LinguaLibre

Difference between revisions of "Chat room"

Welcome to the Chat room! Place used to discuss any and all aspects of Lingua Libre: the project itself, discussions of the operations, policy and proposals, technical issues, etc. Other forums include for code-oriented issues, . Feel free to participate in any language you want to.

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* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''
 
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''
** Paris's [[LinguaLibre:Hackathon_15-16_Décembre]] just finished. More events to come. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].
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** Paris's [[LinguaLibre:Events/Hackathon_15-16_décembre_2018|Events/Hackathon_15-16_décembre_2018]] just finished. More events to come. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].
  
 
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''
 
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''
 
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].
 
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].
  
== Utiliser le Lingua Libre Bot dans l'incubator:shy ==
 
  
Est-ce que c'est possible de faire la même chose pour le wiktionnaire en Chaoui ? je veux dir est-il il possible d'utiliser votre bot sur notre wiktionnaire aussi ? je peux donner l'algorithme du [https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wt/shy wiki-test]. Cordialement. -[[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 12:32, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
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== Custom Commons filename ==
:Oui bien sur ! Avez-vous un bistro / village pump / ... pour en discuter là-bas ? — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:24, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 
::Oui il y a un bistro vierge du [https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wt/shy/Asebtar_amenzu wiktionnaire Chaoui] que vous pouvez activer. Ou bien celui de [https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incubator:Community_Portal l'incubator] où en peut discuter avec des administrateurs à propos de l'autorisation du bot. Cordialement. -[[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 18:26, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 
:::Je suis en ce moment en chemin pour Wikimania, je vais n'avoir que très peu de temps jusque là, mais je lancerais la discussion à mon retour. Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:43, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 
:::: Bon voyage.--[[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 21:48, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 
[[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] J'espère que vous m'avez pas oublié =) Car en septembre on lance un concours pour le wiktionnaire en Chaoui, et si on peut enregistrer des mots qui vont passer directement sur incubateur, je fais la promo de Lingualibre en même temps que la promo du concours.--[[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]] ([[User talk:Reda Kerbouche|talk]]) 14:01, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:[[User:Reda Kerbouche|Reda Kerbouche]], [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']],  Is this {done} ? --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:04, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 
::Bots-related documentation could be gathered in [[Help:Bots]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:01, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== Liste sur le modèle de Petscan ==
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Sorry if this is obvious.
Salut, est ce qu'il serait possible de faire une liste à la volée sur le modèle de ce qu'est capable de faire Petscan ? [https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?language=fr&project=wiktionary&categories=Lemmes%20en%20fran%C3%A7ais&negcats=Prononciations%20audio%20en%20fran%C3%A7ais&ns%5B0%5D=1&search_max_results=500&interface_language=fr&&doit= Ici], on a la liste de tous les lemmes du Wiktionnaire qui n'ont pas de catégorie « Prononciations audio en français » ce qui signifie qu'il n'ont pas le modèle « écouter » qui permet d'ajouter les entrées dans cette catégorie. Je trouve que la génération d'une telle liste serait vraiment sympa pour les Wiktionnaires. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:07, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
 
:L'idée est bonne en effet, cependant ça représente un gros boulot à intégrer sur Lingua Libre. Je pense qu'il serait intéressant d'en discuter un peu et d'établir un petit cahier des charges de ce que l'on veut pouvoir faire (tout dans petscan n'est pas utile ici). — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 22:00, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
 
::[[User:0x010C|0x010C]], est ce que tu penses que l'exemple que j'ai donné ci-dessus (lemmes en français qui n'ont pas de prononciation) peut être implémenté à partir de [[MediaWiki:Gadget-Demo.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:23, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 
:::Oui c'est exactement ça, il faut passer par la création d'un nouveau générateur de mots. Dans mon début de réflexion plus haut, je réfléchissais à comment implémenter les fonctionnalités de petscan dans un générateur. Sauf que niveau performance et rapidité, on pourrait jamais faire quelque chose d'utilisateur avec des catégories aussi grosse que "Lemmes en français", je m'explique. Petscan fait son travail de recherche et de recoupement côté serveur, directement sur une copie de la base de donnée des wikis (il peut ainsi en un coup explorer tous les enregistrements). Or ici, nous n'avons pas d'accès à la base de donnée et les calculs doivent être fait côté client, en javascript. On dépend donc de l'API des wikis en question pour récupérer les données, API qui n'est pas du tout faite pour travailler sur des catégories très grosses (ne peut retourner que 500 membres par requête, etc).
 
::: Bref, c'est pas possible. Cependant, on peut imaginer se reposer sur petscan pour faire le boulot chiant à notre place (ce générateur deviendrait complètement dépendant de cet outil externe, une panne de ce dernier bloquerait le fonctionnement du premier). Je vois trois options :
 
:::# le générateur reprend un certain nombre de champs de petscan, et va à partir des valeurs fournies générer une requête à petscan (complexe pour l'utilisateur lambda, flexible pour l'utilisateur expérimenté) ;
 
:::# le générateur propose à l'utilisateur de choisir parmi un certain nombre de requêtes petscan préparé à l'avance par nos soins (par exemple en cliquant sur "mots en français n'ayant pas de prononciation sur le wiktionnaire francophone", ta requête exposé plus haut serait utilisé), ou de coller l'URL / l'identifiant d'une requête qu'il a préparé / trouvé (plus simple à implémenter, nous oblige à créer pleins de requêtes pour supporter différentes langues, assez flexible) ;
 
:::# on fait un générateur spécialisé "mots dont la prononciation est manquante" où il va automatiquement forger la requête petscan pour faire comme dans ton exemple pour la langue sélectionnée (facile d'utilisation, très spécifique mais potentiellement très utile, nous obligerait à renseigner manuellement les catégories wiktionnaire correspondante car je ne vois aucun moyen de deviner le nom de la catégorie d'une langue à partir de son code ou son id wikidata...)
 
:::Qu'en penses-tu ?
 
:::— [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 02:53, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
 
::::La première proposition me semble trop usine à gaz et bien que puissante, je ne pense pas qu'elle s'adresse au public de Lingua Libre.Entre les propositions 2 et 3, j'ai une préférence pour la 2 car elle est simple d'utilisation au premier abord (on utilise des requêtes pré-forgées) tout en permettant une utilisation avancée (avantage de la solution 1). Et par rapport à la solution 3, ça évite de la maintenance pour déterminer la langue d'une catégorie donc c'est plus maintenable sur le long terme à mon avis. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 
:::::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]]: Entre deux avions, je viens de finir une première version du générateur petscan, activable via [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|préférences > gadgets]]. Est-ce que tu peux y jetter un œil et me dire ce que tu en penses avant que je continue et que je l'annonce plus largement ?
 
:::::Merci — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:39, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 
::::::[[User:0x010C|0x010C]], j'ai activé le gadget et je vois bien PetScan dans la liste. J'ai fait quelques essais et ça fonctionne bien. J'ai essayé avec l'URL du premier message et ça fonctionne nickel. En revanche, j'ai essayé avec [https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?language=fr&project=wiktionary&categories=Adjectifs%20en%20fran%C3%A7ais&negcats=Prononciations%20audio%20en%20fran%C3%A7ais&ns%5B0%5D=1&search_max_results=500&interface_language=en&active_tab= ça] et ça m'indique "Petscan output something weired with this URL, check it and come back afterwards.". En revanche si j'ajoute le « &doit= » à la fin, ça fonctionne correctement (est-il vraiment nécessaire) ?
 
::::::Autre point, cest-ce qu'il est déjà possible de préparer des requêtes pré-faites (« mots en français n'ayant pas de prononciation sur le wiktionnaire francophone », ...) ou pas encore ? En l'état c'est déjà super cool. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:04, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 
:::::::J'avais oublié que cetaines URL pouvaient ne pas avoir l'auto-run, c'est fix. Je réfléchis actuellement à la meilleur façon de faire en fait. Ma problématique, c'est qu'une requête comme « mots en français n'ayant pas de prononciation sur le wiktionnaire francophone » n'intéressera que ceux qui font des enregitrements en français, si un germanophone dois scroller 25 requêtes qui le concerne pas (et qu'il ne comprend surement pas) avant d'en trouver une en allemand, c'est pas cool pour lui.
 
