LinguaLibre

Difference between revisions of "Chat room"

Welcome to the Chat room! Place used to discuss any and all aspects of Lingua Libre: the project itself, discussions of the operations, policy and proposals, technical issues, etc. Other forums include for code-oriented issues, . Feel free to participate in any language you want to.

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* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''
 
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''
** After reviewing the section, add `<nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki>` to the top of the section. After some days to 2 weeks, move the sectin's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].
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** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].
  
 
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''
 
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''
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* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''
 
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''
** Paris's [[LinguaLibre:Events/Hackathon_15-16_décembre_2018|Events/Hackathon_15-16_décembre_2018]] just finished. More events to come. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].
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** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].
  
 
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''
 
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''
 
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].
 
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].
  
== Utiliser le Lingua Libre Bot dans l'incubator:shy ==
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== Custom Commons filename ==
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:{{Done}}
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Sorry if this is obvious.
  
Est-ce que c'est possible de faire la même chose pour le wiktionnaire en Chaoui ? je veux dir est-il il possible d'utiliser votre bot sur notre wiktionnaire aussi ? je peux donner l'algorithme du [https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wt/shy wiki-test]. Cordialement. -[[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 12:32, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
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How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?
:Oui bien sur ! Avez-vous un bistro / village pump / ... pour en discuter là-bas ? — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:24, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 
::Oui il y a un bistro vierge du [https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wt/shy/Asebtar_amenzu wiktionnaire Chaoui] que vous pouvez activer. Ou bien celui de [https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incubator:Community_Portal l'incubator] où en peut discuter avec des administrateurs à propos de l'autorisation du bot. Cordialement. -[[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 18:26, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 
:::Je suis en ce moment en chemin pour Wikimania, je vais n'avoir que très peu de temps jusque là, mais je lancerais la discussion à mon retour. Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:43, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 
:::: Bon voyage.--[[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 21:48, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 
[[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] J'espère que vous m'avez pas oublié =) Car en septembre on lance un concours pour le wiktionnaire en Chaoui, et si on peut enregistrer des mots qui vont passer directement sur incubateur, je fais la promo de Lingualibre en même temps que la promo du concours.--[[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 14:01, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:[[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]], [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']],  Is this {done} ? --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:04, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 
::Bots-related documentation could be gathered in [[Help:Bots]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:01, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== Liste sur le modèle de Petscan ==
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For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Salut, est ce qu'il serait possible de faire une liste à la volée sur le modèle de ce qu'est capable de faire Petscan ? [https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?language=fr&project=wiktionary&categories=Lemmes%20en%20fran%C3%A7ais&negcats=Prononciations%20audio%20en%20fran%C3%A7ais&ns%5B0%5D=1&search_max_results=500&interface_language=fr&&doit= Ici], on a la liste de tous les lemmes du Wiktionnaire qui n'ont pas de catégorie « Prononciations audio en français » ce qui signifie qu'il n'ont pas le modèle « écouter » qui permet d'ajouter les entrées dans cette catégorie. Je trouve que la génération d'une telle liste serait vraiment sympa pour les Wiktionnaires. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:07, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
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:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
:L'idée est bonne en effet, cependant ça représente un gros boulot à intégrer sur Lingua Libre. Je pense qu'il serait intéressant d'en discuter un peu et d'établir un petit cahier des charges de ce que l'on veut pouvoir faire (tout dans petscan n'est pas utile ici). — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 22:00, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
 
::[[User:0x010C|0x010C]], est ce que tu penses que l'exemple que j'ai donné ci-dessus (lemmes en français qui n'ont pas de prononciation) peut être implémenté à partir de [[MediaWiki:Gadget-Demo.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:23, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 
:::Oui c'est exactement ça, il faut passer par la création d'un nouveau générateur de mots. Dans mon début de réflexion plus haut, je réfléchissais à comment implémenter les fonctionnalités de petscan dans un générateur. Sauf que niveau performance et rapidité, on pourrait jamais faire quelque chose d'utilisateur avec des catégories aussi grosse que "Lemmes en français", je m'explique. Petscan fait son travail de recherche et de recoupement côté serveur, directement sur une copie de la base de donnée des wikis (il peut ainsi en un coup explorer tous les enregistrements). Or ici, nous n'avons pas d'accès à la base de donnée et les calculs doivent être fait côté client, en javascript. On dépend donc de l'API des wikis en question pour récupérer les données, API qui n'est pas du tout faite pour travailler sur des catégories très grosses (ne peut retourner que 500 membres par requête, etc).
 
::: Bref, c'est pas possible. Cependant, on peut imaginer se reposer sur petscan pour faire le boulot chiant à notre place (ce générateur deviendrait complètement dépendant de cet outil externe, une panne de ce dernier bloquerait le fonctionnement du premier). Je vois trois options :
 
:::# le générateur reprend un certain nombre de champs de petscan, et va à partir des valeurs fournies générer une requête à petscan (complexe pour l'utilisateur lambda, flexible pour l'utilisateur expérimenté) ;
 
:::# le générateur propose à l'utilisateur de choisir parmi un certain nombre de requêtes petscan préparé à l'avance par nos soins (par exemple en cliquant sur "mots en français n'ayant pas de prononciation sur le wiktionnaire francophone", ta requête exposé plus haut serait utilisé), ou de coller l'URL / l'identifiant d'une requête qu'il a préparé / trouvé (plus simple à implémenter, nous oblige à créer pleins de requêtes pour supporter différentes langues, assez flexible) ;
 
:::# on fait un générateur spécialisé "mots dont la prononciation est manquante" où il va automatiquement forger la requête petscan pour faire comme dans ton exemple pour la langue sélectionnée (facile d'utilisation, très spécifique mais potentiellement très utile, nous obligerait à renseigner manuellement les catégories wiktionnaire correspondante car je ne vois aucun moyen de deviner le nom de la catégorie d'une langue à partir de son code ou son id wikidata...)
 
:::Qu'en penses-tu ?
 
:::— [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 02:53, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
 
::::La première proposition me semble trop usine à gaz et bien que puissante, je ne pense pas qu'elle s'adresse au public de Lingua Libre.Entre les propositions 2 et 3, j'ai une préférence pour la 2 car elle est simple d'utilisation au premier abord (on utilise des requêtes pré-forgées) tout en permettant une utilisation avancée (avantage de la solution 1). Et par rapport à la solution 3, ça évite de la maintenance pour déterminer la langue d'une catégorie donc c'est plus maintenable sur le long terme à mon avis. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 
:::::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]]: Entre deux avions, je viens de finir une première version du générateur petscan, activable via [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|préférences > gadgets]]. Est-ce que tu peux y jetter un œil et me dire ce que tu en penses avant que je continue et que je l'annonce plus largement ?
 
:::::Merci — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:39, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 
::::::[[User:0x010C|0x010C]], j'ai activé le gadget et je vois bien PetScan dans la liste. J'ai fait quelques essais et ça fonctionne bien. J'ai essayé avec l'URL du premier message et ça fonctionne nickel. En revanche, j'ai essayé avec [https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?language=fr&project=wiktionary&categories=Adjectifs%20en%20fran%C3%A7ais&negcats=Prononciations%20audio%20en%20fran%C3%A7ais&ns%5B0%5D=1&search_max_results=500&interface_language=en&active_tab= ça] et ça m'indique "Petscan output something weired with this URL, check it and come back afterwards.". En revanche si j'ajoute le « &doit= » à la fin, ça fonctionne correctement (est-il vraiment nécessaire) ?
 
::::::Autre point, cest-ce qu'il est déjà possible de préparer des requêtes pré-faites (« mots en français n'ayant pas de prononciation sur le wiktionnaire francophone », ...) ou pas encore ? En l'état c'est déjà super cool. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:04, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 
:::::::J'avais oublié que cetaines URL pouvaient ne pas avoir l'auto-run, c'est fix. Je réfléchis actuellement à la meilleur façon de faire en fait. Ma problématique, c'est qu'une requête comme « mots en français n'ayant pas de prononciation sur le wiktionnaire francophone » n'intéressera que ceux qui font des enregitrements en français, si un germanophone dois scroller 25 requêtes qui le concerne pas (et qu'il ne comprend surement pas) avant d'en trouver une en allemand, c'est pas cool pour lui.
 
:::::::De là, trois idées qui me viennent en écrivant ces lignes :
 
:::::::* Une page par langue, dans l'espace de nom list ([[List:fra]] ? [[List:fra-external]] ? [[List:fra-examples]] ? ...) qui regroupe via une liste à puce toutes les urls dispo pour une langue ;
 
:::::::* Une fois ce travail fait, ce n'est pas très compliqué de supporter d'autres outils externes qui peuvent être appelé via une URL et renvoyer le résultat en JSON ; je pense notamment à querry.wikidata.org ;
 
:::::::* Et là, plus une réflexion, est-ce que ça serait pertinent une fois que ça sera stable de l'intégrer au générateur "listes" actuel (genre avoir deux onglets dedans, "listes statique", "listes dynamiques/externes/..." ?), ou l'intégrer comme un nouveau générateur à part entière dans le core du RecordWizard ? (et du coup comment le nommer dans ce cas ?)
 
:::::::Un avis externe me serait bien utile pour trancher tout cela :) — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 19:52, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== Variations géographiques ==
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::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
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::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
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::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
  
Bonjour,
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== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==
  
Bravo pour ce projet très intéressant.
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Dear all,
  
Je me pose une question à propos des prononciations. Je suis du sud de la France et contrairement à une bonne partie du reste de la France, nous usons beaucoup de l'accent tonique (influence italienne et espagnole, j'imagine). Du coup, la prononciation de certains mots, et surtout des locutions, ont une rythmique différente par chez moi.
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I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.
  
Comment gérer ces variations de prononciation ? Ont-elles droit de cité ou comme les québécois doit-on privilégier un "Français international" neutre ?
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For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre
  
Pour finir sur le sujet, la prononciation de certains mots sont différentes chez nous : lait, mas, moins (avec un s !), etc. Comment intégrer ça dans Wiktionnaire ou Wikipédia ?
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Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :
  
[[User:Jpgibert|Jpgibert]] ([[User talk:Jpgibert|talk]]) 12:02, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
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:Bonjour,
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- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.
:Merci pour ton intérêt !
 
:Non, il ne faut surtout pas privilégier un français "''neutre''". Chaque variation / accent locale est intéressent. En fait, juste avant de commencer à enregistrer il t'es demandé de remplir ton profil de locuteur, dans lequel tu peux renseigner ton lieu d'habitation / d'apprentissage d'une langue.
 
:Lorsqu'un enregistrement est ajouté ensuite sur le Wiktionnaire par exemple, cette information y est inclu. Si plusieurs personnes ont enregistré les même mots, on pourra donc écouter les différences de prononciation de « lait » en Alsace, au Québec, en Occitanie, en Île de France, au Mali,... Et ça c'est cool :)
 
:Cela répond à tes questions ?
 
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 21:55, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
 
  
::Bonjour [[User:0x010C]]
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::Merci pour la réponse. Je m'inquiétais de la chose parce que s'il existe un code linguistique pour les variations du français au Québec (fr-CA) ou de Belgique (fr-BE), en revanche l'accent n'est pas pris en compte.
 
::Content d'apprendre que malgré mon accent, je serai le bienvenu. Bon pour le moment, faut que j'achète un bon micro avant de faire quoi que ce soit, mais dès que j'aurai ça, je tenterai de partager mon accent méridional.
 
::[[User:Jpgibert|Jpgibert]] ([[User talk:Jpgibert|talk]]) 12:31, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 
  
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- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :
  
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1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website
  
== Thésaurus ==
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2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians
  
Bonjour,
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3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently
  
Durant la vidéo de présentation du projet par [[user:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p_z3jyihwU LetsContribute6]), j'ai appris qu'on pouvait générer des listes de mots à partir de catégories. Serait-il possible de faire le même genre de chose à partir d'un thésaurus ? Question subsidiaire, est-ce que ça à un intérêt ?
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4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible
  
[[User:Jpgibert|Jpgibert]] ([[User talk:Jpgibert|talk]]) 12:39, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
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:Ca pourrait effectivement être intéressant même si c'est plus compliqué à coder (j'imagine). Juste pour donner un exemple pour ceux qui ne voient pas ce dont il est question, on peut aller voir [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Th%C3%A9saurus:pain/fran%C3%A7ais ici]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:30, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 
:: {{ping|Jpgibert}} Le plus simple pour faire ça, c'est de copier-coller le contenu du thésaurus et de séparer les mots avec un #. Ça doit demander quelques minutes pour être mis en forme, mais ce n'est pas non plus le Pérou. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:22, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== General issues + issues with Odia and Asian writing systems ==
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For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.
:{{Done}}, all issue tracked on phabricator or explained below. Ready to archive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:22, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
 
I loved the current version! Truly admire the changes you all have made over time.
 
I have also done a few recordings in my own language Odia to check for any error. Below are a few:
 
  
# '''Tag already recorded items ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212580 T212580]):''' When a word has already been recorded and has been uploaded on Commons, does is not make sense to show it as a flag instead of letting any user to upload it directly?
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In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.
# '''Add custom commons categories ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T201135 T201135]):''' Also, different languages have different additional categories which Lingua Libre does not let one to add. For instance, I generally add a user category to know how many audio files I have uploaded. For the files recorded using Lingua Libre, I don't see an option to add that optional category.
 
# '''Remove duplicated words (in same session: explanation below ; across time: [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212580 T212580]):''' If I am adding a wordlist before recording, is that possible to keep only one word if the same word is used multiple times? This would save some time for the uploader.
 
# '''Monitor suspect cracking sound in audios ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T201136 T201136]):''' There is a bit of crackling sound that is heard while monitoring the recorded words. Any particular reason?
 
# '''Some words fails anyway ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212584 T212584]):''' Even though I am correctly pronouncing every word, I see a lot of red-labelled words.
 
# '''Allow click-play-listen while recording ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212583 T212583]):''' While recording, I cannot check how the recording sounds like. I can only choose to re-record after hearing the recorded sound. Otherwise even having that option is of no use.
 
# '''Remove underline ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/c48d2e6f6cb31acef8a39245bab1eccc5dbdb969 done]):''' While recording each word is seen as a green button and during the recording the word is underlined. This works well for Latin-based scripts. However for my script, Odia, and even many other Asian languages, this is a problem as we have diacritics and accent marks below the character. It becomes too hard at times to read when underlined. Also, the light green color and a white background is not accessible to people with corrections or color blindness. Maybe black background with white text will create more contrast and make it easier to read.
 
# '''Last word cannot be re-recorded (explanation below):''' When you reach the last word of a batch and want to re-record that word, it doesn't allow you to click on the word button and re-record.
 
  
Also, requesting to add the Warang Citi (used for Ho language) and Ol Chiki (used for Santali language).
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Thank you much again. I would really love to contribute more myself, and involve other community members. --[[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:21, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
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Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6
:Hi!
 
:First of all, thanks for your feedbacks, that's really helpful. Here are some details about your remarks:
 
:# In my opinion, it is interesting to have several records of the same word by different users, the naming convention takes this into account to avoid records to be overridden by another user. But as I'm not sure I understood this point very well, don't hesitate to clarify it if my answer is mistaken.
 
:# [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T201135 T201135]
 
:# If I have correctly understood your point, that's already the case. You can't add duplicate words in the same record batch (if you try to do so, the second one will be dismissed).
 
:# It's just a small file-loading issue, it will be fixed soon, see [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T201136 T201136]
 
:# This is a major issue I'm already aware of. In some cases (~ 1 word out of 100), for some unknown reason, MediaWiki is mistaken in taking WAV files for executable files, so it refuses them...
 
:# I'll try to add a way to listen the records while still in the recording studio.
 
:# I wasn't aware of that particularities, I'll remove the underline. I'm not so fond of the white text on black, but I'll try to find something more accessible.
 
:# Hum, this works well with me. When you have recorded the last word, the record automatically cuts off, did you click on the big red button to enable it again?
 
:I've imported the Ho language, which was missing from Lingua Libre, but the two writing system you've mentionned are part of Unicode and should works, am I wrong?
 
:Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:37, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 
::+1 for point 7, the underline is also troublesome for Chinese. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:08, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
 
::Hi! Continuing the cleaning effort and tracking of issues, also to stay short and concise, I [https://lingualibre.fr/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=next&oldid=63662 enhanced the initial post] with title and status (phabricator issue). Sorry for that, just cleaner. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:33, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 
:::Note: I pointed out to Psubhashish the work on his former feedbacks. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Psubhashish&oldid=875780271 positive discussion on EN]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:45, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== Première utilisation : quelques questionnements ==
+
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i
  
Bonjour !
+
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up
  
Tout d'abord, merci beaucoup pour ce super outil !
+
  
J'ai remarqué quelques difficultés à l'usage. Peut-être que c'est juste parce que je suis nouvelle et pas au courant de toutes les options, mais voilà ma liste :
+
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...
  
# Sur une liste de 20 mots, il faut généralement que je reprenne l'enregistrement manuellement trois ou quatre fois parce que l'outil décide soudain de ne plus enregistrer. Quand je sélectionne un mot, même en cliquant sur le gros bouton rouge, il y a à peu près une chance pour deux pour que l'enregistrement se lance.
+
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).
# Mes mots sont très souvent coupés au début et à la fin (pour les noms propres en deux ou trois mots surtout) : peut-être qu'il serait pertinent d'avoir un petit bouton "next" pour marquer manuellement les fins de mots ? Sur 20 mots enregistrés, entre ceux que l'outil n'a pas envie de me laisser enregistrer (cf #1) et ceux qui sont coupés, m'en reste peu. Sur 3 listes d'une vingtaine de noms, j'en ai eu 2, 5 et 7 exploitables.
 
# Sur une page d'enregistrement comme [[Q44570]], le lien vers la page Wikipédia met un + au lieu d'un _ entre les mots donc on arrive sur un lien rouge dans Wikipédia.
 
