https://lingualibre.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Languageseeker&feedformat=atomLingua Libre - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T08:46:45ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.2https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=765835LinguaLibre:Chat room2022-06-07T15:48:33Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Results of Coverage Test of French Lemma and Non-Lemma forms is English Wiktionary */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
{{Lang-CR}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
{{LL:Chat room/FAQ}}<br />
__TOC__<br />
<!-- **** DO NOT EDIT CONTENT ABOVE **** --><br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publish on Wikimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just tested, but my records are not published on Commons. My tests: on Firefox, then on Chrome, with 50, then with 1 expression (s), with license CC3.0-BY-SA and CC1.0. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 06:51, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[[File:LiLi April 2021 - Publish on Wikimedia Commons.png|thumb|Problème de publication sur Wikimedia Commons]]<br />
:[[phab:T281636]] —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 07:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Usually I have the same with the first two recordings in a session. Then I can upload them again at the end. Try again with more recordings, and using "retry filed upload" button. [[User:Poemat|Poemat]] ([[User talk:Poemat|talk]]) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: Yup, I had this bug many times. (I say "had" because I don't remember having encountered it after the fire incident.) Just don't give up and it should be published eventually. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::(As of 3 May 2021 and as I checked, I'm not aware of any code changes ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/commits/master history]) which may have of affected this. Seb35 made some other code change this same day.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
I add a user who has the same problem: {{u|Le Commissaire}}. —[[User:Eihel-LiLi|Eihel-LiLi]] ([[User talk:Eihel-LiLi|talk]]) 15:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Bonjour {{ping|Seb35}}, Faudrait voir avec {{u|Le Commissaire}} si le problème persiste aussi (avant de clore le ticket Phab. Sincères salutations. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 10:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::J’ai mis un message à Le Commissaire sur sa page de discussion.<br />
::::::Le problème que vous avez eu était spécifique à votre compte, c’est peut-être arrivé à d’autres personnes mais ça semble assez rare. Aussi, à partir du moment où un utilisateur a réussi à faire un envoi vers Commons, alors c’est un problème différent du vôtre ([[:phabricator:T275957|celui-ci, qui ressemble mais l’erreur est intermittente]]). Plus globalement, il faudrait que le message d’erreur soit explicite plutôt que d’aller à chercher dans la console du navigateur, je vais ouvrir un ticket Phabricator en ce sens. [[User:Seb35|Seb35]] ([[User talk:Seb35|talk]]) 10:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exclusion lists ==<br />
If anyone uses the regularly updated [[user:Olafbot|Olafbot's]] lists of wanted words ([[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]], etc.), and spotted an item that should be removed without recording, you can use the brand new exclusion lists to remove it. For example on the list [[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]] there was the word "abandonar", which apparently doesn't belong to the contemporary French corpus. Having added it on the exclusion list (here: [[user:Olafbot/exclusion list/Fra]]) the bot knows this item should never appear in French lists it maintains, and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries&diff=619214&oldid=606068 removes it] during the next update. <br />
<br />
Each "Lemmas without audio" list ({{Olafbot-wikt}}) has a corresponding exclusion list ({{Olafbot-exclusion}}). I hope it will help.<br />
<br />
Normally I would add a link to the exclusion list in a description of each lemmas list, but unfortunately, Lingua Libre engine doesn't allow adding any kind of comments or descriptions to lists, so this ad is the only way to spread a word about the new functionality. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}} Thank you so much for this useful new function! Indeed, the Record Wizard does not yet understand comments, categories nor templates on List pages, but this will be considered for future updates. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 18:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ajout d'une nouvelle langue ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour !<br />
<br />
Je souhaite ajouter la langue Q3196953 mais en suivant la [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Help:Add_a_new_language/fr procédure], je ne vois pas LinguaImporter. Quelqu'un peut-il me dire pourquoi?<br />
<br />
Cdt,<br />
BamLifa<br />
: {{ping|BamLifa}} c'est parce que tu n'es pas administrateur. Je viens d'importer le {{Q|646152}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, merci beaucoup pour cette précision. Si cette option n'est réservée qu'aux admins, pourquoi en parler dans la doc sans cette précision ? En plus, vue la multitude des langues que nous avons qui n'existent pas encore chez Lingua libre, ne pensez-vous pas que vous devriez simplifier cette tâche ? J'ai encore une autre langue à ajouter, le Bira (bila). [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 12:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|BamLifa}} c'est indiqué sur cette page (c'est même le titre de la section (Outil pour les administrateurs)). Je ne me rappelle pas pourquoi c'est réservé aux admins mais ça limite au moins les vandales qui voudraient importer des choses qui ne sont pas des langues. Bref, j'ai importé le {{Q|656403}} et le {{Q|656404}}. Si ce ne sont pas les bonnes langues, peux-tu me donner le code ISO 639-3 correspondant (ou au moins l'identifiant Wikidata) ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Merci beaucoup. [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 05:34, 22 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lists still don't work properly ==<br />
<br />
{{Ping|WikiLucas00}} {{Ping|Poslovitch}} It's better than [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Lists_stopped_working|before]], but still, sometimes the Record Wizard hangs when a list is chosen.<br />
Then I have to reload the page, and try again. Usually the second or the third time of trying the same list, it starts to work.<br />
Probably a race condition. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}}It also happens to me sometimes, but I think that it could be related to the button for removing words you already recorded. When you load a list of words you never recorded (typically Olafbot's lists), ticking the button seems to kill the loading. Best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 10:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you. Indeed, with this switch unchecked everything seems to work. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 16:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liste des mots à prononcer ==<br />
<br />
Salut ! Existe-t-il une page où des mots peuvent être ajoutés pour qu'un bon samaritain puisse parler ? [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 11:30, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|Vivaelcelta}}, les listes sont faites pour cela. Vous pouvez [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Create_your_own_lists|créer votre propre liste]] qui pourra ensuite être enregistrée par n'importe qui. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci {{u|Pamputt}}. — [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 22:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Projet Outils pour la patrouille ==<br />
:''See [[LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol assistance tool prototyping project]].''<br />
{{LangSwitch<br />
|fr=Salut,<br />
<br />
cette semaine commence un projet menés par des étudiants des formations IARF-RODECO de l’Université Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier concernant le prototypage d’outils de patrouille. Je suis, assisté par Adélaïde Calais, le superviseur de ce projet. Les étudiants sont en informatique avec une spécialisation en intelligence artificielle. L’idée est de leur faire prototyper (voire développer) des outils pour aider la patrouille de Lingua Libre en détectant automatiquement toutes sortes de problèmes. Nous avons déjà identifier quelques problèmes : clics, grésillements, bruits parasites et mauvaises prononciations (libellés et enregistrements pas raccord).<br />
<br />
Et nous avons besoin de la communauté sur deux points : <br />
# y a-t-il d’autres problèmes auxquels vous pensez ?<br />
# nous avons besoin, pour que les étudiants puissent travailler, d’enregistrements avec défauts. Si vous les avez réenregistrés, c’est pas grave, Commons a un historique. N’hésitez pas à nous communiquer les enregistrements qui ont ou avaient des défauts !<br />
<br />
Enfin, j’ai créé une page de projet accessible [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|ici]] (page traduite).<br />
<br />
(Si certain·es peuvent traduire ce message en anglais, c’est super cool.)<br />
<br />
À+,<br />
|en=Hi,<br />
<br />
This week, a project lead by student of University Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier is starting. It will be about the prototyping of patrolling tools. I supervise this project, assisted by Adélaïde Calais. The students study computer science with a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. The aim is to have them prototyping (or even developing) tools to help Lingua Libre's patrol, by automatically detecting any kind of mistake/error related to the files. We already identified a few types of mistakes: clicks, crackles, pops and labelling issues (wrong label/wrong language).<br />
<br />
We need the community on two points : <br />
# are there other problems you could think of? <br />
# we need some recordings having issues, in order for the students to be able to work. If you already recorded them again, it is not a big deal, Commons has a file history. Don't hesitate to provide us the files that have or had problems.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I created a project page, available [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|here]].<br />
<br />
See you,}}<br />
[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 09:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], Translated page —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 19:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], [[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde]], could you specify the dates for this project ? <br />
::Also, were your point 1 and two answered by the community somewhere ? (If not I could give it a try) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug}} Hi, I updated the project page with the dates. And I didn’t get any answers to my questions. [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 11:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rashidun Caliphate ==<br />
<br />
Hello {{ping|Zinou2go}},<br />
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q13955_(ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة_الراشدة.wav LL-Q13955 (ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة الراشدة.wav] is problematic (currently {{Q|Q204439}} on LiLi): it contains several cuts (clicks). I proposed the file for deletion in Commons. The recordings seem to be working better, could you record Rashidun Caliphate again? I didn't check the other records, but they are likely to have "clicks" as well. Also, can an admin delete this item on LiLi, please? Cordially. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Eihel}} Please do not nominate files for deletion before asking for the speaker to record it again and waiting a while for their answer. Also, these recordings will come useful for the team currently working on the audio issues of Lingua Libre, so we'd better not delete them (I thought you read my messages on Discord about this). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{Ping|WikiLucas00}}, J'ai enlevé la suppression sur Commons. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Code of Conduct ==<br />
Hi everyone, I just noticed again MediaWiki's [[:mw:Code of Conduct]] (2015) and Wikimedia Foundation's [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02). Back in 2015, 0x010C included the first one as a condition to contribute to [https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard RecordWizard's codebase]. As far as I know, Lili.org and its community, so far, [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Code+of+conduct has no Code of Conduct]. We may be ''implicitely'' binded by it or by some Wikimedia France's Code of Conduct, but it would be cleaner to ''explicitly'' adopt one and display it here, in written. We could therefor do the following :<br />
# Short round to confirm with have nothing in place so far.<br />
# Vote for 2 months to adopt the most recent [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02)<br />
# Copy the text into [[LinguaLibre:Universal Code of Conduct]].<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Pre-discussion ===<br />
Do we already have a Code of Conduct binding LinguaLibre ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Vote ===<br />
''Are you for or against adopting the [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021) as a code of conduct for LinguaLibre's community ?''<br><br />
''Possible votes : {{tl|support}} • {{tl|weak support}} • {{tl|weak oppose}} • {{tl|oppose}}''<br />
* {{Support}} (proposer) — better to be explicit, have a framework in place, just to be clear to all on where we stand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre website should be more appealing to Language Learners ==<br />
:''See also [https://forvo.com Forvo.com].''<br />
It would be useful if LinguaLibre follows the example of Forvo to increase the number of language learners interested in the Project.<br />
<br />
Forvo.com has a way of displaying the information that engage users and makes it very easy to find pronunciations. <br />
<br />
For example, if someone wants to learn how to pronounce "Honoré de Balzac" in French, it would be faster to find the audio on Forvo than on LinguaLibre. Also, Forvo displays the data in a way more appealing to language learners:<br />
* https://forvo.com/search/Honoré_de_Balzac/<br />
* https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Honoré+de+Balzac<br />
'''Would it be possible to improve the way that data is displayed on LinguaLibre to make it more appealing to Language Learners ?'''<br />
''In such way, the number of active users recording audios would increase significantly.'' -- [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]]<br />
:Some people previously reported such "issue". There is a [[phab:T252319|ticket]] on Phabricator to keep this in mind. However, the priority is currently given to develop patrol tools for Lingua Libre and we do not expect to see major improvements related to the audio brosing in the coming months (at least if we have no more external developers). I think it is like this because Lingua Libre has been though so that it helps for recording, not for listening; the second is let to the other Wikimedia projects, mainly Wiktionaries et Wikidata. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::YES ! There are oral discussions and proposals in this direction, but LinguaLibre being a volunteers-based team, we are moving slowly. Forvo is a for-profit entity, it locks the copyright and resale of recordings made on its platform to the speaker-creator and to themselves, to then sell those recordings with a profit. They therefor have money and swift decision-making to sustain their UI/UX efforts. We are shorter on those sides. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Sound Library's forking and hacking ===<br />
'''On the [[LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library|Sound Library]] side''', I was able to duplicate/fork it, which allows to start hack its CSS. Copy those codes into your own namespace :<br />
* [[User:Yug/common.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/common.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]] → [[Special:MyPage/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]]<br />
In those codes, you then have to replace all occurrences of "Yug" by your username, and it's should work. You can start hacking toward a more elegant interface. Note: the JS copy is in your *personal* JS and has a "stop" condition so the various JS instances won't fight. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allow recording only in the user's Native Language to avoid passing "mispronunciations" to Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
I started a discussion on the German Wiktionary because some words on LinguaLibre are not available on the DeWikt. The German Community told me that LinguaLibre adds words into Commons, but the Bot only accepts audios from “few” trusted users using a filter. <br />
<br />
The English and German Wiktionaries use a bot called "DerbethBot" to add audios from Commons. However, the English Wiktionary community asked to block Lingua Libre's recordings because there were non-native speakers recording audios and the Bot had no way to differentiate them from Native speakers. After the audios were introduced in the English Wiktionary they had to forbid adding audios from LinguaLibre:<br />
<br />
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2020/July#Labeling_non-native_audio<br />
<br />
I believe that it is necessary to avoid giving “mispronunciations” to Wictionaries. That is similar to vandalism on a Wiktionary if the reader doesn't know that it is hearing a bad pronunciation and believes that it is “native speaker”:<br />
<br />
''Some suggestions:''<br />
1) Would it be possible to name the audios files to specify if the speaker is a native or not? For example, if a French speaker records the word "maison" it could be named '''"maison-fr-native.ogg"''' . If a language learner records the same word : '''"maison-fr-learner.ogg"'''<br />
<br />
2) A radical way to address the issue would be to only allow to record in one's native language. Of course, users could change it, but strong warnings could be added and always remind people to record only their native language. Forvo seems to take this approach.<br />
<br />
It might be valuable for Linguists to have recordings of non-native speakers to study their accent features in an L-2 Language. However, in my humble opinion the pronunciations added to Wiktionary should be only native speakers and bots should have a way to differentiate them.<br />
<br />
Link to the German Wiktionary discussion about LinguaLibre: <br />
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Teestube#:~:text=von%20technischer%20seite%20gibt%20es%20keinem%20problem%2C%20zwei%20bots%20auf%20de.wiktionary%20arbeiten%20zu%20lassen.<br />
:Hi, this depends on the Wikitionary policy, and it could be different from a language to another one. Anyway, it is already possible to select only recordings done by native speaker. To do that, the speaker has to fill the {{P|16}} property ith the value {{Q|15}} (see for example {{Q|466}}). Other values for {{P|16}} are given [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q5|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sursilvan ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
[[Special:Contributions/Franz.Roos.1955|User:Franz.Roos.1955]] made 2 recordings in [[:en:wp:Sursilvan]] : rauna ([[Q689785]]), tschitta ([[Q689786]]). Sursilvan has no iso code. Do we have a procedure for such languages ? (I forgot if the case already shown up). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:There is not issue. It simply uses the Wikidata identifier when there is no ISO code. Se for example {{Q|1186}}. To record in such languages, we have to create an item for this language/dialect on Lingua Libre, and this is already done for {{Q|74905}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Thank Pamputt for the clarification. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[commons:commons:structured data]] ==<br />
<br />
I've been very pleased with LL's tooling, that does so much of the process of uploading to Commons, sensible naming, description-writing, and categorisation for me; however, I have an idea for an additional step LL could automate. This is in Commons' no-longer-so-new structured data section, which manifests (among other ways) as a tab on the file page.<br />
<br />
As an example of what could be automatically added to a file's datastore, there is a property called 'audio transcription' which serves a similar role to Commons' TimedText subtitle functionality (silly example: [[commons:TimedText:051226-kakapo-billbooming.ogg.en.srt]]) but for shorter clips -- in other words, seemingly designed with applications like LinguaLibre in mind.<br />
<br />
Since these are of the so-called 'monolingual text' datatype, the source language can be specified (or where not part of the main set of languages Wikimedia uses, the special code 'mis' is used and 'language of work or name' used as a qualifier) at the same time as the actual text that is being spoken, which LL has access to since the audio file started out as a text prompt!<br />
<br />
What think y'all? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 04:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Arlo Barnes}} there is [[phab:T239272|Phabricator ticket]] about this topic. Currently there are not yet all properties on Wikidata to fit all Lingua Libre properties. For example, I [[d:Wikidata:Property proposal/language level|proposed to create]] a property for the language level of a speaker but it did not get enough support. SO I guess, we should first list all properties we would like to add on SDC. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [Feature Request] Play next sound automatically while checking recordings ==<br />
<br />
After recording sounds it is important to check them to verify their quality. However, it is very tiring to record 380 words and afterwards have to click 380 times on the ''“Next button”'' while checking them.<br />
<br />
'''After recording, would it be possible to add a button to "Play next sound automatically" ?''' [https://i.imgur.com/XwC34pj.png Screenshot Here] [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, it is already [[phab:T218372|tracked on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "How to use Lingua Libre for your language learning" ==<br />
<br />
I recently found a "new" way to benefit from the sounds on Lingua Libre. I would suggest that it could be advertised on the Lingua Libre main website and on the Wikipedia in French/English:<br />
* [[:en:wp:GoldenDict|GoldenDict]] is a FOSS Dictionary application very valuable for language learners. <br />
<br />
A way to benefit from Lingua Libre recordings is to download the datasets, unzip them and "load" the sounds on GoldenDict (as Sound Directories. [https://i.imgur.com/9avJDgS.png Screenshot here]). In such a way, users have easily an offline "Pronunciation Dictionary". It is very easy to do. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/axRHruk.png screenshot] of how it looks to GoldenDict the French word "fuir". Another example [https://i.imgur.com/Rq0nQCt.png here].<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre sounds can be used with GoldenDict OFFLINE. That is a huge advantage in developing countries, where language learners often do not have reliable internet connection.<br />
<br />
''It would be valuable to create a description on the Lingua Libre website about'' '''"How to use Lingua Libre sounds for your language learning"''' .<br />
<br />
There it would be possible to describe how to use the audios offline with GoldenDict, etc. If more methods are developed (Anki add-on), better GUI, Android App, etc. they could be explained there.--[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:1) '''Reuse of datasets :''' Yes ! Dataset download and reuse must be showcasted and strengthened. I think a "Reuses gallery" page could be created, with screenshot and minimal how-to for GoldenDict, Anki and others.<br />
:2) '''Anki:''' You are the 4th or 5th contributor to rise the need for an Anki add-on. We need to do something on this side, yes. It's more than 1~2 days work and too big for a volunteer work, so we need to apply for a grant. I'am looking in and mapping our options at the moment ({{tl|Grants table}}). At one point we have to jump in and design a project, yes.<br />
:3) For '''e-learning app''', a 5k€ project was designed by myself a year ago. The funding by local regional government was declined, but it could easily be refreshed.<br />