:::::::De là, trois idées qui me viennent en écrivant ces lignes :
 
:::::::* Une page par langue, dans l'espace de nom list ([[List:fra]] ? [[List:fra-external]] ? [[List:fra-examples]] ? ...) qui regroupe via une liste à puce toutes les urls dispo pour une langue ;
 
:::::::* Une fois ce travail fait, ce n'est pas très compliqué de supporter d'autres outils externes qui peuvent être appelé via une URL et renvoyer le résultat en JSON ; je pense notamment à querry.wikidata.org ;
 
:::::::* Et là, plus une réflexion, est-ce que ça serait pertinent une fois que ça sera stable de l'intégrer au générateur "listes" actuel (genre avoir deux onglets dedans, "listes statique", "listes dynamiques/externes/..." ?), ou l'intégrer comme un nouveau générateur à part entière dans le core du RecordWizard ? (et du coup comment le nommer dans ce cas ?)
 
:::::::Un avis externe me serait bien utile pour trancher tout cela :) — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 19:52, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== Variations géographiques ==
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How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?
  
Bonjour,
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For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
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:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
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== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==
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Dear all,
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I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.
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For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre
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Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :
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- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.
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- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :
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1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website
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2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians
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3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently
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4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible
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For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.
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In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.
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Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6
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and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i
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you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up
  
Bravo pour ce projet très intéressant.
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Je me pose une question à propos des prononciations. Je suis du sud de la France et contrairement à une bonne partie du reste de la France, nous usons beaucoup de l'accent tonique (influence italienne et espagnole, j'imagine). Du coup, la prononciation de certains mots, et surtout des locutions, ont une rythmique différente par chez moi.
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Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...
  
Comment gérer ces variations de prononciation ? Ont-elles droit de cité ou comme les québécois doit-on privilégier un "Français international" neutre ?
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One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).
  
Pour finir sur le sujet, la prononciation de certains mots sont différentes chez nous : lait, mas, moins (avec un s !), etc. Comment intégrer ça dans Wiktionnaire ou Wikipédia ?
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Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)
  
[[User:Jpgibert|Jpgibert]] ([[User talk:Jpgibert|talk]]) 12:02, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
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Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada
  
:Bonjour,
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== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==
:Merci pour ton intérêt !
 
:Non, il ne faut surtout pas privilégier un français "''neutre''". Chaque variation / accent locale est intéressent. En fait, juste avant de commencer à enregistrer il t'es demandé de remplir ton profil de locuteur, dans lequel tu peux renseigner ton lieu d'habitation / d'apprentissage d'une langue.
 
:Lorsqu'un enregistrement est ajouté ensuite sur le Wiktionnaire par exemple, cette information y est inclu. Si plusieurs personnes ont enregistré les même mots, on pourra donc écouter les différences de prononciation de « lait » en Alsace, au Québec, en Occitanie, en Île de France, au Mali,... Et ça c'est cool :)
 
:Cela répond à tes questions ?
 
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 21:55, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
 
  
::Bonjour [[User:0x010C]]
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Bonjour à toutes et à tous,
::Merci pour la réponse. Je m'inquiétais de la chose parce que s'il existe un code linguistique pour les variations du français au Québec (fr-CA) ou de Belgique (fr-BE), en revanche l'accent n'est pas pris en compte.
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<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.
::Content d'apprendre que malgré mon accent, je serai le bienvenu. Bon pour le moment, faut que j'achète un bon micro avant de faire quoi que ce soit, mais dès que j'aurai ça, je tenterai de partager mon accent méridional.
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<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/
::[[User:Jpgibert|Jpgibert]] ([[User talk:Jpgibert|talk]]) 12:31, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
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<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.
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--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
  
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== Record Wizard translation ==
  
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Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
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:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
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::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
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:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
  
== Thésaurus ==
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== Premier essai ==
  
Bonjour,
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J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam
  
Durant la vidéo de présentation du projet par [[user:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p_z3jyihwU LetsContribute6]), j'ai appris qu'on pouvait générer des listes de mots à partir de catégories. Serait-il possible de faire le même genre de chose à partir d'un thésaurus ? Question subsidiaire, est-ce que ça à un intérêt ?
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Les innévitables questions :
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* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?
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* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?
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* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?
  
[[User:Jpgibert|Jpgibert]] ([[User talk:Jpgibert|talk]]) 12:39, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
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En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
:Ca pourrait effectivement être intéressant même si c'est plus compliqué à coder (j'imagine). Juste pour donner un exemple pour ceux qui ne voient pas ce dont il est question, on peut aller voir [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Th%C3%A9saurus:pain/fran%C3%A7ais ici]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:30, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
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:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions
:: {{ping|Jpgibert}} Le plus simple pour faire ça, c'est de copier-coller le contenu du thésaurus et de séparer les mots avec un #. Ça doit demander quelques minutes pour être mis en forme, mais ce n'est pas non plus le Pérou. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:22, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
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:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?
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::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].
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:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?
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::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].
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:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?
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:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.
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: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
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:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 +
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Bonjour,
 +
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.
 +
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
  
== General issues + issues with Odia and Asian writing systems ==
+
== Compilation de textes ==
:{{Done}}, all issue tracked on phabricator or explained below. Ready to archive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:22, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
 
I loved the current version! Truly admire the changes you all have made over time.
 
I have also done a few recordings in my own language Odia to check for any error. Below are a few:
 
  
# '''Tag already recorded items ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212580 T212580]):''' When a word has already been recorded and has been uploaded on Commons, does is not make sense to show it as a flag instead of letting any user to upload it directly?
+
Bonjour,
# '''Add custom commons categories ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T201135 T201135]):''' Also, different languages have different additional categories which Lingua Libre does not let one to add. For instance, I generally add a user category to know how many audio files I have uploaded. For the files recorded using Lingua Libre, I don't see an option to add that optional category.
 
# '''Remove duplicated words (in same session: explanation below ; across time: [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212580 T212580]):''' If I am adding a wordlist before recording, is that possible to keep only one word if the same word is used multiple times? This would save some time for the uploader.
 
# '''Monitor suspect cracking sound in audios ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T201136 T201136]):''' There is a bit of crackling sound that is heard while monitoring the recorded words. Any particular reason?
 
# '''Some words fails anyway ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212584 T212584]):''' Even though I am correctly pronouncing every word, I see a lot of red-labelled words.
 
# '''Allow click-play-listen while recording ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212583 T212583]):''' While recording, I cannot check how the recording sounds like. I can only choose to re-record after hearing the recorded sound. Otherwise even having that option is of no use.
 
# '''Remove underline ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/c48d2e6f6cb31acef8a39245bab1eccc5dbdb969 done]):''' While recording each word is seen as a green button and during the recording the word is underlined. This works well for Latin-based scripts. However for my script, Odia, and even many other Asian languages, this is a problem as we have diacritics and accent marks below the character. It becomes too hard at times to read when underlined. Also, the light green color and a white background is not accessible to people with corrections or color blindness. Maybe black background with white text will create more contrast and make it easier to read.
 
# '''Last word cannot be re-recorded (explanation below):''' When you reach the last word of a batch and want to re-record that word, it doesn't allow you to click on the word button and re-record.
 
  
Also, requesting to add the Warang Citi (used for Ho language) and Ol Chiki (used for Santali language).
+
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?
  
Thank you much again. I would really love to contribute more myself, and involve other community members. --[[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:21, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
+
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).
:Hi!
+
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
:First of all, thanks for your feedbacks, that's really helpful. Here are some details about your remarks:
+
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).
:# In my opinion, it is interesting to have several records of the same word by different users, the naming convention takes this into account to avoid records to be overridden by another user. But as I'm not sure I understood this point very well, don't hesitate to clarify it if my answer is mistaken.
+
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
:# [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T201135 T201135]
 
:# If I have correctly understood your point, that's already the case. You can't add duplicate words in the same record batch (if you try to do so, the second one will be dismissed).
 
:# It's just a small file-loading issue, it will be fixed soon, see [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T201136 T201136]
 
:# This is a major issue I'm already aware of. In some cases (~ 1 word out of 100), for some unknown reason, MediaWiki is mistaken in taking WAV files for executable files, so it refuses them...
 
:# I'll try to add a way to listen the records while still in the recording studio.
 
:# I wasn't aware of that particularities, I'll remove the underline. I'm not so fond of the white text on black, but I'll try to find something more accessible.
 
:# Hum, this works well with me. When you have recorded the last word, the record automatically cuts off, did you click on the big red button to enable it again?
 
:I've imported the Ho language, which was missing from Lingua Libre, but the two writing system you've mentionned are part of Unicode and should works, am I wrong?
 
:Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:37, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 
::+1 for point 7, the underline is also troublesome for Chinese. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:08, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
 
::Hi! Continuing the cleaning effort and tracking of issues, also to stay short and concise, I [https://lingualibre.fr/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=next&oldid=63662 enhanced the initial post] with title and status (phabricator issue). Sorry for that, just cleaner. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:33, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 
:::Note: I pointed out to Psubhashish the work on his former feedbacks. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Psubhashish&oldid=875780271 positive discussion on EN]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:45, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== Première utilisation : quelques questionnements ==
+
== One word, one language, one page ==
  
Bonjour !
+
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.
  