  
Si ça peut servir, je suis sur la dernière version en date de Firefox au 10/10/18 & Windows 10.
+
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)
  
Pour le reste : c'est vraiment super, bravo pour tout ce travail ! Je vais continuer à faire joujou avec l'outil jusqu'à être bien familière avec.
+
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada
  
[[User:Exilexi|Exilexi]] ([[User talk:Exilexi|talk]]) 06:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
+
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==
:Les problèmes 1 et 2 sont en fait quasiment réglés avec un meilleur micro. Lingua Libre demande la permission pour un micro qui n'est pas mon micro par défaut, pour une raison inconnue.
 
:Nouveau souci avec l'upload : tous les mots sauf 1 sont bien téléversés. Le bouton Commons s'affiche en grisé et rien ne se passe si je clique sur la petite croix à côté d'un mot : apparemment, c'est tout ou rien pour mettre sur Commons, donc je viens de perdre 29 mots parce qu'un seul refusait de s'uploader. [[User:Exilexi|Exilexi]] ([[User talk:Exilexi|talk]]) 06:44, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
 
:: J'en ajoute un : j'avais enregistré 20 mots "autour de moi". Là, je viens d'en lancer 20 autres... et c'est les mêmes. Il pourrait être intéressant d'ajouter une option pour éviter d'enregistrer plusieurs fois la même chose (mon accent ne change pas d'un jour à l'autre). [[User:Exilexi|Exilexi]] ([[User talk:Exilexi|talk]]) 05:36, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
 
  
Salut [[User:Exilexi|Exilexi]], quelques remarques ou éléments de réponse à tes commentaires
+
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,
# Lorsque tu décris que l'outil stoppe l'enregistrement, je pense que le problème vient de la qualité du micro. C'est ce que tu sembles avoir conclu également.
+
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.
# Lingua Libre découpe les mots automatiquement dès qu'il détecte un blanc. Pour les noms à rallonge, on pourrait envisager d'ajouter un bouton pour passer manuellement au mot suivant. Cela étant dit, ça perd un peu de l'intérêt de l'outil car ça devient beaucoup plus lent.
+
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/
# concernant le lien vers Wikipédia (avec un « + »), ça semble en effet un bogue. J'ai ouvert un [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T206801 ticket sur Phabricator].
+
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.
# pour les problèmes d'upload, quand un téléversement échoue, un [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198014 ticket] existe déjà sur ce sujet.
+
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
# pour les listes de mots, il est possible d'en créer soi-même. Il en existe déjà plusieurs en français (quelques dizaines) et moins dans les autres langues. Il est expliquer [[Help:Create_your_own_lists/fr|ici]] sur la façon de procéder. Si tu as besoin d'aide, fais-nous signe. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 20:13, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== Formosan languages workshop ==
+
== Record Wizard translation ==
Hi there, I had an email exchange with Vicky, the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Chengchi_University NCCU] language researcher involved in Formosan languages protection. Some of her questions are [https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Toy_Story#Buzz_Lightyear beyond] my skills :
+
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
  
1. I couldn't find ais(Sakizaya), ami(Amis), trv(Truku) in the language list. Please add, thanks!
+
== Premier essai ==
2. Can I add the dialect information in the speaker file?
 
Because there are 42 dialects under 16 aboriginal languages, I had record Squliq dialect not C’uli’ dialect of Atayal language today.
 
3. I had add the Chinese translation after the aboriginal languages, is that ok for lingua libre?
 
Or I only can type in aboriginal languages?
 
  
I broke the questions in several subsections so a quick discussion may occurs for each. Please take notes that Vicky workshop is coming this week, so it would be cool to forward her practical solutions early.
+
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:38, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 
  
=== 1) Requesting languages additions ===
+
Les innévitables questions :
* Amis_language (iso: ami; wikidata: [[wikidata:Q35132|Q35132]]).
+
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?
* Sakizaya has no iso639, from my understanding. Sakizaya_language (iso: none, wikidata: [[wikidata:Q718269|Q718269]]), Nataoran_language (iso: ais, wikidata: [[wikidata:Q42508148|Q42508148]]).
+
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?
* Truku (no iso no wikidata) : is described in Wikipedia as the main component of Seediq language (iso: trv, wikidata: [[wikidata:Q716686|Q716686]]), already in LinguaLibre. Taiwanese linguist, the most experienced in the matter, are making a distinction.
+
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?
If I understand well, LL only requires wikidata ID. If so, I would recommend to add [[wikidata:Q35132|Q35132]] (amis), [[wikidata:Q718269|Q718269]] (Sakizaya). [[wikidata:Q42508148|Q42508148]] (Nataorans) and [[wikidata:Q716686|Q716686]] (Seediq) are already in I think. Truku may require a wikidata item creation, then integration in LL.
 
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:38, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 
:The four languages have been imported here: [[Q51311]] Seediq, [[Q51870]] Amis, [[Q51871]] Sakizaya and [[Q51872]] Nataoran and can be used for recording. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 04:15, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 
  
=== 2) "There are 42 dialects under 16 aboriginal languages". ===
+
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
We previously added 15 or 16 of these recognized languages into LinguaLibre (thanks x0 and Pamputt). Again, Taiwanese linguists are the experts on the matter, so what can we (LL) recommend for these 42 variants ? Two ideas came to me.
+
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions
# Add the information in he speaker name or place of learning. By example for : Paul Martin (Breton north) ; Paul Martin (Breton south).
+
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?
# Add the Wikidata items following Taiwanese linguists recommendations, while no wikipedia articles nor iso639 exists.
+
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].
What do you think ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:38, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
+
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?
: As far as I uundertand, if no Wikidata item exists for a given language, we have two options: create it on Wikidata (whether it is notable) and import here after or create it by hand directly here. So for dialect, I would say they are enough notable to be created on Wikidata but I have no time to do it by myself before the end of the year (I have no regular Internet connection for now). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 04:18, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
+
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].
::In fact, the second option mentionned above by Pamputt won't work. For a language to be recognised by the RecordWizard, it has to have a wikidata ID. The right way to do it imho is (as also suggested by Pamputt) to create the corresponding item on wikidata, and then ask for an import here. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:46, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
+
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?
 +
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.
 +
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Bonjour,
 +
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.
 +
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
  
=== 3) "Is it ok to use <code>mhway su (谢谢)</code> ?" (target word + translation) ===
+
== Compilation de textes ==
* '''Technically''', both aboriginal languages and Chinese, de factor the target word together with its closest macro-language's translation, here, Chinese.
+
:{{done}}
* Keep extremely '''consistent''' in your practice, so to ease later usages (learning apps). If the rule is
+
Bonjour,
<span style="color:green;">{aboriginal}{white_space}{opening_round_braket_(}{Chinese}{closing_round_braket_)}</span>
 
stick to it, and avoid round brackets in other places of your element. Early consistency makes later usages easier.
 
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:38, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 
:@x0, devs, there again we have the questions of wordlists with translations. I previously suggested that [[Help:Create_your_own_lists|words lists]] support a iso639 syntaxe or wikidata id syntax so to push the translation into a different metadata field. Example of list :
 
: mhway su [cmn:谢谢,eng:Thank]
 
:Then "mhway su" is the target recorded word. "谢谢" is the translation in the meta data "cmn" (Chinese). "Thank" is the translation in the meta data "eng" (English). I guess I should open a ticket on Phabricator. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 
::Multi-lingual wordlist --wordlist including the translation of target words-- are not supported at the moment. An issue have been opened on LinguaLibre developments and bugs tracking system ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T211086 T211086]). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:29, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== Thésaurus (2) ==
+
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?
J'ai [https://lingualibre.fr/index.php?title=LinguaLibre%3AChat_room&type=revision&diff=62426&oldid=62425 archivé] le coeur de la discussion de Benoit & 0x010C, mais cet autre sujet mérite une section:
 
:"Rien à voir. Je pensais qu'un petit outil de génération de liste depuis un thésaurus fr.wikt ce serait top. Au lieu de choisir une catégorie d'un wikiprojet, on choisirait un thésaurus. Une idée comme ça.  --[[User:Benoît Prieur|Benoît]] 21:36, 20 December 2018 (UTC)"
 
--[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:41, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 
:J'ai fait ce modeste outil externe qui génère la liste des mots d'un thésaurus, à coller dans l'interface de LL. https://thesauruslingua.herokuapp.com/
 
:[[User:Benoît Prieur|Benoît Prieur]] ([[User talk:Benoît Prieur|talk]]) 00:32, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== Feature request: ask to reuse existing identical audio if available ==
+
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).
:{{Done}}, can be archived. 12:08, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
+
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
I waste a lot of time because Lingua Libre Bot has to have new audio for every lexeme forms. For example this audio https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q809_(pol)-KaMan-Bizancjum.wav I had to record 10 times (https://lingualibre.fr/index.php?title=Q55850&action=history). A lot of forms in Polish language is duplicated in different cases. It would be great if in word generator (+ExternalTools) in Record Wizard could be question to ask if duplicate should be recorded (identical speaker, language and lexeme), and Lingua Libre Bot propagate existing audio. It could save time. [[User:KaMan|KaMan]] ([[User talk:KaMan|talk]]) 14:28, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
+
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).
:KaMan, where does your wordlist(s?) come from ? how is it created ? You use LinguaLibre word generator ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 00:12, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
+
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
:If I understand well, you eventually have the same issue as raised in [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Warn_the_user_when_they_try_to_record_a_file_that_they_already_made|Warn the user when they try to record a file that they already made]]. Namely, you meet again and again words that you already recorded. If this is correct, then we started to look for technical solutions ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212580 T212580]). As of now, for long series, it is important to stick to large frequency list, so to not re-record similar words multiple times. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 00:17, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
+
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
:I took a look online for available frequency lists in polish.
 
:* Subtlex-pl : [http://crr.ugent.be/papers/subtlex-pl.pdf article], [http://crr.ugent.be/papers/subtlex-pl.pdf http://crr.ugent.be/programs-data/subtitle-frequencies/subtlex-pl data], available but "for research usage".
 
:* Worldlex : [https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/s13428-015-0621-0 article], [http://worldlex.lexique.org data], available but unstated license
 
:* Hermit Dave, 2016 : [https://invokeit.wordpress.com/frequency-word-lists/ page], [https://github.com/hermitdave/FrequencyWords/tree/master/content/2016/pl data], CC-by-sa
 
:So Hermit Dave's data would do. We have tutorials on [[Help:How_to_create_a_wordlist_%3F#Command|how to clean up frequency lists]],[[Help:How_to_create_a_wordlist_%3F#Splitting_a_very_long_file|how to split such long file]], other [[Help:How_to_create_a_wordlist_%3F#From_corpus_to_frequency_data_.60.7Boccurences.7D_.7Bitem.7D.60|tricks]], and [[Help:Create_your_own_lists#Create_a_new_list|how to create a list on LinguaLibre]] to help.
 
:Some command will need minor changes if your input differs. If you have some basic shell skills, you can do it and learn the exact commands needed quickly. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 01:30, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
::No Yug. He's talking about word lists generated with a SPARQL query from Lexemes on Wikidata, and from the fact that Lingua Libre Bot only associate audio recordings on the Lexeme when there is a direct link, causing him to re-record many times homograph words that are also homonym.
 
::But the main issue I pointed out in [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212580 T212580] apply here too, I don't have any idea of easy and effective implementation right now.
 
::(and no Yug, it is not "''important to stick to large frequency list''", we have other —more simple— solutions yet as Wikimedia categories or external tools imports).
 
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:10, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
::: 0x010C is right. It's not problem of wrong list, list of words is correct. If there is no easy solution to it I can work with it as is but I admit I feel pain ;) before recording of 14 identical forms of https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Lexeme:L19356 :) [[User:KaMan|KaMan]] ([[User talk:KaMan|talk]]) 13:22, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
::::"Who doesnt try cannot be wrong." It really needs to read between lines to find the Wikidata reference. "Lexeme" is lexicology term before being a Wikidata item type. The current SPARQL query doesnt seems time savy.
 
::::And yes, generally speaking frequency list of unique words save our speakers energy. First, each form is recorded only once : this is why human speakers are for, and they shouldn't have to record multiple times a same form. Second, in natural language, words frequency follow the [[:wikipedia:Zipf's law|Zipf's law]]. Thus, the 135 most frequent English items represent 50% coverage of written text. On the opposite side, recording Wikipedia categories is not representative of human language and thus not time efficient. One volunteer can audio record 2000 categories it will still barely account for 1% of this human language. This only has internal value, by wikipedians for wikipedians, which is positive but sub-optimal.
 
::::As of KaMan's case, I would still recommend using frequency list : it would save valuable human time. A later bot could dispatch the audios upon the various wikidata items of this language and form. So I just used Hermit Dave CC-by-sa data to create Polish language frequency lists on LinguaLibre for the first 20k words, they are now availale to in the [[Special:RecordWizard|Record Studio]] > Details step : Local list > "pol". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:51, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
:::::Yug, it's not a problem of frequency list but feature of language. I record all FORMS of words. Every noun in Polish has at least 14 forms, every adjective has 30-80 forms, same for verbs. Every form has entry in Wikidata and needs recording. But many of these forms are identical so in the end I have to record the same audio several times. It is independent from the fact the word is from frequency list. In other words word from frequency list has the same problem in Wikidata. BTW: I already follow frequency list in creating lexemes in Wikidata, but thanks :) [[User:KaMan|KaMan]] ([[User talk:KaMan|talk]]) 16:27, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
::::::I think I get your process now. Learning ongoing ! Still seems weird you are recording 14 times the same form. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:58, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== Homonymy ==
+
== One word, one language, one page ==
  
How homonyms are treated? Will they be overwritten with new recordings? [[User:Infovarius|Infovarius]] ([[User talk:Infovarius|talk]]) 17:42, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
+
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.
:Yes, if a new word has the same transcription, the same language and the same speaker as an old one, it will be override. If you want to record two homonym words that have a different pronunciation, you can add a small qualifier into brakets just after the word when you type it in the 3rd step of the RecordWizard. Everything that is inside brackets will be put aside, like on this record [[:File:LL-Q150 (fra)-0x010C-fils (enfant).wav]]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 21:26, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
:: It is good that this is possible in principle. But how can I know that I am recording a homonym of something already recorded? [[User:Infovarius|Infovarius]] ([[User talk:Infovarius|talk]]) 21:51, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== Categories ==
+
A possible structure would be:
:{{Done}} -- answer on feature status provided. See  [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T201135 T201135] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:52, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 
How can I automatically add some categories to new Commons uploads (like "Russian pronunciation" and others)? [[User:Infovarius|Infovarius]] ([[User talk:Infovarius|talk]]) 17:44, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
:Currently this is not possible but it is a planned feature, see [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T201135 task T201135 on phabricator]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 21:46, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== How to properly credit lists ==
+
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words
:{{Done}} : no built in solution as of now, issue opened ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212671 T212671]), current hack: put source in talk page. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:53, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
+
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"
([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212671 T212671]) I attempted this [[List:Pol/words-by-frequency-2001-to-4000#Source]], but loading the list in the Record Studio keeps the source section as a word to record. Is there a known trick to hide this source section in the Record Studio ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:56, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
+
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs
  
== Erreur de téléversements ==
+
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:
Salut,
+
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345
je rencontre un problème assez curieux. Lorsque j'ai fini de m'enregistrer, je choisis de publier sur Commons et là, une partie de mes enregistrements sont publiés et puis ça se met à planter. Après quoi, je ne peux plus en ré-upload pour une certaine période de temps. Que dois-je faire ? [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 21:17, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
+
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345
:Salut,
 
:Désolé du délai de réponse, j'étais loin de mon ordinateur pour les fêtes.
 
:Est-ce que ça t'es arrivé de nouveau depuis le 29 ? Si oui je vois deux possibilité : soit tu t'es fait déconnecté de Lingua Libre en plein milieu du versement, soit un filtre sur Commons bloque les uploads pour toi pour une raison mystérieuse. Si ça arrive de nouveau, peux-tu essayer d'ouvrir lingualibre dans un nouvel onglet, et vérifier dans cet autre onglet si tu es bien connecté ? Si le problème est là (mais ça devrait plus arriver normalement), une simple reconnexion dans l'onglet d'à côté suffit pour pouvoir ensuire reprendre le versement des enregistrements échoués.
 
:— [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:36, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:: Bonjour [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] et [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']]. Hier soir nous avons vécu la même situation : à partir d'un certains nombre de versements, une erreur de versement s'affiche à côté des fichier. En fait, je crois que la limitation vient de Commons. Après avoir constaté l'erreur dans Lingua Libre, l'utilisatrice a voulu téléverser un fichier directement dans Commons, et un bandeau indiquait que pour des raisons de sécurité, le versement de fichiers a été bloqué pour quelques temps. Voir cette explication plus complète : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Missatikamekw#Lingua_Libre]
 
:: Cordialement, [[User:Benoit Rochon|Benoit Rochon]] ([[User talk:Benoit Rochon|talk]]) 15:34, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== Menu and naming ==
 
:See also [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]
 
Hello the team, from start I've been confused by the name "Record Wizard". A wizard for me is a man doing positive magic in middle age. ''Recording Studio'' or ''Recording Room'' would seems more expected and readable. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:33, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:There is everything fine with word "wizard" in this context, it has more than one meaning. See https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wizard : "A computer program or script used to simplify complex operations" Wizard for me fits better than Studio or Room in my opinion. [[User:KaMan|KaMan]] ([[User talk:KaMan|talk]]) 16:58, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::It's a technolect, a word known by a minor community, aka "geeks" ^^. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:41, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::: No, it's not technolect of geeks, it's well established element of user interfaces representing step-by-step process. Just google for "wizard user interface". I don't know why you don't know this term, but it is well known in English when it comes to describing user interfaces in computing. As you can read at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizard_(software) the term is used by Microsoft for about 28 years and Microsoft definetly is not for geeks but for everyone. [[User:KaMan|KaMan]] ([[User talk:KaMan|talk]]) 08:21, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::::We have to consider organizers and speakers with low English literacy, and we do have them. For [[Q51302|Atayal]], speaker have 0 English literacy, marginal Chinese literacy, organizer has basic English literacy, full Chinese literacy. Most very local languages ("dialects") are or will be in such case. Let's be honest with ourselves, the UI won't be translate in all these very local languages. They will likely use ur UI in one of the 8 Macro languages (cn, es, en, fr, ru, pt, hi, ar). Our UI language is a barrier.
 