:We have to redesign some projects and apply in early 2022. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::The core question is the Human Resources. <br />
::'''*Daily routines*''' keeps WikiLucas, Pamputt, Poslovitch and myself –aka the community-side contributors— busy maintaining the place, welcoming and guiding new users, cleaning pages, etc. We are now quite smooth, successful and stable on this side.<br />
::To '''*push forward*''' on developments, UI, tools, e-learning, communication, grants, we each have one or two side projects in mind, pushing those <u>''slowly''</u>. But as always in FOSS projects the task ahead is much larger and we could achieve much more with more human resources.<br />
::'''Overall''', it's possible we are at a new turning right now. As things are stable, with road maps available, '''we just need 1 to 3 new coordinators and communicants contributors to tip the dynamic into forward-offensive mode''', with communication therefor new arrivals, new speakers, new devs, new coordinators and really push forward with new events/workshop, funds and SMART features. <br />
::@[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]], I'am currently writing down structuring "community how to" to ease new contributor's jumping in (see [[LinguaLibre:Roles]], [[LinguaLibre:Workshops]], {{tl|Grants table}}). You are doing a nice push on communication (It's FOSS) and with your questions you are mapping out Lili's needs. Pamputt and WikiLucas are following our progresses. All this is pretty interesting. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would like to work on the "Public Relations" Department of LinguaLibre! - EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) : '''Any PR campaign would fail miserably if there is no search function.''' I explain the reasons at the end of this section: [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]]<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 23:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Sound good :) Your outreach to YouTubers and popular FOSS blogs is spot on.<br />
::I am back from a wikibreak, I am cleaning up some last pages, then since the maintenance side is stable I would like to focus my energy on projects design –recording rare languages, technology, PR campaign– and associated grant requests to secure funding and the actual realization of those visions. We can collaborate. You lead on the PR : design your campaign. I can review and help it to fit some Grants formats. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I created a new wiki page in the "events" section of a "PR Campaign for 2022". Please visit [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]] and participate in the discussion with new ideas. EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) I will NOT contribute anymore to a PR campaign. the reasons are explained as comment on the relevant section [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 21:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating a LL catgory for a dialect ==<br />
<br />
Would be grateful if someone could tell me if it's possible to create a LL category for a dialect?<br />
<br />
We're working in Konkani, which has its own (but small) Wikipedia at http://gom.wikipedia.org Under Konkani, there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. <br />
<br />
Would like to create a category for Saxtti (the Salcete dialect of Konkani). This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. Also, it would allow the recordings of many others which might have already been done in Konkani as a how.<br />
<br />
Question: How do we create space for the dialects of a language? <br />
<br />
Thanks very much, in advance! --[[User:Fredericknoronha|Fredericknoronha]] ([[User talk:Fredericknoronha|talk]]) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello {{ping|Fredericknoronha}} and welcome to Lingua Libre. I imported {{Q|700683}} (gom) as it was not on Lingua Libre yet. On Lingua Libre, dialects are treated the same way as languages. You can create an element for your dialect on Wikidata (example for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35359 auvergnat dialect]) and tell us once it is ready, so that we can import it on Lingua Libre with an admin tool. You can also directly create an element for your dialect on Lingua Libre, following the steps described at [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Add_a_new_language|Help:Add a new language]] and taking example of {{Q|1186}}. Don't hesitate to ping an admin if you have any questions.<br />
:All the best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::''« there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. […] This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. »''<br />
::If the writing are similar but only the pronunciation differs depending on where the speaker comes from, it looks like different accents.<br />
::Recordings are specific to a word, a language and a speaker. Which means me recording in French the word "bonjour" will be one audio file on Lili. WikiLucas can record in French the same word "bonjour", it will create an other audio file on Lili. My recording(s), since i come from the South West, will carry the southern accent. Recordings by WikiLucas, who lives 700km East of me, will cary the Lyon area accent. Lingualibre will store 2 recordings, one per user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Hello {{u|Fredericknoronha}}, I have imported {{Q|701734}} so that you can now record words in that dialect. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Feedback about Lingua Libre by Professor Carol Genetti, PhD ==<br />
<br />
'''Dear Members of Lingua Libre,<br />
'''<br />
I am pleased to share a message from Professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Genetti Carol Genetti], a linguist and leading expert in endangered languages. Professor Genetti is author of one of the best books in the field of Linguistics called "How Languages Work". Her vast knowledge and experience are extremely valuable and after reviewing Lingua Libre she said:<br />
<br />
''Thank you for contacting me and letting me know about this initiative. It is an interesting idea. I especially like the multilingual menus -- very helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Are you aware of [https://www.endangeredlanguages.com/ this website], hosted by the University of Hawaii (and, I believe, funded by Google). So one thing that occurs to me is the proliferation of such sites. How will people in an endangered-language community find out about their options, and then make an informed choice about which of these online resources will be best over time for their communities? Should such efforts cross-reference each other?''<br />
<br />
''My second thought has to do with longevity. It takes a significant commitment to support a site like this over time. The challenge is having someone who can keep such sites funded, working, organized, relevant, and engaging users over time. How will you make sure that the data will be available in 10, 50, 150 years? Maybe you get that automatically by being associated with Wikipedia. If so, state that. Also, there should be a clear statement of how such data might be used, and by whom, so speakers know that if they record a wordlist, someone might use if for some purpose without their permission (is that right?).<br />
''<br />
''I'm sorry to have to bring a down-to-earth message to the inspiration and passion for endangered languages that has clearly fueled this work, but having seen other initiatives stumble in this way, I wanted to be sure that you are thinking about this. Speakers will be entrusting you with such valuable pieces of their lives and their cultures. How will you safeguard this over time? Let people know.<br />
''<br />
''Those issues aside, here are a couple of other comments:''<br />
<br />
* There should be a statement targeted for speakers of endangered languages - why would they want to do this? What is the value for them and their communities? What will happen to the recordings? etc.''<br />
* Will you provide speakers with suggestions for what vocabulary to record, e.g. greetings, colors, verb forms?''<br />
* It would be helpful if it was clear from the large list of languages which ones have recordings. Maybe put those in a different color font?''<br />
* It would be helpful to include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language. Otherwise, someone's grandkids coming to this in 30 years will not know what the words mean.''<br />
* Do you want to move beyond single words to a piece of connected discourse, such as a short poem or story, a song, or the reading of some common text (such as a sentence from the UN Declaration for Linguistic Rights)?''<br />
* Should there be a means to flag inappropriate content?''<br />
<br />
''I hope that you find this helpful. And I'm so glad you liked my book! It is lovely to hear that people have found it helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Carol Genetti''<br />
''Vice Provost for Graduate and Postdoctoral Programs''<br />
''NYU Abu Dhabi''<br />
''(she/her/hers)''<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, this is some interesting feedback.<br />
:* "What will happen to the recordings?": Our homepage lacks such important information. We should plan a redesign for 2022 (inspired by the homepage of [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/ Common Voice]?) so that we finally have a homepage that properly explains what Lingua Libre is and can do.<br />
:* "Suggestions of things to record?": This already exists. They're called Lists. We have some pending improvements on that matter (easier to find and contribute to, etc.)<br />
:* "Show which languages have recordings": The datasets page could help, but I guess it would be interesting to put that on an easy-to-find page (again, like [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/languages Common Voice's languages page]?)<br />
:* "Include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language": we only support "transcription" for now.<br />
:** How could we even "link" the recordings to translations? (Lexemes? Plain text?)<br />
:** Who would have to do that? (the locutor? a dedicated team of contributors?)<br />
:** Where would it be done? (in the RecordWizard?)<br />
:** -> That's an interesting thing to think about, but might be slightly out of scope right now<br />
:* "Sentences, stories, songs...?": Yes, indeed. The Record Wizard is already able to do that (with some config tweaks that have to be done by the locutor), but it would be great to streamline this further. Dedicated UI, ability to record an audiobook (or Wikipedia, Wikisource, Wikinews article) as a mixture of sentences that can be stored locally before being all merged together into one audio file sent to Commons, ability for multiple contributors to work on the same book/article... That's something we should also discuss with the [https://librivox.org/ Librivox] folks: they use Audacity so far, but they might be interested in a tool that's better suited to their needs.<br />
:* "flag inappropriate content?": My insight is focused on technical stuff. This sounds more like some editorial guidelines that would have to be debated by the community.<br />
:* "'''longevity'''?": Should Lingua Libre vanish tomorrow, the audio recordings are not lost. They're all stored on Wikimedia Commons, and that makes them as "immortal" as files stored on hard disks, SSDs, CDs or magnetic bands and mirrored half a dozen times around the world can be. However, I can't say much about our Wikibase, which, at the current time, '''is the only place where all the recordings and locutor-related metadata is stored'''. That's a serious single point of failure. There are no dumps and therefore no mirrorring. We'll definitely have to discuss it with Wikimedia France and the Tech Team.<br />
:Hopefully my answers are clear and comprehensible. I'm pleased to have received feedback from Pr. Genetti. Now it's our turn to take matters in our hands! --[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to delete lists? ==<br />
:{{Done}} <br />
Hello, recently I completed some lists. Now everything is done and those lists are needless. Is there any possibility to delete lists? Greetings --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} hello, admins can delete those lists. The lists you created are [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?target=Onkel+Tomm&namespace=142&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions here]. Which ones should I delete ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Hello Yug, please delete all 8 lists, because they are all finally finished. Thanks. --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 13:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} We are clean ! thank for asking, it keeps the place clean :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Case study ==<br />
Hello all, I noticed a file upload which gather interesting use cases.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Item || Label || Speaker || Account || Filename || Category<br />
|-<br />
| [[Q709231]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q709231&oldid=689510 arch.]) || "Ingenieur" || [[Q674858]] 'fleur' || User:Beat_Ruest || [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] || [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest]]<br />
|-<br />
| — || Mispelling of "Ingénieur" || – || – || Carries the misspelling || Category page was not created, therefor virtually "lost" to Wikimedia Commons and [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
* Question 1: How do we handle mispelling ? I assume renaming ALL THREE of the [[Q709231]]'s label AND Property:P3 'recording' AND Wikimedia file [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] rename. Is that ok or will it break something ?<br />
* Question 2: Category should be automatically created. How do we go for this ? I assume a request on [[LinguaLibre:Bot]]<br />
* Question 3: What about the category by *speaker/voice* ([[Q709231]] 'fleur'), which curently doesn't exist, and which can have multiple speakers with the same name 'fleur' ?<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Question 1: it is a good start. I guess, we need to fix it both on Lingua Libre and on Wikimedia Commons<br />
: Question 2: you speak about categories on Wikimedia Commons? If so, I guess a bot can do it (Lingua Libre Bot or another one).<br />
: Question 3: actually the speaker is identified as "fleur (Beat Ruest)". Only one locutor of Beat Ruest can use the nickname "fleur".<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Q1, Q2 agree.<br />
::Q3 : {{ping|Pamputt}} check the categories on [[:commons:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} you mean the problem is [[:c:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] is categorized in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest" and not in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by fleur (Beat Ruest)" or similar name? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, we dont have categorization by '''speaker''' "Fleur (Beat Ruest)". Low importance, but could be a feature request. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gestion de doublons ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]'' (new, needs review!)<br />
<br />
Bonsoir !<br />
<br />
Il y a-t-il une gestion de doublons dans LL pour les mots d'une même langue ? [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 13:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]], si un même locuteur enregistre le même mot alors l'enregistrement précédent sera écrasé (un même locuteur ne peut enregistrer qu'une seule fois le même mot). En revanche, rien n'empêche l'enregistrement d'un même mot par plusieurs locuteurs et locutrices différentes, c'est même un des objectifs de Lingua Libre : mettre en lumière la diversité des prononciations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] : Comment sont alors gérés les homographes non homophones ? ^^ [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]] ([[User talk:Totodu74|talk]]) 00:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Bonjour [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], il est possible d'ajouter des indications entre parenthèses (cette information est stockée à l'aide de {{P|18}}). Voir par exemple {{Q|1685}} et {{Q|1686}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
:::@[[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], salut, la question des homographes est en partie résolue dans nos langues africaines qui sont essentiellement des langues à tons. --[[User:Rçag|Rçag]] ([[User talk:Rçag|talk]]) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Rçag, could you explain your solution a bit so we learn from it.<br />
:{{Ping|BamLifa|Rçag|Pamputt|Totodu74}} the page [[Help:Homographs]] is there to gather best practices. It's new, review and edits welcome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Comment changer de pseudonyme ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, sur les projets de Wikimedia, mon pseudonyme est Manjiro91 (et anciennement GamissimoYT), comment change-t-on de pseudonyme ?<br />
[[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|GamissimoYT}}. Lingua Libre utilise le même pseudo que celui qui est en utilisation sur Wikimedia Commons. Donc si vous voulez utiliser le pesudonyme Manjiro91, déconnectez-vous de Lingua Libre, puis de Wikimedia Commons. Ensuite, connectez vous à Commons avec le pseudo Manjiro91 et enfin reconnectez vous à Lingua Libre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
{{Notif|Pamputt}} Mon pseudonyme Wikimedia Commons est Manjiro91 (anciennement GamissimoYT mais le changement de pseudonyme ne s'effectue pas sur LiLi. [[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|GamissimoYT}}, tu as bien fait les connexions/déconnexions dans l'ordre que j'ai indiqué ? Si tu es sûr que tu es connecté avec Manjiro91 sur Wikimedia Commons, alors tu peux essayer de te déconnecter de Lingua Libre et te reconnecter dans la foulée. Essayer de vider le cache du navigateur peut peut-être aidé aussi. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging of items about languages ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL]] and [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]].''<br />
Hi y'all,<br />
<br />
For the record, I just merge a couple of items about the same language:<br />
* {{Q|52071}} in {{Q|73}}<br />
* {{Q|139228}} in {{Q|183}}<br />
* {{Q|170137}} in {{Q|359}}<br />
* {{Q|683869}} in {{Q|418}}<br />
* {{Q|646169}} in {{Q|6714}}<br />
* {{Q|570518}} in {{Q|52069}}<br />
* {{Q|538624}} in {{Q|84030}}<br />
* {{Q|646173}} in {{Q|390314}}<br />
* {{Q|646161}} in {{Q|502754}}<br />
* {{Q|570510}} in {{Q|489393}}<br />
<br />
I detected them with this SPARQL query: <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql"><br />
SELECT ?idWD (COUNT(?item) AS ?compte) (GROUP_CONCAT(?item) AS ?items) WHERE {<br />
?item prop:P2 entity:Q4 ; prop:P12 ?idWD .<br />
}<br />
GROUP BY ?idWD<br />
HAVING ( ?compte > 1 )<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
Ping {{ping|WikiLucas00}} it seems you are responsible for some of them...<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks VIGNERON for finding them and cleaning it. Now what to do with recording items that use the doublon language item (for example with [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q52071|Duala]]). I think we must modify {{P|4}} for all recording items so that languages are not counted twice and also to clean up the database (there are also transcription problems for items listed in the Duala example). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you {{ping|VIGNERON}} for pointing these out. As you can see, most of them were not created manually but using the tool (the pages wheighted circa 4kB, with labels in many languages). It seems that the Lingua Importer tool has (or had?) a problem, but I could not reproduce it (trying to import languages that are already in LL wikibase).<br/> During last summer's hackathon we talked a bit about languages in our wikibase, but I can't remember why we need to have language elements in our Wikibase, and not just use the existing base of WikiData 🤔 — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MediaWiki customizations of LinguaLibre ==<br />
<br />
Love the MediaWiki skin of LinguaLibre and I am curious of skin and customizations made. Who are the authors? (can not see credits) --[[User:Zblace|Zblace]] ([[User talk:Zblace|talk]]) 10:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The skin is known as BlueLL. The source code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL github]. It has been developed by Wikimedia France in 2020. That's said, it is true there is no licence and credits on Github. I will ask to {{u|Adélaïde Calais WMFr}} if she remember anything so that I can the missing informations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Zblace}}, this skin's author is [[User:0x010C]], and its opensource. Can be reused freely. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:45, 22 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New property: translation ==<br />
Hello, I've created {{P|38}} to be used in case there is no writing in the recording language but instead a translation in the vehicular language. See for example what I did [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q212431&type=revision&diff=743039&oldid=191330 here] and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q58994&type=revision&diff=743044&oldid=580313 there]. Do you agree with that? Any comment? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:It's a good idea! Many users tend to add a translation as they find it important for other people to have. It will also be handy for cases like your second example, where we only have the translation but not the transcription of the source language: we will be able to query the base to see all audios of a language that have a translation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::I am thinking about a way to populate automatically this property via the Record Wizard. Currently, it seems that the Record Wizard populates {{P|18}} when something is written between brackets (see {{Q|1685}} for example but I have not checked recently). So, if we modify the Record Wizard code, it is possible to recognize this is a translation in another language and so to populate {{P|38}}. But I would like to be sure to propose the best way to do it before asking for such development. The idea is to be managed automatically (or at least not completely manually). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 00:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone ! <br />
<br/>This week, Wikimedia France is preparing its budget for the fiscal year to come : July 2022 to June 2023. If there are things you would like to see done or to do with our help on Lingua Libre, please share it on this page : https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection <br />
<br/>Have a great week-end ! --[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 17:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
: {{u|marreromarco}} Thank you for your suggestions. However, I have some reservations about "Add function to "Request" a Pronunciation to Native Speakers" at this current stage for two reasons. First, this will require quite a bit of moderation to correct requests for grammar and spelling (e.g. HASBAND) as well as remove terrible requests. This will place a large burden on a few users and can easily lead to questionable decisions by moderators. Second, Forvo is flooded with requests that are either overly specific (e.g. "He came back from abyss and won the tie.") and, therefore, likely benefit only one user. IMHO, Rdrg109 proposal to focus on providing pronunciations for entries on the various wiktionaries is a better approach to building up the LL at this point. It will provide a solid foundation for users to find any word in LL. It might be a better time to open up LL to general requests once this project is completed and the community has grown. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 15:49, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to get the city country label in SPARQL ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL]].''<br />
I'm working on an Anki extension for LL, but I'm having a little trouble writing the sparql query. In short, I want to be able to get the city and country for a recording in LL. However, when I query P14, I get the link to the item instead of 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'} or 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'}. Instead I hope to get city:"" and country "France" for the first query city:"Paris" and country:"France" for the second one. Any ideas? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Languageseeker}} thanks for your work on a Anki extension. Could you post here the query you have now? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{u|Pamputt}} . The query that I'm using is a very lightly modified version of the bot query. <br />
