, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, but since I started using Lingua Libre, I haven't had any font error issues. now I can't understand why Lingua Libre has font error problem.--<span style="background-color: magenta; padding: 2px 5px 1px 5px">[[User:咽頭べさ|<span style="color: white">𝓓𝓻.𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓸𝓫𝓮𝓼𝓪</span>]]|[[User talk:咽頭べさ|𝒯𝒶𝓁𝓀]]</span> 15:55, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
: for the second screenshot, it seems that the Pa'O language is not "installed" here, i.e. it is not possible to translate into this language, right?
[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:45, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
::Yes, it cannot be translated at all because it lacks that language to translate.--<span style="background-color: magenta; padding: 2px 5px 1px 5px">[[User:咽頭べさ|<span style="color: white">𝓓𝓻.𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓸𝓫𝓮𝓼𝓪</span>]]|[[User talk:咽頭べさ|𝒯𝒶𝓁𝓀]]</span> 15:26, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
:::Ok, thanks for the confirmation. I have let a message on [[phab:T295250#9074136|Phabricator]]. I hope the Pa'O language will be available before the end of the year. Yet, I cannot do anything from my side. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:44, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

==Lingua Libre error==
Hello {{ping|Yug|WikiLucas00|Pamputt}}, I haven't been able to record on Lingua Libre for over a month, I also don't understand what the problems are with Lingua Libre, but check out [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lingua_Libre_error_2024.webm this video] about the problem I encountered with Lingua Libre, I am asking you to check some issues with Lingua Libre, thanks.--<span style="background-color: magenta; padding: 2px 5px 1px 5px">[[User:咽頭べさ|<span style="color: white">𝓓𝓻.𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓸𝓫𝓮𝓼𝓪</span>]]|[[User talk:咽頭べさ|𝒯𝒶𝓁𝓀]]</span> 10:47, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
:Thank you 咽頭べさ,
:This is a serious bug indeed. We are investigating it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:30, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
::okay thank you so much, but now it can be used normally.--<span style="background-color: magenta; padding: 2px 5px 1px 5px">[[User:咽頭べさ|<span style="color: white">𝓓𝓻.𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓸𝓫𝓮𝓼𝓪</span>]]|[[User talk:咽頭べさ|𝒯𝒶𝓁𝓀]]</span> 15:23, 16 May 2024 (UTC)