::::<code>wizard: 5806th</code> English word by frequency, including all its meaning such 'magician', 'Software UI', see [https://www.ugent.be/pp/experimentele-psychologie/en/research/documents/subtlexus/subtlexus4.zip subtlexus4.zip] from [https://ugent.be/pp/experimentele-psychologie/en/research/documents/subtlexus SUBTLEXus: WORD FREQUENCY AMERICAN ENGLISH]. Above rank 5000th it is in the [[Help:Why wordlists matter ?|range of vocabulary mastered by nearly fluent learners (C1)]]. I report my feeling that "wizard" is confusing, as it have been foor myself. IMHO our UI should be in [[:en:Basic English|Basic English]] to be readable to all users, same for other 8 macro languages, so to be friendly with basic literacy people in these Macro languages. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:15, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::::: I don't agree with you, UI should follow established UI guidelines. If all other software names step-by-step process by word "wizard" then we should do it as well. From the two words proposed by you "Room" is completly not recognizable in computing as name for wizard-like creator, and "Studio" is reserved for big, complex products like Visual Studio. Our "Record Wizard" is lightweight step-by-step creator and as such should be named like similar processes in similar software. Here are some examples to prove that word "wizard" is used for such step-by-step creators:
 
:::::* Wizard: http://www.webexe.com/images/screenshot_wizard.png
 
:::::* Wizard: http://www.htmlguard.com/images/screenshot_wizard.png
 
:::::* Wizard: http://www.video-snapshot.com/images/ss-frame-snapshot-2.jpg
 
:::::* Wizard: http://www.musereo.com/screenshots/wizard-screenshot-step-2-busy.png
 
:::::* Wizard: http://www.snapfiles.com/screenfiles/easeusdr.png
 
:::::* Wizard: https://download.komputerswiat.pl/media/2017/266/4152315/iuweshare_photo_recovery_wizard_screenshot_669x598.jpg
 
:::::* Wizard: http://www.surfoffline.com/img/wizard.gif
 
:::::* Wizard: https://static.webyog.com/images/top10features/SQLyog/reporting/schedule-backup-connection.png?version=70
 
::::: [[User:KaMan|KaMan]] ([[User talk:KaMan|talk]]) 13:14, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::::::Hi!
 
::::::On this point I totally agree with KaMan. Using an other word will maybe (or maybe not) help some people, but it will fur sure confuse every english-speaking person. That's why the interface is fully translatable, to let people understand it in their own language.
 
::::::And by the way, I can add to the list the [[:c:Special:UploadWizard|Upload Wizard]] on Commons, used daily by thousands of people around the world.
 
::::::— [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:29, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:::::::[Back from travel]
 
:::::::Your statements may be corrects (many start ups use this word), and mine too:<br>''"<code>wizard: 5806th</code> English word by frequency, including [first meaning] 'magician', [and rarer meaning] 'Software UI', see [https://www.ugent.be/pp/experimentele-psychologie/en/research/documents/subtlexus/subtlexus4.zip subtlexus4.zip] from [https://ugent.be/pp/experimentele-psychologie/en/research/documents/subtlexus SUBTLEXus: WORD FREQUENCY AMERICAN ENGLISH]. Above rank 5000th it is in the [[Help:Why wordlists matter ?|range of vocabulary mastered by nearly fluent learners (C1)]]."''<br>Therefore, not Basic English nor inclusive of low English proficiency users.<br>You are right to list dozens of English-speaking companies using it, still the statement about this word's low readability stay true. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== 2019 Prague Wikimedia Hackathon and scholarship (*bourse*) ==
+
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.
* Event: 2019 Prague Wikimedia Hackathon
 
* Place: Prague, Czech Republic
 
* Date: 17-19 May, 2019
 
* Objective: push wikimedia dev projects forward, via coding, networking, documentation.
 
* Scholarship : possible ! Please apply before January 8th included. Please send info to potential candidate.
 
* Link: [https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Hackathon_2019/Register_and_Attend mediawiki.org:Wikimedia_Hackathon_2019/Register_and_Attend]
 
  
Please spread the word around the world ! [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:21, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
+
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.
  
== Word frequencies for prioritizing, UNILEX and licence ==
+
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.
  
Would it make sense to prioritize the data entry, so that users would start recording the most frequent words of a language, and then proceed to the less important words? If you’d like to do this, here’s the [https://github.com/unicode-org/unilex/tree/master/data/frequency word frequencies for 1000+ languages], mostly from [https://github.com/googlei18n/corpuscrawler crawled corpora]. Language codes are [[:en:IETF BCP47|IETF BCP47]]. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 08:56, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
+
=== Examples from other sites ===
:This would be indeed useful. To be available on Lingua Libre, we have to create manually (or using bots) [[Help:Create your own lists|lists]] with these words. I will try to find some time to do it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:04, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
+
==== Shtooka ====
::Lol. Sascha is in computational lexicology [http://www.brawer.ch/articles/ since 1993] ^^ #Boss [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:14, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
+
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.
::Welcome Sascha, Happy to have your inputs,<br> We do encourage frequency lists usages (see [[Help:Why wordlists matter ?]]). LinguaLibre is still in it's open beta infancy.
 
::'''Process and quality :''' We started to add some frequency list (Polish) by hand based on Hermite Dave project ([https://github.com/hermitdave/FrequencyWords/blob/master/content/2016/pl/pl_50k.txt 50k list], [https://github.com/hermitdave/FrequencyWords github], [https://invokeit.wordpress.com/frequency-word-lists/ wordpress announcement]). Hermite's free data is helpful yet quite raw, namely: polluted by foreign languages. So when available, we use cleaner list from academic research. Ex: Chinese is planed via [[Template:Subtlex-ch|Subtlex-ch]]. These raw text lists are then copy-pasted into LL wikipages, so one of these lists is then loaded in the record wizard to provide a list of words for the speaker to read aloud. There is no interactive sorting, it's just loading the list as a text.
 
::'''Licence :''' The other issue we have is that half of frequency lists around have weird semi-free licenses not or unclearly compatible with Wikimedia projects. UNILEX's licence is the [http://unicode.org/copyright.html#License UNICODE licence]. <br>@LL team : Any idea how we handle data and license asking :
 
provided that either
 
(a) this copyright and permission notice appear with all copies of the Data Files or Software, or
 
(b) this copyright and permission notice appear in associated documentation.
 
::We copy it to the talkpage as well ? --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:48, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::Good point about the license. Theoretically I could ask the Unicode Consortium to change the license for Unilex to CC0; but like any relicensing discussion, this would take forever. As the person who started the Unilex project at Unicode, I currently have the impression that Wikidata Lexemes is going to be the better (more scalable, faster progressing, eventually higher quality) approach for collecting lexical data about the world’s languages. So, instead of starting a painful relicensing debate, I think it’ll be easier to simply run [https://github.com/googlei18n/corpuscrawler corpus crawler] to build these word lists from scratch. I’ve written that crawler a while ago to get started with the Unilex project; the Unilex word frequencies were built by running 1000 crawls (one for each language), and then segmenting their plaintext output with ICU word break iterators. I’ve now placed a link to the Corpus Crawler sources on [[Help:How_to_create_a_frequency_list_?#Download_corpuses|Help:How_to_create_a_frequency_list]], in case someone here wants to give it a try. If anything’s broken there, or to support additional languages in the crawler beyond the current 1000, just send a pull request via GitHub. You can also fork the crawler project if you want; the source code is a pretty dull Python script with a regular Apache-2.0 license. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 17:02, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== Enable all human languages in bulk? ==
+
==== Lingopolo ====
 +
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio
  
Would it be possible to support all existing human languages at once? Currently, one needs to file a request for each and every language. It’s not very clear how to do this (which of the admins to contact, and how exactly to contact them?). Also, the LinguaLibre admins surely can make better use of their time than by handling single language requests... For a list of all languages, see the [https://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry/language-subtag-registry IANA language subtag registry] for [https://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/ IETF BCP47]. There’s only a few thousand languages, so it might be easy to do this in one single bulk, and then be done. If it helps, I’ll gladly generate a list of (IETF-BCP47-Code, Wikidata-ID) with the mapping, or any other information you’d need for this; feel free to contact me. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 09:32, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
+
==== Forvo ====
:+1. I think there is some techical issues for search fields... anyway to go forward ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:07, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
+
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.
::Hi Sascha,
 
::For now on, I only imported languages with an iso639-2 tag, to test Lingua Libre's software with a smaller set of languages for its start (Lingua Libre is still in ''beta''). Importing ''every languages in the world'' is planned, but not on the short term, because I still have to check if the database and the software is able to manage smoothly thousend and thousend of languages.
 
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 18:24, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== Use IETF BCP47 instead of ISO 639? ==
+
==== Pixabay ====
 +
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops
  
Currently, LinguaLibre seems to use ISO 639 language codes internally. Consider switching to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IETF_language_tag IETF BCP47]; all modern computing standards such as HTML, XML or PDF have moved from ISO 639 to IETF BCP47. For example, BCP47 syntax supports regional variants such as Canadian French ''fr-CA''; language variants such as Sursilvan Romansh ''rm-sursilv''; regional subdivisions such as the Berne variant of Swiss German ''gsw-u-sd-chbe''; and other fine-grained distinctions. See [https://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/ this article] for an introduction, and the [https://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry/language-subtag-registry IANA registry of valid subtags] for the complete list. Specifically, the proposal would be to add property [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1059900 IETF BCP47 language tag (Q1059900)] to LinguaLibre’s copy of the Wikidata schema, and to use that property instead of [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q56217712 ISO 639-3 code (Q56217712)]. [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 10:40, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
+
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
:Hi Sascha!
+
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.
:In fact, Lingua Libre uses nor ISO 639-3 nor BCP47 but Wikidata Qids as internal identifier for a language. Currently, and if I remember correctly, ISO639-3 codes are used in two cases:
+
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.
:* For the name of pages containing lists in the list namespace (in the format <nowiki>[[List:ISO/List name]]</nowiki>, with ISO the iso6369-3 code);
+
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.
:* To forge Wikimedia Commons's category names
+
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
:Changing the code would affect ''only'' those two parts of the process. If we switch from one language tag to an other, we would have to:
 
:* Add a new property ''BCP47'' locally as you suggested (a bot can import them from Wikidata);
 
:* Rename all local lists (can be made by hand, we don't have many lists for now on);
 
:* Rename all existing Wikimedia Commons categories and move all the audio recordings (a bot there is required);
 
:I have personnaly no opinion on this question, but if several person agree that it would be a good move, I'll add it to the development todo-list :).
 
:Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 18:19, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::Cool! I wasn’t aware that you’re internally using Wikidata IDs. This is great, because (other than ISO 639-3) it can model arbitrary languages and dialects.
 
::* Regarding the lists, would it perhaps be an option to key them by Wikidata ID? Then, arbitrary languages/dialects could be queried, and also regional variants such as Australian English. I don’t know how your server is implemented, but perhaps you could map language codes to Wikidata IDs in your frontend server, so it would not even have to be a user-visible change (apart from supporting more languages).
 
::* Regarding the names of categories on Wikimedia Commons, what would you think of the [https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Category_.E2.80.9CLingua_Libre_pronunciation-other.E2.80.9D proposal] to use IETF language codes instead of “other”?
 
::Best, — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]])
 
  
— [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 06:14, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
+
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==
  
== Documenting langtag usages on LL ==
+
Bonjour, tout le monde.
:See [[Help:Langtags]] and  Wikipedia [[:en:Language code#Common_schemes|Language code#Common_schemes]]
 
In our [[Help:Main]], we surely could have a page [[Help:Langtags|Help:Langtags (Languages codes and LinguaLibre)]] to expose our current / planned approaches on the matter. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:23, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:[[Help:Langtags|Help:Langtags (Languages codes and LinguaLibre)]] have been initiated. So, for now we are based on LL Qid, ok. Then,
 
:# Should these local LL pages contain ISO 639-3 and BCP47 properties, or should they go into the Wikidata page ONLY ? Or both.
 
:# Audios files could contains all these as metadata tags. Should they ?
 
:# If someone could forge a [[Help:SPARQL|SPARQL query]] which list all our active languages on LL, with English name, LL-qid, WD-qid, ISO 639-3, BCP47, it could be an helpful conversion table. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:50, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::[[User:Yug|Yug]] here is you query :
 
<pre>
 
select ?languageLabel ?language ?WD ?isoCode (COUNT(?record) AS ?count)
 
where {
 
?record prop:P2 entity:Q2 .
 
?record prop:P4 ?language .
 
?language prop:P12 ?WD .
 
?language prop:P13 ?isoCode .
 
SERVICE wikibase:label {bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" .}
 
}
 
GROUP BY ?languageLabel ?language ?WD ?isoCode
 
ORDER BY DESC(?count)
 
</pre>
 
::As far as I can tell, there is no BCP47 property on LL and I added the number of records in these languages. And I don't know how to share a direct link to the query on https://lingualibre.fr/bigdata/#query ). Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:47, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:::I created [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T213530 T213530] to ask for implementing a direct link to a query. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== Support variants of Romansh ==
+
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?
{{done}} -- can be closed [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 20:31, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
Would it be possible to add support for the various variants of the Romansh language?
+
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Bonjour,
 +
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.
 +
:Désolé pour le problème :/.
 +
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !
 +
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
  
In the [https://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry/language-subtag-registry IETF BCP47 language subtag registry], rm-rumgr is the language code for Rumantsch Grischun; rm-surmiran for Rumantsch Surmiran; rm-sutsilv for Rumantsch Sutsilvan; rm-sursilv for Rumantsch Sursilvan; rm-vallader for Rumantsch Vallader; rm-puter for Rumantsch Puter.
+
== Wikidata ==
  
In Wikidata, rm-rumgr is Q688873; rm-surmiran is Q690216; rm-sutsilv is Q688272; rm-sursilv is Q688348; rm-vallader is Q690226; rm-puter is Q688309.
+
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations.
 +
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it.
 +
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options
 +
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".
 +
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.
 +
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
  
In Wikimedia commons, the category tags are subtags of [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Romansh_pronunciation Category:Romansh_pronunciation] but they are not very organized; I’ll gladly create new categories if needed.
+
== speedy et / ou delete ==
 +
Bonjour,<br />
 +
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br />
 +
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small>
 +
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
  
I’m currently uploading a couple thousand [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sursilvan_pronunciation Sursilvan pronunciations], such as [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rm-sursilv-acceptar_enzatgei.flac “acceptar ezatgei”]. It would be great to use LinguaLibre for recording additional variants of the Romansh language, and for recording the missing Sursilvan words. Your toolchain is so much nicer than [https://github.com/brawer/PronunBot my bot], so I’d love to switch over. :-)
+
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==
  
See also [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T210293 Phabricator ticket T210293] for a related request to support them for monolingual text in Wikidata, which isn’t really related to LinguaLibre but might be interesting as context.
+
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
===CSS===
 +
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)
 +
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
 +
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.
 +
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 +
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 +
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 +
===Content===
 +
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.
 +
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
  
[[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 20:18, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
+
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===
:@[[User:Sascha|Sascha]] it's done!
+
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]
:Note that the Wikidata Qid is enough, we have a script that extract automatically every other needed informations from Wikidata :).
+
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one.
:Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 09:26, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====
::For easy access:  
+
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)
::* [[:wikidata:Q688309]] : [[Q74907]]: Putèr : rm-puter
+
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br>
::* [[:wikidata:Q690226]] : [[Q74906]]: Vallader : rm-vallader
+
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".
::* [[:wikidata:Q688348]] : [[Q74905]]: Sursilvan : rm-su'''r'''silv
+
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].
::* [[:wikidata:Q688272]] : [[Q74904]]: Sutsilvan : rm-su'''t'''silv
+
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.
::* [[:wikidata:Q690216]] : [[Q74903]]: Surmiran : rm-surmiran
+
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
::* [[:wikidata:Q688873]] : [[Q74902]]: Rumantsch Grischun : rm-rumgr
+
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
::So from this live import of pointers~examples I understand how we are rolling : most properties are in wikidata only ;) (It answer my question 1. in section above)
+
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
::Thanks to 0x010C ! [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:57, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
::Thank you! — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 14:59, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?
 +
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".
 +
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
  
== Chakma ==
+
==== b. Custom-categorization:====
[[File:Screenshot 2019-01-10-22-28-54.jpg|thumb|Audio screenshot]]
+
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)
 +
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.
 +
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].
 +
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
 +
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 +
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 +
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)
  
I’ve tried to add support for the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakma_language Chakma language] by adding https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Q74105. My Chakma contact (Bivuti Chakma, bsereye@hotmail.com) was able to record Chakma pronunciations, but he reports that the final step (uploading the files to Wikimedia servers) has failed. Probably it’s my fault; I should have asked you instead of trying to do this myself... Apologies for the nuisance, and thanks for your help. [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 14:52, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====
 +
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)
 +
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
  
: Hi I am Bivuti Chakma from Bangladesh. I am working on my language to implement in technology over the globe.
+
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.
: In you site I have recorded some audio, it's not publish accurately, why?
+
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
: In this regard I include screenshot of audio.
+
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
: Thanks, Bivuti
+
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])
::It is not clear to me now, but it seems that creating language "by hand" does not work. So I imported https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Q75180. [[Help:Add_a_new_language]] should be updated. Bivuti, could you try again on few words and copy here any error message you get. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:42, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
Thanks
+
====d. Standardized naming:====
Pamputt
+
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)
 +
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier.  --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])
 +
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 +
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}
 +
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.
 +
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.
 +
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).
 +
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.
 +
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)
 +
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/
 +
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
  
When I try to audio recording. The site shows me like this screenshot:
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==='''Discussion'''===
 +
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
  
[[File:Screenshot 2019-01-11-23-18-25.jpg|thumb|Unable to connect]]
+
== Bugs ==
:Hi [[User:Bivuti|Bivuti]]!
+
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===
:Thanks for your participation.
+
Bonjour,
:I've fixed the language-import thing, which was causing the "''Unable to contact the server''" error.
+
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]].
:Concerning the publishing issue: this question may be odd, but did you actually clicked on the big blue "''Publish on Wikimedia Commons''" button?
 
:Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 04:41, 12 January 2019 (UTC
 
  
Hi
+
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.
Yes I have clicked on ''Publish on Wikimedia Commons''" button. After clicking on the button it shows publish failed, try again.
 
  
Thanks
+
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
 +
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
 +
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
 +
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
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:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
  
== Compress audio? ==
+
=== ratelimited ===
 +
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''
 +
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]]  also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning
 +
{| class="wikitable"
 +
|
 +
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited
 +
Object:
 +
  *: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."
 +
  code:"ratelimited"
 +
  info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...
 +
|}
 +
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
 +
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
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:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
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:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
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:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
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:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:
 +
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files
 +
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]
 +
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]
 +
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
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::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !
 +
::{| class="wikitable"
 +
|
 +
;Rate limits
 +
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].
 +
|}
 +
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
  
Should LinguaLibre upload its pronunciations in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLAC FLAC format] instead of uncompressed Wave files? FLAC is a lossless compression, so it would save space (and bandwidth for users) without losing quality. The only downside is that LinguaLibre’s server would use a bit more CPU, but that’s probably a very minor issue since it’s only needed once per file. To convert to FLAC in maximal compression, you can use something `ffmpeg -i input.wav -compression_level 12 output.flac`. Wikimedia Commons automatically transcodes FLAC to Vorbis and to MP3; see [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rm-sursilv-caschiel.flac example for an uploaded FLAC file]. Just a thought. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 15:09, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===
:Sascha, could you open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/3393/ Phabricator ticket] to track this proposal? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:50, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::Sure, filed [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T213534 T213534]. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 11:11, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== Category “Lingua Libre pronunciation-other” ==
+
Bonjour,
 +
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français.
 +
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :
 +
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812
 +
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :
 +
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198
 +
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]
 +
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
 +
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
  
In this [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q688348-Sascha-test.wav test], LinguaLibre has assigned a Commons category [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation-other Lingua Libre pronunciation-other]. Instead of “other”, could it use the IETF language tag (if present in Wikidata)? To get it, retrieve property [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P305 P305] from the Wikidata record for the language. And perhaps fall back to the Wikidata ID for languages that don’t have an IETF code. Then, the recordings from unrelated languages wouldn’t get conflated. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 15:17, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===
:Indeed, this point has to improved on Lingua Libre. See [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T208641 T208641] on Phabricator. About IETF codes, the problem is they do not cover all the languages/dialects spoken on earth. So the problem remains for languages that do not have IETF code. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:47, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
+
:{{done}}
::Thanks for the pointer; I’ve added a comment to [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T208641 T208641]. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 11:03, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
+
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata).  
 +
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
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: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
  
== Normalize loudness ==
+
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===
 +
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 +
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
  
Should LinguaLibre normalize the loudness of recordings to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBU_R_128 EBU R 128], so that pronunciations are perceived equally loud irrespective of user microphones? ffmpeg can do this, either if you call it directly (rather painful), or via the [https://github.com/slhck/ffmpeg-normalize ffmpeg-normalize] wrapper script. It’s also possible to embed metadata with measured loudness, which some (but not all) players recognize; but in the context of LinguaLibre, it might be best to normalize loudness on the server and resample the signal accordingly. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 16:53, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
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== Adding list into RecordWizard ==
:I would like this normalization for my usages as well, language learning.<br>Note @[[User:Sascha|Sascha]] : relevant ''normalize loudness'', ''denoising'' , ''fading-in-and-out'' cleanups commands to document in [[Help:Main#Download,_clean,_web_use]] > [[Help:SoX]] (to rename?). Denoise, fading not used serverside so far. 0x010C coded the recorder js and can give specifics. I'am of the opinion that such clean up scripts would sooner (server side) or later (after dataset download) come handy. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:33, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
:{{done}}
::[https://www.google.com/search?q=EBU+R128+LOUDNESS+NORMALISATION+ffmpeg Google:EBU R128 Loudness Normalisation ffmpeg] > [http://peterforgacs.github.io/2018/05/20/Audio-normalization-with-ffmpeg/ Audio Loudness Normalization With FFmpeg], [https://superuser.com/a/323127 Answer: How can I normalize audio using ffmpeg?]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:38, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
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Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
:If normalization was done before uploading to Wikimedia Commons, all Wikipedia users would benefit (eg. when someone clicks on pronunciation icon on Wikipedia, they’d hear the recording in uniform loudness, denoised, etc.). If normalization is done in utility scripts called by end users, the set of people who benefit from this will be much smaller. The trade-off is that the recordings wouldn’t get preserved in their original form, but that’s probably not much an issue for LinguaLibre? — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 06:24, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
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:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
::Sascha, could you open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/3393/ Phabricator ticket] to track this proposal? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:49, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
+
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
:::Sure, filed [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T213535 T213535]. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 11:17, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
+
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
::::Phabricator starts to have a load of server side developments to do. Not sure volunteers and opensource model will be productive enough. Maybe should we ask for a funding for 2 months dev work. In France it's about 6~8k€. Any lead ? Wikimedia france ? Grants ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:00, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
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::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
  
== Request for Comment: Moving from ISO 639-3 language codes to IETF BCP47 ==
+
== Datasets out of date ==
 +
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
  
Hi Lingua Libre users,
+
== How much to record at once? ==
 +
:{{done}}
 +
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
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::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.
 +
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user",  "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].
 +
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
  
[[User:Sascha|Sascha]] suggested several times that Lingua Libre should switch from [[:w:ISO 639-3|ISO 639-3 language codes]] to [[:w:IETF language tag|IETF BCP47 language tags]]. If we do that, it will be a major change in the Lingua Libre code-base. I will summarize here the different usages, pros & cons of such a switch.
+
== Pages translation ==
 +
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
==== New admins ? ====
 +
:''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''
 +
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :
 +
:* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.
 +
:* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
  
Please share your opinion on this bellow!
+
=== Userrights===
 +
:{{done}}
 +
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)
 +
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:
 +
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)
 +
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code>
 +
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small>
 +
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created:
 +
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
  
Thank you all for your participation. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 16:59, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
+
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==
  
=== Overview ===
+
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
Lingua Libre uses Wikidata Qids as internal identifier of a language. So the proposed change will not affect the core of the Record Wizard. Currently, ISO639-3 codes are used in four cases:
+
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
* For the name of pages containing lists in the list namespace (in the format <nowiki>[[List:ISO/List name]]</nowiki>, with ISO the iso6369-3 code);
+
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
* In the name of the [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ datasets archives];
+
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
* In the description of the local item of each audio recording;
+
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
* To forge Wikimedia Commons's category names;
+
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
* To forge each file name that is uploaded on Wikimedia Commons;
 
  
; Technical considerations
+
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==
If we switch from one language tag to an other, to be consistent and use the new language tag everywhere, we would have to:
+
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
# Create a new property ''BCP47'', and add it to every language items localy, for the Record Wizard to be able to use them (a bot can import them from Wikidata);
 
# Rename all local word lists (can be made by hand, we don't have many lists for now on);
 
# Make a quick adaptation in the script that generates the datasets;
 
# Rename all existing Wikimedia Commons categories and move all the audio recordings (a bot there is required);
 
# Update the description of the item of every audio recording in our database (a bot can do it);
 
# Change the way the Record Wizard manages the recording of duplicate words in two different recording sessions: it currently check if a file  has already the forged name on Wikimedia Commons, but as the format of the name would change, we won't be able to rely on it anymore.
 
  
;Pros
+
{| class="wikitable sortable"
* BCP47 is widely used in computing standards;
+
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)
* It has codes for way more languages and dialects;
+
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"
* It will solve the categorization issue we have currently on Wikimedia Commons (see [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T208641#4873999 T208641]);
+
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far
* We will have a language code to display for way more languages and dialects (we only show the Wikidata Qid in file names for small languages curently, which is not very user-friendly, e.g. [[:File:LL-Q36759-Assassas77-歡喜.wav]]);
+
|-
* Allow to have word lists working as expected for small languages / dialects;
+
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%
* Some Wiktionaries (like the French Wiktionary) use this standard to refer to a language in their templates; this is also the case of Wikibase (and so Wikidata) for the language of labels and description.
+
|-
 
+
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain
;Cons
+
|-
* As we cannot rename 60.000+ files on Wikimedia Commons, two different file format will have to coexist (but this is not an issue if you use the SPARQL endpoint to extract the metadatas);
+
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%
* As of today, only [http://tinyurl.com/yby5dgb8 3003 languages] have their IETF language tag filled on Wikidata (we have currently [http://tinyurl.com/y8gd77lp 8028 languages] with an ISO 639-3 code listed);
+
|-
* Once the changes made to the Record Wizard and the migration scripts ready to run, we would have to turn off the Record Wizard for one or several days, while the different bots are running to avoid unsynchronized items and conflicts.
+
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%
 
+
|-
— [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 16:59, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
+
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%
 
+
|-
=== Comments ===
+
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights ||  Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%
# '''Support''': This will be a hard change but if it has to be done, it's better to do it now rather than in several years. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 16:59, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
+
|-
# '''Contre''' : French wiktionnary don't use IETF code. Sorry I continue in french : L'IETF fait n'importe quoi avec les langues régionales, c'est pire que ISO 639-3. Nous n'utilisons pas les code IETF, jamais à aucun moment. Soit on prend le code ISO, ce qui marche pour 5000 langues environ, soit on prend le nom de la langue en français, ou en anglais si absent. Aujourd'hui, les contributeurs du Wiktionnaire tendent à s'affranchir de plus en plus des codes et de passer sur les noms de langues en tant que clés primaires. La seule organisation qui fassent l'unanimité sur les langues parce que gérée uniquement par des linguistes, c'est Glottolog, à la limite, on peut se caler dessus, ce sont les plus neutres. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 17:46, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
+
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%
# '''Oppose (weakly)''' IETF looks to assign a code to more languages than ISO 639-3 codes. Yet, it does not solve all the issue because I guess it is possible to find language/dialect that do not have either ISO 639-3 or IETF code. In such case, all the issues we have with ISO 639-3 remain the same. If we have to switch to another code system, I has to solve some issues, not only to postpone them. From now, the only code that is flexible and can desribe all language/dialect is the Wikidata code but there are probably other issues if we decide to use them. But since I do not precisely IETF code, I may be wrong so that I do not want to oppose strongly. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:37, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
+
|-
# '''Oppose''' per Pamputt: if it not covers all the dialects then we still have the same problem. Also I don't feel comfortable with two systems in filenames in Commons. I have lots of homonims in Polish and I afraid I would have two files for the same pronounciation from Lingua Libre for one transcription. That would be nightmare for bot operators adding audio files to wiktionaries. [[User:KaMan|KaMan]] ([[User talk:KaMan|talk]]) 09:00, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
+
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. ||  Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%
# '''Support''': There’s a couple misunderstandings here. IETF BCP47 is actually ''not'' yet another random codelist that would be different from ISO codes. Rather, BCP47 is a standardized system (and very widely used, eg. in HTML, XML and HTTP) that combinines subtags from other standards. For languages, subtags are taken from ISO 639; for countries, from ISO 3166-1; for provinces/states, from ISO 3166-2; etc. Also, you can add custom information into BCP47 tags without breaking the syntax; this could be used for embedding Wikidata IDs. Here’s a few examples: `en` for English (from ISO 639-1); `haw` for Hawaiian (from ISO 639-3, because Hawaiian has no two-letter code in ISO 639-1); `fr-CA` for Canadian French (language + country); `pt-AO` for Angolan Portuguese; `es-419` for Latin American Spanish (419 is the United Nations M.49 code for Latin America). There is a registry for standardized variants, for example the BCP47 code `rm-sursilv` stands for the Sursilvan variant of Romansh. When a language does not fit into the scheme, you can always append (short) pieces of “private” data after `-x-`. For example, you could encode Verlan (which doesn’t have an ISO language code) as an IETF BCP47 language tag `mis-x-Q1429662` or so. Admittedly, the Wikipedia article about BCP47 is not very helpful at the moment, and the standard itself is very technical. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 20:10, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 
#: As I said, I do not know a lot about IETF BCP47 so I may be wrong. Yet, from the examples you give, you say that the language code comes from ISO 639, so actually if a language do not have ISO 639 code, then BCP47 will not have either. The only advantage I see, compared to ISO 639, is it can represent dialect and regional language (Canada French for example). Youwrite that if a language do not have ISO 639 code, then we can use something like `mis-x-Q1429662`. I do not see what is the advantage compared to simply use Wikidata ID (Q1429662 instead of mis-x-Q1429662). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:21, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 
#::In names of [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ dataset archives], names of uploaded pronunciation files, and in the other [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Overview|places]] where Lingua Libre currently uses ISO 639-3 codes, a BCP 47 tag would be easier to understand than just the Wikidata ID alone. For example, an IETF BCP 47 tag ''nan-x-Q36759'' would identify [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teochew_dialect Teochew] as a variant of Southern Min (ISO 639-3: nan) while still pointing to Wikidata [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q36759 Q36759] for the exact identification. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 07:03, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 
# '''Support''': I already have problems due to the impossibility to distinct variants in occitan. For instance, if a gascon occitan want to record words from a predefinite list (because he has no idea of which words to record), he can't search for a list in its variant. He will click randomly on lists names, until he got one in his variant (which can takes long and cause him to give up).  
 
#:Second, on Commons, it will be easier for people who doesn't know Wikidata (for instance a teacher who wants to download words in a variety to have his pupils listening them) to get the variety of the word, directly in the results of the search page (with the filenames).
 
#:Third, for the compatibility with developpers programs. At Lo Congrès, we work with RFC5646 (we needed a way to indicate variants). If we make a program which queries Lingua Libre, we need to add a query via Wikidata to get the variety code compatible with our programs. It slows the page and make the work longer.
 
#:I work every day on a language with variants, and for the sort of work I (and others) do, it would be a real improvement. So maybe IETF is theoretically problematic for his language classement, but ISO 639-3 is pragmatically problematic. As a developer, I prefer a usable system that doesn't fit exactly the reality than a system teoretically right that can't be used without a lot of difficulties. — [[User:Unuaiga|Unuaiga]] ([[User talk:Unuaiga|talk]]) 16:21, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 
# '''Support''' (for human friendly filenames): I was slow to answer because it's indeed a tricky issue. For all recordings, the value of their langtags −Qids, ISO639-3, BCP47−, exist or can be created. Qids are always new creations assigned when creating the language on LL's wiki, whereas ISO639-3 and BCP47 can exist OR be extended. Each langtag family can covers +5000 languages and do the job we need them for up to 2025~ 2030, with custom extensions when required easier for Qid (still normal creation) and BCP47 (custom extension). Then, the equivalences between these 3 or more langtags can be found by wikimedia editors or outsiders via the Qid or Wikidata pages and few clicks. Afterwhat each langtag and its value can find its way back into the filename via some replacement script. So for me '''these Qids, ISO639-3, BCP47 langtags are technically equivalents : they each can do the work''' and be quite interchangeable.<br>'''The question is on HUMAN USAGES'''. Three groups of humans will manages these files and filenames : 1) LL speakers, organizers and editors ; 2) wikimedia users ; 3) outsiders like android app developers and non-recording linguists. Who is more important ? To who do we want to make access, readability and work easier ? What is their spontaneous knowledge ?
 
#* '''The current way: opaque Qid-based filename online, post-download processing to make them readable'''. We have filename with unreadable Qids, with the actual human-friendly value on LinguaLibre Qid's page. So for us LL editors and maintainers, if we find out our language definition is obsolete, we just update the LL Qid's page, and new people coming there for reference will see the corrected values. For end users on wikimedia cannot directly recognize the language. After files or datasets download, batch renaming commands documented on LL can help end users to renames files as they wish.
 
#* '''Datasets and filenames should be  human-readable pre-downnload'''. If so, then the ISO 639-3-based IETF BCP-47 can cover 99% of our easy usages, and BCP-47 has native flexibility to create code for the 1% weird cases. Wikimedia users and outside-wikimedia users will appreciate. If we make mistakes, the vitality of open data spread wrongly name files and will get us troubles.
 
#* We will need better LinguaLibre-Commons maintenance bots and more bots masters, so we don't always rely on 0x010C, who thereby become our bottleneck. We also need way to massively rename or remove files from Commons.  
 
#* I personally think we have to ease readability to outsiders, app developers and linguists who won't find their way through LL documentations. Also, I'am supporting a move toward human-friendly filenames, from LL website down to wikimedia sites and post-download outsiders' desktops computers. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:18, 14 January 2019 (UTC) -note: I have a cold so my English seems worse than usual, my apologize.
 