<br />
:: <syntaxhighlight lang="sparql">ENDPOINT = "https://lingualibre.org/bigdata/namespace/wdq/sparql"<br />
API = "https://lingualibre.org/api.php"<br />
BASEQUERY = """<br />
SELECT DISTINCT<br />
?record ?file ?transcription ?recorded<br />
?languageIso ?languageQid ?languageWMCode<br />
?residence ?learningPlace ?languageLevel<br />
?speaker ?linkeduser<br />
WHERE {<br />
?record prop:P2 entity:Q2 .<br />
?record prop:P3 ?file .<br />
?record prop:P4 ?language .<br />
?record prop:P5 ?speaker .<br />
?record prop:P6 ?recorded .<br />
?record prop:P7 ?transcription .<br />
?language prop:P13 ?languageIso.<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel .<br />
?speaker prop:P11 ?linkeduser .<br />
?speaker prop:P14 ?residence .<br />
?speaker llp:P4 ?speakerLanguagesStatement .<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llv:P4 ?speakerLanguages .<br />
OPTIONAL { ?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel . }<br />
FILTER( ?speakerLanguages = ?language) .<br />
SERVICE wikibase:label {<br />
bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" .<br />
}<br />
#filters<br />
}"""</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
:: Currently, I'm running it with filters = "" because it seems that a query for a single term takes around 70s, while fetching a single transcription takes about 145 seconds. My plan is to group the results by transcription and then write that into a json file to avoid the costly query. Basically, I need the speaker name, the term, their country, their city, the ISO code of the language, date created, and the filename, languageLevel. <br />
<br />
:: For example, for the term un chien, the json would look like:<br />
:: { "term": {"un chien": {"speaker": "Julien Baley", "language": "fra", "city": "", "country": "France", "recorded": "2020-11-27", "filename": "LL-Q150_(fra)-Julien_Baley-un_chien.wav", "languageLevel": "Q15"}}} [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Download datasets]].''<br />
I wrote a [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader python program] that downloads all the files created by one user. For video files, it downloads the full webm. For audio files, the default is to download the wave file. However, for audio files, you can optionally choose either mp3 or ogg files. Currently, the configuration requires a minor modification of lluad.py. If there is strong demand, I will write a command line parser for it. Please report any bugs or errors on the github page. Feature requests are welcome. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Languageseeker}} please add your tool to [[Help:Download datasets]]. It lists several tools with different specifics, your tool is welcome and may help some Python users as well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:41, 22 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Garbage Values in prop:P14 ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]] and [[Help:SPARQL_for_maintenance#.E2.9C.85_Speakers_.E2.86.92_Undefined_place_of_residence]].''<br />
As part of my Anki project, I queried the entire LL database and I'm trying to parse the output of ?speaker prop:P14 ?residence. I've noticed that there are a number of garbage values in provided for P14, such as Q1, Q2, Q103962887, Q6099648, Strasbourg. There seem to be three cases. <br />
# Users wishing to enter an extremely vague place such as Earth or the Universe. These should be set to None.<br />
# Users accidentally linking to a disambiguation page. These require correction. <br />
# Users not even entering a Wikidata item which require manual correction.<br />
<br />
To solve the root of the problem, I propose that P14 should be restricted to only Wikidata items that exist and have P17. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 21:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Languageseeker}} it's a good find. If you still have that SPARQL query under hand please add it into [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]]. Yes, it's something we should clean up i think. There may be some few case where the speaker dont want to share its location but in 95% of cases i think we can go ahead, correct or ask them to correct it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:39, 26 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:I noticed that when creating a new speaker, place of learning is optional. Not cool. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:32, 27 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|YUG}} For the life of me, I can't get the federated query to work, but I have a separate query to get the location and country labels from wikidata. These are the problematic ones. Note, that Q20 is on the list because Q20 "Norway" is missing P17<br />
<br />
* ['MichaelSchoenitzer', None]<br />
* ['D.Muralidharan', None]<br />
* ['Kaderousse', None]<br />
* ['Krokus', None]<br />
* ['विदुला टोकेकर', 'Q103962887']<br />
* ['DoctorandusManhattan', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Justforoc', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Student16 de', None]<br />
* ['Didierwiki', 'Q6099648']<br />
* ['Sarah2149', None]<br />
* ['DomesticFrog', 'Q1']<br />
* ['Drkanchi', None]<br />
* ['Satdeep Gill', None]<br />
* ['Iwan.Aucamp', 'Q20']<br />
* ['Skimel', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Abeɣzan', None]<br />
* ['Gibraltar Rocks', None]<br />
* ['Bomdapatrick', None]<br />
* ['Ibtissam RAHMOUNI', None]<br />
* ['Trabelsiismail', None]<br />
* ['Ziko', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Youcefelallali', None]<br />
* ['Foxxipeter7', None]<br />
* ['Celevra089', None]<br />
* ['Bodhisattwa', None]<br />
* ['Atudu', None]<br />
* ['KageyamaxNishinoya', 'Q30915818']<br />
* ['Darkdadaah', None]<br />
* ['JayashreeVI', None]<br />
* ['रश्मीमहेश', 'Q103962887']<br />
* ['गीता गोविंद नेने', 'Q103893785']<br />
* ['Awangba Mangang', None]<br />
* ['Abigaljo', None]<br />
* ['FaelDaug', 'Q29423162']<br />
[[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:16, 30 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Anki Extension Release ==<br />
<br />
I just released [https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/124265771 Lingua Libre and Forvo Addon]. It has a number of advanced options to improve search results and can run either as a batch operation or on an individual note.<br />
<br />
By default, it first checks Lingua Libre and, if there are no results on Lingua Libre, it then checks Forvo. To run as a pure Lingua Libre extension, you will need to set "disable_Forvo" to <code>True</code> in your configuration section.<br />
<br />
Please reports bugs, issues, ideas on [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-and-Forvo-Audio-Downloader github]. I would love any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:23, 31 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Results of Coverage Test of French Lemma and Non-Lemma forms is English Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
While playing around with generating lists for pronunciation from Wiktionary, I decided to run a few tests on the current coverage of French lemma and non-lemma forms in English Wiktionary. I choose French because it is the largest datasets in LL.<br />
<br />
Current Coverage of French in Lingua Libre<br />
* Total French Entries in Lingua Libre by a native speaker: 233 982<br />
* Unique French Entries in Lingua Libre by a native speaker: 154 358<br />
* Percentage of overlap: 34%<br />
* Term with the greatest number of pronunciations: "blanc" with 40<br />
<br />
Current Coverage of [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:French_lemmas Category:French lemmas]<br />
* Total entries in Category:French lemmas: 84 482<br />
* Pronounced entries: 50 917<br />
* Entries with pronunciation: 33 565<br />
* Coverage Percentage: 60.27%<br />
<br />
Current Coverage of [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:French_non-lemma_forms Category:French non-lemma forms]<br />
* Total entries in Category:French non-lemma forms: 29 1225<br />
* pronounced entries: 26 791<br />
* Entries with pronunciation: 264 434<br />
* Coverage Percentage: : 9.20%<br />
<br />
For me, there are several lessons to be drawn. <br />
# First, there has been amazing growth on LL. Covering 60.27% percent is a real achievement.<br />
# The overlap percentage is quite small overall.<br />
# There needs to be a clearer sense of when LL should stop requesting pronunciations for a certain term because 40 pronunciations of "blanc" seems a bit excessive.<br />
# A need exists to continue pro-actively targeting entries in Wiktionary that are not in Lingua Libre. Currently, 297 999 French lemma and non-lemma forms require pronunciations. <br />
# Generating lists from Wiktionary and checking coverage is not as hard as I thought.<br />
# Lingua Libre has almost caught up with Forvo in the number of French pronunciations (233 982 vs 254, 703). Overall, Lingua Libre has shown amazing and healthy progress in a very short period of time. I'm excited about these results. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:07, 1 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Languageseeker}} This investigation is pretty cool. (I'm not sure i understand all your numbers yet, but i will read again when back on my PC). Its quite nice to see we are reaching Forvo level for our lead language. It's possible we have more unique words than forvo since we have [[user:Olafbot]] actively guiding and pushing us on that path. <br />
:On Lili we have chosen to be a learning AND linguistic diversity audio database. When you account for gender, regional accents, age, voice type, having 40 french audios for a word is still 400+ voices short.<br />
:Also, all contributors are not able to contribute audio perfect files due to various shortcomings (hardware, no recording room, no noose cancelling system, etc). We lack proper rating and review system. It's on our [slow] roadmap tho. 😉<br />
:PS: Should i answer to you in French i get a feeling you are French or learning it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:07, 1 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
:: {{Ping|YUG}} Salut, Yug. Oui, je suis en train d'apprendre le français. Comme nous avons discutez pendant notre reunion, c'est difficile de definer les limits d'une language. Comme je le vois, les formes lemma ne suffit pas. Maintenant, je suis en train de crée un Olafbot sur steroid pour francais. Mon plan est de réaliser un program python qui peux analyser les modèle utilizer sur Wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 15:48, 7 June 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=765077LinguaLibre:Chat room2022-06-01T03:07:58Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Results of Coverage Test of French Lemma and Non-Lemma forms is English Wiktionary */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
{{Lang-CR}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
{{LL:Chat room/FAQ}}<br />
__TOC__<br />
<!-- **** DO NOT EDIT CONTENT ABOVE **** --><br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publish on Wikimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just tested, but my records are not published on Commons. My tests: on Firefox, then on Chrome, with 50, then with 1 expression (s), with license CC3.0-BY-SA and CC1.0. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 06:51, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[[File:LiLi April 2021 - Publish on Wikimedia Commons.png|thumb|Problème de publication sur Wikimedia Commons]]<br />
:[[phab:T281636]] —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 07:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Usually I have the same with the first two recordings in a session. Then I can upload them again at the end. Try again with more recordings, and using "retry filed upload" button. [[User:Poemat|Poemat]] ([[User talk:Poemat|talk]]) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: Yup, I had this bug many times. (I say "had" because I don't remember having encountered it after the fire incident.) Just don't give up and it should be published eventually. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::(As of 3 May 2021 and as I checked, I'm not aware of any code changes ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/commits/master history]) which may have of affected this. Seb35 made some other code change this same day.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
I add a user who has the same problem: {{u|Le Commissaire}}. —[[User:Eihel-LiLi|Eihel-LiLi]] ([[User talk:Eihel-LiLi|talk]]) 15:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Bonjour {{ping|Seb35}}, Faudrait voir avec {{u|Le Commissaire}} si le problème persiste aussi (avant de clore le ticket Phab. Sincères salutations. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 10:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::J’ai mis un message à Le Commissaire sur sa page de discussion.<br />
::::::Le problème que vous avez eu était spécifique à votre compte, c’est peut-être arrivé à d’autres personnes mais ça semble assez rare. Aussi, à partir du moment où un utilisateur a réussi à faire un envoi vers Commons, alors c’est un problème différent du vôtre ([[:phabricator:T275957|celui-ci, qui ressemble mais l’erreur est intermittente]]). Plus globalement, il faudrait que le message d’erreur soit explicite plutôt que d’aller à chercher dans la console du navigateur, je vais ouvrir un ticket Phabricator en ce sens. [[User:Seb35|Seb35]] ([[User talk:Seb35|talk]]) 10:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exclusion lists ==<br />
If anyone uses the regularly updated [[user:Olafbot|Olafbot's]] lists of wanted words ([[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]], etc.), and spotted an item that should be removed without recording, you can use the brand new exclusion lists to remove it. For example on the list [[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]] there was the word "abandonar", which apparently doesn't belong to the contemporary French corpus. Having added it on the exclusion list (here: [[user:Olafbot/exclusion list/Fra]]) the bot knows this item should never appear in French lists it maintains, and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries&diff=619214&oldid=606068 removes it] during the next update. <br />
<br />
Each "Lemmas without audio" list ({{Olafbot-wikt}}) has a corresponding exclusion list ({{Olafbot-exclusion}}). I hope it will help.<br />
<br />
Normally I would add a link to the exclusion list in a description of each lemmas list, but unfortunately, Lingua Libre engine doesn't allow adding any kind of comments or descriptions to lists, so this ad is the only way to spread a word about the new functionality. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}} Thank you so much for this useful new function! Indeed, the Record Wizard does not yet understand comments, categories nor templates on List pages, but this will be considered for future updates. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 18:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ajout d'une nouvelle langue ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour !<br />
<br />
Je souhaite ajouter la langue Q3196953 mais en suivant la [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Help:Add_a_new_language/fr procédure], je ne vois pas LinguaImporter. Quelqu'un peut-il me dire pourquoi?<br />
<br />
Cdt,<br />
BamLifa<br />
: {{ping|BamLifa}} c'est parce que tu n'es pas administrateur. Je viens d'importer le {{Q|646152}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, merci beaucoup pour cette précision. Si cette option n'est réservée qu'aux admins, pourquoi en parler dans la doc sans cette précision ? En plus, vue la multitude des langues que nous avons qui n'existent pas encore chez Lingua libre, ne pensez-vous pas que vous devriez simplifier cette tâche ? J'ai encore une autre langue à ajouter, le Bira (bila). [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 12:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|BamLifa}} c'est indiqué sur cette page (c'est même le titre de la section (Outil pour les administrateurs)). Je ne me rappelle pas pourquoi c'est réservé aux admins mais ça limite au moins les vandales qui voudraient importer des choses qui ne sont pas des langues. Bref, j'ai importé le {{Q|656403}} et le {{Q|656404}}. Si ce ne sont pas les bonnes langues, peux-tu me donner le code ISO 639-3 correspondant (ou au moins l'identifiant Wikidata) ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Merci beaucoup. [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 05:34, 22 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lists still don't work properly ==<br />
<br />
{{Ping|WikiLucas00}} {{Ping|Poslovitch}} It's better than [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Lists_stopped_working|before]], but still, sometimes the Record Wizard hangs when a list is chosen.<br />
Then I have to reload the page, and try again. Usually the second or the third time of trying the same list, it starts to work.<br />
Probably a race condition. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}}It also happens to me sometimes, but I think that it could be related to the button for removing words you already recorded. When you load a list of words you never recorded (typically Olafbot's lists), ticking the button seems to kill the loading. Best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 10:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you. Indeed, with this switch unchecked everything seems to work. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 16:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liste des mots à prononcer ==<br />
<br />
Salut ! Existe-t-il une page où des mots peuvent être ajoutés pour qu'un bon samaritain puisse parler ? [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 11:30, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|Vivaelcelta}}, les listes sont faites pour cela. Vous pouvez [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Create_your_own_lists|créer votre propre liste]] qui pourra ensuite être enregistrée par n'importe qui. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci {{u|Pamputt}}. — [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 22:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Projet Outils pour la patrouille ==<br />
:''See [[LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol assistance tool prototyping project]].''<br />
{{LangSwitch<br />
|fr=Salut,<br />
<br />
cette semaine commence un projet menés par des étudiants des formations IARF-RODECO de l’Université Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier concernant le prototypage d’outils de patrouille. Je suis, assisté par Adélaïde Calais, le superviseur de ce projet. Les étudiants sont en informatique avec une spécialisation en intelligence artificielle. L’idée est de leur faire prototyper (voire développer) des outils pour aider la patrouille de Lingua Libre en détectant automatiquement toutes sortes de problèmes. Nous avons déjà identifier quelques problèmes : clics, grésillements, bruits parasites et mauvaises prononciations (libellés et enregistrements pas raccord).<br />
<br />
Et nous avons besoin de la communauté sur deux points : <br />
# y a-t-il d’autres problèmes auxquels vous pensez ?<br />
# nous avons besoin, pour que les étudiants puissent travailler, d’enregistrements avec défauts. Si vous les avez réenregistrés, c’est pas grave, Commons a un historique. N’hésitez pas à nous communiquer les enregistrements qui ont ou avaient des défauts !<br />
<br />
Enfin, j’ai créé une page de projet accessible [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|ici]] (page traduite).<br />
<br />
(Si certain·es peuvent traduire ce message en anglais, c’est super cool.)<br />
<br />
À+,<br />
|en=Hi,<br />
<br />
This week, a project lead by student of University Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier is starting. It will be about the prototyping of patrolling tools. I supervise this project, assisted by Adélaïde Calais. The students study computer science with a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. The aim is to have them prototyping (or even developing) tools to help Lingua Libre's patrol, by automatically detecting any kind of mistake/error related to the files. We already identified a few types of mistakes: clicks, crackles, pops and labelling issues (wrong label/wrong language).<br />
<br />
We need the community on two points : <br />
# are there other problems you could think of? <br />
# we need some recordings having issues, in order for the students to be able to work. If you already recorded them again, it is not a big deal, Commons has a file history. Don't hesitate to provide us the files that have or had problems.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I created a project page, available [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|here]].<br />
<br />
See you,}}<br />
[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 09:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], Translated page —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 19:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], [[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde]], could you specify the dates for this project ? <br />
::Also, were your point 1 and two answered by the community somewhere ? (If not I could give it a try) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug}} Hi, I updated the project page with the dates. And I didn’t get any answers to my questions. [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 11:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rashidun Caliphate ==<br />
<br />
Hello {{ping|Zinou2go}},<br />
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q13955_(ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة_الراشدة.wav LL-Q13955 (ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة الراشدة.wav] is problematic (currently {{Q|Q204439}} on LiLi): it contains several cuts (clicks). I proposed the file for deletion in Commons. The recordings seem to be working better, could you record Rashidun Caliphate again? I didn't check the other records, but they are likely to have "clicks" as well. Also, can an admin delete this item on LiLi, please? Cordially. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Eihel}} Please do not nominate files for deletion before asking for the speaker to record it again and waiting a while for their answer. Also, these recordings will come useful for the team currently working on the audio issues of Lingua Libre, so we'd better not delete them (I thought you read my messages on Discord about this). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{Ping|WikiLucas00}}, J'ai enlevé la suppression sur Commons. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Code of Conduct ==<br />
Hi everyone, I just noticed again MediaWiki's [[:mw:Code of Conduct]] (2015) and Wikimedia Foundation's [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02). Back in 2015, 0x010C included the first one as a condition to contribute to [https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard RecordWizard's codebase]. As far as I know, Lili.org and its community, so far, [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Code+of+conduct has no Code of Conduct]. We may be ''implicitely'' binded by it or by some Wikimedia France's Code of Conduct, but it would be cleaner to ''explicitly'' adopt one and display it here, in written. We could therefor do the following :<br />
# Short round to confirm with have nothing in place so far.<br />
# Vote for 2 months to adopt the most recent [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02)<br />
# Copy the text into [[LinguaLibre:Universal Code of Conduct]].<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Pre-discussion ===<br />
Do we already have a Code of Conduct binding LinguaLibre ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Vote ===<br />
''Are you for or against adopting the [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021) as a code of conduct for LinguaLibre's community ?''<br><br />
''Possible votes : {{tl|support}} • {{tl|weak support}} • {{tl|weak oppose}} • {{tl|oppose}}''<br />
* {{Support}} (proposer) — better to be explicit, have a framework in place, just to be clear to all on where we stand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre website should be more appealing to Language Learners ==<br />
:''See also [https://forvo.com Forvo.com].''<br />
It would be useful if LinguaLibre follows the example of Forvo to increase the number of language learners interested in the Project.<br />
<br />
Forvo.com has a way of displaying the information that engage users and makes it very easy to find pronunciations. <br />
<br />