Tout d'abord, merci beaucoup pour ce super outil !
+
A possible structure would be:
  
J'ai remarqué quelques difficultés à l'usage. Peut-être que c'est juste parce que je suis nouvelle et pas au courant de toutes les options, mais voilà ma liste :
+
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words
 +
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"
 +
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs
  
# Sur une liste de 20 mots, il faut généralement que je reprenne l'enregistrement manuellement trois ou quatre fois parce que l'outil décide soudain de ne plus enregistrer. Quand je sélectionne un mot, même en cliquant sur le gros bouton rouge, il y a à peu près une chance pour deux pour que l'enregistrement se lance.
+
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:
# Mes mots sont très souvent coupés au début et à la fin (pour les noms propres en deux ou trois mots surtout) : peut-être qu'il serait pertinent d'avoir un petit bouton "next" pour marquer manuellement les fins de mots ? Sur 20 mots enregistrés, entre ceux que l'outil n'a pas envie de me laisser enregistrer (cf #1) et ceux qui sont coupés, m'en reste peu. Sur 3 listes d'une vingtaine de noms, j'en ai eu 2, 5 et 7 exploitables.
+
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345
# Sur une page d'enregistrement comme [[Q44570]], le lien vers la page Wikipédia met un + au lieu d'un _ entre les mots donc on arrive sur un lien rouge dans Wikipédia.
+
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345
  
Si ça peut servir, je suis sur la dernière version en date de Firefox au 10/10/18 & Windows 10.
 
  
Pour le reste : c'est vraiment super, bravo pour tout ce travail ! Je vais continuer à faire joujou avec l'outil jusqu'à être bien familière avec.
+
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.
  
[[User:Exilexi|Exilexi]] ([[User talk:Exilexi|talk]]) 06:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
+
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.
:Les problèmes 1 et 2 sont en fait quasiment réglés avec un meilleur micro. Lingua Libre demande la permission pour un micro qui n'est pas mon micro par défaut, pour une raison inconnue.
 
:Nouveau souci avec l'upload : tous les mots sauf 1 sont bien téléversés. Le bouton Commons s'affiche en grisé et rien ne se passe si je clique sur la petite croix à côté d'un mot : apparemment, c'est tout ou rien pour mettre sur Commons, donc je viens de perdre 29 mots parce qu'un seul refusait de s'uploader. [[User:Exilexi|Exilexi]] ([[User talk:Exilexi|talk]]) 06:44, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
 
:: J'en ajoute un : j'avais enregistré 20 mots "autour de moi". Là, je viens d'en lancer 20 autres... et c'est les mêmes. Il pourrait être intéressant d'ajouter une option pour éviter d'enregistrer plusieurs fois la même chose (mon accent ne change pas d'un jour à l'autre). [[User:Exilexi|Exilexi]] ([[User talk:Exilexi|talk]]) 05:36, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
 
  
Salut [[User:Exilexi|Exilexi]], quelques remarques ou éléments de réponse à tes commentaires
+
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.
# Lorsque tu décris que l'outil stoppe l'enregistrement, je pense que le problème vient de la qualité du micro. C'est ce que tu sembles avoir conclu également.
 
# Lingua Libre découpe les mots automatiquement dès qu'il détecte un blanc. Pour les noms à rallonge, on pourrait envisager d'ajouter un bouton pour passer manuellement au mot suivant. Cela étant dit, ça perd un peu de l'intérêt de l'outil car ça devient beaucoup plus lent.
 
# concernant le lien vers Wikipédia (avec un « + »), ça semble en effet un bogue. J'ai ouvert un [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T206801 ticket sur Phabricator].
 
# pour les problèmes d'upload, quand un téléversement échoue, un [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198014 ticket] existe déjà sur ce sujet.
 
# pour les listes de mots, il est possible d'en créer soi-même. Il en existe déjà plusieurs en français (quelques dizaines) et moins dans les autres langues. Il est expliquer [[Help:Create_your_own_lists/fr|ici]] sur la façon de procéder. Si tu as besoin d'aide, fais-nous signe. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 20:13, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== Formosan languages workshop ==
+
=== Examples from other sites ===
Hi there, I had an email exchange with Vicky, the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Chengchi_University NCCU] language researcher involved in Formosan languages protection. Some of her questions are [https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Toy_Story#Buzz_Lightyear beyond] my skills :
+
==== Shtooka ====
 +
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.
  
1. I couldn't find ais(Sakizaya), ami(Amis), trv(Truku) in the language list. Please add, thanks!
+
==== Lingopolo ====
2. Can I add the dialect information in the speaker file?
+
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio
Because there are 42 dialects under 16 aboriginal languages, I had record Squliq dialect not C’uli’ dialect of Atayal language today.
 
3. I had add the Chinese translation after the aboriginal languages, is that ok for lingua libre?
 
Or I only can type in aboriginal languages?
 
  
I broke the questions in several subsections so a quick discussion may occurs for each. Please take notes that Vicky workshop is coming this week, so it would be cool to forward her practical solutions early.
+
==== Forvo ====
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:38, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
+
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.
  
=== 1) Requesting languages additions ===
+
==== Pixabay ====
* Amis_language (iso: ami; wikidata: [[wikidata:Q35132|Q35132]]).
+
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops
* Sakizaya has no iso639, from my understanding. Sakizaya_language (iso: none, wikidata: [[wikidata:Q718269|Q718269]]), Nataoran_language (iso: ais, wikidata: [[wikidata:Q42508148|Q42508148]]).
 
* Truku (no iso no wikidata) : is described in Wikipedia as the main component of Seediq language (iso: trv, wikidata: [[wikidata:Q716686|Q716686]]), already in LinguaLibre. Taiwanese linguist, the most experienced in the matter, are making a distinction.
 
If I understand well, LL only requires wikidata ID. If so, I would recommend to add [[wikidata:Q35132|Q35132]] (amis), [[wikidata:Q718269|Q718269]] (Sakizaya). [[wikidata:Q42508148|Q42508148]] (Nataorans) and [[wikidata:Q716686|Q716686]] (Seediq) are already in I think. Truku may require a wikidata item creation, then integration in LL.
 
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:38, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 
:The four languages have been imported here: [[Q51311]] Seediq, [[Q51870]] Amis, [[Q51871]] Sakizaya and [[Q51872]] Nataoran and can be used for recording. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 04:15, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 
  
=== 2) "There are 42 dialects under 16 aboriginal languages". ===
+
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
We previously added 15 or 16 of these recognized languages into LinguaLibre (thanks x0 and Pamputt). Again, Taiwanese linguists are the experts on the matter, so what can we (LL) recommend for these 42 variants ? Two ideas came to me.
+
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.
# Add the information in he speaker name or place of learning. By example for : Paul Martin (Breton north) ; Paul Martin (Breton south).
+
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.
# Add the Wikidata items following Taiwanese linguists recommendations, while no wikipedia articles nor iso639 exists.
+
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.
What do you think ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:38, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
+
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
: As far as I uundertand, if no Wikidata item exists for a given language, we have two options: create it on Wikidata (whether it is notable) and import here after or create it by hand directly here. So for dialect, I would say they are enough notable to be created on Wikidata but I have no time to do it by myself before the end of the year (I have no regular Internet connection for now). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 04:18, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 
::In fact, the second option mentionned above by Pamputt won't work. For a language to be recognised by the RecordWizard, it has to have a wikidata ID. The right way to do it imho is (as also suggested by Pamputt) to create the corresponding item on wikidata, and then ask for an import here. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:46, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
 
  
=== 3) "Is it ok to use <code>mhway su (谢谢)</code> ?" (target word + translation) ===
+
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==
* '''Technically''', both aboriginal languages and Chinese, de factor the target word together with its closest macro-language's translation, here, Chinese.
 
* Keep extremely '''consistent''' in your practice, so to ease later usages (learning apps). If the rule is  
 
<span style="color:green;">{aboriginal}{white_space}{opening_round_braket_(}{Chinese}{closing_round_braket_)}</span>
 
stick to it, and avoid round brackets in other places of your element. Early consistency makes later usages easier.
 