::{| class="wikitable"
 
|+ Implications
 
 
|-
 
|-
! Approach || For LL editors || Wikimedia editors || Outsiders
+
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%
 
|-
 
|-
! Custom Qid codes,<br>created as needed,<br>opaque<br>(LinguaLibre Qids)
+
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small>
|| Correcting language scope/definition : easy, only change value of fields IETF BCP-47.<br>Existing files with this Qid, wherever they are, implicitly follow the corrected value. || Opaque filenames, not editable because by convention.<br>Readable value to find on LinguaLibre.<br>Commons page can have a def and links. || Opaque filenames.<br>Value on LinguaLibre's Qid page<br>Post-download: commands to rename batch of files, documented in [[Help:Main]].
 
 
|-
 
|-
! Existing codes,<br>extensible,<br>readable<br>(ex:ISO 639-3-based IETF BCP-47)
+
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center>
|| Correcting language scope/definition : Hard, only new recording affected.<br>Existing files with this code will each require correction. || Readable filenames, no need to rename. || Readable filenames.<br>Ready to go.
 
 
|}
 
|}
 +
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====
 +
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br>
 +
Also, he pointed out the following points:
 +
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.
 +
** This will occurs in late October.
 +
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.
 +
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.
  
=== Tricky example ===
+
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :
Let's take a concrete example, what would be the code for the [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q60610865 Gudjal language], a Pama-Nyungan language spoken in Australia? This language has neither ISO 639 code nor BCP47 code. It has a Glottolog, AUSTLANG and endangeredlanguages.com identifiers. So if we decide to switch to BCP47, what would be the advantage compared to the existing one (ISO 639) because there is no code in both systems? We simply delay the discussion on the problem of languages or dialects without code. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:20, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
+
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)
: Since Gudjal is a dialect/variant of Warrungu whose BCP47 code is ''wrg'', the BCP47 code for Gudjal would be ''wrg-x-Q60610865''. To find the prefix for arbitrary languages in Wikidata, it looks like we’ll have to clean up Wikidata a bit. For example, currently there’s no statement in Wikidata linking [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1429662 Verlan] to French; we’d need that to come up with the code ''fr-x-Q1429662'' for Verlan. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 19:23, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
+
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:
::Indeed, wrong example because some work say this "language" is actually a dialect of the Warrungu language.
+
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]
::So let us consider the [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4997965 Bunwurrung language], another Pama-Nyungan language spoken in Australia. This one does not seem to be (yet?) a dialect of another language. So, what would be its BCP47 code? The same for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q56261010 Bwenelang language], a Austronesian language spoken in Vanuatu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 20:11, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
+
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]
:::In the short term, their codes would be mis-x-Q4997965 and mis-x-Q56261010. In the long term, it would be good to assign ISO 639-3 codes to these languages. This is actually quite easy (if there’s references about the language). See [https://iso639-3.sil.org/about/faq FAQ], or this [https://iso639-3.sil.org/sites/iso639-3/files/change_requests/2018/2018-021.pdf example registration request]. Requests are [https://iso639-3.sil.org/code_changes/change_management reviewed once per year]. All changes to ISO 639-3 also go into the registry for BCP 47. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 11:23, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::::Thanks for the examples. In my opinion, "mis-x-Q4997965" is more cryptic than only "Q4997965". If a language has a ISO 639-3 code, then the BCP47 code is indeed easier to understand than a Qid. So, as I already said, the advantage is to make clearer the code for the dialects but it does not solve all the problems (such as these two languages. Since such code change will not be done every month, I would prefer to have a better solution (more universal) before breaking/changing everything. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:42, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:::::I find <code>mis-x-Q4997965</code> less crypting : as soon as you know the naming scheme you can assume  <code>mis-x-*</code> is a rare language. If 98% of our languages get clearer with BCP47, and 2% are such as <code>mis-x-Q4997965</code>, it's a net improvement of 98%, let's go for it. [https://xkcd.com/927/ Let's not force to the throat of our end users a 15th new standard]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:04, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
=== Encoding Wikidata IDs into BCP47 ===
 
By the way, in a BCP47 language tag such as ''wrg-x-Q60610865'', anyone can stuff anything after -x- which is flexible but not ideal for an identification scheme. I’m now preparing a formal proposal for encoding Wikidata IDs into BCP47 language tags. BCP47 already draws subtags from many other registries such as ISO 639, ISO 3166, UN M.49 and others; so why not treating Wikidata as yet another “registration authority”. If the proposal gets accepted, the official syntax would be something different than ''-x-''. Just for your information; I’ve no idea if the proposal gets accepted, and it usually takes a long time to make changes. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 12:20, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:Thanks Sascha ! It would be awesome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:24, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Ne pas proposer les termes pour lesquels on a déjà téléversé un enregistrement ==
 
 
 
Bonjour.
 
 
 
Tout est dans le titre : si je reprends les termes d’une liste déjà partiellement enregistrée, LinguaLibre me propose d’en réenregistrer tout les membres, ce qui ne me semble guère pertinent. Il devrait plutôt ne proposer que des termes pour lesquels je n’ai encore rien enregistré.
 
 
 
Cordialement. [[User:Penegal|Penegal]] ([[User talk:Penegal|talk]]) 17:36, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:Hello Penegal ! This feature has been requested before. We have a phabricator task on it ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212580 T212580]),defining the problem and storing on the [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/lingua_libre/ LinguaLibre developers' dashboard]. Previous discussion have concluded that this feature isn't easy to provide. We call for volunteer developer.s with required skills to jump in and develop a script providing this service.
 
:Which word lists do you work with ? You could compare the lists before work, using [https://linux.die.net/man/1/comm comm] (<code>comm -13 recorded.txt nextlist.txt</code>). An alternative is to progress not via thematic lists or extracts from texts as of now on FRA, but with method, more specifically by recording words from the most frequent to the lesser ones. We currently don't have large frequency list for FRA. If this would satisfy your needs, please message me. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:12, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::I could use that, but how would you extract the list of already recorded items? Starting from my contributions list doesn't seem very scriptable. Is there an API or something that could give me a parseable output? [[User:Penegal|Penegal]] ([[User talk:Penegal|talk]]) 17:31, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:::I definitively need a list of your previous recordings to use it as reference for comparison via [https://linux.die.net/man/1/comm comm]. I guessed you used lists from [[Special:PrefixIndex/List:Fra]] and could tell me which ones you previously used ? Now I pray :D [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:24, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:::Oh, all good. I have [https://lingualibre.fr/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=&limit=4000&contribs=user&target=Penegal&namespace=&tagfilter=&start=&end= something] I can work with. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:29, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:::After 1040x2 deletions, it's clean : [[List:Fra/Penegal-temp]]. Give me one evening to come with your next wordlists. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::::You mean you'll have to update this list for me each time? I hope not; I can't ask you to be my bot, it will be a pain in the ass to you. [[User:Penegal|Penegal]] ([[User talk:Penegal|talk]]) 18:18, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:::::I use http://opus.nlpl.eu/OpenSubtitles-v2018.php's fr corpus of 106.8M (3.5Gb) sentences to create a reliable oral french frequency list. I will subtract from it [[List:Fra/Penegal-temp|the list]] of your recorded words, so the next words you do are new. I'am on it right now, working smooth, having fun, ready soon. Few more hours of work needed. The shell commands i use will be shared so other members can do it as well for most of the 60+ other languages. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:51, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:Umh, based on OpenSubtitle's corpus<nowiki>[</nowiki>[http://opus.nlpl.eu/OpenSubtitles-v2018.php 1]] and my current shell commands, there is what I get : [[Special:PrefixIndex/List:Fra/subtlex-for-user-Penegal]], from 0001 to 8000th for now. More if you need. It's a solid frequency list. Yet I'am not satisfied : there is quite some noise.
 
:# '''Noise:''' Lot of characters names, a bunch of basic English words. I review and cleaned up the [[List:Fra/subtlex-for-user-Penegal-06001-to-08000|6000 to 8000th]] list: out of 2000 items, I had to edit 206 modifications (10%) and make 82 deletions (4%) ([https://lingualibre.fr/index.php?title=List%3AFra%2Fsubtlex-for-user-Penegal-06001-to-08000&type=revision&diff=83866&oldid=83864 diff], open view-source:https://lingualibre.fr/index.php?title=List%3AFra%2Fsubtlex-for-user-Penegal-06001-to-08000&type=revision&diff=83866&oldid=83864 and search for "diff-deletedline" and "diff-addedline").
 
:# '''Script improvements:''' as we review anc correct [[Special:PrefixIndex/List:Fra/subtlex-for-user-Penegal|these files]], I will keep track of the edits we do and integrate them to my script to generate better list, with or without English words and with or without names. Another direction would be to [https://stackoverflow.com/a/11100045/8992875 compare] this list to Lexique3's items, since they already made this verification.
 
:# '''Immediate priority:''' I will review and edit-clean up these files by hand to 1) remove *pure* English words, 2) recapitalize names. It takes about 20 by page. Help welcome (adopt a file [[Special:PrefixIndex/List:Fra/subtlex-for-user-Penegal|ici]]). I'am also and must continue to improve and document these commands. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:05, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::Wow, you lost me. What are you trying to do? [[User:Penegal|Penegal]] ([[User talk:Penegal|talk]]) 09:15, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:::Hahahaha. I try to create a good, open license, systematic frequency list so FRA speakers may record French words following an efficient recording path. Efficiency being measured as lexical coverage of spoken French corpus compared to recording effort. It makes more sense to record frequently occurring words first. Then go down the road. (But there is some noise in my frequency list, see 26 January 2019's message XD)
 
:::Then, on this list, I subtracted your previous 1000+ records, so the lists and words in [[Special:PrefixIndex/List:Fra/subtlex-for-user-Penegal]] are all new to you AND statistically the most frequent on spoken French corpus from OpenSubtitle.org.
 
:::It makes sense from a computational linguistic point of view, I'am not sure I satisfy your former request tho. But it was fun to do ^^ [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:49, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Requête Wikidata pour la création d'une liste de mots ==
 
 
 
Bonjour !
 
 
 
Quand j'essaie de créer une liste de mots à partir d'une requête Wikidata, j'obtiens toujours la même erreur. [https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Ffemale%20%3FfemaleLabel%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22%5BAUTO_LANGUAGE%5D%2Cen%22.%20%7D%0A%20%20%3Ffemale%20wdt%3AP21%20wd%3AQ6581072.%0A%20%20%3Ffemale%20wdt%3AP106%20wd%3AQ2252262.%0A%20%20%3Ffemale%20wdt%3AP27%20wd%3AQ142.%0A%7D%0ALIMIT%20100 Voilà l'URL que j'utilise.]
 
 
 
L'erreur indiquée est "Result must contain both "id" and "label" field.". Est-ce que j'ai raté quelque chose ? :) [[User:Exilexi|Exilexi]] ([[User talk:Exilexi|talk]]) 17:16, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
 
: Salut Exilexi, est-ce que tu peux essayer avec [https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fid%20%3FidLabel%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22%5BAUTO_LANGUAGE%5D%2Cen%22.%20%7D%0A%20%20%3Fid%20wdt%3AP21%20wd%3AQ6581072.%0A%20%20%3Fid%20wdt%3AP106%20wd%3AQ2252262.%0A%20%20%3Fid%20wdt%3AP27%20wd%3AQ142.%0A%7D%0ALIMIT%20100 cette requête] ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 20:48, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:: Bonjour Pamputt, ça me donne la même erreur. --[[User:Exilexi|Exilexi]] ([[User talk:Exilexi|talk]]) 13:23, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 
:::En effet, je passe mon tour, car je n'ai pas plus d'idée. Je pense qu'il faudra attendre qu'0x010C passe ici pour te répondre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:42, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 
:Salut Exilexi,
 
:Cette requête va fonctionner : [https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fid%20%3Flabel%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fid%20wdt%3AP21%20wd%3AQ6581072.%0A%20%20%3Fid%20wdt%3AP106%20wd%3AQ2252262.%0A%20%20%3Fid%20wdt%3AP27%20wd%3AQ142.%0A%20%20%0A%20%20%3Fid%20rdfs%3Alabel%20%3Flabel.%0A%20%20FILTER%28lang%28%3Flabel%29%20%3D%20%22en%22%29.%0A%7D%0ALIMIT%20100].
 
:En fait, l'analyseur de résultats est assez simpliste pour le moment, il faut forcément que le Qid (ou Lid) de ton item soit dans une colonne nommé ''?id'' et que le label associé dans une colonne nommé ''?label''. Quand j'en aurais le temps, je pourrais améliorer cela, mais ce n'est malheureusement pas encore pour tout de suite... :/
 
:Bons enregistrements ! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:32, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Mauvais code langue ==
 
 
 
Bonjour,
 
Un de mes locuteur n'a pas choisi le bon code langue lors de l'enregistrement de la liste Oci/cosina , est-il possible de corriger les noms de fichiers (Ex : LL-Q150 (oci)-Ives (Guilhelma)-adobar.wav au lieu de LL-Q150 (fra)-Ives (Guilhelma)-adobar.wav ?
 
:Salut Guilhelma,
 
:J'ai commencé il y a quelques semaines à développer un script pour effectuer des corrections à grande échelle. En attendant,  j'ai listé les enregistrements en question sur [[LinguaLibre:Misleading items]] en mémo, comme ça dès que j'aurais fini hop je corrigerais tout d'un coup :).
 
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:40, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
 
:: Merci [[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]
 
 
 
== For your information (langtag) ==
 
Google Speech documents its [https://cloud.google.com/speech-to-text/docs/languages languages support] using ... [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== TimedMediaHandler  ==
 
 
 
Bonjour,
 
 
 
Je serais très intéressé de savoir comment vous avez paramétré le lecteur TimedMediaHandler.
 
 
 
En effet, je souhaiterais que les utilisateurs puissent rapidement différencier les sons en rapport avec le mot lui-même de sa prononciation, si possible avec un lecteur plus compact pour la prononciation. Surtout que nous n'avons pas besoin de la barre de navigation dans le fichier pour des fichiers autant courts. [https://dicoado.org/dico/dauphin Vous trouverez un exemple de mon "problème" ici].
 
 
 
Merci ! [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 21:42, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 
:Bonjour DSwissK,
 
:Les lecteurs audio présent dans le RecordWizard et sur les pages de la sonothèque ont été créé spécialement pour Lingua Libre, et n'ont rien à voir avec l'extension TimedMediaHandler. C'est le bout de javascript suivant qui en est responsable :
 
:<source lang="js">
 
function playButton( audioUrl ) {
 
var button = new OO.ui.ButtonWidget( {
 
framed: false,
 
icon: 'play',
 
title: 'play'
 
} );
 
button.on( 'click', function() {
 
var audio = new Audio( audioUrl );
 
audio.play();
 
} );
 
 
 
return button.$element;
 
}</source>
 
:Lorsqu'un le RecordWizard ou la sonothèque récupère l'url d'un media audio, ils le passent à cette fonction qui en retour renvoie un element JQuery qu'il suffit d'insérer à l'endroit désiré dans la page.
 
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 21:59, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 
::Super, merci beaucoup. Je vais donc essayer ça. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 12:00, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Lien direct vers fichier .ogg ==
 
 
 
Bonjour,
 
 
 
Je remarque que les fichiers envoyés au format WAV sont automatiquement transcodés en MP3 et OGG.
 
 
 
Est-il dès lors possible d'utiliser directement ces fichiers avec un lien direct ?
 
 
 
Pour le fichier https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q150_(fra)-DSwissK-ambidextre.wav , j'ai tenté de faire lire, avec html5player, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/6/69/LL-Q150_%28fra%29-DSwissK-ambidextre.wav/LL-Q150_%28fra%29-DSwissK-ambidextre.wav.ogg mais sans succès (en plus de l'URL compliquée...)
 
 
 
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 12:53, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 
:Salut DSwissk,
 
:Tu as du faire une erreur autre part, car cela fonctionne très bien. Le player Kaltura, qui est le lecteur multimédia utilisé sur les wikis Wikimedia, tape d'ailleurs sur cette même version transcodé en OGG ;). Tu peux le tester tout simplement avec une balise audio <code><audio src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/6/69/LL-Q150_%28fra%29-DSwissK-ambidextre.wav/LL-Q150_%28fra%29-DSwissK-ambidextre.wav.ogg" controls></code> (par contre, oui, l'url est longue et reloue...).
 
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 13:53, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 
::Merci pour ta réponse rapide, 0x010C. J'ai effectivement réussi en insérant le code suivant dans le modèle "<code><nowiki>{{#tag:html5media|https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/6/69/{{urlencode:{{{prononciation|}}}|WIKI}}/{{urlencode:{{{prononciation|}}}|WIKI}}.ogg}}</nowiki></code>"
 
::Le problème : chaque fichier à un répertoire de transcodage différent. C'est donc impossible de faire un lien direct depuis un modèle vers le bon endroit, n'est-ce pas ?
 
::Merci et belle fin de journée. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 15:28, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 
:::Je ne connais pas ce player ''html5media'',  mais la façon la plus propre ça serait plutôt que ce soit lui qui forger la bonne url (comme le fait Kaltura sur les wikis Wikimedia), si tu tiens à avoir de l'ogg et non du wav. Sinon, t'as toujours la solution de calculer à la volée le nom du répertoire dans lequel se trouve le fichier. C'est en fait les deux premiers caractères du hash md5 du nom du fichier ([[:c:Commons:FAQ#What_are_the_strangely_named_components_in_file_paths.3F|cf doc]]), que tu peux facilement calculer avec la fonction <code>mw.hash.hashValue( 'md5', nomDuFichier )</code> en lua si l'[[:mw:Extension:Scribunto|extension Scribunto]] est installé.
 
:::Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 22:44, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 
::::Merci de ta réponse. Je n'ai pas installé l'extension Scribunto (et je me sens bien incapable de coder en Lua) mais il me semble que TimedMediaHandler (qui est, lui, installé sur le wiki) utilise Kaltura. Saurais-tu comment lui demander de forger la bonne URL (ou alors le forcer à s'afficher en mode "audio") ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 13:48, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
 
:::::Si ça peut servir à quelqu'un (comment forcer l'affichage "moderne") :
 
:::::Il faut ajouter "$wgTmhWebPlayer = $wmgTmhWebPlayer;" dans LocalSettings.php [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 16:49, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Some bugs ==
 
Lingua Libre is awesome! Thank you for developing it! I found some issues:
 
* After setting my Name in the preferences to "Michael Schönitzer" (with ö) all uploads fail:
 
<pre>
 
{"upload":{"result":"Warning","warnings":{"badfilename":"LL-Q188_(deu)-Michael_Sch\u00f6nitzer_(MichaelSchoenitzer)-Elektrodynamik.wav"},"filekey":"…","sessionkey":"…"}}
 
</pre>
 
* The record more files on the "Publish" page does not work
 
* When deleting a recording in the "Publish"-page there is no possibility to record it again it.
 