For example, if someone wants to learn how to pronounce "Honoré de Balzac" in French, it would be faster to find the audio on Forvo than on LinguaLibre. Also, Forvo displays the data in a way more appealing to language learners:<br />
* https://forvo.com/search/Honoré_de_Balzac/<br />
* https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Honoré+de+Balzac<br />
'''Would it be possible to improve the way that data is displayed on LinguaLibre to make it more appealing to Language Learners ?'''<br />
''In such way, the number of active users recording audios would increase significantly.'' -- [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]]<br />
:Some people previously reported such "issue". There is a [[phab:T252319|ticket]] on Phabricator to keep this in mind. However, the priority is currently given to develop patrol tools for Lingua Libre and we do not expect to see major improvements related to the audio brosing in the coming months (at least if we have no more external developers). I think it is like this because Lingua Libre has been though so that it helps for recording, not for listening; the second is let to the other Wikimedia projects, mainly Wiktionaries et Wikidata. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::YES ! There are oral discussions and proposals in this direction, but LinguaLibre being a volunteers-based team, we are moving slowly. Forvo is a for-profit entity, it locks the copyright and resale of recordings made on its platform to the speaker-creator and to themselves, to then sell those recordings with a profit. They therefor have money and swift decision-making to sustain their UI/UX efforts. We are shorter on those sides. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Sound Library's forking and hacking ===<br />
'''On the [[LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library|Sound Library]] side''', I was able to duplicate/fork it, which allows to start hack its CSS. Copy those codes into your own namespace :<br />
* [[User:Yug/common.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/common.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]] → [[Special:MyPage/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]]<br />
In those codes, you then have to replace all occurrences of "Yug" by your username, and it's should work. You can start hacking toward a more elegant interface. Note: the JS copy is in your *personal* JS and has a "stop" condition so the various JS instances won't fight. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allow recording only in the user's Native Language to avoid passing "mispronunciations" to Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
I started a discussion on the German Wiktionary because some words on LinguaLibre are not available on the DeWikt. The German Community told me that LinguaLibre adds words into Commons, but the Bot only accepts audios from “few” trusted users using a filter. <br />
<br />
The English and German Wiktionaries use a bot called "DerbethBot" to add audios from Commons. However, the English Wiktionary community asked to block Lingua Libre's recordings because there were non-native speakers recording audios and the Bot had no way to differentiate them from Native speakers. After the audios were introduced in the English Wiktionary they had to forbid adding audios from LinguaLibre:<br />
<br />
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2020/July#Labeling_non-native_audio<br />
<br />
I believe that it is necessary to avoid giving “mispronunciations” to Wictionaries. That is similar to vandalism on a Wiktionary if the reader doesn't know that it is hearing a bad pronunciation and believes that it is “native speaker”:<br />
<br />
''Some suggestions:''<br />
1) Would it be possible to name the audios files to specify if the speaker is a native or not? For example, if a French speaker records the word "maison" it could be named '''"maison-fr-native.ogg"''' . If a language learner records the same word : '''"maison-fr-learner.ogg"'''<br />
<br />
2) A radical way to address the issue would be to only allow to record in one's native language. Of course, users could change it, but strong warnings could be added and always remind people to record only their native language. Forvo seems to take this approach.<br />
<br />
It might be valuable for Linguists to have recordings of non-native speakers to study their accent features in an L-2 Language. However, in my humble opinion the pronunciations added to Wiktionary should be only native speakers and bots should have a way to differentiate them.<br />
<br />
Link to the German Wiktionary discussion about LinguaLibre: <br />
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Teestube#:~:text=von%20technischer%20seite%20gibt%20es%20keinem%20problem%2C%20zwei%20bots%20auf%20de.wiktionary%20arbeiten%20zu%20lassen.<br />
:Hi, this depends on the Wikitionary policy, and it could be different from a language to another one. Anyway, it is already possible to select only recordings done by native speaker. To do that, the speaker has to fill the {{P|16}} property ith the value {{Q|15}} (see for example {{Q|466}}). Other values for {{P|16}} are given [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q5|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sursilvan ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
[[Special:Contributions/Franz.Roos.1955|User:Franz.Roos.1955]] made 2 recordings in [[:en:wp:Sursilvan]] : rauna ([[Q689785]]), tschitta ([[Q689786]]). Sursilvan has no iso code. Do we have a procedure for such languages ? (I forgot if the case already shown up). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:There is not issue. It simply uses the Wikidata identifier when there is no ISO code. Se for example {{Q|1186}}. To record in such languages, we have to create an item for this language/dialect on Lingua Libre, and this is already done for {{Q|74905}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Thank Pamputt for the clarification. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[commons:commons:structured data]] ==<br />
<br />
I've been very pleased with LL's tooling, that does so much of the process of uploading to Commons, sensible naming, description-writing, and categorisation for me; however, I have an idea for an additional step LL could automate. This is in Commons' no-longer-so-new structured data section, which manifests (among other ways) as a tab on the file page.<br />
<br />
As an example of what could be automatically added to a file's datastore, there is a property called 'audio transcription' which serves a similar role to Commons' TimedText subtitle functionality (silly example: [[commons:TimedText:051226-kakapo-billbooming.ogg.en.srt]]) but for shorter clips -- in other words, seemingly designed with applications like LinguaLibre in mind.<br />
<br />
Since these are of the so-called 'monolingual text' datatype, the source language can be specified (or where not part of the main set of languages Wikimedia uses, the special code 'mis' is used and 'language of work or name' used as a qualifier) at the same time as the actual text that is being spoken, which LL has access to since the audio file started out as a text prompt!<br />
<br />
What think y'all? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 04:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Arlo Barnes}} there is [[phab:T239272|Phabricator ticket]] about this topic. Currently there are not yet all properties on Wikidata to fit all Lingua Libre properties. For example, I [[d:Wikidata:Property proposal/language level|proposed to create]] a property for the language level of a speaker but it did not get enough support. SO I guess, we should first list all properties we would like to add on SDC. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [Feature Request] Play next sound automatically while checking recordings ==<br />
<br />
After recording sounds it is important to check them to verify their quality. However, it is very tiring to record 380 words and afterwards have to click 380 times on the ''“Next button”'' while checking them.<br />
<br />
'''After recording, would it be possible to add a button to "Play next sound automatically" ?''' [https://i.imgur.com/XwC34pj.png Screenshot Here] [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, it is already [[phab:T218372|tracked on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "How to use Lingua Libre for your language learning" ==<br />
<br />
I recently found a "new" way to benefit from the sounds on Lingua Libre. I would suggest that it could be advertised on the Lingua Libre main website and on the Wikipedia in French/English:<br />
* [[:en:wp:GoldenDict|GoldenDict]] is a FOSS Dictionary application very valuable for language learners. <br />
<br />
A way to benefit from Lingua Libre recordings is to download the datasets, unzip them and "load" the sounds on GoldenDict (as Sound Directories. [https://i.imgur.com/9avJDgS.png Screenshot here]). In such a way, users have easily an offline "Pronunciation Dictionary". It is very easy to do. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/axRHruk.png screenshot] of how it looks to GoldenDict the French word "fuir". Another example [https://i.imgur.com/Rq0nQCt.png here].<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre sounds can be used with GoldenDict OFFLINE. That is a huge advantage in developing countries, where language learners often do not have reliable internet connection.<br />
<br />
''It would be valuable to create a description on the Lingua Libre website about'' '''"How to use Lingua Libre sounds for your language learning"''' .<br />
<br />
There it would be possible to describe how to use the audios offline with GoldenDict, etc. If more methods are developed (Anki add-on), better GUI, Android App, etc. they could be explained there.--[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:1) '''Reuse of datasets :''' Yes ! Dataset download and reuse must be showcasted and strengthened. I think a "Reuses gallery" page could be created, with screenshot and minimal how-to for GoldenDict, Anki and others.<br />
:2) '''Anki:''' You are the 4th or 5th contributor to rise the need for an Anki add-on. We need to do something on this side, yes. It's more than 1~2 days work and too big for a volunteer work, so we need to apply for a grant. I'am looking in and mapping our options at the moment ({{tl|Grants table}}). At one point we have to jump in and design a project, yes.<br />
:3) For '''e-learning app''', a 5k€ project was designed by myself a year ago. The funding by local regional government was declined, but it could easily be refreshed.<br />
:We have to redesign some projects and apply in early 2022. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::The core question is the Human Resources. <br />
::'''*Daily routines*''' keeps WikiLucas, Pamputt, Poslovitch and myself –aka the community-side contributors— busy maintaining the place, welcoming and guiding new users, cleaning pages, etc. We are now quite smooth, successful and stable on this side.<br />
::To '''*push forward*''' on developments, UI, tools, e-learning, communication, grants, we each have one or two side projects in mind, pushing those <u>''slowly''</u>. But as always in FOSS projects the task ahead is much larger and we could achieve much more with more human resources.<br />
::'''Overall''', it's possible we are at a new turning right now. As things are stable, with road maps available, '''we just need 1 to 3 new coordinators and communicants contributors to tip the dynamic into forward-offensive mode''', with communication therefor new arrivals, new speakers, new devs, new coordinators and really push forward with new events/workshop, funds and SMART features. <br />
::@[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]], I'am currently writing down structuring "community how to" to ease new contributor's jumping in (see [[LinguaLibre:Roles]], [[LinguaLibre:Workshops]], {{tl|Grants table}}). You are doing a nice push on communication (It's FOSS) and with your questions you are mapping out Lili's needs. Pamputt and WikiLucas are following our progresses. All this is pretty interesting. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would like to work on the "Public Relations" Department of LinguaLibre! - EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) : '''Any PR campaign would fail miserably if there is no search function.''' I explain the reasons at the end of this section: [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]]<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 23:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Sound good :) Your outreach to YouTubers and popular FOSS blogs is spot on.<br />
::I am back from a wikibreak, I am cleaning up some last pages, then since the maintenance side is stable I would like to focus my energy on projects design –recording rare languages, technology, PR campaign– and associated grant requests to secure funding and the actual realization of those visions. We can collaborate. You lead on the PR : design your campaign. I can review and help it to fit some Grants formats. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I created a new wiki page in the "events" section of a "PR Campaign for 2022". Please visit [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]] and participate in the discussion with new ideas. EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) I will NOT contribute anymore to a PR campaign. the reasons are explained as comment on the relevant section [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 21:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating a LL catgory for a dialect ==<br />
<br />
Would be grateful if someone could tell me if it's possible to create a LL category for a dialect?<br />
<br />
We're working in Konkani, which has its own (but small) Wikipedia at http://gom.wikipedia.org Under Konkani, there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. <br />
<br />
Would like to create a category for Saxtti (the Salcete dialect of Konkani). This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. Also, it would allow the recordings of many others which might have already been done in Konkani as a how.<br />
<br />
Question: How do we create space for the dialects of a language? <br />
<br />
Thanks very much, in advance! --[[User:Fredericknoronha|Fredericknoronha]] ([[User talk:Fredericknoronha|talk]]) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello {{ping|Fredericknoronha}} and welcome to Lingua Libre. I imported {{Q|700683}} (gom) as it was not on Lingua Libre yet. On Lingua Libre, dialects are treated the same way as languages. You can create an element for your dialect on Wikidata (example for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35359 auvergnat dialect]) and tell us once it is ready, so that we can import it on Lingua Libre with an admin tool. You can also directly create an element for your dialect on Lingua Libre, following the steps described at [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Add_a_new_language|Help:Add a new language]] and taking example of {{Q|1186}}. Don't hesitate to ping an admin if you have any questions.<br />
:All the best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::''« there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. […] This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. »''<br />
::If the writing are similar but only the pronunciation differs depending on where the speaker comes from, it looks like different accents.<br />
::Recordings are specific to a word, a language and a speaker. Which means me recording in French the word "bonjour" will be one audio file on Lili. WikiLucas can record in French the same word "bonjour", it will create an other audio file on Lili. My recording(s), since i come from the South West, will carry the southern accent. Recordings by WikiLucas, who lives 700km East of me, will cary the Lyon area accent. Lingualibre will store 2 recordings, one per user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Hello {{u|Fredericknoronha}}, I have imported {{Q|701734}} so that you can now record words in that dialect. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Feedback about Lingua Libre by Professor Carol Genetti, PhD ==<br />
<br />
'''Dear Members of Lingua Libre,<br />
'''<br />
I am pleased to share a message from Professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Genetti Carol Genetti], a linguist and leading expert in endangered languages. Professor Genetti is author of one of the best books in the field of Linguistics called "How Languages Work". Her vast knowledge and experience are extremely valuable and after reviewing Lingua Libre she said:<br />
<br />
''Thank you for contacting me and letting me know about this initiative. It is an interesting idea. I especially like the multilingual menus -- very helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Are you aware of [https://www.endangeredlanguages.com/ this website], hosted by the University of Hawaii (and, I believe, funded by Google). So one thing that occurs to me is the proliferation of such sites. How will people in an endangered-language community find out about their options, and then make an informed choice about which of these online resources will be best over time for their communities? Should such efforts cross-reference each other?''<br />
<br />
''My second thought has to do with longevity. It takes a significant commitment to support a site like this over time. The challenge is having someone who can keep such sites funded, working, organized, relevant, and engaging users over time. How will you make sure that the data will be available in 10, 50, 150 years? Maybe you get that automatically by being associated with Wikipedia. If so, state that. Also, there should be a clear statement of how such data might be used, and by whom, so speakers know that if they record a wordlist, someone might use if for some purpose without their permission (is that right?).<br />
''<br />
''I'm sorry to have to bring a down-to-earth message to the inspiration and passion for endangered languages that has clearly fueled this work, but having seen other initiatives stumble in this way, I wanted to be sure that you are thinking about this. Speakers will be entrusting you with such valuable pieces of their lives and their cultures. How will you safeguard this over time? Let people know.<br />
''<br />
''Those issues aside, here are a couple of other comments:''<br />
<br />
* There should be a statement targeted for speakers of endangered languages - why would they want to do this? What is the value for them and their communities? What will happen to the recordings? etc.''<br />
* Will you provide speakers with suggestions for what vocabulary to record, e.g. greetings, colors, verb forms?''<br />
* It would be helpful if it was clear from the large list of languages which ones have recordings. Maybe put those in a different color font?''<br />
* It would be helpful to include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language. Otherwise, someone's grandkids coming to this in 30 years will not know what the words mean.''<br />
* Do you want to move beyond single words to a piece of connected discourse, such as a short poem or story, a song, or the reading of some common text (such as a sentence from the UN Declaration for Linguistic Rights)?''<br />
* Should there be a means to flag inappropriate content?''<br />
<br />
''I hope that you find this helpful. And I'm so glad you liked my book! It is lovely to hear that people have found it helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Carol Genetti''<br />
''Vice Provost for Graduate and Postdoctoral Programs''<br />
''NYU Abu Dhabi''<br />
''(she/her/hers)''<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, this is some interesting feedback.<br />
:* "What will happen to the recordings?": Our homepage lacks such important information. We should plan a redesign for 2022 (inspired by the homepage of [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/ Common Voice]?) so that we finally have a homepage that properly explains what Lingua Libre is and can do.<br />
:* "Suggestions of things to record?": This already exists. They're called Lists. We have some pending improvements on that matter (easier to find and contribute to, etc.)<br />
:* "Show which languages have recordings": The datasets page could help, but I guess it would be interesting to put that on an easy-to-find page (again, like [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/languages Common Voice's languages page]?)<br />
:* "Include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language": we only support "transcription" for now.<br />
:** How could we even "link" the recordings to translations? (Lexemes? Plain text?)<br />
:** Who would have to do that? (the locutor? a dedicated team of contributors?)<br />
:** Where would it be done? (in the RecordWizard?)<br />
:** -> That's an interesting thing to think about, but might be slightly out of scope right now<br />
:* "Sentences, stories, songs...?": Yes, indeed. The Record Wizard is already able to do that (with some config tweaks that have to be done by the locutor), but it would be great to streamline this further. Dedicated UI, ability to record an audiobook (or Wikipedia, Wikisource, Wikinews article) as a mixture of sentences that can be stored locally before being all merged together into one audio file sent to Commons, ability for multiple contributors to work on the same book/article... That's something we should also discuss with the [https://librivox.org/ Librivox] folks: they use Audacity so far, but they might be interested in a tool that's better suited to their needs.<br />
:* "flag inappropriate content?": My insight is focused on technical stuff. This sounds more like some editorial guidelines that would have to be debated by the community.<br />
:* "'''longevity'''?": Should Lingua Libre vanish tomorrow, the audio recordings are not lost. They're all stored on Wikimedia Commons, and that makes them as "immortal" as files stored on hard disks, SSDs, CDs or magnetic bands and mirrored half a dozen times around the world can be. However, I can't say much about our Wikibase, which, at the current time, '''is the only place where all the recordings and locutor-related metadata is stored'''. That's a serious single point of failure. There are no dumps and therefore no mirrorring. We'll definitely have to discuss it with Wikimedia France and the Tech Team.<br />
:Hopefully my answers are clear and comprehensible. I'm pleased to have received feedback from Pr. Genetti. Now it's our turn to take matters in our hands! --[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to delete lists? ==<br />
:{{Done}} <br />
Hello, recently I completed some lists. Now everything is done and those lists are needless. Is there any possibility to delete lists? Greetings --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} hello, admins can delete those lists. The lists you created are [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?target=Onkel+Tomm&namespace=142&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions here]. Which ones should I delete ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Hello Yug, please delete all 8 lists, because they are all finally finished. Thanks. --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 13:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} We are clean ! thank for asking, it keeps the place clean :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Case study ==<br />
Hello all, I noticed a file upload which gather interesting use cases.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Item || Label || Speaker || Account || Filename || Category<br />
|-<br />
| [[Q709231]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q709231&oldid=689510 arch.]) || "Ingenieur" || [[Q674858]] 'fleur' || User:Beat_Ruest || [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] || [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest]]<br />
|-<br />
| — || Mispelling of "Ingénieur" || – || – || Carries the misspelling || Category page was not created, therefor virtually "lost" to Wikimedia Commons and [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
* Question 1: How do we handle mispelling ? I assume renaming ALL THREE of the [[Q709231]]'s label AND Property:P3 'recording' AND Wikimedia file [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] rename. Is that ok or will it break something ?<br />
* Question 2: Category should be automatically created. How do we go for this ? I assume a request on [[LinguaLibre:Bot]]<br />
* Question 3: What about the category by *speaker/voice* ([[Q709231]] 'fleur'), which curently doesn't exist, and which can have multiple speakers with the same name 'fleur' ?<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Question 1: it is a good start. I guess, we need to fix it both on Lingua Libre and on Wikimedia Commons<br />