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:38, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 
:@x0, devs, there again we have the questions of wordlists with translations. I previously suggested that [[Help:Create_your_own_lists|words lists]] support a iso639 syntaxe or wikidata id syntax so to push the translation into a different metadata field. Example of list :
 
: mhway su [cmn:谢谢,eng:Thank]
 
:Then "mhway su" is the target recorded word. "谢谢" is the translation in the meta data "cmn" (Chinese). "Thank" is the translation in the meta data "eng" (English). I guess I should open a ticket on Phabricator. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 
::Multi-lingual wordlist --wordlist including the translation of target words-- are not supported at the moment. An issue have been opened on LinguaLibre developments and bugs tracking system ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T211086 T211086]). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:29, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== Thésaurus (2) ==
+
Bonjour, tout le monde.
J'ai [https://lingualibre.fr/index.php?title=LinguaLibre%3AChat_room&type=revision&diff=62426&oldid=62425 archivé] le coeur de la discussion de Benoit & 0x010C, mais cet autre sujet mérite une section:
 
:"Rien à voir. Je pensais qu'un petit outil de génération de liste depuis un thésaurus fr.wikt ce serait top. Au lieu de choisir une catégorie d'un wikiprojet, on choisirait un thésaurus. Une idée comme ça.  --[[User:Benoît Prieur|Benoît]] 21:36, 20 December 2018 (UTC)"
 
--[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:41, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== Feature request: ask to reuse existing identical audio if available ==
+
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?
:{{Done}}, can be archived. 12:08, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 
I waste a lot of time because Lingua Libre Bot has to have new audio for every lexeme forms. For example this audio https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q809_(pol)-KaMan-Bizancjum.wav I had to record 10 times (https://lingualibre.fr/index.php?title=Q55850&action=history). A lot of forms in Polish language is duplicated in different cases. It would be great if in word generator (+ExternalTools) in Record Wizard could be question to ask if duplicate should be recorded (identical speaker, language and lexeme), and Lingua Libre Bot propagate existing audio. It could save time. [[User:KaMan|KaMan]] ([[User talk:KaMan|talk]]) 14:28, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
 
:KaMan, where does your wordlist(s?) come from ? how is it created ? You use LinguaLibre word generator ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 00:12, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
:If I understand well, you eventually have the same issue as raised in [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Warn_the_user_when_they_try_to_record_a_file_that_they_already_made|Warn the user when they try to record a file that they already made]]. Namely, you meet again and again words that you already recorded. If this is correct, then we started to look for technical solutions ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212580 T212580]). As of now, for long series, it is important to stick to large frequency list, so to not re-record similar words multiple times. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 00:17, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
:I took a look online for available frequency lists in polish.
 
:* Subtlex-pl : [http://crr.ugent.be/papers/subtlex-pl.pdf article], [http://crr.ugent.be/papers/subtlex-pl.pdf http://crr.ugent.be/programs-data/subtitle-frequencies/subtlex-pl data], available but "for research usage".
 
:* Worldlex : [https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/s13428-015-0621-0 article], [http://worldlex.lexique.org data], available but unstated license
 
:* Hermit Dave, 2016 : [https://invokeit.wordpress.com/frequency-word-lists/ page], [https://github.com/hermitdave/FrequencyWords/tree/master/content/2016/pl data], CC-by-sa
 
:So Hermit Dave's data would do. We have tutorials on [[Help:How_to_create_a_wordlist_%3F#Command|how to clean up frequency lists]],[[Help:How_to_create_a_wordlist_%3F#Splitting_a_very_long_file|how to split such long file]], other [[Help:How_to_create_a_wordlist_%3F#From_corpus_to_frequency_data_.60.7Boccurences.7D_.7Bitem.7D.60|tricks]], and [[Help:Create_your_own_lists#Create_a_new_list|how to create a list on LinguaLibre]] to help.
 
:Some command will need minor changes if your input differs. If you have some basic shell skills, you can do it and learn the exact commands needed quickly. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 01:30, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
::No Yug. He's talking about word lists generated with a SPARQL query from Lexemes on Wikidata, and from the fact that Lingua Libre Bot only associate audio recordings on the Lexeme when there is a direct link, causing him to re-record many times homograph words that are also homonym.
 
::But the main issue I pointed out in [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212580 T212580] apply here too, I don't have any idea of easy and effective implementation right now.
 
::(and no Yug, it is not "''important to stick to large frequency list''", we have other —more simple— solutions yet as Wikimedia categories or external tools imports).
 
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:10, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
::: 0x010C is right. It's not problem of wrong list, list of words is correct. If there is no easy solution to it I can work with it as is but I admit I feel pain ;) before recording of 14 identical forms of https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Lexeme:L19356 :) [[User:KaMan|KaMan]] ([[User talk:KaMan|talk]]) 13:22, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
::::"Who doesnt try cannot be wrong." It really needs to read between lines to find the Wikidata reference. "Lexeme" is lexicology term before being a Wikidata item type. The current SPARQL query doesnt seems time savy.
 
::::And yes, generally speaking frequency list of unique words save our speakers energy. First, each form is recorded only once : this is why human speakers are for, and they shouldn't have to record multiple times a same form. Second, in natural language, words frequency follow the [[:wikipedia:Zipf's law|Zipf's law]]. Thus, the 135 most frequent English items represent 50% coverage of written text. On the opposite side, recording Wikipedia categories is not representative of human language and thus not time efficient. One volunteer can audio record 2000 categories it will still barely account for 1% of this human language. This only has internal value, by wikipedians for wikipedians, which is positive but sub-optimal.
 
::::As of KaMan's case, I would still recommend using frequency list : it would save valuable human time. A later bot could dispatch the audios upon the various wikidata items of this language and form. So I just used Hermit Dave CC-by-sa data to create Polish language frequency lists on LinguaLibre for the first 20k words, they are now availale to in the [[Special:RecordWizard|Record Studio]] > Details step : Local list > "pol". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:51, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
:::::Yug, it's not a problem of frequency list but feature of language. I record all FORMS of words. Every noun in Polish has at least 14 forms, every adjective has 30-80 forms, same for verbs. Every form has entry in Wikidata and needs recording. But many of these forms are identical so in the end I have to record the same audio several times. It is independent from the fact the word is from frequency list. In other words word from frequency list has the same problem in Wikidata. BTW: I already follow frequency list in creating lexemes in Wikidata, but thanks :) [[User:KaMan|KaMan]] ([[User talk:KaMan|talk]]) 16:27, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
::::::I think I get your process now. Learning ongoing ! Still seems weird you are recording 14 times the same form. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:58, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== Homonymy ==
+
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Bonjour,
 +
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.
 +
:Désolé pour le problème :/.
 +
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !
 +
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
  
How homonyms are treated? Will they be overwritten with new recordings? [[User:Infovarius|Infovarius]] ([[User talk:Infovarius|talk]]) 17:42, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
+
== Wikidata ==
:Yes, if a new word has the same transcription, the same language and the same speaker as an old one, it will be override. If you want to record two homonym words that have a different pronunciation, you can add a small qualifier into brakets just after the word when you type it in the 3rd step of the RecordWizard. Everything that is inside brackets will be put aside, like on this record [[:File:LL-Q150 (fra)-0x010C-fils (enfant).wav]]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 21:26, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
:: It is good that this is possible in principle. But how can I know that I am recording a homonym of something already recorded? [[User:Infovarius|Infovarius]] ([[User talk:Infovarius|talk]]) 21:51, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 
  
== Categories ==
+
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
:{{Done}} -- answer on feature status provided. See  [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T201135 T201135] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:52, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
+
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations.
How can I automatically add some categories to new Commons uploads (like "Russian pronunciation" and others)? [[User:Infovarius|Infovarius]] ([[User talk:Infovarius|talk]]) 17:44, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
+
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it.
:Currently this is not possible but it is a planned feature, see [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T201135 task T201135 on phabricator]. [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 21:46, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
+
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options
 +
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".
 +
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.
 +
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
  
== How to properly credit lists ==
+
== speedy et / ou delete ==
:{{Done}} : no built in solution as of now, issue opened ([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212671 T212671]), current hack: put source in talk page. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:53, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
+
Bonjour,<br />
([https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212671 T212671]) I attempted this [[List:Pol/words-by-frequency-2001-to-4000#Source]], but loading the list in the Record Studio keeps the source section as a word to record. Is there a known trick to hide this source section in the Record Studio ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:56, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
+
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br />
 +
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small>
 +
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
 +
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
  
== Erreur de téléversements ==
+
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==
Salut,
 
je rencontre un problème assez curieux. Lorsque j'ai fini de m'enregistrer, je choisis de publier sur Commons et là, une partie de mes enregistrements sont publiés et puis ça se met à planter. Après quoi, je ne peux plus en ré-upload pour une certaine période de temps. Que dois-je faire ? [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 21:17, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
 
:Salut,
 
:Désolé du délai de réponse, j'étais loin de mon ordinateur pour les fêtes.
 