* Words I already recorded show up again when using one of the generators.
 
Hope those bugs can be fixed! I use Firefox 65 on Linux. -- [[User:MichaelSchoenitzer|MichaelSchoenitzer]] ([[User talk:MichaelSchoenitzer|talk]]) 23:34, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
 
*: Concerning the name that uses UTF8 characters, I opened [[phab:T218373|T218373]]
 
*: Concerning the not working "record more files", I opened a bug report about it: [[phab:T218371|T218371]]
 
*: Concerning the second point (When deleting a recording in the "Publish"-page there is no possibility to record it again), I do not think there is any bug report on it. Feel free to open one.
 
*: Concerning recording again words you have already recorded, see [[phab:T212580|T212580]]
 
*: Thanks for reporting these bugs. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 23:20, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Hackathon Bordeaux, May 2019 ==
 
:More info [[LinguaLibre:Events]]
 
Hi everyone, Edouard and myself will gather in early may to lead a one day, 10am-6pm hackathon in Bordeaux city, France. Please follow the dedicated page and add your name if your are interested to join in and keep informed. Best regards ! [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:45, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
== New languages (Bikol languages is a macro language) ==
 
 
 
Hi! I am an editor in Wikipedia and I would like to contribute in these languages but I could find the following:
 
  
*Buhi’non Bikol [ubl] -> see [[Q115106]]
+
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre.
*Central Bikol [bcl] -> see [[Q115107]]
 
*Libon Bikol [lbl] -> see [[Q115108]]
 
*Miraya Bikol [rbl] -> see [[Q115109]]
 
*Northern Catanduanes Bikol [cts] -> see [[Q115110]]
 
*Rinconada Bikol [bto] -> see [[Q115111]]
 
*Southern Catanduanes Bikol [bln] -> see [[Q115112]]
 
*West Albay Bikol [fbl] -> see [[Q115113]]
 
  
Please add these languages. Thanks!
+
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors.  
  
[[User:Filipinayzd|Filipinayzd]] ([[User talk:Filipinayzd|talk]]) 06:16, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
+
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
:Dear Filipinayzd, welcome on Lingua Libre. I created all the languages you asked for. You can now start to record some words in these languages. Good luck. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:49, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== [[LinguaLibre:Stats|Stats History]] ==
+
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==
Hi there, As we get closer to the 100,000 audios milestone I would like to see the quantitative evolution of LinguaLibre these past 8 months. Are we speeding up or slowing down ? This kind of things. Does anyone know how we could get the number of audio we had the 1st day of each month since August 2018 ? Ideally by editing a bit the first query of the [[LinguaLibre:Stats|stats page]].<br>
+
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;)
So far I hand-collected this :
+
* Username : <code>yourusername</code>
{| class="wikitable"
+
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code>
! Date </translate>  <!-- YYYY.MM.DD--> || Items || Speakers|| Languages || Comment
+
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code>
 +
* OS : <code>name-version</code>
 +
* Microphone : <code>built-in|external</code>
 +
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}
 +
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"
 +
! Tester username || Speeding occurs ? || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type
 
|-
 
|-
| 2018.08 || ? || ~10 || 5 || Alpha release; Mainly tests.
+
| DSwissK || yes || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal
 
|-
 
|-
| 2018.12 || ? || ? || ? || Beta release.
+
| ClasseNoes || yes || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal
 
|-
 
|-
| 2019.04.01 || 93173 || 128 || 46 ||
+
| <add yourself> || || || ||
 
|}
 
|}
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
 
:I've just added a new section to the [[LinguaLibre:Stats|Stats]] page :)
 
:Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 01:14, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
 
::Thank you 0x010C :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 04:35, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
 
:::Thank 0x010C ! :D [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:11, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
 
:Would it be possible to add a sum of the records over the months (and not only for a given month), so that we can see the evolution of the number of records as a function of the time? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:11, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
 
::You want cumulative rather than just by monthly actions. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:03, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
 
:::Yes. I guess this is possible using the SUM function available in SPARQL but all my tests failed. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 13:08, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
 
Euh... les stats sont figées depuis quelques jours, y'a un soucis avec la base ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 22:50, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== A tool to add our files quickly to wikidata ==
 
 
I would like a way to push my contributions quickly on wikidata (so they are out there helping people asap).
 
 
Currently, I
 
* Look on my contributions in wikicommons
 
* find one that is unused
 
* search for the word I created in wikidata
 
* if it doesn't have a pronunciation
 
* click on the item
 
* choose add
 
* type "audio pronunciation"
 
* paste in my filename
 
* add "language of work or name" as "British English"
 
* REPEAT
 
 
Now this to me sounds like work a bot should be doing, or at least be a one-click action from our contribution page, is there any work being done to make something like this happen? [[User:Back ache|Back ache]] ([[User talk:Back ache|talk]]) 00:36, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
 
:Hi Back ache, [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot] automatically adds the new pronunciation on both items and lexemes on Wikidata. It does every night. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:42, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
:: Hi [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] it doesn't seem to be working for [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Back_ache my entries], I am having to do them manually :-( it'd be great if it were to do them automatically as I find adding them repetitive. [[User:Back ache|Back ache]] ([[User talk:Back ache|talk]]) 19:55, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== ALERT / ALERTE ==
 
 
Hello every one, 0x010C ask to say that the Endpoint is out due to a script crash, linguaLibreBot is out too. He is actually in moutains and we need to wait 3 days before the repairing. Thanks for waiting. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 22:45, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
 
:Sorry for the delay. I've just restarted the script that update Lingua Libre's Sparql endpoint, it should take approximately 2h to catch up. Lingua Libre Bot, as it uses the endpoint to get the new audio recordings, will also catch up and everything should be back around 06h (UTC). Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 01:01, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
 
----
 
 
Bonjour à Tous, j'ai reçu un message de 0x010C indiquant que le endpoint n'est plus alimenté car le script a dû crasher. LinguaLIbreBot est tombé aussi. Actuellement 0x010C est en montagne et ne récupèrera une connexion valable que dans 3 jours. Nous vous demandons de patientez jusque là pour qu'un rétablissement soit fait. Merci d'avance et désolé. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 22:45, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
 
:Désolé pour le temps de réaction. Je viens de relancer le script qui alimente l'endpoint Sparql de Lingua Libre, il devrait mettre environ 2h à ratraper le retard des jours passés. Une fois fait, Lingua Libre Bot (qui utilise l'endpoint comme source et qui donc ne pouvait fonctionner) repassera sur tous les enregistrements manquants. D'ici 06h (UTC) tout devrait être rentré dans l'ordre. Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 01:01, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
 
::Merci pour la réparation. C'est reparti pour un tour. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 05:41, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
 
::: Merciiii ! :D [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 08:50, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Add language category's ==
 
 
When uploading files, could it use the metadata to also add categories so as to help organise mediawiki for example, taking the metadata that says I am "British English" and adding "Category:British English pronunciation" to each of the files I upload? [[User:Back ache|Back ache]] ([[User talk:Back ache|talk]]) 22:08, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
 
:The easiest way I see to achieve that is to say that you speak "British English" and not simply "English". I created [[Q123270]] so you can use it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:50, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== 100 000 ==
 
[[File:LL-Q150 (fra)-Lepticed7-cybernétique.wav|thumb]]
 
 
A little less than a year after the launch of the beta version, we have done it. The goal of 100,000 audio recordings has been reached with [[Q123960|cybernétique]] of the user [[User:Lepticed7| Lepticed7]].
 
 
Well done, and congratulations to all! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 05:10, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 
:I took the opportunity to generate a bonus stat: 74% of files are used on at least one page of a Wikimedia project and 99,000 pages include at least one audio recording of Lingua Libre. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 05:33, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 
 
 
----
 
[[File:LL-Q150 (fra)-Lepticed7-cybernétique.wav|thumb]]
 
 
Un peu moins d'un an après le lancement de la béta, nous y sommes. La barre des 100 000 enregistrements vient d'être franchi ce matin avec [[Q123960|cybernétique]] de [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]].
 
 
Félicitation, et bravo à tous ! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 05:10, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 
:J'en ai profité pour générer une stat bonus : 74% des fichiers sont utilisés sur au moins une page d'un projet Wikimedia et 99 000 pages tous wikis confondus incluent au moins un enregistrement de Lingua Libre. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 05:33, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 
J'ai écrit un court message à diffuser : [[Lingualibre:Chat room/Annonce 100 000]] si vous pouvez passer derrière pour le traduire ce sera top ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 13:48, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Update lists of suggested words ==
 
 
Are the suggested lists are updated somehow? I recorded some word twice before a recognized that there is no marker or warning for words that have a soundfile already. What can I do? --[[User:Sebastian Wallroth|Sebastian Wallroth]] ([[User talk:Sebastian Wallroth|talk]]) 09:47, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 
:This is a well-known request. That is why I created this [[phab:T222541|task on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:08, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 
::Thank you, [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]]. --[[User:Sebastian Wallroth|Sebastian Wallroth]] ([[User talk:Sebastian Wallroth|talk]]) 17:59, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Feature request: Adding DEFAULTSORT ==
 
 
First: Lingua Libre is a great tool! Many thanks to the developers!
 
 
I have a proposal:
 
 
When a new audio-file is exported to Commons, it was great if this new file had a line with a DEFAULTSORT with the same content as the already existant parameter "transcription".
 
 
gruß, fcm. --[[User:Frank C. Müller|Frank C. Müller]] ([[User talk:Frank C. Müller|talk]]) 14:29, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
 
:I created [[phab:T222816|T222816]] to track this request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:42, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
 
 
:: Thankyou! gruß, fcm. --[[User:Frank C. Müller|Frank C. Müller]] ([[User talk:Frank C. Müller|talk]]) 18:51, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
 
:::Hi Frank C. Müller and Pamputt,
 
:::In fact, the [[:c:Template:Lingua Libre record|Template:Lingua Libre record]] on Commons (which is used by all the files uploaded using Lingua Libre) already add the transcription as a sortkey to the ''Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation-XXX''. If you take a category like [[:c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation-fra|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation-fra]], you can see that it is already sorted by alphabetical order of the transcription.
 
:::Best regards, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 07:43, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
 
 
:::: Ok, but if I take another Commons-category, e.g. [[:Commons:Category:Sounds by Frank C. Müller|Sounds by Frank C. Müller]], then all the LL-files without a "DEFAULTSORT" are listed under "LL". gruß, fcm. --[[User:Frank C. Müller|Frank C. Müller]] ([[User talk:Frank C. Müller|talk]]) 09:56, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
 
:::::Ok, I got your point. I've just [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=350004495 edited the template] on Commons so now all the audio recordings have a defaultsort :).
 
:::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 02:39, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
 
 
::::::Dear [[User:0x010C|0x010C]], thanks a lot for your change! But e.g. in [[:Commons:File:LL-Q188 (deu)-Frank C. Müller--ales.wav]] and [[:Commons:File:LL-Q188 (deu)-Frank C. Müller-Abduktor.wav]] I can see no DEFAULTSORT and in [[:Commons:Category:Sounds by Frank C. Müller]] they are still not sorted adequately under "-a" and "A" but under "LL". gruß, fcm. --[[User:Frank C. Müller|Frank C. Müller]] ([[User talk:Frank C. Müller|talk]]) 12:27, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
 
:::::::The ''defautsort'' will not be displayed in the wikicode of the file as it is included through the template. When you have checked just several hour after my edit you faced a common problem on wikis: it takes a lot of time for the server to refresh all pages after a heavily used templates like the [[:c:Template:Lingua Libre record|Template:Lingua Libre record]] is edited. If you [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:LL-Q188_(deu)-Frank_C._M%C3%BCller--ab.wav&action=info check it now], you can see that its working fine :).
 
:::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 01:55, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 
 
::::::::Hi [[User:0x010C|0x010C]], thanks for your explanations!
 
::::::::[[:Commons:File:LL-Q188 (deu)-Frank C. Müller--ab.wav|LL-Q188 (deu)-Frank C. Müller-'''-ab'''.wav]] now is adequately sorted and in the Page information the Default sort key is indicated correctly as "-ab".
 
::::::::But right now e.g. [[:Commons:File:LL-Q188 (deu)-Frank C. Müller--isier.wav|LL-Q188 (deu)-Frank C. Müller-'''-isier'''.wav]] and [[:Commons:File:LL-Q188 (deu)-Frank C. Müller-Abdeckmaterial.wav|LL-Q188 (deu)-Frank C. Müller-'''Abdeckmaterial'''.wav]] both are sorted under "LL" and their Default sort key in the Page information is still wrong.
 
::::::::So I shall wait another day and then have a look once more.
 
::::::::gruß, fcm. --[[User:Frank C. Müller|Frank C. Müller]] ([[User talk:Frank C. Müller|talk]]) 08:24, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 
:::::::::If you want to force Commons to update the cache, you can do a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Purge#Null_edit null edit] (maybe a bot exists that can do that on all files?); otherwise we just have to wait... — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 09:00, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 
 
::::::::::So, now I got them all. Thanks a lot! gruß, fcm. --[[User:Frank C. Müller|Frank C. Müller]] ([[User talk:Frank C. Müller|talk]]) 10:00, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Technical news - May 2019 ==
 
 
Hi all,
 
 
This is the first edition of the technical news, a newsletter posted here on the Chat Room each month starting today to keep you informed of what's going on on the tech side.
 
 
;Recent changes
 
[[File:Lingua Libre screenshot - Wikimedia category word generator.png|thumb|The new ''Exclude words you have already recorded'' option|upright=1.4]]
 
A new version of the RecordWizard has just been released. Among new translations and a bunch of small code rewriting, a new major feature has appeared. It is now possible to exclude automatically all words you have already recorded when you prepare a list of words for a recording session. To do so, a new option has appeared inside each word list generator to enable (by default) or disable the feature, see screenshot. A button bellow the list do the same job for words typed manually. It definitely was the number 1 requested feature, you can test it right now and give me some feedbacks!
 
 
;Future changes
 
* A module that allows [[:meta:User:Lingua Libre Bot|Lingua Libre Bot]] to add the audio recordings made with Lingua Libre to the English Wiktionary is at it's final step of development and will be tested in the coming weeks.
 
* Thanks to a financial support from Wikimedia France, a new video recording studio will soon appear to record sign languages!
 
* A new gadget will allow administrator to mass edit items of audio recordings (to fix a mistake for example).
 
 
Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 10:41, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 
:Thank you 0x010C for these nice new features, especially the one that allows not to record again a word that we have already recorded. About the "module to connect Lingua Libre Bot to the English Wiktionary", I do not understand what does it mean. What is the goal of this module? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 13:23, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 
::It will allow [[:meta:User:Lingua Libre Bot|Lingua Libre Bot]] to add the audio recordings made with Lingua Libre on the English Wiktionary, as it does on the French or Occitan one. ;). — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 20:56, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 
:Thank you [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']]. I love the feature to avoid duplicate recordings! --[[User:Sebastian Wallroth|Sebastian Wallroth]] ([[User talk:Sebastian Wallroth|talk]]) 06:42, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
 
 
: I really love the new option, it works great! It made things a lot easier. Would it be possible to allow to also exclude all words spoken by any editor? So that it's easier to work in a team on a project with the aim to have spoken all words in some area collectively. -- [[User:MichaelSchoenitzer|MichaelSchoenitzer]] ([[User talk:MichaelSchoenitzer|talk]]) 14:42, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
 
::@MichaelSchoenitzer, could you give an example of which words do you want do exclude and for which reason? It would make easier to understand your request because I do not understand it for now. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:42, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
 
:::If I understood correctly, he wants a new option to be able to exclude <u>all</u> words that have already been recorded, in complement of the actual option that allow a user to exclude all words that <u>he/she</u> has already recorded.
 
:::For example, I've recorded the word ''kayak'' in French, so with the current excluding setting this word wont show up anymore to me, but it can show up to you as you haven't recorded it.
 
:::As I see it, it could help increase the number of distinct words recorded in languages with a small number of speakers, by avoiding concentrating the small number of volunteers on words already recorded.
 
:::This is totally doable (and pretty easy now), the only concern I have is about the UI part. I have no idea on how to add this option without the interface becoming too messy... If someone has a good idea, a mookup would help me a lot to create this feature.
 
:::— [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 02:29, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 
::::Thanks for the exaplanation. It makes sense. About the UI, it is indeed tricky. What about adding a "Lingua Libre" tab in [[Special:Preferences]] that allow to set all the main preferences (this one and others)? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 05:52, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Actualités technique - mai 2019 ==
 
 
Bonjour à tous,
 
 
Ceci est la première édition des actualités technique de Lingua Libre, une infolettre mensuelle pour vous tenir informé régulièrement sur ce qu'il se passe dans l'arrière boutique. Bonne lecture.
 
 
;Nouveautés du moi
 
[[File:Lingua Libre screenshot - Wikimedia category word generator.png|thumb|La nouvelle option ''Exclure les mots que vous avez déjà enregistré'' en image|upright=1.4]]
 
Une nouvelle version du RecordWizard vient juste d'être publié. Outre de nouvelles traductions et une séries de petites réécriture de code (pour préparer des changements futurs), une fonctionnalité majeure à été introduite. C'est la possibilité d'exclure automatiquement tous les mots que vous avez déjà enregistrés par le passé lorsque vous préparer une liste de mots. Pour ce faire, une nouvelle option est apparue dans chaque générateur de liste pour activer ou désactiver cette fonctionnalité, cf. la capture d'écran ci-contre. Un bouton sous la liste permet de faire de même pour les mots ajoutés manuellement.<br>C'était la fonctionnalité la plus demandée depuis le lancement de Lingua Libre, vous pouvez à présent la tester et me partager vos retours à son sujet !
 