: Question 2: you speak about categories on Wikimedia Commons? If so, I guess a bot can do it (Lingua Libre Bot or another one).<br />
: Question 3: actually the speaker is identified as "fleur (Beat Ruest)". Only one locutor of Beat Ruest can use the nickname "fleur".<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Q1, Q2 agree.<br />
::Q3 : {{ping|Pamputt}} check the categories on [[:commons:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} you mean the problem is [[:c:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] is categorized in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest" and not in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by fleur (Beat Ruest)" or similar name? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, we dont have categorization by '''speaker''' "Fleur (Beat Ruest)". Low importance, but could be a feature request. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gestion de doublons ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]'' (new, needs review!)<br />
<br />
Bonsoir !<br />
<br />
Il y a-t-il une gestion de doublons dans LL pour les mots d'une même langue ? [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 13:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]], si un même locuteur enregistre le même mot alors l'enregistrement précédent sera écrasé (un même locuteur ne peut enregistrer qu'une seule fois le même mot). En revanche, rien n'empêche l'enregistrement d'un même mot par plusieurs locuteurs et locutrices différentes, c'est même un des objectifs de Lingua Libre : mettre en lumière la diversité des prononciations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] : Comment sont alors gérés les homographes non homophones ? ^^ [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]] ([[User talk:Totodu74|talk]]) 00:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Bonjour [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], il est possible d'ajouter des indications entre parenthèses (cette information est stockée à l'aide de {{P|18}}). Voir par exemple {{Q|1685}} et {{Q|1686}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
:::@[[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], salut, la question des homographes est en partie résolue dans nos langues africaines qui sont essentiellement des langues à tons. --[[User:Rçag|Rçag]] ([[User talk:Rçag|talk]]) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Rçag, could you explain your solution a bit so we learn from it.<br />
:{{Ping|BamLifa|Rçag|Pamputt|Totodu74}} the page [[Help:Homographs]] is there to gather best practices. It's new, review and edits welcome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Comment changer de pseudonyme ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, sur les projets de Wikimedia, mon pseudonyme est Manjiro91 (et anciennement GamissimoYT), comment change-t-on de pseudonyme ?<br />
[[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|GamissimoYT}}. Lingua Libre utilise le même pseudo que celui qui est en utilisation sur Wikimedia Commons. Donc si vous voulez utiliser le pesudonyme Manjiro91, déconnectez-vous de Lingua Libre, puis de Wikimedia Commons. Ensuite, connectez vous à Commons avec le pseudo Manjiro91 et enfin reconnectez vous à Lingua Libre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
{{Notif|Pamputt}} Mon pseudonyme Wikimedia Commons est Manjiro91 (anciennement GamissimoYT mais le changement de pseudonyme ne s'effectue pas sur LiLi. [[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|GamissimoYT}}, tu as bien fait les connexions/déconnexions dans l'ordre que j'ai indiqué ? Si tu es sûr que tu es connecté avec Manjiro91 sur Wikimedia Commons, alors tu peux essayer de te déconnecter de Lingua Libre et te reconnecter dans la foulée. Essayer de vider le cache du navigateur peut peut-être aidé aussi. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging of items about languages ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL]] and [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]].''<br />
Hi y'all,<br />
<br />
For the record, I just merge a couple of items about the same language:<br />
* {{Q|52071}} in {{Q|73}}<br />
* {{Q|139228}} in {{Q|183}}<br />
* {{Q|170137}} in {{Q|359}}<br />
* {{Q|683869}} in {{Q|418}}<br />
* {{Q|646169}} in {{Q|6714}}<br />
* {{Q|570518}} in {{Q|52069}}<br />
* {{Q|538624}} in {{Q|84030}}<br />
* {{Q|646173}} in {{Q|390314}}<br />
* {{Q|646161}} in {{Q|502754}}<br />
* {{Q|570510}} in {{Q|489393}}<br />
<br />
I detected them with this SPARQL query: <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql"><br />
SELECT ?idWD (COUNT(?item) AS ?compte) (GROUP_CONCAT(?item) AS ?items) WHERE {<br />
?item prop:P2 entity:Q4 ; prop:P12 ?idWD .<br />
}<br />
GROUP BY ?idWD<br />
HAVING ( ?compte > 1 )<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
Ping {{ping|WikiLucas00}} it seems you are responsible for some of them...<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks VIGNERON for finding them and cleaning it. Now what to do with recording items that use the doublon language item (for example with [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q52071|Duala]]). I think we must modify {{P|4}} for all recording items so that languages are not counted twice and also to clean up the database (there are also transcription problems for items listed in the Duala example). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you {{ping|VIGNERON}} for pointing these out. As you can see, most of them were not created manually but using the tool (the pages wheighted circa 4kB, with labels in many languages). It seems that the Lingua Importer tool has (or had?) a problem, but I could not reproduce it (trying to import languages that are already in LL wikibase).<br/> During last summer's hackathon we talked a bit about languages in our wikibase, but I can't remember why we need to have language elements in our Wikibase, and not just use the existing base of WikiData 🤔 — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MediaWiki customizations of LinguaLibre ==<br />
<br />
Love the MediaWiki skin of LinguaLibre and I am curious of skin and customizations made. Who are the authors? (can not see credits) --[[User:Zblace|Zblace]] ([[User talk:Zblace|talk]]) 10:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The skin is known as BlueLL. The source code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL github]. It has been developed by Wikimedia France in 2020. That's said, it is true there is no licence and credits on Github. I will ask to {{u|Adélaïde Calais WMFr}} if she remember anything so that I can the missing informations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Zblace}}, this skin's author is [[User:0x010C]], and its opensource. Can be reused freely. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:45, 22 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New property: translation ==<br />
Hello, I've created {{P|38}} to be used in case there is no writing in the recording language but instead a translation in the vehicular language. See for example what I did [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q212431&type=revision&diff=743039&oldid=191330 here] and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q58994&type=revision&diff=743044&oldid=580313 there]. Do you agree with that? Any comment? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:It's a good idea! Many users tend to add a translation as they find it important for other people to have. It will also be handy for cases like your second example, where we only have the translation but not the transcription of the source language: we will be able to query the base to see all audios of a language that have a translation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::I am thinking about a way to populate automatically this property via the Record Wizard. Currently, it seems that the Record Wizard populates {{P|18}} when something is written between brackets (see {{Q|1685}} for example but I have not checked recently). So, if we modify the Record Wizard code, it is possible to recognize this is a translation in another language and so to populate {{P|38}}. But I would like to be sure to propose the best way to do it before asking for such development. The idea is to be managed automatically (or at least not completely manually). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 00:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone ! <br />
<br/>This week, Wikimedia France is preparing its budget for the fiscal year to come : July 2022 to June 2023. If there are things you would like to see done or to do with our help on Lingua Libre, please share it on this page : https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection <br />
<br/>Have a great week-end ! --[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 17:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
: {{u|marreromarco}} Thank you for your suggestions. However, I have some reservations about "Add function to "Request" a Pronunciation to Native Speakers" at this current stage for two reasons. First, this will require quite a bit of moderation to correct requests for grammar and spelling (e.g. HASBAND) as well as remove terrible requests. This will place a large burden on a few users and can easily lead to questionable decisions by moderators. Second, Forvo is flooded with requests that are either overly specific (e.g. "He came back from abyss and won the tie.") and, therefore, likely benefit only one user. IMHO, Rdrg109 proposal to focus on providing pronunciations for entries on the various wiktionaries is a better approach to building up the LL at this point. It will provide a solid foundation for users to find any word in LL. It might be a better time to open up LL to general requests once this project is completed and the community has grown. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 15:49, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to get the city country label in SPARQL ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL]].''<br />
I'm working on an Anki extension for LL, but I'm having a little trouble writing the sparql query. In short, I want to be able to get the city and country for a recording in LL. However, when I query P14, I get the link to the item instead of 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'} or 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'}. Instead I hope to get city:"" and country "France" for the first query city:"Paris" and country:"France" for the second one. Any ideas? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Languageseeker}} thanks for your work on a Anki extension. Could you post here the query you have now? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{u|Pamputt}} . The query that I'm using is a very lightly modified version of the bot query. <br />
<br />
:: <syntaxhighlight lang="sparql">ENDPOINT = "https://lingualibre.org/bigdata/namespace/wdq/sparql"<br />
API = "https://lingualibre.org/api.php"<br />
BASEQUERY = """<br />
SELECT DISTINCT<br />
?record ?file ?transcription ?recorded<br />
?languageIso ?languageQid ?languageWMCode<br />
?residence ?learningPlace ?languageLevel<br />
?speaker ?linkeduser<br />
WHERE {<br />
?record prop:P2 entity:Q2 .<br />
?record prop:P3 ?file .<br />
?record prop:P4 ?language .<br />
?record prop:P5 ?speaker .<br />
?record prop:P6 ?recorded .<br />
?record prop:P7 ?transcription .<br />
?language prop:P13 ?languageIso.<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel .<br />
?speaker prop:P11 ?linkeduser .<br />
?speaker prop:P14 ?residence .<br />
?speaker llp:P4 ?speakerLanguagesStatement .<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llv:P4 ?speakerLanguages .<br />
OPTIONAL { ?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel . }<br />
FILTER( ?speakerLanguages = ?language) .<br />
SERVICE wikibase:label {<br />
bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" .<br />
}<br />
#filters<br />
}"""</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
:: Currently, I'm running it with filters = "" because it seems that a query for a single term takes around 70s, while fetching a single transcription takes about 145 seconds. My plan is to group the results by transcription and then write that into a json file to avoid the costly query. Basically, I need the speaker name, the term, their country, their city, the ISO code of the language, date created, and the filename, languageLevel. <br />
<br />
:: For example, for the term un chien, the json would look like:<br />
:: { "term": {"un chien": {"speaker": "Julien Baley", "language": "fra", "city": "", "country": "France", "recorded": "2020-11-27", "filename": "LL-Q150_(fra)-Julien_Baley-un_chien.wav", "languageLevel": "Q15"}}} [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Download datasets]].''<br />
I wrote a [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader python program] that downloads all the files created by one user. For video files, it downloads the full webm. For audio files, the default is to download the wave file. However, for audio files, you can optionally choose either mp3 or ogg files. Currently, the configuration requires a minor modification of lluad.py. If there is strong demand, I will write a command line parser for it. Please report any bugs or errors on the github page. Feature requests are welcome. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Languageseeker}} please add your tool to [[Help:Download datasets]]. It lists several tools with different specifics, your tool is welcome and may help some Python users as well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:41, 22 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Garbage Values in prop:P14 ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]] and [[Help:SPARQL_for_maintenance#.E2.9C.85_Speakers_.E2.86.92_Undefined_place_of_residence]].''<br />
As part of my Anki project, I queried the entire LL database and I'm trying to parse the output of ?speaker prop:P14 ?residence. I've noticed that there are a number of garbage values in provided for P14, such as Q1, Q2, Q103962887, Q6099648, Strasbourg. There seem to be three cases. <br />
# Users wishing to enter an extremely vague place such as Earth or the Universe. These should be set to None.<br />
# Users accidentally linking to a disambiguation page. These require correction. <br />
# Users not even entering a Wikidata item which require manual correction.<br />
<br />
To solve the root of the problem, I propose that P14 should be restricted to only Wikidata items that exist and have P17. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 21:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Languageseeker}} it's a good find. If you still have that SPARQL query under hand please add it into [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]]. Yes, it's something we should clean up i think. There may be some few case where the speaker dont want to share its location but in 95% of cases i think we can go ahead, correct or ask them to correct it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:39, 26 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:I noticed that when creating a new speaker, place of learning is optional. Not cool. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:32, 27 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|YUG}} For the life of me, I can't get the federated query to work, but I have a separate query to get the location and country labels from wikidata. These are the problematic ones. Note, that Q20 is on the list because Q20 "Norway" is missing P17<br />
<br />
* ['MichaelSchoenitzer', None]<br />
* ['D.Muralidharan', None]<br />
* ['Kaderousse', None]<br />
* ['Krokus', None]<br />
* ['विदुला टोकेकर', 'Q103962887']<br />
* ['DoctorandusManhattan', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Justforoc', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Student16 de', None]<br />
* ['Didierwiki', 'Q6099648']<br />
* ['Sarah2149', None]<br />
* ['DomesticFrog', 'Q1']<br />
* ['Drkanchi', None]<br />
* ['Satdeep Gill', None]<br />
* ['Iwan.Aucamp', 'Q20']<br />
* ['Skimel', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Abeɣzan', None]<br />
* ['Gibraltar Rocks', None]<br />
* ['Bomdapatrick', None]<br />
* ['Ibtissam RAHMOUNI', None]<br />
* ['Trabelsiismail', None]<br />
* ['Ziko', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Youcefelallali', None]<br />
* ['Foxxipeter7', None]<br />
* ['Celevra089', None]<br />
* ['Bodhisattwa', None]<br />
* ['Atudu', None]<br />
* ['KageyamaxNishinoya', 'Q30915818']<br />
* ['Darkdadaah', None]<br />
* ['JayashreeVI', None]<br />
* ['रश्मीमहेश', 'Q103962887']<br />
* ['गीता गोविंद नेने', 'Q103893785']<br />
* ['Awangba Mangang', None]<br />
* ['Abigaljo', None]<br />
* ['FaelDaug', 'Q29423162']<br />
[[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:16, 30 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Anki Extension Release ==<br />
<br />
I just released [https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/124265771 Lingua Libre and Forvo Addon]. It has a number of advanced options to improve search results and can run either as a batch operation or on an individual note.<br />
<br />
By default, it first checks Lingua Libre and, if there are no results on Lingua Libre, it then checks Forvo. To run as a pure Lingua Libre extension, you will need to set "disable_Forvo" to <code>True</code> in your configuration section.<br />
<br />
Please reports bugs, issues, ideas on [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-and-Forvo-Audio-Downloader github]. I would love any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:23, 31 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Results of Coverage Test of French Lemma and Non-Lemma forms is English Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
While playing around with generating lists for pronunciation from Wiktionary, I decided to run a few tests on the current coverage of French lemma and non-lemma forms in English Wiktionary. I choose French because it is the largest datasets in LL.<br />
<br />
Current Coverage of French in Lingua Libre<br />
#Total French Entries in Lingua Libre by a native speaker: 233 982<br />
#Unique French Entries in Lingua Libre by a native speaker: 154 358<br />
#Percentage of overlap: 34%<br />
#Term with the greatest number of pronunciations: "blanc" with 40<br />
<br />
Current Coverage of [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:French_lemmas Category:French lemmas]<br />
#Total entries in Category:French lemmas: 84 482<br />
#Pronounced entries: 50 917<br />
#Entries with pronunciation: 33 565<br />
#Coverage Percentage: 60.27%<br />
<br />
Current Coverage of [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:French_non-lemma_forms Category:French non-lemma forms]<br />
#Total entries in Category:French non-lemma forms: 29 1225<br />
#Pronounced entries: 26 791<br />
#Entries with pronunciation: 264 434<br />
#Coverage Percentage: : 9.20%<br />
<br />
For me, there are several lessons to be drawn. First, there has been amazing growth on LL. Covering 60.27% percent is a real achievement. 2) The overlap percentage is quite small overall. 3) There needs to be a clearer sense of when LL should stop requesting pronunciations for a certain term because 40 pronunciations of "blanc" seems a bit excessive. 4) A need exists to continue pro-actively targeting entries in Wiktionary that are not in Lingua Libre. Currently, 297 999 French lemma and non-lemma forms require pronunciations. 5) Generating lists from Wiktionary and checking coverage is not as hard as I thought. 6) Lingua Libre has almost caught up with Forvo in the number of French pronunciations (233 982 vs 254, 703). Overall, Lingua Libre has shown amazing and healthy progress in a very short period of time. I'm excited about these results. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:07, 1 June 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=764714LinguaLibre:Chat room2022-05-31T04:43:11Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Anki Extension Release */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
{{Lang-CR}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
{{LL:Chat room/FAQ}}<br />
__TOC__<br />
<!-- **** DO NOT EDIT CONTENT ABOVE **** --><br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publish on Wikimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just tested, but my records are not published on Commons. My tests: on Firefox, then on Chrome, with 50, then with 1 expression (s), with license CC3.0-BY-SA and CC1.0. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 06:51, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[[File:LiLi April 2021 - Publish on Wikimedia Commons.png|thumb|Problème de publication sur Wikimedia Commons]]<br />
:[[phab:T281636]] —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 07:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Usually I have the same with the first two recordings in a session. Then I can upload them again at the end. Try again with more recordings, and using "retry filed upload" button. [[User:Poemat|Poemat]] ([[User talk:Poemat|talk]]) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: Yup, I had this bug many times. (I say "had" because I don't remember having encountered it after the fire incident.) Just don't give up and it should be published eventually. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::(As of 3 May 2021 and as I checked, I'm not aware of any code changes ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/commits/master history]) which may have of affected this. Seb35 made some other code change this same day.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
I add a user who has the same problem: {{u|Le Commissaire}}. —[[User:Eihel-LiLi|Eihel-LiLi]] ([[User talk:Eihel-LiLi|talk]]) 15:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Bonjour {{ping|Seb35}}, Faudrait voir avec {{u|Le Commissaire}} si le problème persiste aussi (avant de clore le ticket Phab. Sincères salutations. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 10:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::J’ai mis un message à Le Commissaire sur sa page de discussion.<br />
::::::Le problème que vous avez eu était spécifique à votre compte, c’est peut-être arrivé à d’autres personnes mais ça semble assez rare. Aussi, à partir du moment où un utilisateur a réussi à faire un envoi vers Commons, alors c’est un problème différent du vôtre ([[:phabricator:T275957|celui-ci, qui ressemble mais l’erreur est intermittente]]). Plus globalement, il faudrait que le message d’erreur soit explicite plutôt que d’aller à chercher dans la console du navigateur, je vais ouvrir un ticket Phabricator en ce sens. [[User:Seb35|Seb35]] ([[User talk:Seb35|talk]]) 10:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exclusion lists ==<br />
If anyone uses the regularly updated [[user:Olafbot|Olafbot's]] lists of wanted words ([[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]], etc.), and spotted an item that should be removed without recording, you can use the brand new exclusion lists to remove it. For example on the list [[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]] there was the word "abandonar", which apparently doesn't belong to the contemporary French corpus. Having added it on the exclusion list (here: [[user:Olafbot/exclusion list/Fra]]) the bot knows this item should never appear in French lists it maintains, and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries&diff=619214&oldid=606068 removes it] during the next update. <br />
<br />
Each "Lemmas without audio" list ({{Olafbot-wikt}}) has a corresponding exclusion list ({{Olafbot-exclusion}}). I hope it will help.<br />
<br />
Normally I would add a link to the exclusion list in a description of each lemmas list, but unfortunately, Lingua Libre engine doesn't allow adding any kind of comments or descriptions to lists, so this ad is the only way to spread a word about the new functionality. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}} Thank you so much for this useful new function! Indeed, the Record Wizard does not yet understand comments, categories nor templates on List pages, but this will be considered for future updates. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 18:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ajout d'une nouvelle langue ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour !<br />
<br />
Je souhaite ajouter la langue Q3196953 mais en suivant la [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Help:Add_a_new_language/fr procédure], je ne vois pas LinguaImporter. Quelqu'un peut-il me dire pourquoi?<br />
<br />
Cdt,<br />
BamLifa<br />