:Est-ce que ça t'es arrivé de nouveau depuis le 29 ? Si oui je vois deux possibilité : soit tu t'es fait déconnecté de Lingua Libre en plein milieu du versement, soit un filtre sur Commons bloque les uploads pour toi pour une raison mystérieuse. Si ça arrive de nouveau, peux-tu essayer d'ouvrir lingualibre dans un nouvel onglet, et vérifier dans cet autre onglet si tu es bien connecté ? Si le problème est là (mais ça devrait plus arriver normalement), une simple reconnexion dans l'onglet d'à côté suffit pour pouvoir ensuire reprendre le versement des enregistrements échoués.
 
:— [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:36, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== Menu and naming ==
+
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
:See also [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]
+
===CSS===
Hello the team, from start I've been confused by the name "Record Wizard". A wizard for me is a man doing positive magic in middle age. ''Recording Studio'' or ''Recording Room'' would seems more expected and readable. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:33, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
+
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)
:There is everything fine with word "wizard" in this context, it has more than one meaning. See https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wizard : "A computer program or script used to simplify complex operations" Wizard for me fits better than Studio or Room in my opinion. [[User:KaMan|KaMan]] ([[User talk:KaMan|talk]]) 16:58, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
+
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
::It's a technolect, a word known by a minor community, aka "geeks" ^^. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:41, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
+
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
::: No, it's not technolect of geeks, it's well established element of user interfaces representing step-by-step process. Just google for "wizard user interface". I don't know why you don't know this term, but it is well known in English when it comes to describing user interfaces in computing. As you can read at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizard_(software) the term is used by Microsoft for about 28 years and Microsoft definetly is not for geeks but for everyone. [[User:KaMan|KaMan]] ([[User talk:KaMan|talk]]) 08:21, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
+
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.
::::We have to consider organizers and speakers with low English literacy, and we do have them. For [[Q51302|Atayal]], speaker have 0 English literacy, marginal Chinese literacy, organizer has basic English literacy, full Chinese literacy. Most very local languages ("dialects") are or will be in such case. Let's be honest with ourselves, the UI won't be translate in all these very local languages. They will likely use ur UI in one of the 8 Macro languages (cn, es, en, fr, ru, pt, hi, ar). Our UI language is a barrier.
+
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
::::<code>wizard: 5806th</code> English word by frequency, including all its meaning such 'magician', 'Software UI', see [https://www.ugent.be/pp/experimentele-psychologie/en/research/documents/subtlexus/subtlexus4.zip subtlexus4.zip] from [https://ugent.be/pp/experimentele-psychologie/en/research/documents/subtlexus SUBTLEXus: WORD FREQUENCY AMERICAN ENGLISH]. Above rank 5000th it is in the [[Help:Why wordlists matter ?|range of vocabulary mastered by nearly fluent learners (C1)]]. I report my feeling that "wizard" is confusing, as it have been foor myself. IMHO our UI should be in [[:en:Basic English|Basic English]] to be readable to all users, same for other 8 macro languages, so to be friendly with basic literacy people in these Macro languages. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:15, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
+
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
::::: I don't agree with you, UI should follow established UI guidelines. If all other software names step-by-step process by word "wizard" then we should do it as well. From the two words proposed by you "Room" is completly not recognizable in computing as name for wizard-like creator, and "Studio" is reserved for big, complex products like Visual Studio. Our "Record Wizard" is lightweight step-by-step creator and as such should be named like similar processes in similar software. Here are some examples to prove that word "wizard" is used for such step-by-step creators:
+
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
:::::* Wizard: http://www.webexe.com/images/screenshot_wizard.png
+
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
:::::* Wizard: http://www.htmlguard.com/images/screenshot_wizard.png
+
===Content===
:::::* Wizard: http://www.video-snapshot.com/images/ss-frame-snapshot-2.jpg
+
''Add your comments here. Point to page needing review.''
:::::* Wizard: http://www.musereo.com/screenshots/wizard-screenshot-step-2-busy.png
+
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.
:::::* Wizard: http://www.snapfiles.com/screenfiles/easeusdr.png
+
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
:::::* Wizard: https://download.komputerswiat.pl/media/2017/266/4152315/iuweshare_photo_recovery_wizard_screenshot_669x598.jpg
 
:::::* Wizard: http://www.surfoffline.com/img/wizard.gif
 
:::::* Wizard: https://static.webyog.com/images/top10features/SQLyog/reporting/schedule-backup-connection.png?version=70
 
::::: [[User:KaMan|KaMan]] ([[User talk:KaMan|talk]]) 13:14, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::::::Hi!
 
::::::On this point I totally agree with KaMan. Using an other word will maybe (or maybe not) help some people, but it will fur sure confuse every english-speaking person. That's why the interface is fully translatable, to let people understand it in their own language.
 
::::::And by the way, I can add to the list the [[:c:Special:UploadWizard|Upload Wizard]] on Commons, used daily by thousands of people around the world.
 
::::::— [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:29, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:::::::[Back from travel]
 
:::::::Your statements may be corrects (many start ups use this word), and mine too:<br>''"<code>wizard: 5806th</code> English word by frequency, including [first meaning] 'magician', [and rarer meaning] 'Software UI', see [https://www.ugent.be/pp/experimentele-psychologie/en/research/documents/subtlexus/subtlexus4.zip subtlexus4.zip] from [https://ugent.be/pp/experimentele-psychologie/en/research/documents/subtlexus SUBTLEXus: WORD FREQUENCY AMERICAN ENGLISH]. Above rank 5000th it is in the [[Help:Why wordlists matter ?|range of vocabulary mastered by nearly fluent learners (C1)]]."''<br>Therefore, not Basic English nor inclusive of low English proficiency users.<br>You are right to list dozens of English-speaking companies using it, still the statement about this word's low readability stay true. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== 2019 Prague Wikimedia Hackathon and scholarship (*bourse*) ==
+
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===
* Event: 2019 Prague Wikimedia Hackathon
+
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]
* Place: Prague, Czech Republic
+
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:
* Date: 17-19 May, 2019
+
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====
* Objective: push wikimedia dev projects forward, via coding, networking, documentation.
+
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".
* Scholarship : possible ! Please apply before January 8th included. Please send info to potential candidate.
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*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].
* Link: [https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Hackathon_2019/Register_and_Attend mediawiki.org:Wikimedia_Hackathon_2019/Register_and_Attend]
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*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.
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*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
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*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
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*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
 +
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
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*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?
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*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".
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*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
  
Please spread the word around the world ! [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:21, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
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==== b. Custom-categorization:====
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There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.
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*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].
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*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
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*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
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*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
  
== Word frequencies for prioritizing, UNILEX and licence ==
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====c. Custom metadata parameters:====
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There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
  
Would it make sense to prioritize the data entry, so that users would start recording the most frequent words of a language, and then proceed to the less important words? If you’d like to do this, here’s the [https://github.com/unicode-org/unilex/tree/master/data/frequency word frequencies for 1000+ languages], mostly from [https://github.com/googlei18n/corpuscrawler crawled corpora]. Language codes are [[:en:IETF BCP47|IETF BCP47]]. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 08:56, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
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*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.
:This would be indeed useful. To be available on Lingua Libre, we have to create manually (or using bots) [[Help:Create your own lists|lists]] with these words. I will try to find some time to do it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:04, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
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*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
::Lol. Sascha is in computational lexicology [http://www.brawer.ch/articles/ since 1993] ^^ #Boss [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:14, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
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*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
::Welcome Sascha, Happy to have your inputs,<br> We do encourage frequency lists usages (see [[Help:Why wordlists matter ?]]). LinguaLibre is still in it's open beta infancy.
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*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])
::'''Process and quality :''' We started to add some frequency list (Polish) by hand based on Hermite Dave project ([https://github.com/hermitdave/FrequencyWords/blob/master/content/2016/pl/pl_50k.txt 50k list], [https://github.com/hermitdave/FrequencyWords github], [https://invokeit.wordpress.com/frequency-word-lists/ wordpress announcement]). Hermite's free data is helpful yet quite raw, namely: polluted by foreign languages. So when available, we use cleaner list from academic research. Ex: Chinese is planed via [[Template:Subtlex-ch|Subtlex-ch]]. These raw text lists are then copy-pasted into LL wikipages, so one of these lists is then loaded in the record wizard to provide a list of words for the speaker to read aloud. There is no interactive sorting, it's just loading the list as a text.
 
::'''Licence :''' The other issue we have is that half of frequency lists around have weird semi-free licenses not or unclearly compatible with Wikimedia projects. UNILEX's licence is the [http://unicode.org/copyright.html#License UNICODE licence]. <br>@LL team : Any idea how we handle data and license asking :
 
provided that either
 
(a) this copyright and permission notice appear with all copies of the Data Files or Software, or
 
(b) this copyright and permission notice appear in associated documentation.
 