 
;Changements à venir
 
* un module permettant à [[:meta:User:Lingua Libre Bot|Lingua Libre Bot]] d'ajouter les enregistrements audio produits ici sur le Wiktionnaire anglophone est en phase finale de développement et sera testé dans les semaines à venir.
 
* Grace au soutient de Wikimédia France, un nouveau studio d'enregistrement vidéo va bientôt apparaître dans le RecordWizard pour enregistrer des langues des signes !
 
* un nouveau gadget permettra bientôt aux administrateur d'éditer les items d'enregistrement audio en masse (pour corriger des erreurs par exemple).
 
 
Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 00:44, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
 
: Merci pour ces actus ! C'est une superbe fonctionnalité que de pouvoir exclure les mots déjà enregistrés. Pressé de voir ce que ça donnera pour la LDS ! <span style="color: #00A99D;">[[User:GrandCelinien|Grand]]Celinien</span> ([[User_talk:GrandCelinien|talk]]) 07:32, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Feature request: ask to reuse existing identical audio if available (part 2) ==
 
 
Lingua Libre bot seems to work like that: getting all forms of a lexeme, delete duplicate entries, add recorded file to one of the duplicates.
 
 
Example: There is a recording for the German word "Bildung": [[:File:LL-Q188 (deu)-Sebastian Wallroth-Bildung.wav]]. Lingua Libre bot added the file to the lexeme form [[Wikidata:Lexeme:L11818#F4|L11818-F4]]. But it would also fit to [[Wikidata:Lexeme:L11818#F1|L11818-F1]], [[Wikidata:Lexeme:L11818#F2|L11818-F2]], [[Wikidata:Lexeme:L11818#F3|L11818-F3]].
 
 
I would suggest not to delete the duplicates, but to add the recorded file to all of them.
 
 
P. S. I tried a workaround by adding the files to the other lexeme forms with [https://tools.wmflabs.org/quickstatements/#/ Quick Statements], but Quick Statements cannot access lexeme forms yet. --[[User:Sebastian Wallroth|Sebastian Wallroth]] ([[User talk:Sebastian Wallroth|talk]]) 06:20, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
 
:I created [[phab:T224312|T224312]] to track this request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:44, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Feature request: add language qualifier to lexeme form pronunciation audio statement ==
 
 
Let Lingua Libre bot in Wikidata add the qualifier P407 (language of work or name) to the statement P443 (pronunciation audio).
 
 
Example: In the lexeme form box of https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Lexeme:L11822#F2 there is a question mark sign indicating a problem. The popup message claims: "This pronunciation audio statement is missing a qualifier language of work or name."
 
 
--[[User:Sebastian Wallroth|Sebastian Wallroth]] ([[User talk:Sebastian Wallroth|talk]]) 06:20, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
 
:I created [[phab:T224312|T224312]] to track this request (I opened only one ticket for both feature requests). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Import Shtooka audios ? ==
 
[[:w:fr:Shtooka|fr:Shtooka]], le parent direct de LinguaLibre, dispose d'une collection de 120,000+ audios ([[file:Farm-Fresh_file_extension_zip.png|16px|link=http://shtooka.net/download.php]] [[file:Farm-Fresh_file_extension_zip.png|16px|link=https://packs.shtooka.net]]). Is there a plan to import these 120,000+ audios into LinguaLibre ? Since it is a non trivial migration (cf meta data), I'am considering to apply for a microfi or grants in order to pay a dev to do it. Do we have anyone with experience with this task ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:05, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
 
: Elle a déjà été importée sur commons, non ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 21:26, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
 
::Tout ? Au même format que LL ? En tout cas on ne les voit pas dans https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/, c'est domage. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
 
::Il nous faut ces jeux de données dans le datasets, et manipulable par les bots LinguaLibre. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:54, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
 
::: Sûrement pas ! Mais les fichiers sons sont là depuis longtemps par contre il me semble. Il faut faire matcher les deux jeux de données. {{clin}} [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 19:42, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
 
::::Bonsoir Yug,
 
::::Attends deux secondes, tu brûle quelques étapes là. Avant de faire un micro-fi ou de recruter quelqu'un, il y a des questions à se poser, genre : "Est-ce pertinent ?" ; "Est-ce souhaitable ?" "Est-ce que les serveurs supporteront un quasi doublement en peu de temps ?" ; "Est-ce vraiment prioritaire actuellement ?" ; "Quitte à chercher des sous, est-ce qu'ils ne seraient pas mieux utilisés à développer autre chose ?" ; "Est-ce pertinent ?".
 
::::Tu dis, je cite, qu'« Il nous faut ces jeux de données ». Ok mais, tu pourrais développer un peu ? Car en vrai, je ne vois personnellement aucune raison à l'heure actuelle (si ce n'est d’accroître artificiellement le compteurs d'enregistrements et plomber pour de bon l'endpoint Sparql) de faire un tel import. Les fichiers sont déjà sur Commons pour la plupart, importé là-bas et utilisé sur de nombreux projets depuis des années.
 
::::Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:06, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Actualités technique - juin 2019 ==
 
(an English translation will come soon)
 
 
Bonjour à tous,
 
 
; Nouveautés du mois
 
* Le gros changement de ce début juin, c'est le support des langues des signes sur Lingua Libre. Dorénavant, celles-ci peuvent être sélectionné comme n'importe quel autre langue, auquel cas vous accéderez au nouveau studio d'enregistrement vidéo. Celui-ci fonctionne sensiblement de la même façon que l'enregistreur audio, au détail près que la découpe des enregistrements se fait au bout d'une durée prédéfini.
 
:Attention, une limitation technique issue de MediaWiki limite actuellement la prévisualisation aux vidéos de 4s ou moins, ceci sera changé dans le futur (cf [[phab:T97539|T97539]]).
 
* L'interface de la dernière étape du RecordWizard a changé pour éviter de devoir faire défiller longuement la page. C'est un premier pas qui sera suivi d'autres modifications dans le futur. Si vous avez des propositions, n'hésitez pas à me les faire parvenir !
 
* Une nouvelle option permet de limiter le nombre de mots récupérés en utilisant le générateur ''Catéggories Wikimédia''. Cela permet de travailler avec certaines catégories du Wiktionnaire qui peuvent contenir plusieurs dizaines de milliers d'entrées.
 
* Un bug faisait que Lingua Libre Bot supprimait des caractères de retour à la ligne dans certains rare cas sur le Wiktionnaire francophone. Cela a été fixé.
 
* Les enregistrements sur Commons sont dorénavent catégorisé par utilisateur, en plus de la catégorisation par langue. Vous pouvez toutes les retrouver dans la catégorie mère [[:c:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by user]].
 
 
; Changements à venir
 
* Il sera bientôt possible de modifier les paramètres internes du studio d'enregistrement audio, par exemple la durée d'un silence entre deux mots.
 
* Les changements annoncé le mois passé ont pris du retard mais sont toujours en développement.
 
:Merci beaucoup 0x010C pour tous ces nouveaux développements, en particulier pour la possibilité d'ajouter des mots en langue des signes. Ca fait vraiment plaisir à voir. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 04:59, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
 
:: Génial ! Merci pour cette évolution. Je communique très rapidement sur la possibilité d'enregistrer des langues des signes !! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 23:04, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Replace “Place of residence” with something more relevant, or don't automatically import on Wiktionary? ==
 
 
Hi! Great project!
 
 
A little suggestion: I’m French, and after 25+ years of living in France, I happen to have been living in Copenhagen for the past two years, which is completely irrelevant concerning the variant of the French language I use. Still, when LinguaLibre asked me for my “Place of residence”, I said “Denmark”. I recorded [[:File:LL-Q150 (fra)-Nclm-tentative.wav|one word]] as a test a few days ago. Now the recording has been automatically added to [[:fr:wiktionary:tentative|its corresponding Wiktionary entry]] with the label “Royaume du Danemark (Danemark)”, which is quite absurd and is giving a confusing information to the readers of Wiktionary. I would suggest removing “Place of residence”, or replacing it with “Home country” or “Place where you mainly learned your language” or something similar (that said, none of these two fit everyone’s life story either).
 
 
In addition, I wonder if the automatic upload to Wiktionary should happen. What if I record some words in English? (my browser is set in English so I was automatically going to record words in English before I realised it didn’t make much sense). I’m not sure entries from ”English for France” are that relevant on Wiktionary. Maybe it should only automatically upload clips from the countries that have this particular language as an official language (from Wikidata information)? On top of that, my recording was not that great (I have to set up my microphone better or remove the noise in post-prod), so I wonder if uploading many mediocre clips without listening to them “manually” first might diminish the quality of the dictionary.
 
 
[[User:Nclm|Nclm]] ([[User talk:Nclm|talk]]) 14:36, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
 
:Salut Nclm. I opened a [[phab:T227959|Phabricator ticket]] in order to track your request. To me, it makes sense that "Place of residence" is probably not the best wording. So it is needed to think about that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== TypeError: Cannot read property 'indexOf' of undefined ==
 
 
Bonjour, Lorsque je souhaite importer une liste de mot depuis une catégorie du Wiktionnaire, ce message d'erreur d'affiche et m'empêche d'importer la liste.
 
 
Savez-vous à quoi c'est dû et comment le régler ?
 
 
 
Hello, When I want to import a list of words from a category of the French Wiktionnary, this error message pops and prevents me from to import the list.
 
 
Do you know where it comes from, and how to work it out ?
 
 
[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] ([[User talk:WikiLucas00|talk]]) 22:42, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
 
:Bonjour WikiLucas00, je n'arrive pas à reproduire. Quelle catégorie essaies-tu d'importer ? Quel est ton navigateur ainsi que sa version ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:12, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Wikimag ==
 
 
Bonjour,
 
 
Dans le Wikimag publié demain, la section “Coups de Coeurs” [https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipédia:Wikimag/2019/27#coeurs présente] le projet. Vous pouvez y apporter les modifications que vous souhaitez.
 
 
Cordialement, [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 16:34, 7 July 2019 (UTC).
 
 
== Enquête annuelle de Wikimédia France ==
 
 
Bonjour à toutes et tous,
 
 
Chaque année, Wikimédia France souhaite donner la parole à l'ensemble de la communauté sur les grandes orientations choisies par l'association. De même, si vous avez des idées, des projets contributifs et que vous souhaitez ou avez besoin du soutien de Wikimédia France, n'hésitez pas à remplir ce [https://framaforms.org/enquete-annuelle-wikimedia-france-2019-1562249087 formulaire], nous vous recontacterons.
 
 
L'ensemble de l'équipe salariée est à votre disposition,
 
 
Je vous souhaite un bel été,
 
 
[[User:Rémy Gerbet WMFr|Rémy Gerbet WMFr]] ([[User talk:Rémy Gerbet WMFr|talk]]) 14:17, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Some issues with the Record Wizard ==
 
 
Upon recently recording a few words, I noticed some issues with the Record Wizard:
 
 
# The "Enregistrer plus de mots" (fr) button works erratically. It would sometimes bring you back to the expected step of the Record Wizard, yet most of the time it'll do nothing.
 
# Upon verifying the records that were just made (right before smashing that "upload" button :D), going to the previous step would make the "mic" button ineffective. In order to re-record the same word, you need to go back to the word list and re-add the word.
 
 
These issues make the UX quite frustrating, although they are not preventing any further work with the website.
 
 
--[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:05, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
 
:Bonjour Poslovitch, concernant le premier probleme, il y a deja un [[phab:T218371|ticket ouvert]] sur Phabricator. Si 0x010C passe dans le coin, est ce que tu pourrais nous dire ce qu'on pourrait faire (debogueur firefox ou autre ?) pour tenter d'apporter de sinformations utiles a la resolution de ce probleme ?
 
:Pour le deuxieme soucis, je ne crois pas qu'il y ait encore de ticket pour suivre ce soucis. J'ouvrirai un ticket un peu plus tard (si tu ne le fais pas avant). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:49, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
 
:A propos du probleme de micro, j'ai cree [[phab:T229299|T229299]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 02:40, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
 
::Salut Poslovitch, salut Pamputt,
 
::Merci à vous deux pour ces retours. Il n'y a pas besoin d'autres infos, celles déjà présentes permettent de reproduire facilement ces deux bugs. Cependant (vous l'aurez sans doutes déjà remarqué), je ne suis pas des plus disponible ces temps-ci à cause de mon travail saisonnier, un fix de ma part n'est pas pour demain :/.
 
::Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 06:01, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Proposition d'ajout de fonctionnalité ==
 
 
Bonjour,
 
 
L'option "Exclure les mots que vous avez déjà enregistrés" est très utile et permet d'économiser beaucoup de temps et d'énergie.
 
 
Serait-il possible d'inclure une option similaire dans la prochaine version, qui permettrait d''''exclure les mots déjà enregistrés par un autre contributeur LinguaLibre''' ?
 
 
Il est évidemment intéressant d'avoir pour un même mot plusieurs enregistrements de locuteurs différents (et c'est même le but final). Cependant, on peut aussi se pencher sur la possibilité de prioriser dans un premier temps les entrées n'ayant encore aucun enregistrement, ce qui permettrait de fournir au moins un enregistrement audio sur un maximum d'entrées du Wiktionnaire, et d'éviter aux contributeurs de se concentrer sur les mêmes mots que les autres. Cela donnerait la possibilité de travailler "en équipe" plutôt que chacun dans son coin ; si l'on décide par exemple de s'attaquer à la "Catégorie:Verbes en français" (34 399 pages), on peut fournir à tous les termes un enregistrement très rapidement en évitant d'enregistrer les mêmes entrées que les autres contributeurs. Une fois qu'une majorité d'entrées possède au moins un enregistrement, on peut continuer à enregistrer des mots sans regarder s'ils ont déjà été prononcés.
 
 
Évidemment, il ne s'agirait que d'une option pour les contributeurs intéressés par ce mode de travail, et personne ne serait obligé de l'utiliser.
 
 
 
Qu'en pensez-vous ? <small>prévenez-moi si je ne suis pas clair!</small>
 
 
[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] ([[User talk:WikiLucas00|talk]]) 15:28, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
 
:Salut WikiLucas00, je viens d'ouvrir un [[phab:T231559|ticket]] sur Phabricator pour garder une trace de ta proposition. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:38, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 
::Salut Pamputt, merci beaucoup ! [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] ([[User talk:WikiLucas00|talk]]) 23:20, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Nouveau point de contact pour Lingua Libre ==
 
 
[English below]
 
 
Bonjour à tous,
 
 
Je m'appelle Emma, je suis étudiante et depuis août 2019, je travaille à Wikimédia France sur le projet Lingua Libre dans le cadre d'un service civique.
 
 
Si vous avez des questions, suggestions, projets à proposer, ou si souhaitez simplement discuter de Lingua Libre, votre expérience avec l'outil et comment vous souhaiteriez qu'il évolue à l'avenir, n'hésitez surtout pas à m'écrire. Mon adresse mail est emma[point]vadillo[at]wikimedia[point]fr
 
 
Pour ceux qui seront présents à la WikiConvention francophone la semaine prochaine, ce sera certainement une première occasion pour nous rencontrer et peut-être organiser une réunion de discussion ou un atelier d'enregistrement au cours des périodes de contribution libre.
 
 
A bientôt!
 
 
Hello everyone,
 
 
My name is Emma, I am a student and work for Wikimedia France since August 2019 on the Lingua Libre project.
 
 
If you have questions, ideas, projects to suggest, or wish simply to discuss about Lingua Libre, your experience with the tool and how you would like it to evolve in the future, do not hesitate to write to me on emma[point]vadillo[at]wikimedia[point]fr
 
 
Cheers
 
 
[[User:eavqwiki|eavqwiki]] ([[User talk:eavqwiki|eavqwiki]])
 
:Bonjour Emma, tout d'abord bienvenue à Wikimedia France et dans le monde merveilleux de Lingua Libre. Est ce que tu peux nous en dire davantage sur ton rôle dans le cadre de cette mission ; quel sera ton travail au jour le jour ? Au plaisir de te croiser à la wikiconvention :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:34, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 
::[English below]
 
::Bonjour Pamputt, déjà merci à toi et Mahuton pour la présentation de Lingua Libre à la wikiconvention francophone :)
 
::Et merci à tout le monde présent ici pour faire grandir ce projet!
 
::Je suis en charge de la stratégie de Lingua Libre. Wikimédia France réfléchit à la direction que peut prendre Lingua Libre dans l'objectif d'oraliser les projets Wikimedia. Personnellement je suis très attachée à la diversité culturelle et linguistique et je pense que wikimedia peut participer à la préserver dans l'espace numérique à travers Lingua Libre.
 
::Pour cette raison, ça m'aiderait beaucoup si vous remplissiez cette enquête (10 questions) sur votre utilisation de Lingua Libre: https://framaforms.org/enquete-lingua-libre-1569573296 merci d'avance!
 
::J'aimerais aussi avoir les retours plus détaillés de celles et ceux d'entre vous qui pourraient me faire part plus longuement de leur expérience avec l'outil afin de le développer et l'améliorer :) Des intéressé(e)(s)?
 
::PS is there a need for English translation?
 
::Hello Pamputt, thank you and Mahuton for the Lingua Libre presentation at the wikiconvention francophone
 
::And thank you to everyone having made this project grow!
 
::I am in charge of the strategy for Lingua Libre. Wikimedia France is reflecting on the role Lingua Libre could play in the attempt to make wikimedia projects oral. Personally I care a great deal about cultural and linguistic diversity and I think that Wikimedia can take part in preserving it on the web through Lingua Libre.
 
::Therefore, it would be very helpful if you would fill in this survey (10 questions) on your use of Lingua Libre: https://framaforms.org/enquete-lingua-libre-1569573296 thank you in advance!
 