: {{ping|BamLifa}} c'est parce que tu n'es pas administrateur. Je viens d'importer le {{Q|646152}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, merci beaucoup pour cette précision. Si cette option n'est réservée qu'aux admins, pourquoi en parler dans la doc sans cette précision ? En plus, vue la multitude des langues que nous avons qui n'existent pas encore chez Lingua libre, ne pensez-vous pas que vous devriez simplifier cette tâche ? J'ai encore une autre langue à ajouter, le Bira (bila). [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 12:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|BamLifa}} c'est indiqué sur cette page (c'est même le titre de la section (Outil pour les administrateurs)). Je ne me rappelle pas pourquoi c'est réservé aux admins mais ça limite au moins les vandales qui voudraient importer des choses qui ne sont pas des langues. Bref, j'ai importé le {{Q|656403}} et le {{Q|656404}}. Si ce ne sont pas les bonnes langues, peux-tu me donner le code ISO 639-3 correspondant (ou au moins l'identifiant Wikidata) ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Merci beaucoup. [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 05:34, 22 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lists still don't work properly ==<br />
<br />
{{Ping|WikiLucas00}} {{Ping|Poslovitch}} It's better than [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Lists_stopped_working|before]], but still, sometimes the Record Wizard hangs when a list is chosen.<br />
Then I have to reload the page, and try again. Usually the second or the third time of trying the same list, it starts to work.<br />
Probably a race condition. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}}It also happens to me sometimes, but I think that it could be related to the button for removing words you already recorded. When you load a list of words you never recorded (typically Olafbot's lists), ticking the button seems to kill the loading. Best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 10:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you. Indeed, with this switch unchecked everything seems to work. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 16:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liste des mots à prononcer ==<br />
<br />
Salut ! Existe-t-il une page où des mots peuvent être ajoutés pour qu'un bon samaritain puisse parler ? [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 11:30, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|Vivaelcelta}}, les listes sont faites pour cela. Vous pouvez [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Create_your_own_lists|créer votre propre liste]] qui pourra ensuite être enregistrée par n'importe qui. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci {{u|Pamputt}}. — [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 22:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Projet Outils pour la patrouille ==<br />
:''See [[LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol assistance tool prototyping project]].''<br />
{{LangSwitch<br />
|fr=Salut,<br />
<br />
cette semaine commence un projet menés par des étudiants des formations IARF-RODECO de l’Université Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier concernant le prototypage d’outils de patrouille. Je suis, assisté par Adélaïde Calais, le superviseur de ce projet. Les étudiants sont en informatique avec une spécialisation en intelligence artificielle. L’idée est de leur faire prototyper (voire développer) des outils pour aider la patrouille de Lingua Libre en détectant automatiquement toutes sortes de problèmes. Nous avons déjà identifier quelques problèmes : clics, grésillements, bruits parasites et mauvaises prononciations (libellés et enregistrements pas raccord).<br />
<br />
Et nous avons besoin de la communauté sur deux points : <br />
# y a-t-il d’autres problèmes auxquels vous pensez ?<br />
# nous avons besoin, pour que les étudiants puissent travailler, d’enregistrements avec défauts. Si vous les avez réenregistrés, c’est pas grave, Commons a un historique. N’hésitez pas à nous communiquer les enregistrements qui ont ou avaient des défauts !<br />
<br />
Enfin, j’ai créé une page de projet accessible [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|ici]] (page traduite).<br />
<br />
(Si certain·es peuvent traduire ce message en anglais, c’est super cool.)<br />
<br />
À+,<br />
|en=Hi,<br />
<br />
This week, a project lead by student of University Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier is starting. It will be about the prototyping of patrolling tools. I supervise this project, assisted by Adélaïde Calais. The students study computer science with a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. The aim is to have them prototyping (or even developing) tools to help Lingua Libre's patrol, by automatically detecting any kind of mistake/error related to the files. We already identified a few types of mistakes: clicks, crackles, pops and labelling issues (wrong label/wrong language).<br />
<br />
We need the community on two points : <br />
# are there other problems you could think of? <br />
# we need some recordings having issues, in order for the students to be able to work. If you already recorded them again, it is not a big deal, Commons has a file history. Don't hesitate to provide us the files that have or had problems.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I created a project page, available [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|here]].<br />
<br />
See you,}}<br />
[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 09:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], Translated page —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 19:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], [[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde]], could you specify the dates for this project ? <br />
::Also, were your point 1 and two answered by the community somewhere ? (If not I could give it a try) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug}} Hi, I updated the project page with the dates. And I didn’t get any answers to my questions. [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 11:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rashidun Caliphate ==<br />
<br />
Hello {{ping|Zinou2go}},<br />
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q13955_(ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة_الراشدة.wav LL-Q13955 (ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة الراشدة.wav] is problematic (currently {{Q|Q204439}} on LiLi): it contains several cuts (clicks). I proposed the file for deletion in Commons. The recordings seem to be working better, could you record Rashidun Caliphate again? I didn't check the other records, but they are likely to have "clicks" as well. Also, can an admin delete this item on LiLi, please? Cordially. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Eihel}} Please do not nominate files for deletion before asking for the speaker to record it again and waiting a while for their answer. Also, these recordings will come useful for the team currently working on the audio issues of Lingua Libre, so we'd better not delete them (I thought you read my messages on Discord about this). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{Ping|WikiLucas00}}, J'ai enlevé la suppression sur Commons. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Code of Conduct ==<br />
Hi everyone, I just noticed again MediaWiki's [[:mw:Code of Conduct]] (2015) and Wikimedia Foundation's [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02). Back in 2015, 0x010C included the first one as a condition to contribute to [https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard RecordWizard's codebase]. As far as I know, Lili.org and its community, so far, [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Code+of+conduct has no Code of Conduct]. We may be ''implicitely'' binded by it or by some Wikimedia France's Code of Conduct, but it would be cleaner to ''explicitly'' adopt one and display it here, in written. We could therefor do the following :<br />
# Short round to confirm with have nothing in place so far.<br />
# Vote for 2 months to adopt the most recent [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02)<br />
# Copy the text into [[LinguaLibre:Universal Code of Conduct]].<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Pre-discussion ===<br />
Do we already have a Code of Conduct binding LinguaLibre ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Vote ===<br />
''Are you for or against adopting the [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021) as a code of conduct for LinguaLibre's community ?''<br><br />
''Possible votes : {{tl|support}} • {{tl|weak support}} • {{tl|weak oppose}} • {{tl|oppose}}''<br />
* {{Support}} (proposer) — better to be explicit, have a framework in place, just to be clear to all on where we stand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre website should be more appealing to Language Learners ==<br />
:''See also [https://forvo.com Forvo.com].''<br />
It would be useful if LinguaLibre follows the example of Forvo to increase the number of language learners interested in the Project.<br />
<br />
Forvo.com has a way of displaying the information that engage users and makes it very easy to find pronunciations. <br />
<br />
For example, if someone wants to learn how to pronounce "Honoré de Balzac" in French, it would be faster to find the audio on Forvo than on LinguaLibre. Also, Forvo displays the data in a way more appealing to language learners:<br />
* https://forvo.com/search/Honoré_de_Balzac/<br />
* https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Honoré+de+Balzac<br />
'''Would it be possible to improve the way that data is displayed on LinguaLibre to make it more appealing to Language Learners ?'''<br />
''In such way, the number of active users recording audios would increase significantly.'' -- [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]]<br />
:Some people previously reported such "issue". There is a [[phab:T252319|ticket]] on Phabricator to keep this in mind. However, the priority is currently given to develop patrol tools for Lingua Libre and we do not expect to see major improvements related to the audio brosing in the coming months (at least if we have no more external developers). I think it is like this because Lingua Libre has been though so that it helps for recording, not for listening; the second is let to the other Wikimedia projects, mainly Wiktionaries et Wikidata. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::YES ! There are oral discussions and proposals in this direction, but LinguaLibre being a volunteers-based team, we are moving slowly. Forvo is a for-profit entity, it locks the copyright and resale of recordings made on its platform to the speaker-creator and to themselves, to then sell those recordings with a profit. They therefor have money and swift decision-making to sustain their UI/UX efforts. We are shorter on those sides. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Sound Library's forking and hacking ===<br />
'''On the [[LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library|Sound Library]] side''', I was able to duplicate/fork it, which allows to start hack its CSS. Copy those codes into your own namespace :<br />
* [[User:Yug/common.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/common.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]] → [[Special:MyPage/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]]<br />
In those codes, you then have to replace all occurrences of "Yug" by your username, and it's should work. You can start hacking toward a more elegant interface. Note: the JS copy is in your *personal* JS and has a "stop" condition so the various JS instances won't fight. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allow recording only in the user's Native Language to avoid passing "mispronunciations" to Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
I started a discussion on the German Wiktionary because some words on LinguaLibre are not available on the DeWikt. The German Community told me that LinguaLibre adds words into Commons, but the Bot only accepts audios from “few” trusted users using a filter. <br />
<br />
The English and German Wiktionaries use a bot called "DerbethBot" to add audios from Commons. However, the English Wiktionary community asked to block Lingua Libre's recordings because there were non-native speakers recording audios and the Bot had no way to differentiate them from Native speakers. After the audios were introduced in the English Wiktionary they had to forbid adding audios from LinguaLibre:<br />
<br />
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2020/July#Labeling_non-native_audio<br />
<br />
I believe that it is necessary to avoid giving “mispronunciations” to Wictionaries. That is similar to vandalism on a Wiktionary if the reader doesn't know that it is hearing a bad pronunciation and believes that it is “native speaker”:<br />
<br />
''Some suggestions:''<br />
1) Would it be possible to name the audios files to specify if the speaker is a native or not? For example, if a French speaker records the word "maison" it could be named '''"maison-fr-native.ogg"''' . If a language learner records the same word : '''"maison-fr-learner.ogg"'''<br />
<br />
2) A radical way to address the issue would be to only allow to record in one's native language. Of course, users could change it, but strong warnings could be added and always remind people to record only their native language. Forvo seems to take this approach.<br />
<br />
It might be valuable for Linguists to have recordings of non-native speakers to study their accent features in an L-2 Language. However, in my humble opinion the pronunciations added to Wiktionary should be only native speakers and bots should have a way to differentiate them.<br />
<br />
Link to the German Wiktionary discussion about LinguaLibre: <br />
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Teestube#:~:text=von%20technischer%20seite%20gibt%20es%20keinem%20problem%2C%20zwei%20bots%20auf%20de.wiktionary%20arbeiten%20zu%20lassen.<br />
:Hi, this depends on the Wikitionary policy, and it could be different from a language to another one. Anyway, it is already possible to select only recordings done by native speaker. To do that, the speaker has to fill the {{P|16}} property ith the value {{Q|15}} (see for example {{Q|466}}). Other values for {{P|16}} are given [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q5|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sursilvan ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
[[Special:Contributions/Franz.Roos.1955|User:Franz.Roos.1955]] made 2 recordings in [[:en:wp:Sursilvan]] : rauna ([[Q689785]]), tschitta ([[Q689786]]). Sursilvan has no iso code. Do we have a procedure for such languages ? (I forgot if the case already shown up). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:There is not issue. It simply uses the Wikidata identifier when there is no ISO code. Se for example {{Q|1186}}. To record in such languages, we have to create an item for this language/dialect on Lingua Libre, and this is already done for {{Q|74905}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Thank Pamputt for the clarification. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[commons:commons:structured data]] ==<br />
<br />
I've been very pleased with LL's tooling, that does so much of the process of uploading to Commons, sensible naming, description-writing, and categorisation for me; however, I have an idea for an additional step LL could automate. This is in Commons' no-longer-so-new structured data section, which manifests (among other ways) as a tab on the file page.<br />
<br />
As an example of what could be automatically added to a file's datastore, there is a property called 'audio transcription' which serves a similar role to Commons' TimedText subtitle functionality (silly example: [[commons:TimedText:051226-kakapo-billbooming.ogg.en.srt]]) but for shorter clips -- in other words, seemingly designed with applications like LinguaLibre in mind.<br />
<br />
Since these are of the so-called 'monolingual text' datatype, the source language can be specified (or where not part of the main set of languages Wikimedia uses, the special code 'mis' is used and 'language of work or name' used as a qualifier) at the same time as the actual text that is being spoken, which LL has access to since the audio file started out as a text prompt!<br />
<br />
What think y'all? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 04:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Arlo Barnes}} there is [[phab:T239272|Phabricator ticket]] about this topic. Currently there are not yet all properties on Wikidata to fit all Lingua Libre properties. For example, I [[d:Wikidata:Property proposal/language level|proposed to create]] a property for the language level of a speaker but it did not get enough support. SO I guess, we should first list all properties we would like to add on SDC. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [Feature Request] Play next sound automatically while checking recordings ==<br />
<br />
After recording sounds it is important to check them to verify their quality. However, it is very tiring to record 380 words and afterwards have to click 380 times on the ''“Next button”'' while checking them.<br />
<br />
'''After recording, would it be possible to add a button to "Play next sound automatically" ?''' [https://i.imgur.com/XwC34pj.png Screenshot Here] [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, it is already [[phab:T218372|tracked on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "How to use Lingua Libre for your language learning" ==<br />
<br />
I recently found a "new" way to benefit from the sounds on Lingua Libre. I would suggest that it could be advertised on the Lingua Libre main website and on the Wikipedia in French/English:<br />
* [[:en:wp:GoldenDict|GoldenDict]] is a FOSS Dictionary application very valuable for language learners. <br />
<br />
A way to benefit from Lingua Libre recordings is to download the datasets, unzip them and "load" the sounds on GoldenDict (as Sound Directories. [https://i.imgur.com/9avJDgS.png Screenshot here]). In such a way, users have easily an offline "Pronunciation Dictionary". It is very easy to do. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/axRHruk.png screenshot] of how it looks to GoldenDict the French word "fuir". Another example [https://i.imgur.com/Rq0nQCt.png here].<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre sounds can be used with GoldenDict OFFLINE. That is a huge advantage in developing countries, where language learners often do not have reliable internet connection.<br />
<br />
''It would be valuable to create a description on the Lingua Libre website about'' '''"How to use Lingua Libre sounds for your language learning"''' .<br />
<br />
There it would be possible to describe how to use the audios offline with GoldenDict, etc. If more methods are developed (Anki add-on), better GUI, Android App, etc. they could be explained there.--[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:1) '''Reuse of datasets :''' Yes ! Dataset download and reuse must be showcasted and strengthened. I think a "Reuses gallery" page could be created, with screenshot and minimal how-to for GoldenDict, Anki and others.<br />
:2) '''Anki:''' You are the 4th or 5th contributor to rise the need for an Anki add-on. We need to do something on this side, yes. It's more than 1~2 days work and too big for a volunteer work, so we need to apply for a grant. I'am looking in and mapping our options at the moment ({{tl|Grants table}}). At one point we have to jump in and design a project, yes.<br />
:3) For '''e-learning app''', a 5k€ project was designed by myself a year ago. The funding by local regional government was declined, but it could easily be refreshed.<br />
:We have to redesign some projects and apply in early 2022. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::The core question is the Human Resources. <br />
::'''*Daily routines*''' keeps WikiLucas, Pamputt, Poslovitch and myself –aka the community-side contributors— busy maintaining the place, welcoming and guiding new users, cleaning pages, etc. We are now quite smooth, successful and stable on this side.<br />
::To '''*push forward*''' on developments, UI, tools, e-learning, communication, grants, we each have one or two side projects in mind, pushing those <u>''slowly''</u>. But as always in FOSS projects the task ahead is much larger and we could achieve much more with more human resources.<br />
::'''Overall''', it's possible we are at a new turning right now. As things are stable, with road maps available, '''we just need 1 to 3 new coordinators and communicants contributors to tip the dynamic into forward-offensive mode''', with communication therefor new arrivals, new speakers, new devs, new coordinators and really push forward with new events/workshop, funds and SMART features. <br />
::@[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]], I'am currently writing down structuring "community how to" to ease new contributor's jumping in (see [[LinguaLibre:Roles]], [[LinguaLibre:Workshops]], {{tl|Grants table}}). You are doing a nice push on communication (It's FOSS) and with your questions you are mapping out Lili's needs. Pamputt and WikiLucas are following our progresses. All this is pretty interesting. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would like to work on the "Public Relations" Department of LinguaLibre! - EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) : '''Any PR campaign would fail miserably if there is no search function.''' I explain the reasons at the end of this section: [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]]<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 23:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Sound good :) Your outreach to YouTubers and popular FOSS blogs is spot on.<br />
::I am back from a wikibreak, I am cleaning up some last pages, then since the maintenance side is stable I would like to focus my energy on projects design –recording rare languages, technology, PR campaign– and associated grant requests to secure funding and the actual realization of those visions. We can collaborate. You lead on the PR : design your campaign. I can review and help it to fit some Grants formats. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I created a new wiki page in the "events" section of a "PR Campaign for 2022". Please visit [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]] and participate in the discussion with new ideas. EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) I will NOT contribute anymore to a PR campaign. the reasons are explained as comment on the relevant section [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 21:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating a LL catgory for a dialect ==<br />
<br />
Would be grateful if someone could tell me if it's possible to create a LL category for a dialect?<br />
<br />
We're working in Konkani, which has its own (but small) Wikipedia at http://gom.wikipedia.org Under Konkani, there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. <br />
<br />
Would like to create a category for Saxtti (the Salcete dialect of Konkani). This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. Also, it would allow the recordings of many others which might have already been done in Konkani as a how.<br />
<br />
Question: How do we create space for the dialects of a language? <br />
<br />
Thanks very much, in advance! --[[User:Fredericknoronha|Fredericknoronha]] ([[User talk:Fredericknoronha|talk]]) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello {{ping|Fredericknoronha}} and welcome to Lingua Libre. I imported {{Q|700683}} (gom) as it was not on Lingua Libre yet. On Lingua Libre, dialects are treated the same way as languages. You can create an element for your dialect on Wikidata (example for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35359 auvergnat dialect]) and tell us once it is ready, so that we can import it on Lingua Libre with an admin tool. You can also directly create an element for your dialect on Lingua Libre, following the steps described at [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Add_a_new_language|Help:Add a new language]] and taking example of {{Q|1186}}. Don't hesitate to ping an admin if you have any questions.<br />
:All the best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::''« there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. […] This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. »''<br />
::If the writing are similar but only the pronunciation differs depending on where the speaker comes from, it looks like different accents.<br />
::Recordings are specific to a word, a language and a speaker. Which means me recording in French the word "bonjour" will be one audio file on Lili. WikiLucas can record in French the same word "bonjour", it will create an other audio file on Lili. My recording(s), since i come from the South West, will carry the southern accent. Recordings by WikiLucas, who lives 700km East of me, will cary the Lyon area accent. Lingualibre will store 2 recordings, one per user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Hello {{u|Fredericknoronha}}, I have imported {{Q|701734}} so that you can now record words in that dialect. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Feedback about Lingua Libre by Professor Carol Genetti, PhD ==<br />