::We copy it to the talkpage as well ? --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:48, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== Enable all human languages in bulk? ==
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====d. Standardized naming:====
 +
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier.  --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])
 +
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 +
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}
 +
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.
 +
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.
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::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).
 +
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.
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::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)
 +
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/
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::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
  
Would it be possible to support all existing human languages at once? Currently, one needs to file a request for each and every language. It’s not very clear how to do this (which of the admins to contact, and how exactly to contact them?). Also, the LinguaLibre admins surely can make better use of their time than by handling single language requests... For a list of all languages, see the [https://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry/language-subtag-registry IANA language subtag registry] for [https://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/ IETF BCP47]. There’s only a few thousand languages, so it might be easy to do this in one single bulk, and then be done. If it helps, I’ll gladly generate a list of (IETF-BCP47-Code, Wikidata-ID) with the mapping, or any other information you’d need for this; feel free to contact me. [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 09:32, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
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==='''Discussion'''===
:+1. I think there is some techical issues for search fields... anyway to go forward ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:07, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
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Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
::Hi Sascha,
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:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
::For now on, I only imported languages with an iso639-2 tag, to test Lingua Libre's software with a smaller set of languages for its start (Lingua Libre is still in ''beta''). Importing ''every languages in the world'' is planned, but not on the short term, because I still have to check if the database and the software is able to manage smoothly thousend and thousend of languages.
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::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 18:24, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== Use IETF BCP47 instead of ISO 639? ==
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== Bugs ==
 +
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===
 +
Bonjour,
 +
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]].
  
Currently, LinguaLibre seems to use ISO 639 language codes internally. Consider switching to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IETF_language_tag IETF BCP47]; all modern computing standards such as HTML, XML or PDF have moved from ISO 639 to IETF BCP47. For example, BCP47 syntax supports regional variants such as Canadian French ''fr-CA''; language variants such as Sursilvan Romansh ''rm-sursilv''; regional subdivisions such as the Berne variant of Swiss German ''gsw-u-sd-chbe''; and other fine-grained distinctions. See [https://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/ this article] for an introduction, and the [https://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry/language-subtag-registry IANA registry of valid subtags] for the complete list. Specifically, the proposal would be to add property [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1059900 IETF BCP47 language tag (Q1059900)] to LinguaLibre’s copy of the Wikidata schema, and to use that property instead of [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q56217712 ISO 639-3 code (Q56217712)]. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 10:40, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
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PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.
:Hi Sascha!
 
:In fact, Lingua Libre uses nor ISO 639-3 nor BCP47 but Wikidata Qids as internal identifier for a language. Currently, and if I remember correctly, ISO639-3 codes are used in two cases:
 
:* For the name of pages containing lists in the list namespace (in the format <nowiki>[[List:ISO/List name]]</nowiki>, with ISO the iso6369-3 code);
 
:* To forge Wikimedia Commons's category names
 
:Changing the code would affect ''only'' those two parts of the process. If we switch from one language tag to an other, we would have to:
 
:* Add a new property ''BCP47'' locally as you suggested (a bot can import them from Wikidata);
 
:* Rename all local lists (can be made by hand, we don't have many lists for now on);
 
:* Rename all existing Wikimedia Commons categories and move all the audio recordings (a bot there is required);
 
:I have personnaly no opinion on this question, but if several person agree that it would be a good move, I'll add it to the development todo-list :).
 
:Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 18:19, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 
::Cool! I wasn’t aware that you’re internally using Wikidata IDs. This is great, because (other than ISO 639-3) it can model arbitrary languages and dialects.
 
::* Regarding the lists, would it perhaps be an option to key them by Wikidata ID? Then, arbitrary languages/dialects could be queried, and also regional variants such as Australian English. I don’t know how your server is implemented, but perhaps you could map language codes to Wikidata IDs in your frontend server, so it would not even have to be a user-visible change (apart from supporting more languages).
 
::* Regarding the names of categories on Wikimedia Commons, what would you think of the [https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Category_.E2.80.9CLingua_Libre_pronunciation-other.E2.80.9D proposal] to use IETF language codes instead of “other”?
 
::Best, — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]])
 
  
[[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 06:14, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
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[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
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:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
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::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
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::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
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::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
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:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
  
== Documenting langtag usages on LL ==
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=== ratelimited ===
:See [[Help:Langtags]] and  Wikipedia [[:en:Language code#Common_schemes|Language code#Common_schemes]]
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:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''
In our [[Help:Main]], we surely could have a page [[Help:Langtags|Help:Langtags (Languages codes and LinguaLibre)]] to expose our current / planned approaches on the matter. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:23, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
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[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning
:[[Help:Langtags|Help:Langtags (Languages codes and LinguaLibre)]] have been initiated. So, for now we are based on LL Qid, ok. Then,
+
{| class="wikitable"
:# Should these local LL pages contain ISO 639-3 and BCP47 properties, or should they go into the Wikidata page ONLY ? Or both.
+
|
:# Audios files could contains all these as metadata tags. Should they ?
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<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited
:# If someone could forge a [[Help:SPARQL|SPARQL query]] which list all our active languages on LL, with English name, LL-qid, WD-qid, ISO 639-3, BCP47, it could be an helpful conversion table. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:50, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
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Object:
 +
  *: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."
 +
  code:"ratelimited"
 +
  info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...
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|}
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I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
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:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
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:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
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:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
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:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
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:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:
 +
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files
 +
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]
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:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]
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:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
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::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !
 +
::{| class="wikitable"
 +
|
 +
;Rate limits
 +
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].
 +
|}
 +
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
  
== Support variants of Romansh ==
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=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===
  
Would it be possible to add support for the various variants of the Romansh language?
+
Bonjour,
 +
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français.
 +
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :
 +
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812
 +
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :
 +
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198
 +
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]
 +
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
  
In the [https://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry/language-subtag-registry IETF BCP47 language subtag registry], rm-rumgr is the language code for Rumantsch Grischun; rm-surmiran for Rumantsch Surmiran; rm-sutsilv for Rumantsch Sutsilvan; rm-sursilv for Rumantsch Sursilvan; rm-vallader for Rumantsch Vallader; rm-puter for Rumantsch Puter.
+
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===
 +
:{{done}}
 +
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata).
 +
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
 +
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
  
In Wikidata, rm-rumgr is Q688873; rm-surmiran is Q690216; rm-sutsilv is Q688272; rm-sursilv is Q688348; rm-vallader is Q690226; rm-puter is Q688309.
+
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===
 +
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 +
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
  
In Wikimedia commons, the category tags are subtags of [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Romansh_pronunciation Category:Romansh_pronunciation] but they are not very organized; I’ll gladly create new categories if needed.
+
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==
 +
:{{done}}
 +
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
 +
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
 +
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
  
I’m currently uploading a couple thousand [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sursilvan_pronunciation Sursilvan pronunciations], such as [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rm-sursilv-acceptar_enzatgei.flac “acceptar ezatgei”]. It would be great to use LinguaLibre for recording additional variants of the Romansh language, and for recording the missing Sursilvan words. Your toolchain is so much nicer than [https://github.com/brawer/PronunBot my bot], so I’d love to switch over. :-)
+
== Datasets out of date ==
 +
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
  
See also [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T210293 Phabricator ticket T210293] for a related request to support them for monolingual text in Wikidata, which isn’t really related to LinguaLibre but might be interesting as context.
+
== How much to record at once? ==
 +
:{{done}}
 +
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
  
— [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 20:18, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
+
== Pages translation ==
:@[[User:Sascha|Sascha]] it's done!
+
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
:Note that the Wikidata Qid is enough, we have a script that extract automatically every other needed informations from Wikidata :).
+
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
:Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 09:26, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
::For easy access:  
+
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
::* [[:wikidata:Q688309]] : [[Q74907]]: Putèr : rm-puter
+
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)
::* [[:wikidata:Q690226]] : [[Q74906]]: Vallader : rm-vallader
+
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:
::* [[:wikidata:Q688348]] : [[Q74905]]: Sursilvan : rm-su'''r'''silv
+
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)
::* [[:wikidata:Q688272]] : [[Q74904]]: Sutsilvan : rm-su'''t'''silv
+
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code>
::* [[:wikidata:Q690216]] : [[Q74903]]: Surmiran : rm-surmiran
+
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small>
::* [[:wikidata:Q688873]] : [[Q74902]]: Rumantsch Grischun : rm-rumgr
+
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created:
::So from this live import of pointers~examples I understand how we are rolling : most properties are in wikidata only ;) (It answer my question 1. in section above)
+
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
::Thanks to 0x010C ! [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:57, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
::Thank you! — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 14:59, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== Chakma ==
+
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==
[[File:Screenshot 2019-01-10-22-28-54.jpg|thumb|Audio screenshot]]
 
  
I’ve tried to add support for the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakma_language Chakma language] by adding https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Q74105. My Chakma contact (Bivuti Chakma, bsereye@hotmail.com) was able to record Chakma pronunciations, but he reports that the final step (uploading the files to Wikimedia servers) has failed. Probably it’s my fault; I should have asked you instead of trying to do this myself... Apologies for the nuisance, and thanks for your help. [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 14:52, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
  
: Hi I am Bivuti Chakma from Bangladesh. I am working on my language to implement in technology over the globe.
+
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==
: In you site I have recorded some audio, it's not publish accurately, why?
+
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
: In this regard I include screenshot of audio.
 