::I'm also looking to have more detailed feedback from those of you willing to share more at length their experience on Lingua Libre with me in order to improve it :) Anyone interested?
 
::[[User:eavqwiki|eavqwiki]] ([[User talk:eavqwiki|eavqwiki]]) 11:30, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 
:::Hi eavqwiki, yes I think you should translate this message into English because we have "a lot" of non-French speaking people contributing to Lingua Libre. Yet, your survey is only in French for now, so I let you see. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:54, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 
::::[English below] C'est noté j'ai traduit le questionnaire qui est disponible toujours sur le même lien. https://framaforms.org/enquete-lingua-libre-1569573296
 
::::Sure, the survey is now translated into English and available on the same link. https://framaforms.org/enquete-lingua-libre-1569573296
 
::::[[User:eavqwiki|eavqwiki]] ([[User talk:eavqwiki|eavqwiki]]) 12:10, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
 
::::: Hello, you might post this on the Bistro, on Wikipedia. Maybe it would bring new users ! :) I'm talking about the french one, but you could try on the village pump. Welcome ! <span style="color: #00A99D;">[[User:GrandCelinien|Grand]]Celinien</span> ([[User_talk:GrandCelinien|talk]]) 08:50, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Adding sounds to the pronunciation claim in Wikidata ==
 
 
Recently ru-wiktionary was mass-ported to Wikidata Lexemes (nouns only for now).  As part of that massive effort, the community established a hopefully better way to store pronunciations in lexemes - [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P7243 pronunciation property (P7243)] (~100,000 usages). See [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property_talk:P7243 talk page] for docs, and a great [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/pronunciation discussion] (where [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] has raised a number of good points).
 
 
Could this tool be adapted to create such pronunciations?
 
 
The tool would look for any forms with pronunciation claim, but without a sound file, and offer to record it. Here's a Russian word showing how pronunciation is stored: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Lexeme:L63567#F1
 
 
Thank you for such an awesome tool!
 
--[[User:Yurik|Yurik]] ([[User talk:Yurik|talk]]) 03:01, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 
:Hi Yurik. There is already a [[phab:T224312|Phabricator task]] asking to improve the LinguaLibre code for Wikidata. I only add a link to this post in order to keep track. Anyway, if you have time, you may send a pull request to apply this change; all the code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot Github]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:36, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 
::We can get random words from Wikidata, but it isn't obvious how to upload them.~Is this issue exactly about that? -[[User:Theklan|Theklan]] ([[User talk:Theklan|talk]]) 16:48, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Vote for a new logo and interface for Lingua Libre ==
 
 
(English below)
 
Bonjour,
 
Vous pouvez voir les propositions de logo et maquettes graphiques pour Lingua Libre ici : [[phab:T240552|T240552]]
 
Donnez-nous vos retours et votez pour garder le logo ou adopter la proposition #1, #2 ou #3 ici : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/Maquettes_et_logo_Lingua_Libre
 
 
Hello,
 
You can view the proposals for a new logo and interface for Lingua Libre here: [[phab:T240552|T240552]]
 
Please give feedback and vote whether you prefer keeping the logo, or adopting the proposal #1, #2 or #3 here: https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/Maquettes_et_logo_Lingua_Libre
 
-- [[User:eavqwiki|eavqwiki]] ([[User talk:eavqwiki|eavqwiki]]) 10:19, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
 
 
:(English below) Mise à jour des maquettes : n'hésitez pas à aller refaire un tour sur Phabricator et donner votre avis sur les dernières propositions - surtout le record wizard et le logo !
 
:The proposals were updated : don't hesitate to visit Phabricator once more and give your opinion on the last suggestions - especially the record wizard and the logo!
 
:-- [[User:eavqwiki|eavqwiki]] ([[User talk:eavqwiki|eavqwiki]]) 04:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
 
 
== Erreur de langue d'enregistrement ==
 
 
Bonjour,
 
 
Je viens de m'apercevoir d'une erreur de ma part concernant la langue de mes 1111 derniers enregistrements (en français mais annoncés comme du finnois): [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?target=WikiLucas00&namespace=all&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=2019-12-01&end=2019-12-20&limit=11120&title=Special%3AContributions].
 
 
Pouvez-vous m'aider à réparer ça s'il vous plaît ? Merci beaucoup !
 
 
 
Hello,
 
 
I made a mistake which I just noticed, related to the language code of my last 1111 recordings ([https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?target=WikiLucas00&namespace=all&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=2019-12-01&end=2019-12-20&limit=11120&title=Special%3AContributions]). They are recorded in French, but I chose a wrong language (Finnish) in the Record Wizard. Can you help me to fix them?
 
 
Thank you very much!
 
 
— [[Utilisateur:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]] [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 12:02, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 
:Salut Wikilucas,
 
:Tu peux les lister sur cette page [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items]], je les corrigerais en masse une fois que j'aurais fini l'outil d'édition en masse (promis il arrivera un jour).
 
:— [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:43, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
 

Revision as of 18:32, 27 September 2020


Chatroom FAQ

  • How to add missing languages ?
    • Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's iso-639-3 code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see Help:Add a new language.
  • How to archive sections which have been answered ?
    • After reviewing the section, add `{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018.
  • How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?
  • What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?

Custom Commons filename

Check-green.svg Done

Sorry if this is obvious.

How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?

For example File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav should ideally be named File:En-au-phonate.ogg. Regards --Commander Keane (talk) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. Pamputt (talk) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--Commander Keane (talk) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
@Commander Keane a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an accent. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with AU, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via mw:API, possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. Yug (talk) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
See mw:API:Edit and mw:API:Get for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. Yug (talk) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more

Dear all,

I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.

For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre

Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :


- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.


- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :

1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website

2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians

3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently

4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible


For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.

In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.


Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6

and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i

you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up


Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...

One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).

Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)

Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada

concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia

Bonjour à toutes et à tous,
Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le dashboard pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.
Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/
Bon courage et amusez-vous bien. --Adélaïde Calais WMFr (talk) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Record Wizard translation

Check-green.svg Done @0x010C I assume this issue is closed. Yug (talk) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. Higa4 (talk) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. 0x010C certainly knows. Pamputt (talk) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. Higa4 (talk) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — 0x010C ~talk~ 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Premier essai

J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam

Les innévitables questions :

  • Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?
  • J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?
  • Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?

En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --Touam (talk) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions
  • Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?
C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par Lingua Libre Bot.
  • J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?
Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de la catégorie me concernant.
  • Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?
Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.
Pamputt (talk) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --Touam (talk) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? Pamputt (talk) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --Touam (talk) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --Touam (talk) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? Pamputt (talk) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --Touam (talk) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? Pamputt (talk) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Bonjour,
Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.
Cordialement, — 0x010C ~talk~ 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --Touam (talk) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. Pamputt (talk) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? (it’s not a bug, it’s a feature sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --Touam (talk) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'uploadeur. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). Pamputt (talk) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Compilation de textes

Check-green.svg Done

Bonjour,

Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?

AirSThib (talk) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).

Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? Pamputt (talk) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Bonjour @Pamputt En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. AirSThib (talk), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).
Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert un ticket sur Phabricator pour en garder trace. Pamputt (talk) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
@AirSThib Did Pamputt answered your question ? Yug (talk) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

One word, one language, one page

The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.

A possible structure would be:

  • /fr/ would be the home page for French words
  • /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"
  • /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs

A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:

  • /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345
  • /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345


The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.

Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.

In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.

Examples from other sites

Shtooka

Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.

Lingopolo

My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio

Forvo

https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.

Pixabay

https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops

Hi Rugops. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a a Phabricator ticket to think more about your ideas. Pamputt (talk) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
Agree. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.
It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.
One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and Benevolent dictator's drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.
As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) Yug (talk) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined

Bonjour, tout le monde.

Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?

LoquaxFR (talk) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Bonjour,
Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton Retirer les mots déjà enregistré.
Désolé pour le problème :/.
Cordialement — 0x010C ~talk~ 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !
LoquaxFR (talk) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Wikidata

Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. Rodelar (talk) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations.
About Wikidata, I added your request on this Phabricator ticket in order to remember it.
To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options
  1. the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available here. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about oc Wiktionary and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".
  2. the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The T212843 ticket follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.
Cheers Pamputt (talk) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

speedy et / ou delete

Bonjour,
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —Eihel (talk) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard

Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. Pamputt (talk) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. Yug (talk) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX

Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) Yug (talk) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

CSS

  • Check-green.svg Done CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: h2 { margin-top: 1em; })
    I guess we should edit MediaWiki:Common.css to modify that. Pamputt (talk) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
    The best would to make a pull request on the skin's git repository. — 0x010C ~talk~ 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.
    Which icon are you talking about? Pamputt (talk) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
    MediaWiki:Common.css now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks Pamputt & 0x ;) Yug (talk) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
    Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg <- this icon, which we previously CSS integrated. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. Yug (talk) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
    @Yug This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — 0x010C ~talk~ 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Content

  • Check-green.svg Done LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages (edit SPARQL query)- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.
    Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — 0x010C ~talk~ 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia

Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (details below)

Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one.

a. Multiple recordings of the same word

Check-green.svg Done (part of a group of 4 sections)

However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now) e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".

  • Thanks for your recordings Psubhashish.
    About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.
    Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --Subhashish Panigrahi (talk) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
    Psubhashish, I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? Pamputt (talk) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
    It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --Subhashish Panigrahi (talk) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
    Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. Pamputt (talk) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
    @Psubhashish Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?
    Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some heteronym, you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".
    Best regards — 0x010C ~talk~ 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

b. Custom-categorization:

Check-green.svg Done (part of a group of 4 sections)

There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.

  • About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in T201135.
    Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --Subhashish Panigrahi (talk) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
    This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. Pamputt (talk) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
    @Psubhashish This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — 0x010C ~talk~ 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
    @Pamputt & Psubhashish a way to go would be to have a bot which use mw:API:Edit on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. Yug (talk) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)

c. Custom metadata parameters:

Check-green.svg Done (part of a group of 4 sections)

There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --Subhashish Panigrahi (talk) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

  • Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.
    Pamputt (talk) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
    I have added this to Phrabricator (T254241). --Subhashish (talk) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
    See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --Subhashish (talk)

d. Standardized naming:

Check-green.svg Done (part of a group of 4 sections)

Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD" format e.g. if the word "color" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --Subhashish (talk)

It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe Lyokoï or Noé could say more about this point. Pamputt (talk) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi @Psubhashish
We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.
  • The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using tricks like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.
  • Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is Q7707309 ;).
By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a consistent naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can safely override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.
(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in standard(?) Odia (WD:Q33810 = LL:Odia (Q336)) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:Q4850727 = LL:Baleswari Oriya (Q322719)), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)
The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/
Best regards — 0x010C ~talk~ 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on Phabricator to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). Pamputt (talk) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Pamputt :) Yug (talk) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — 0x010C ~talk~ 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Bugs

Enregistrements accélérés

Bonjour, Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : coq (Q332977) inadapté (Q332978) participer (Q332979) enfer (Q332980) plausible (Q332981) PHP (Q332982).

PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.

DSwissK (talk) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Salut DSwissK, problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un ticket sur Phabricator à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert un autre à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. Pamputt (talk) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
@DSwissK & Pamputt I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from Luilui6666 for Cantonese, today. Yug (talk) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Contributions > Example (corrupted): Q338365 Yug (talk) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? Yug (talk) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
@Yug We can list such items here. Pamputt (talk) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

ratelimited

Check-green.svg Done See LinguaLibre:User rights, T260649, T245214, Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits, mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits. Test your ratelimit : here.

Luilui6666 also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning

[RequestQueue] Reject ratelimited
Object:
 *: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."
 code:"ratelimited"
 info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...

I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? Yug (talk) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

I do not know either. You should open a Phabricator ticket about this issue. Pamputt (talk) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
@Luilui6666 @Yug @Pamputt This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — WikiLucas (🖋️) 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened T260649 to keep track. Pamputt (talk) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
@Pamputt, WikiLucas00, & 0x010C the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? Yug (talk) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
@Pamputt I searched in the following without success:
I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. Yug (talk) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
@Pamputt Found it in Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits !
Rate limits

Normal users on Commons are rate limited to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted image-reviewer, patroller, or autopatrolled status have a ratelimit of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at COM:RFR.

It mentions mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits. This "380 uploads" match the "around 400 uploads" described by User:Luilui6666. Yug (talk) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan

Bonjour, J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français.

  • Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :

Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812

  • Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :

Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198 Guilhelma

J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au ticket Phabricator qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. Pamputt (talk) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
@Guilhelma , is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? Yug (talk) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
@Guilhelma , est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? Yug (talk) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Ajouter la langue Mozabite

Check-green.svg Done

Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --Arha06 (talk) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

@Arha06 bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le mozabite sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. Pamputt (talk) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Adding list from Wikidata

Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks Jason.nlw (talk) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Jason.nlw, as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a feature request on Phabricator. Pamputt (talk) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
  • The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta) (কথা) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Adding list into RecordWizard

Check-green.svg Done

Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? Julien Baley (talk) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Julien, it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into List:Fra/Julien Baley (for example); each word is separated by #. Pamputt (talk) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? Julien Baley (talk) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples here. Pamputt (talk) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
@Julien Baley please browse Help:Main ;) Yug (talk) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Datasets out of date

Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? Julien Baley (talk) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a Phabricator ticket about this issue. Pamputt (talk) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

How much to record at once?

Check-green.svg Done

Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? Julien Baley (talk) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

@Julien Baley I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. Pamputt (talk) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
@Julien Baley The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. Yug (talk) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. Yug (talk) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.
Checking on this Commons API, I can see that User:Titodutta has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while user:Julien Baley is still a new user within initial groups [ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ] which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons.
@Julien Baley , you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with this request. Yug (talk) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Pages translation

I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see Special:ListGroupRights). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like this in the future? — WikiLucas (🖋️) 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

@WikiLucas00 indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on Phabricator. About, LinguaLibre:Requests for rights, the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D Pamputt (talk) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
@Pamputt I created a task on Phabricator. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — WikiLucas (🖋️) 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

New admins ?

See also Special:ListUsers/sysop

@Pamputt, WikiLucas00, Titodutta, & Lyokoï I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) Yug (talk) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Checking over Special:ListUsers/sysop I also notice :
  • Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. Not enough. We need at least 3 active bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.
  • Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? Yug (talk) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
@Yug I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). Pamputt (talk) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Userrights

Check-green.svg Done
On user rights, I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates". (We depend on Commons)
@Titodutta As I understand it we dependent upon Commons for upload rights. Each mediawiki as build in groups such as users, autopatrolled, admin, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:
  • user group's upload right: "user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 } (72 mins)
  • autopatrolled group's upload righ: "autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }
Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the autopatrolled group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month (I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).
Can we tell Commons API's "Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>" or should we specifically ask for userights there via Commons:Requests_for_rights and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get Autopatrolled users so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group users) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created:
  • LinguaLibre:User rights, a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and ratelimit. Yug (talk) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
  • For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta) (কথা) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ?

Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après une demande sur Twitter, mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? Lyokoï (talk) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. Yug (talk) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
J'ai ouvert un ticket sur Phabricator. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. Pamputt (talk) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
@Pamputt Il faut faire comment manuellement ? Lyokoï (talk) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
@Lyokoï en passant par Special:NewItem, tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de French (Q21)). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. Pamputt (talk) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
@Pamputt Merci Je vais essayer ! Lyokoï (talk) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

0x010C year offgrid : preparations

Hello folks, 0x010C anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our benevolent lead developer. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. Yug (talk) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Critical Task / Aspect Requirement ? Who else knows ?
Who wish to learn ?
Satisfy
requirements (%)
high Server maintenance 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge
2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).
3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.
4. Knows how to restart NGINX server
NEEDS SOMEONE 0% so far
high Edit recording wizard JS library 1. Has advanced javascript know how.
2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}
3. Edit and test js code locally .
4. Has access rights to push.
None or Nicolas Vion ? 0% or 60%
high Deploying fix into production 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge
2. Has access rights to server.
3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.
4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy.
WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) Uncertain
high Add new language to LinguaLibre 1. Has administrator user rights
2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here}
Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... 90%
high Read Phabricator task, fix code 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.
2. Edit code, test locally.
4. Has access rights to push.
No replacement for real code, code deployment.
Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes.
30%
medium Assign user rights 1. Has bureaucrats status
2. Know how to assign new user rights.
Special:ListUsers/sysop: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.
Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels.
100%
medium Github repository manager 1. Have access to repository {link here}.
2. Has owner status.
3. Can manage userrights
Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... 70%
medium Create tasks on Phabricator 1. Have account on phabricator.
2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.
3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks
Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... 70%
low - assumed very stable LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.
Well documented on mw:API.
2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.
3. Can test locally.
4. Has access rights to push.
Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? 10%
low Update site's CSS 1. Edit MediaWiki:Common.css (hack)
or
1. Edit {git repository page}.
Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... 30%
Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre.
2018-12 Lingua Libre webrequest flow.png
Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. Pamputt (talk) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and pollute existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. Yug (talk) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Feedbacks from 0x010C

Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.
Also, he pointed out the following points:

  • 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to add pointers to the table above and answer questions.
    • This will occurs in late October.
  • 0x010C will not be able to inspect the speeding-up bug : we need to find an alternative to fix this.
  • 0x010C underlined the most critical need : a server sysop, able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.

First, on the speeding-up bug, we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :

  1. Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)
  2. Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:

Secondly, on the critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre.

While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors.

Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. Yug (talk) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Speeding-up bug : call for testers

Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to Special:RecordWizard, pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;)

  • Username : yourusername
  • Speeding bug : true|false
  • Web browser : name-version
  • OS : name-version
  • Microphone : built-in|external

Yug (talk) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: @DSwissK

Tester username Speeding occurs ? Web browser + version OS + version Microphone type
DSwissK yes Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 Android 9 internal
ClasseNoes yes Google Chrome ChromeOS internal
<add yourself>