<br />
'''Dear Members of Lingua Libre,<br />
'''<br />
I am pleased to share a message from Professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Genetti Carol Genetti], a linguist and leading expert in endangered languages. Professor Genetti is author of one of the best books in the field of Linguistics called "How Languages Work". Her vast knowledge and experience are extremely valuable and after reviewing Lingua Libre she said:<br />
<br />
''Thank you for contacting me and letting me know about this initiative. It is an interesting idea. I especially like the multilingual menus -- very helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Are you aware of [https://www.endangeredlanguages.com/ this website], hosted by the University of Hawaii (and, I believe, funded by Google). So one thing that occurs to me is the proliferation of such sites. How will people in an endangered-language community find out about their options, and then make an informed choice about which of these online resources will be best over time for their communities? Should such efforts cross-reference each other?''<br />
<br />
''My second thought has to do with longevity. It takes a significant commitment to support a site like this over time. The challenge is having someone who can keep such sites funded, working, organized, relevant, and engaging users over time. How will you make sure that the data will be available in 10, 50, 150 years? Maybe you get that automatically by being associated with Wikipedia. If so, state that. Also, there should be a clear statement of how such data might be used, and by whom, so speakers know that if they record a wordlist, someone might use if for some purpose without their permission (is that right?).<br />
''<br />
''I'm sorry to have to bring a down-to-earth message to the inspiration and passion for endangered languages that has clearly fueled this work, but having seen other initiatives stumble in this way, I wanted to be sure that you are thinking about this. Speakers will be entrusting you with such valuable pieces of their lives and their cultures. How will you safeguard this over time? Let people know.<br />
''<br />
''Those issues aside, here are a couple of other comments:''<br />
<br />
* There should be a statement targeted for speakers of endangered languages - why would they want to do this? What is the value for them and their communities? What will happen to the recordings? etc.''<br />
* Will you provide speakers with suggestions for what vocabulary to record, e.g. greetings, colors, verb forms?''<br />
* It would be helpful if it was clear from the large list of languages which ones have recordings. Maybe put those in a different color font?''<br />
* It would be helpful to include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language. Otherwise, someone's grandkids coming to this in 30 years will not know what the words mean.''<br />
* Do you want to move beyond single words to a piece of connected discourse, such as a short poem or story, a song, or the reading of some common text (such as a sentence from the UN Declaration for Linguistic Rights)?''<br />
* Should there be a means to flag inappropriate content?''<br />
<br />
''I hope that you find this helpful. And I'm so glad you liked my book! It is lovely to hear that people have found it helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Carol Genetti''<br />
''Vice Provost for Graduate and Postdoctoral Programs''<br />
''NYU Abu Dhabi''<br />
''(she/her/hers)''<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, this is some interesting feedback.<br />
:* "What will happen to the recordings?": Our homepage lacks such important information. We should plan a redesign for 2022 (inspired by the homepage of [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/ Common Voice]?) so that we finally have a homepage that properly explains what Lingua Libre is and can do.<br />
:* "Suggestions of things to record?": This already exists. They're called Lists. We have some pending improvements on that matter (easier to find and contribute to, etc.)<br />
:* "Show which languages have recordings": The datasets page could help, but I guess it would be interesting to put that on an easy-to-find page (again, like [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/languages Common Voice's languages page]?)<br />
:* "Include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language": we only support "transcription" for now.<br />
:** How could we even "link" the recordings to translations? (Lexemes? Plain text?)<br />
:** Who would have to do that? (the locutor? a dedicated team of contributors?)<br />
:** Where would it be done? (in the RecordWizard?)<br />
:** -> That's an interesting thing to think about, but might be slightly out of scope right now<br />
:* "Sentences, stories, songs...?": Yes, indeed. The Record Wizard is already able to do that (with some config tweaks that have to be done by the locutor), but it would be great to streamline this further. Dedicated UI, ability to record an audiobook (or Wikipedia, Wikisource, Wikinews article) as a mixture of sentences that can be stored locally before being all merged together into one audio file sent to Commons, ability for multiple contributors to work on the same book/article... That's something we should also discuss with the [https://librivox.org/ Librivox] folks: they use Audacity so far, but they might be interested in a tool that's better suited to their needs.<br />
:* "flag inappropriate content?": My insight is focused on technical stuff. This sounds more like some editorial guidelines that would have to be debated by the community.<br />
:* "'''longevity'''?": Should Lingua Libre vanish tomorrow, the audio recordings are not lost. They're all stored on Wikimedia Commons, and that makes them as "immortal" as files stored on hard disks, SSDs, CDs or magnetic bands and mirrored half a dozen times around the world can be. However, I can't say much about our Wikibase, which, at the current time, '''is the only place where all the recordings and locutor-related metadata is stored'''. That's a serious single point of failure. There are no dumps and therefore no mirrorring. We'll definitely have to discuss it with Wikimedia France and the Tech Team.<br />
:Hopefully my answers are clear and comprehensible. I'm pleased to have received feedback from Pr. Genetti. Now it's our turn to take matters in our hands! --[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to delete lists? ==<br />
:{{Done}} <br />
Hello, recently I completed some lists. Now everything is done and those lists are needless. Is there any possibility to delete lists? Greetings --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} hello, admins can delete those lists. The lists you created are [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?target=Onkel+Tomm&namespace=142&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions here]. Which ones should I delete ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Hello Yug, please delete all 8 lists, because they are all finally finished. Thanks. --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 13:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} We are clean ! thank for asking, it keeps the place clean :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Case study ==<br />
Hello all, I noticed a file upload which gather interesting use cases.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Item || Label || Speaker || Account || Filename || Category<br />
|-<br />
| [[Q709231]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q709231&oldid=689510 arch.]) || "Ingenieur" || [[Q674858]] 'fleur' || User:Beat_Ruest || [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] || [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest]]<br />
|-<br />
| — || Mispelling of "Ingénieur" || – || – || Carries the misspelling || Category page was not created, therefor virtually "lost" to Wikimedia Commons and [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
* Question 1: How do we handle mispelling ? I assume renaming ALL THREE of the [[Q709231]]'s label AND Property:P3 'recording' AND Wikimedia file [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] rename. Is that ok or will it break something ?<br />
* Question 2: Category should be automatically created. How do we go for this ? I assume a request on [[LinguaLibre:Bot]]<br />
* Question 3: What about the category by *speaker/voice* ([[Q709231]] 'fleur'), which curently doesn't exist, and which can have multiple speakers with the same name 'fleur' ?<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Question 1: it is a good start. I guess, we need to fix it both on Lingua Libre and on Wikimedia Commons<br />
: Question 2: you speak about categories on Wikimedia Commons? If so, I guess a bot can do it (Lingua Libre Bot or another one).<br />
: Question 3: actually the speaker is identified as "fleur (Beat Ruest)". Only one locutor of Beat Ruest can use the nickname "fleur".<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Q1, Q2 agree.<br />
::Q3 : {{ping|Pamputt}} check the categories on [[:commons:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} you mean the problem is [[:c:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] is categorized in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest" and not in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by fleur (Beat Ruest)" or similar name? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, we dont have categorization by '''speaker''' "Fleur (Beat Ruest)". Low importance, but could be a feature request. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gestion de doublons ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]'' (new, needs review!)<br />
<br />
Bonsoir !<br />
<br />
Il y a-t-il une gestion de doublons dans LL pour les mots d'une même langue ? [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 13:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]], si un même locuteur enregistre le même mot alors l'enregistrement précédent sera écrasé (un même locuteur ne peut enregistrer qu'une seule fois le même mot). En revanche, rien n'empêche l'enregistrement d'un même mot par plusieurs locuteurs et locutrices différentes, c'est même un des objectifs de Lingua Libre : mettre en lumière la diversité des prononciations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] : Comment sont alors gérés les homographes non homophones ? ^^ [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]] ([[User talk:Totodu74|talk]]) 00:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Bonjour [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], il est possible d'ajouter des indications entre parenthèses (cette information est stockée à l'aide de {{P|18}}). Voir par exemple {{Q|1685}} et {{Q|1686}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
:::@[[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], salut, la question des homographes est en partie résolue dans nos langues africaines qui sont essentiellement des langues à tons. --[[User:Rçag|Rçag]] ([[User talk:Rçag|talk]]) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Rçag, could you explain your solution a bit so we learn from it.<br />
:{{Ping|BamLifa|Rçag|Pamputt|Totodu74}} the page [[Help:Homographs]] is there to gather best practices. It's new, review and edits welcome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Comment changer de pseudonyme ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, sur les projets de Wikimedia, mon pseudonyme est Manjiro91 (et anciennement GamissimoYT), comment change-t-on de pseudonyme ?<br />
[[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|GamissimoYT}}. Lingua Libre utilise le même pseudo que celui qui est en utilisation sur Wikimedia Commons. Donc si vous voulez utiliser le pesudonyme Manjiro91, déconnectez-vous de Lingua Libre, puis de Wikimedia Commons. Ensuite, connectez vous à Commons avec le pseudo Manjiro91 et enfin reconnectez vous à Lingua Libre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
{{Notif|Pamputt}} Mon pseudonyme Wikimedia Commons est Manjiro91 (anciennement GamissimoYT mais le changement de pseudonyme ne s'effectue pas sur LiLi. [[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|GamissimoYT}}, tu as bien fait les connexions/déconnexions dans l'ordre que j'ai indiqué ? Si tu es sûr que tu es connecté avec Manjiro91 sur Wikimedia Commons, alors tu peux essayer de te déconnecter de Lingua Libre et te reconnecter dans la foulée. Essayer de vider le cache du navigateur peut peut-être aidé aussi. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging of items about languages ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL]] and [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]].''<br />
Hi y'all,<br />
<br />
For the record, I just merge a couple of items about the same language:<br />
* {{Q|52071}} in {{Q|73}}<br />
* {{Q|139228}} in {{Q|183}}<br />
* {{Q|170137}} in {{Q|359}}<br />
* {{Q|683869}} in {{Q|418}}<br />
* {{Q|646169}} in {{Q|6714}}<br />
* {{Q|570518}} in {{Q|52069}}<br />
* {{Q|538624}} in {{Q|84030}}<br />
* {{Q|646173}} in {{Q|390314}}<br />
* {{Q|646161}} in {{Q|502754}}<br />
* {{Q|570510}} in {{Q|489393}}<br />
<br />
I detected them with this SPARQL query: <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql"><br />
SELECT ?idWD (COUNT(?item) AS ?compte) (GROUP_CONCAT(?item) AS ?items) WHERE {<br />
?item prop:P2 entity:Q4 ; prop:P12 ?idWD .<br />
}<br />
GROUP BY ?idWD<br />
HAVING ( ?compte > 1 )<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
Ping {{ping|WikiLucas00}} it seems you are responsible for some of them...<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks VIGNERON for finding them and cleaning it. Now what to do with recording items that use the doublon language item (for example with [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q52071|Duala]]). I think we must modify {{P|4}} for all recording items so that languages are not counted twice and also to clean up the database (there are also transcription problems for items listed in the Duala example). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you {{ping|VIGNERON}} for pointing these out. As you can see, most of them were not created manually but using the tool (the pages wheighted circa 4kB, with labels in many languages). It seems that the Lingua Importer tool has (or had?) a problem, but I could not reproduce it (trying to import languages that are already in LL wikibase).<br/> During last summer's hackathon we talked a bit about languages in our wikibase, but I can't remember why we need to have language elements in our Wikibase, and not just use the existing base of WikiData 🤔 — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MediaWiki customizations of LinguaLibre ==<br />
<br />
Love the MediaWiki skin of LinguaLibre and I am curious of skin and customizations made. Who are the authors? (can not see credits) --[[User:Zblace|Zblace]] ([[User talk:Zblace|talk]]) 10:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The skin is known as BlueLL. The source code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL github]. It has been developed by Wikimedia France in 2020. That's said, it is true there is no licence and credits on Github. I will ask to {{u|Adélaïde Calais WMFr}} if she remember anything so that I can the missing informations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Zblace}}, this skin's author is [[User:0x010C]], and its opensource. Can be reused freely. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:45, 22 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New property: translation ==<br />
Hello, I've created {{P|38}} to be used in case there is no writing in the recording language but instead a translation in the vehicular language. See for example what I did [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q212431&type=revision&diff=743039&oldid=191330 here] and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q58994&type=revision&diff=743044&oldid=580313 there]. Do you agree with that? Any comment? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:It's a good idea! Many users tend to add a translation as they find it important for other people to have. It will also be handy for cases like your second example, where we only have the translation but not the transcription of the source language: we will be able to query the base to see all audios of a language that have a translation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::I am thinking about a way to populate automatically this property via the Record Wizard. Currently, it seems that the Record Wizard populates {{P|18}} when something is written between brackets (see {{Q|1685}} for example but I have not checked recently). So, if we modify the Record Wizard code, it is possible to recognize this is a translation in another language and so to populate {{P|38}}. But I would like to be sure to propose the best way to do it before asking for such development. The idea is to be managed automatically (or at least not completely manually). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 00:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone ! <br />
<br/>This week, Wikimedia France is preparing its budget for the fiscal year to come : July 2022 to June 2023. If there are things you would like to see done or to do with our help on Lingua Libre, please share it on this page : https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection <br />
<br/>Have a great week-end ! --[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 17:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
: {{u|marreromarco}} Thank you for your suggestions. However, I have some reservations about "Add function to "Request" a Pronunciation to Native Speakers" at this current stage for two reasons. First, this will require quite a bit of moderation to correct requests for grammar and spelling (e.g. HASBAND) as well as remove terrible requests. This will place a large burden on a few users and can easily lead to questionable decisions by moderators. Second, Forvo is flooded with requests that are either overly specific (e.g. "He came back from abyss and won the tie.") and, therefore, likely benefit only one user. IMHO, Rdrg109 proposal to focus on providing pronunciations for entries on the various wiktionaries is a better approach to building up the LL at this point. It will provide a solid foundation for users to find any word in LL. It might be a better time to open up LL to general requests once this project is completed and the community has grown. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 15:49, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to get the city country label in SPARQL ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL]].''<br />
I'm working on an Anki extension for LL, but I'm having a little trouble writing the sparql query. In short, I want to be able to get the city and country for a recording in LL. However, when I query P14, I get the link to the item instead of 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'} or 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'}. Instead I hope to get city:"" and country "France" for the first query city:"Paris" and country:"France" for the second one. Any ideas? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Languageseeker}} thanks for your work on a Anki extension. Could you post here the query you have now? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{u|Pamputt}} . The query that I'm using is a very lightly modified version of the bot query. <br />
<br />
:: <syntaxhighlight lang="sparql">ENDPOINT = "https://lingualibre.org/bigdata/namespace/wdq/sparql"<br />
API = "https://lingualibre.org/api.php"<br />
BASEQUERY = """<br />
SELECT DISTINCT<br />
?record ?file ?transcription ?recorded<br />
?languageIso ?languageQid ?languageWMCode<br />
?residence ?learningPlace ?languageLevel<br />
?speaker ?linkeduser<br />
WHERE {<br />
?record prop:P2 entity:Q2 .<br />
?record prop:P3 ?file .<br />
?record prop:P4 ?language .<br />
?record prop:P5 ?speaker .<br />
?record prop:P6 ?recorded .<br />
?record prop:P7 ?transcription .<br />
?language prop:P13 ?languageIso.<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel .<br />
?speaker prop:P11 ?linkeduser .<br />
?speaker prop:P14 ?residence .<br />
?speaker llp:P4 ?speakerLanguagesStatement .<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llv:P4 ?speakerLanguages .<br />
OPTIONAL { ?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel . }<br />
FILTER( ?speakerLanguages = ?language) .<br />
SERVICE wikibase:label {<br />
bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" .<br />
}<br />
#filters<br />
}"""</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
:: Currently, I'm running it with filters = "" because it seems that a query for a single term takes around 70s, while fetching a single transcription takes about 145 seconds. My plan is to group the results by transcription and then write that into a json file to avoid the costly query. Basically, I need the speaker name, the term, their country, their city, the ISO code of the language, date created, and the filename, languageLevel. <br />
<br />
:: For example, for the term un chien, the json would look like:<br />
:: { "term": {"un chien": {"speaker": "Julien Baley", "language": "fra", "city": "", "country": "France", "recorded": "2020-11-27", "filename": "LL-Q150_(fra)-Julien_Baley-un_chien.wav", "languageLevel": "Q15"}}} [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Download datasets]].''<br />
I wrote a [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader python program] that downloads all the files created by one user. For video files, it downloads the full webm. For audio files, the default is to download the wave file. However, for audio files, you can optionally choose either mp3 or ogg files. Currently, the configuration requires a minor modification of lluad.py. If there is strong demand, I will write a command line parser for it. Please report any bugs or errors on the github page. Feature requests are welcome. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Languageseeker}} please add your tool to [[Help:Download datasets]]. It lists several tools with different specifics, your tool is welcome and may help some Python users as well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:41, 22 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Garbage Values in prop:P14 ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]] and [[Help:SPARQL_for_maintenance#.E2.9C.85_Speakers_.E2.86.92_Undefined_place_of_residence]].''<br />
As part of my Anki project, I queried the entire LL database and I'm trying to parse the output of ?speaker prop:P14 ?residence. I've noticed that there are a number of garbage values in provided for P14, such as Q1, Q2, Q103962887, Q6099648, Strasbourg. There seem to be three cases. <br />
# Users wishing to enter an extremely vague place such as Earth or the Universe. These should be set to None.<br />
# Users accidentally linking to a disambiguation page. These require correction. <br />
# Users not even entering a Wikidata item which require manual correction.<br />
<br />
To solve the root of the problem, I propose that P14 should be restricted to only Wikidata items that exist and have P17. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 21:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Languageseeker}} it's a good find. If you still have that SPARQL query under hand please add it into [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]]. Yes, it's something we should clean up i think. There may be some few case where the speaker dont want to share its location but in 95% of cases i think we can go ahead, correct or ask them to correct it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:39, 26 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:I noticed that when creating a new speaker, place of learning is optional. Not cool. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:32, 27 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|YUG}} For the life of me, I can't get the federated query to work, but I have a separate query to get the location and country labels from wikidata. These are the problematic ones. Note, that Q20 is on the list because Q20 "Norway" is missing P17<br />
<br />
* ['MichaelSchoenitzer', None]<br />
* ['D.Muralidharan', None]<br />
* ['Kaderousse', None]<br />
* ['Krokus', None]<br />
* ['विदुला टोकेकर', 'Q103962887']<br />
* ['DoctorandusManhattan', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Justforoc', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Student16 de', None]<br />
* ['Didierwiki', 'Q6099648']<br />
* ['Sarah2149', None]<br />
* ['DomesticFrog', 'Q1']<br />
* ['Drkanchi', None]<br />
* ['Satdeep Gill', None]<br />
* ['Iwan.Aucamp', 'Q20']<br />