: Thanks, Bivuti
 
::It is not clear to me now, but it seems that creating language "by hand" does not work. So I imported https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Q75180. [[Help:Add_a_new_language]] should be updated. Bivuti, could you try again on few words and copy here any error message you get. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:42, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
== Compress audio? ==
+
{| class="wikitable sortable"
 +
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)
 +
|-
 +
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%
 +
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"
 +
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE
 +
| 0% so far
 +
|-
 +
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain
 +
|-
 +
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. ||  Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%
 +
|-
 +
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%
 +
|-
 +
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%
 +
|-
 +
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights ||  Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%
 +
|-
 +
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%
 +
|-
 +
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%
 +
|-
 +
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels.  || 100%
 +
|-
 +
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small>
 +
|-
 +
| colspan=5| <File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]
 +
|}
 +
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
<hr>
 +
Ok! So, I just got a correct phonecall with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br>
 +
Also, he pointed out the following points:
 +
* 0x010C will pass by to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.
 +
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find a freelance to fix this.
 +
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need is '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.
  
Should LinguaLibre upload its pronunciations in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLAC FLAC format] instead of uncompressed Wave files? FLAC is a lossless compression, so it would save space (and bandwidth for users) without losing quality. The only downside is that LinguaLibre’s server would use a bit more CPU, but that’s probably a very minor issue since it’s only needed once per file. To convert to FLAC in maximal compression, you can use something `ffmpeg -i input.wav -compression_level 12 output.flac`. Wikimedia Commons automatically transcodes FLAC to Vorbis and to MP3; see [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rm-sursilv-caschiel.flac example for an uploaded FLAC file]. Just a thought. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 15:09, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :
 +
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report the tetrad :
 +
#* Username : <code>yourusername</code>
 +
#* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code>
 +
#* Web browser : <code>name-version</code>
 +
#* OS : <code>name-version</code>
 +
#* Microphone : <code>built-in|external</code>
 +
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:
 +
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]
 +
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]
  
== Category “Lingua Libre pronunciation-other” ==
+
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre.
  
In this [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q688348-Sascha-test.wav test], LinguaLibre has assigned a Commons category [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation-other Lingua Libre pronunciation-other]. Instead of “other”, could it use the IETF language tag (if present in Wikidata)? To get it, retrieve property [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P305 P305] from the Wikidata record for the language. And perhaps fall back to the Wikidata ID for languages that don’t have an IETF code. Then, the recordings from unrelated languages wouldn’t get conflated. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 15:17, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors.  
  
== Normalize loudness ==
+
Meanwhile, please update the table as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
  
Should LinguaLibre normalize the loudness of recordings to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBU_R_128 EBU R 128], so that pronunciations are perceived equally loud irrespective of user microphones? ffmpeg can do this, either if you call it directly (rather painful), or via the [https://github.com/slhck/ffmpeg-normalize ffmpeg-normalize] wrapper script. It’s also possible to embed metadata with measured loudness, which some (but not all) players recognize; but in the context of LinguaLibre, it might be best to normalize loudness on the server and resample the signal accordingly. — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 16:53, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==
:I would like this normalization for my usages as well, language learning.<br>Note @[[User:Sascha|Sascha]] : relevant ''normalize loudness'', ''denoising'' , ''fading-in-and-out'' cleanups commands to document in [[Help:Main#Download,_clean,_web_use]] > [[Help:SoX]] (to rename?). Denoise, fading not used serverside so far. 0x010C coded the recorder js and can give specifics. I'am of the opinion that such clean up scripts would sooner (server side) or later (after dataset download) come handy. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:33, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Specia:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;)  
::[https://www.google.com/search?q=EBU+R128+LOUDNESS+NORMALISATION+ffmpeg Google:EBU R128 Loudness Normalisation ffmpeg] > [http://peterforgacs.github.io/2018/05/20/Audio-normalization-with-ffmpeg/ Audio Loudness Normalization With FFmpeg], [https://superuser.com/a/323127 Answer: How can I normalize audio using ffmpeg?]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:38, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
+
* Username : <code>yourusername</code>
:If normalization was done before uploading to Wikimedia Commons, all Wikipedia users would benefit (eg. when someone clicks on pronunciation icon on Wikipedia, they’d hear the recording in uniform loudness, denoised, etc.). If normalization is done in utility scripts called by end users, the set of people who benefit from this will be much smaller. The trade-off is that the recordings wouldn’t get preserved in their original form, but that’s probably not much an issue for LinguaLibre? — [[User:Sascha|Sascha]] ([[User talk:Sascha|talk]]) 06:24, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
+
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code>
 +
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code>
 +
* OS : <code>name-version</code>
 +
* Microphone : <code>built-in|external</code>
 +
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
 +
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"
 +
! Tester username || Speeding occurs ? || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type
 +
|-
 +
| <add yourself> || || || ||
 +
|}

Revision as of 18:04, 22 September 2020


Chatroom FAQ

  • How to add missing languages ?
    • Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's iso-639-3 code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see Help:Add a new language.
  • How to archive sections which have been answered ?
    • After reviewing the section, add `{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~` to the top of the section. After some days to 2 weeks, move the sectin's code to LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018.
  • How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?


Custom Commons filename

Sorry if this is obvious.

How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?

For example File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav should ideally be named File:En-au-phonate.ogg. Regards --Commander Keane (talk) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. Pamputt (talk) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--Commander Keane (talk) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more

Dear all,

I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.

For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre

Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :


- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.


- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :

1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website

2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians

3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently

4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible


For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.

In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.


Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6

and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i

you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up


Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...

One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).

Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)

Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada

concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia

Bonjour à toutes et à tous,
Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le dashboard pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.
Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/
Bon courage et amusez-vous bien. --Adélaïde Calais WMFr (talk) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Record Wizard translation

Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. Higa4 (talk) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. 0x010C certainly knows. Pamputt (talk) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. Higa4 (talk) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — 0x010C ~talk~ 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Premier essai

J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam

Les innévitables questions :

  • Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?
  • J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?
  • Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?

En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --Touam (talk) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions
  • Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?
C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par Lingua Libre Bot.
  • J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?
Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de la catégorie me concernant.
  • Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?
Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.
Pamputt (talk) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --Touam (talk) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? Pamputt (talk) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --Touam (talk) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --Touam (talk) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? Pamputt (talk) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --Touam (talk) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? Pamputt (talk) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Bonjour,
Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.
Cordialement, — 0x010C ~talk~ 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --Touam (talk) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. Pamputt (talk) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? (it’s not a bug, it’s a feature sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --Touam (talk) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'uploadeur. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). Pamputt (talk) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Compilation de textes

Bonjour,

Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?

AirSThib (talk) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).

Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? Pamputt (talk) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Bonjour @Pamputt En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. AirSThib (talk), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).
Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert un ticket sur Phabricator pour en garder trace. Pamputt (talk) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

One word, one language, one page

The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.

A possible structure would be:

  • /fr/ would be the home page for French words
  • /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"
  • /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs

A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:

  • /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345
  • /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345


The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.

Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.

In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.

Examples from other sites

Shtooka

Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.

Lingopolo

My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio

Forvo

https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.

Pixabay

https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops

Hi Rugops. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a a Phabricator ticket to think more about your ideas. Pamputt (talk) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
Agree. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.
It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.
One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and Benevolent dictator's drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.
As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) Yug (talk) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined

Bonjour, tout le monde.

Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?

LoquaxFR (talk) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Bonjour,
Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton Retirer les mots déjà enregistré.
Désolé pour le problème :/.
Cordialement — 0x010C ~talk~ 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !
LoquaxFR (talk) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Wikidata

Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. Rodelar (talk) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations.
About Wikidata, I added your request on this Phabricator ticket in order to remember it.
To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options
  1. the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available here. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about oc Wiktionary and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".
  2. the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The T212843 ticket follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.
Cheers Pamputt (talk) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

speedy et / ou delete

Bonjour,
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —Eihel (talk) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard

Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. Pamputt (talk) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. Yug (talk) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX

Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) Yug (talk) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

CSS

  • Check-green.svg Done CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: h2 { margin-top: 1em; })
    I guess we should edit MediaWiki:Common.css to modify that. Pamputt (talk) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
    The best would to make a pull request on the skin's git repository. — 0x010C ~talk~ 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.
    Which icon are you talking about? Pamputt (talk) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
    MediaWiki:Common.css now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks Pamputt & 0x ;) Yug (talk) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
    Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg <- this icon, which we previously CSS integrated. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. Yug (talk) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
    @Yug This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — 0x010C ~talk~ 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Content

Add your comments here. Point to page needing review.

  • Check-green.svg Done LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages (edit SPARQL query)- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.
    Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — 0x010C ~talk~ 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia

Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (details below)

Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:

a. Multiple recordings of the same word

One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now) e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".

  • Thanks for your recordings Psubhashish.
    About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.
    Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --Subhashish Panigrahi (talk) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
    Psubhashish, I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? Pamputt (talk) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
    It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --Subhashish Panigrahi (talk) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
    Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. Pamputt (talk) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
    @Psubhashish Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?
    Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some heteronym, you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".
    Best regards — 0x010C ~talk~ 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

b. Custom-categorization:

There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.

  • About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in T201135.
    Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --Subhashish Panigrahi (talk) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
    This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. Pamputt (talk) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
    @Psubhashish This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — 0x010C ~talk~ 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

c. Custom metadata parameters:

There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --Subhashish Panigrahi (talk) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

  • Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.
    Pamputt (talk) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
    I have added this to Phrabricator (T254241). --Subhashish (talk) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
    See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --Subhashish (talk)

d. Standardized naming:

Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD" format e.g. if the word "color" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --Subhashish (talk)

It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe Lyokoï or Noé could say more about this point. Pamputt (talk) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi @Psubhashish
We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.
  • The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using tricks like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.
  • Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is Q7707309 ;).
By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a consistent naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can safely override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.
(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in standard(?) Odia (WD:Q33810 = LL:Odia (Q336)) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:Q4850727 = LL:Baleswari Oriya (Q322719)), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)
The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/
Best regards — 0x010C ~talk~ 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on Phabricator to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). Pamputt (talk) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Pamputt :) Yug (talk) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — 0x010C ~talk~ 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Bugs

Enregistrements accélérés

Bonjour, Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : coq (Q332977) inadapté (Q332978) participer (Q332979) enfer (Q332980) plausible (Q332981) PHP (Q332982).

PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.

DSwissK (talk) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Salut DSwissK, problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un ticket sur Phabricator à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert un autre à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. Pamputt (talk) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
@DSwissK & Pamputt I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from Luilui6666 for Cantonese, today. Yug (talk) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Contributions > Example (corrupted): Q338365 Yug (talk) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? Yug (talk) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
@Yug We can list such items here. Pamputt (talk) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

ratelimited

Check-green.svg Done See LinguaLibre:User rights, T260649, T245214, Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits, mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits. Test your ratelimit : here.

Luilui6666 also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning

[RequestQueue] Reject ratelimited
Object:
 *: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."
 code:"ratelimited"
 info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...

I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? Yug (talk) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

I do not know either. You should open a Phabricator ticket about this issue. Pamputt (talk) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
@Luilui6666 @Yug @Pamputt This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — WikiLucas (🖋️) 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened T260649 to keep track. Pamputt (talk) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
@Pamputt, WikiLucas00, & 0x010C the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? Yug (talk) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
@Pamputt I searched in the following without success:
I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. Yug (talk) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
@Pamputt Found it in Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits !
Rate limits

Normal users on Commons are rate limited to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted image-reviewer, patroller, or autopatrolled status have a ratelimit of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at COM:RFR.

It mentions mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits. This "380 uploads" match the "around 400 uploads" described by User:Luilui6666. Yug (talk) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan

Bonjour, J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français.

  • Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :

Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812

  • Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :

Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198 Guilhelma

J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au ticket Phabricator qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. Pamputt (talk) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Ajouter la langue Mozabite

Check-green.svg Done

Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --Arha06 (talk) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

@Arha06 bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le mozabite sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. Pamputt (talk) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Adding list from Wikidata

Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks Jason.nlw (talk) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Jason.nlw, as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a feature request on Phabricator. Pamputt (talk) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
  • The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta) (কথা) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Adding list into RecordWizard

Check-green.svg Done

Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? Julien Baley (talk) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Julien, it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into List:Fra/Julien Baley (for example); each word is separated by #. Pamputt (talk) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? Julien Baley (talk) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples here. Pamputt (talk) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
@Julien Baley please browse Help:Main ;) Yug (talk) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Datasets out of date

Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? Julien Baley (talk) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a Phabricator ticket about this issue. Pamputt (talk) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

How much to record at once?

Check-green.svg Done

Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? Julien Baley (talk) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

@Julien Baley I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. Pamputt (talk) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
@Julien Baley The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. Yug (talk) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. Yug (talk) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Pages translation

I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see Special:ListGroupRights). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like this in the future? — WikiLucas (🖋️) 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

@WikiLucas00 indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on Phabricator. About, LinguaLibre:Requests for rights, the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D Pamputt (talk) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
@Pamputt I created a task on Phabricator. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — WikiLucas (🖋️) 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
On user rights, I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates". (We depend on Commons)
@Titodutta As I understand it we dependent upon Commons for upload rights. Each mediawiki as build in groups such as users, autopatrolled, admin, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:
  • user group's upload right: "user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 } (72 mins)
  • autopatrolled group's upload righ: "autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }
Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the autopatrolled group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month (I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).
Can we tell Commons API's "Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>" or should we specifically ask for userights there via Commons:Requests_for_rights and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get Autopatrolled users so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group users) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created:
  • LinguaLibre:User rights, a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and ratelimit. Yug (talk) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
  • For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta) (কথা) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ?

Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après une demande sur Twitter, mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? Lyokoï (talk) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. Yug (talk) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
J'ai ouvert un ticket sur Phabricator. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. Pamputt (talk) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

0x010C year offgrid : preparations

Hello folks, 0x010C anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our benevolent lead developer. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. Yug (talk) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Critical Task / Aspect Requirement ? Who else knows ?
Who wish to learn ?
Satisfy
requirements (%)
high Edit recording wizard JS library 1. Has advanced javascript know how.
2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}
3. Edit and test js code locally .
4. Has access rights to push.
None or Nicolas Vion ? 0% or 60%
high Server maintenance 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge
2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).
3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.
4. Knows how to restart NGINX server
NEEDS SOMEONE 0% so far
high Deploying fix into production 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge
2. Has access rights to server.
3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.
4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy.
WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) Uncertain
low - assumed very stable LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.
Well documented on mw:API.
2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.
3. Can test locally.
4. Has access rights to push.
Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? 10%
low Update site's CSS 1. Edit MediaWiki:Common.css (hack)
or
1. Edit {git repository page}.
Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... 30%
high Add new language to LinguaLibre 1. Has administrator user rights
2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here}
Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... 90%
medium Github repository manager 1. Have access to repository {link here}.
2. Has owner status.
3. Can manage userrights
Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... 70%
medium Create tasks on Phabricator 1. Have account on phabricator.
2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.
3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks
Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... 70%
high Read Phabricator task, fix code 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.
2. Edit code, test locally.
4. Has access rights to push.
No replacement for real code, code deployment.
Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes.
30%
medium Assign user rights 1. Has bureaucrats status
2. Know how to assign new user rights.
Special:ListUsers/sysop: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.
Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels.
100%
Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre.
<File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]
Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. Pamputt (talk) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and pollute existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. Yug (talk) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Ok! So, I just got a correct phonecall with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.
Also, he pointed out the following points:

  • 0x010C will pass by to add pointers to the table above and answer questions.
  • 0x010C will not be able to inspect the speeding-up bug : we need to find a freelance to fix this.
  • 0x010C underlined the most critical need is a server sysop, able to do server maintenance. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.

First, on the speeding-up bug, we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :

  1. Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report the tetrad :
    • Username : yourusername
    • Speeding bug : true|false
    • Web browser : name-version
    • OS : name-version
    • Microphone : built-in|external
  2. Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:

Secondly, on the critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre.

While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors.

Meanwhile, please update the table as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. Yug (talk) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Speeding-up bug : call for testers

Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to Specia:RecordWizard, pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;)

  • Username : yourusername
  • Speeding bug : true|false
  • Web browser : name-version
  • OS : name-version
  • Microphone : built-in|external

Yug (talk) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Tester username Speeding occurs ? Web browser + version OS + version Microphone type
<add yourself>