* ['Skimel', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Abeɣzan', None]<br />
* ['Gibraltar Rocks', None]<br />
* ['Bomdapatrick', None]<br />
* ['Ibtissam RAHMOUNI', None]<br />
* ['Trabelsiismail', None]<br />
* ['Ziko', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Youcefelallali', None]<br />
* ['Foxxipeter7', None]<br />
* ['Celevra089', None]<br />
* ['Bodhisattwa', None]<br />
* ['Atudu', None]<br />
* ['KageyamaxNishinoya', 'Q30915818']<br />
* ['Darkdadaah', None]<br />
* ['JayashreeVI', None]<br />
* ['रश्मीमहेश', 'Q103962887']<br />
* ['गीता गोविंद नेने', 'Q103893785']<br />
* ['Awangba Mangang', None]<br />
* ['Abigaljo', None]<br />
* ['FaelDaug', 'Q29423162']<br />
[[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:16, 30 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Anki Extension Release ==<br />
<br />
I just released [https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/124265771 Lingua Libre and Forvo Addon]. It has a number of advanced options to improve search results and can run either as a batch operation or on an individual note.<br />
<br />
By default, it first checks Lingua Libre and, if there are no results on Lingua Libre, it then checks Forvo. To run as a pure Lingua Libre extension, you will need to set "disable_Forvo" to <code>True</code> in your configuration section.<br />
<br />
Please reports bugs, issues, ideas on [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-and-Forvo-Audio-Downloader github]. I would love any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:23, 31 May 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=764713LinguaLibre:Chat room2022-05-31T02:23:22Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Anki Extension Release */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
{{Lang-CR}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
{{LL:Chat room/FAQ}}<br />
__TOC__<br />
<!-- **** DO NOT EDIT CONTENT ABOVE **** --><br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publish on Wikimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just tested, but my records are not published on Commons. My tests: on Firefox, then on Chrome, with 50, then with 1 expression (s), with license CC3.0-BY-SA and CC1.0. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 06:51, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[[File:LiLi April 2021 - Publish on Wikimedia Commons.png|thumb|Problème de publication sur Wikimedia Commons]]<br />
:[[phab:T281636]] —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 07:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Usually I have the same with the first two recordings in a session. Then I can upload them again at the end. Try again with more recordings, and using "retry filed upload" button. [[User:Poemat|Poemat]] ([[User talk:Poemat|talk]]) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: Yup, I had this bug many times. (I say "had" because I don't remember having encountered it after the fire incident.) Just don't give up and it should be published eventually. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::(As of 3 May 2021 and as I checked, I'm not aware of any code changes ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/commits/master history]) which may have of affected this. Seb35 made some other code change this same day.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
I add a user who has the same problem: {{u|Le Commissaire}}. —[[User:Eihel-LiLi|Eihel-LiLi]] ([[User talk:Eihel-LiLi|talk]]) 15:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Bonjour {{ping|Seb35}}, Faudrait voir avec {{u|Le Commissaire}} si le problème persiste aussi (avant de clore le ticket Phab. Sincères salutations. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 10:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::J’ai mis un message à Le Commissaire sur sa page de discussion.<br />
::::::Le problème que vous avez eu était spécifique à votre compte, c’est peut-être arrivé à d’autres personnes mais ça semble assez rare. Aussi, à partir du moment où un utilisateur a réussi à faire un envoi vers Commons, alors c’est un problème différent du vôtre ([[:phabricator:T275957|celui-ci, qui ressemble mais l’erreur est intermittente]]). Plus globalement, il faudrait que le message d’erreur soit explicite plutôt que d’aller à chercher dans la console du navigateur, je vais ouvrir un ticket Phabricator en ce sens. [[User:Seb35|Seb35]] ([[User talk:Seb35|talk]]) 10:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exclusion lists ==<br />
If anyone uses the regularly updated [[user:Olafbot|Olafbot's]] lists of wanted words ([[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]], etc.), and spotted an item that should be removed without recording, you can use the brand new exclusion lists to remove it. For example on the list [[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]] there was the word "abandonar", which apparently doesn't belong to the contemporary French corpus. Having added it on the exclusion list (here: [[user:Olafbot/exclusion list/Fra]]) the bot knows this item should never appear in French lists it maintains, and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries&diff=619214&oldid=606068 removes it] during the next update. <br />
<br />
Each "Lemmas without audio" list ({{Olafbot-wikt}}) has a corresponding exclusion list ({{Olafbot-exclusion}}). I hope it will help.<br />
<br />
Normally I would add a link to the exclusion list in a description of each lemmas list, but unfortunately, Lingua Libre engine doesn't allow adding any kind of comments or descriptions to lists, so this ad is the only way to spread a word about the new functionality. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}} Thank you so much for this useful new function! Indeed, the Record Wizard does not yet understand comments, categories nor templates on List pages, but this will be considered for future updates. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 18:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ajout d'une nouvelle langue ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour !<br />
<br />
Je souhaite ajouter la langue Q3196953 mais en suivant la [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Help:Add_a_new_language/fr procédure], je ne vois pas LinguaImporter. Quelqu'un peut-il me dire pourquoi?<br />
<br />
Cdt,<br />
BamLifa<br />
: {{ping|BamLifa}} c'est parce que tu n'es pas administrateur. Je viens d'importer le {{Q|646152}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, merci beaucoup pour cette précision. Si cette option n'est réservée qu'aux admins, pourquoi en parler dans la doc sans cette précision ? En plus, vue la multitude des langues que nous avons qui n'existent pas encore chez Lingua libre, ne pensez-vous pas que vous devriez simplifier cette tâche ? J'ai encore une autre langue à ajouter, le Bira (bila). [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 12:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|BamLifa}} c'est indiqué sur cette page (c'est même le titre de la section (Outil pour les administrateurs)). Je ne me rappelle pas pourquoi c'est réservé aux admins mais ça limite au moins les vandales qui voudraient importer des choses qui ne sont pas des langues. Bref, j'ai importé le {{Q|656403}} et le {{Q|656404}}. Si ce ne sont pas les bonnes langues, peux-tu me donner le code ISO 639-3 correspondant (ou au moins l'identifiant Wikidata) ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Merci beaucoup. [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 05:34, 22 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lists still don't work properly ==<br />
<br />
{{Ping|WikiLucas00}} {{Ping|Poslovitch}} It's better than [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Lists_stopped_working|before]], but still, sometimes the Record Wizard hangs when a list is chosen.<br />
Then I have to reload the page, and try again. Usually the second or the third time of trying the same list, it starts to work.<br />
Probably a race condition. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}}It also happens to me sometimes, but I think that it could be related to the button for removing words you already recorded. When you load a list of words you never recorded (typically Olafbot's lists), ticking the button seems to kill the loading. Best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 10:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you. Indeed, with this switch unchecked everything seems to work. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 16:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liste des mots à prononcer ==<br />
<br />
Salut ! Existe-t-il une page où des mots peuvent être ajoutés pour qu'un bon samaritain puisse parler ? [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 11:30, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|Vivaelcelta}}, les listes sont faites pour cela. Vous pouvez [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Create_your_own_lists|créer votre propre liste]] qui pourra ensuite être enregistrée par n'importe qui. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci {{u|Pamputt}}. — [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 22:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Projet Outils pour la patrouille ==<br />
:''See [[LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol assistance tool prototyping project]].''<br />
{{LangSwitch<br />
|fr=Salut,<br />
<br />
cette semaine commence un projet menés par des étudiants des formations IARF-RODECO de l’Université Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier concernant le prototypage d’outils de patrouille. Je suis, assisté par Adélaïde Calais, le superviseur de ce projet. Les étudiants sont en informatique avec une spécialisation en intelligence artificielle. L’idée est de leur faire prototyper (voire développer) des outils pour aider la patrouille de Lingua Libre en détectant automatiquement toutes sortes de problèmes. Nous avons déjà identifier quelques problèmes : clics, grésillements, bruits parasites et mauvaises prononciations (libellés et enregistrements pas raccord).<br />
<br />
Et nous avons besoin de la communauté sur deux points : <br />
# y a-t-il d’autres problèmes auxquels vous pensez ?<br />
# nous avons besoin, pour que les étudiants puissent travailler, d’enregistrements avec défauts. Si vous les avez réenregistrés, c’est pas grave, Commons a un historique. N’hésitez pas à nous communiquer les enregistrements qui ont ou avaient des défauts !<br />
<br />
Enfin, j’ai créé une page de projet accessible [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|ici]] (page traduite).<br />
<br />
(Si certain·es peuvent traduire ce message en anglais, c’est super cool.)<br />
<br />
À+,<br />
|en=Hi,<br />
<br />
This week, a project lead by student of University Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier is starting. It will be about the prototyping of patrolling tools. I supervise this project, assisted by Adélaïde Calais. The students study computer science with a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. The aim is to have them prototyping (or even developing) tools to help Lingua Libre's patrol, by automatically detecting any kind of mistake/error related to the files. We already identified a few types of mistakes: clicks, crackles, pops and labelling issues (wrong label/wrong language).<br />
<br />
We need the community on two points : <br />
# are there other problems you could think of? <br />
# we need some recordings having issues, in order for the students to be able to work. If you already recorded them again, it is not a big deal, Commons has a file history. Don't hesitate to provide us the files that have or had problems.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I created a project page, available [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|here]].<br />
<br />
See you,}}<br />
[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 09:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], Translated page —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 19:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], [[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde]], could you specify the dates for this project ? <br />
::Also, were your point 1 and two answered by the community somewhere ? (If not I could give it a try) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug}} Hi, I updated the project page with the dates. And I didn’t get any answers to my questions. [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 11:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rashidun Caliphate ==<br />
<br />
Hello {{ping|Zinou2go}},<br />
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q13955_(ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة_الراشدة.wav LL-Q13955 (ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة الراشدة.wav] is problematic (currently {{Q|Q204439}} on LiLi): it contains several cuts (clicks). I proposed the file for deletion in Commons. The recordings seem to be working better, could you record Rashidun Caliphate again? I didn't check the other records, but they are likely to have "clicks" as well. Also, can an admin delete this item on LiLi, please? Cordially. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Eihel}} Please do not nominate files for deletion before asking for the speaker to record it again and waiting a while for their answer. Also, these recordings will come useful for the team currently working on the audio issues of Lingua Libre, so we'd better not delete them (I thought you read my messages on Discord about this). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{Ping|WikiLucas00}}, J'ai enlevé la suppression sur Commons. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Code of Conduct ==<br />
Hi everyone, I just noticed again MediaWiki's [[:mw:Code of Conduct]] (2015) and Wikimedia Foundation's [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02). Back in 2015, 0x010C included the first one as a condition to contribute to [https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard RecordWizard's codebase]. As far as I know, Lili.org and its community, so far, [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Code+of+conduct has no Code of Conduct]. We may be ''implicitely'' binded by it or by some Wikimedia France's Code of Conduct, but it would be cleaner to ''explicitly'' adopt one and display it here, in written. We could therefor do the following :<br />
# Short round to confirm with have nothing in place so far.<br />
# Vote for 2 months to adopt the most recent [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02)<br />
# Copy the text into [[LinguaLibre:Universal Code of Conduct]].<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Pre-discussion ===<br />
Do we already have a Code of Conduct binding LinguaLibre ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Vote ===<br />
''Are you for or against adopting the [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021) as a code of conduct for LinguaLibre's community ?''<br><br />
''Possible votes : {{tl|support}} • {{tl|weak support}} • {{tl|weak oppose}} • {{tl|oppose}}''<br />
* {{Support}} (proposer) — better to be explicit, have a framework in place, just to be clear to all on where we stand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre website should be more appealing to Language Learners ==<br />
:''See also [https://forvo.com Forvo.com].''<br />
It would be useful if LinguaLibre follows the example of Forvo to increase the number of language learners interested in the Project.<br />
<br />
Forvo.com has a way of displaying the information that engage users and makes it very easy to find pronunciations. <br />
<br />
For example, if someone wants to learn how to pronounce "Honoré de Balzac" in French, it would be faster to find the audio on Forvo than on LinguaLibre. Also, Forvo displays the data in a way more appealing to language learners:<br />
* https://forvo.com/search/Honoré_de_Balzac/<br />
* https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Honoré+de+Balzac<br />
'''Would it be possible to improve the way that data is displayed on LinguaLibre to make it more appealing to Language Learners ?'''<br />
''In such way, the number of active users recording audios would increase significantly.'' -- [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]]<br />
:Some people previously reported such "issue". There is a [[phab:T252319|ticket]] on Phabricator to keep this in mind. However, the priority is currently given to develop patrol tools for Lingua Libre and we do not expect to see major improvements related to the audio brosing in the coming months (at least if we have no more external developers). I think it is like this because Lingua Libre has been though so that it helps for recording, not for listening; the second is let to the other Wikimedia projects, mainly Wiktionaries et Wikidata. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::YES ! There are oral discussions and proposals in this direction, but LinguaLibre being a volunteers-based team, we are moving slowly. Forvo is a for-profit entity, it locks the copyright and resale of recordings made on its platform to the speaker-creator and to themselves, to then sell those recordings with a profit. They therefor have money and swift decision-making to sustain their UI/UX efforts. We are shorter on those sides. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Sound Library's forking and hacking ===<br />
'''On the [[LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library|Sound Library]] side''', I was able to duplicate/fork it, which allows to start hack its CSS. Copy those codes into your own namespace :<br />
* [[User:Yug/common.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/common.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]] → [[Special:MyPage/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]]<br />
In those codes, you then have to replace all occurrences of "Yug" by your username, and it's should work. You can start hacking toward a more elegant interface. Note: the JS copy is in your *personal* JS and has a "stop" condition so the various JS instances won't fight. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allow recording only in the user's Native Language to avoid passing "mispronunciations" to Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
I started a discussion on the German Wiktionary because some words on LinguaLibre are not available on the DeWikt. The German Community told me that LinguaLibre adds words into Commons, but the Bot only accepts audios from “few” trusted users using a filter. <br />
<br />
The English and German Wiktionaries use a bot called "DerbethBot" to add audios from Commons. However, the English Wiktionary community asked to block Lingua Libre's recordings because there were non-native speakers recording audios and the Bot had no way to differentiate them from Native speakers. After the audios were introduced in the English Wiktionary they had to forbid adding audios from LinguaLibre:<br />
<br />
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2020/July#Labeling_non-native_audio<br />
<br />
I believe that it is necessary to avoid giving “mispronunciations” to Wictionaries. That is similar to vandalism on a Wiktionary if the reader doesn't know that it is hearing a bad pronunciation and believes that it is “native speaker”:<br />
<br />
''Some suggestions:''<br />
1) Would it be possible to name the audios files to specify if the speaker is a native or not? For example, if a French speaker records the word "maison" it could be named '''"maison-fr-native.ogg"''' . If a language learner records the same word : '''"maison-fr-learner.ogg"'''<br />
<br />
2) A radical way to address the issue would be to only allow to record in one's native language. Of course, users could change it, but strong warnings could be added and always remind people to record only their native language. Forvo seems to take this approach.<br />
<br />
It might be valuable for Linguists to have recordings of non-native speakers to study their accent features in an L-2 Language. However, in my humble opinion the pronunciations added to Wiktionary should be only native speakers and bots should have a way to differentiate them.<br />
<br />
Link to the German Wiktionary discussion about LinguaLibre: <br />
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Teestube#:~:text=von%20technischer%20seite%20gibt%20es%20keinem%20problem%2C%20zwei%20bots%20auf%20de.wiktionary%20arbeiten%20zu%20lassen.<br />
:Hi, this depends on the Wikitionary policy, and it could be different from a language to another one. Anyway, it is already possible to select only recordings done by native speaker. To do that, the speaker has to fill the {{P|16}} property ith the value {{Q|15}} (see for example {{Q|466}}). Other values for {{P|16}} are given [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q5|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sursilvan ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
[[Special:Contributions/Franz.Roos.1955|User:Franz.Roos.1955]] made 2 recordings in [[:en:wp:Sursilvan]] : rauna ([[Q689785]]), tschitta ([[Q689786]]). Sursilvan has no iso code. Do we have a procedure for such languages ? (I forgot if the case already shown up). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:There is not issue. It simply uses the Wikidata identifier when there is no ISO code. Se for example {{Q|1186}}. To record in such languages, we have to create an item for this language/dialect on Lingua Libre, and this is already done for {{Q|74905}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Thank Pamputt for the clarification. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[commons:commons:structured data]] ==<br />
<br />
I've been very pleased with LL's tooling, that does so much of the process of uploading to Commons, sensible naming, description-writing, and categorisation for me; however, I have an idea for an additional step LL could automate. This is in Commons' no-longer-so-new structured data section, which manifests (among other ways) as a tab on the file page.<br />
<br />
As an example of what could be automatically added to a file's datastore, there is a property called 'audio transcription' which serves a similar role to Commons' TimedText subtitle functionality (silly example: [[commons:TimedText:051226-kakapo-billbooming.ogg.en.srt]]) but for shorter clips -- in other words, seemingly designed with applications like LinguaLibre in mind.<br />
<br />
Since these are of the so-called 'monolingual text' datatype, the source language can be specified (or where not part of the main set of languages Wikimedia uses, the special code 'mis' is used and 'language of work or name' used as a qualifier) at the same time as the actual text that is being spoken, which LL has access to since the audio file started out as a text prompt!<br />
<br />
What think y'all? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 04:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Arlo Barnes}} there is [[phab:T239272|Phabricator ticket]] about this topic. Currently there are not yet all properties on Wikidata to fit all Lingua Libre properties. For example, I [[d:Wikidata:Property proposal/language level|proposed to create]] a property for the language level of a speaker but it did not get enough support. SO I guess, we should first list all properties we would like to add on SDC. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [Feature Request] Play next sound automatically while checking recordings ==<br />
<br />
After recording sounds it is important to check them to verify their quality. However, it is very tiring to record 380 words and afterwards have to click 380 times on the ''“Next button”'' while checking them.<br />
<br />
'''After recording, would it be possible to add a button to "Play next sound automatically" ?''' [https://i.imgur.com/XwC34pj.png Screenshot Here] [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, it is already [[phab:T218372|tracked on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "How to use Lingua Libre for your language learning" ==<br />
<br />
I recently found a "new" way to benefit from the sounds on Lingua Libre. I would suggest that it could be advertised on the Lingua Libre main website and on the Wikipedia in French/English:<br />
* [[:en:wp:GoldenDict|GoldenDict]] is a FOSS Dictionary application very valuable for language learners. <br />
<br />
A way to benefit from Lingua Libre recordings is to download the datasets, unzip them and "load" the sounds on GoldenDict (as Sound Directories. [https://i.imgur.com/9avJDgS.png Screenshot here]). In such a way, users have easily an offline "Pronunciation Dictionary". It is very easy to do. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/axRHruk.png screenshot] of how it looks to GoldenDict the French word "fuir". Another example [https://i.imgur.com/Rq0nQCt.png here].<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre sounds can be used with GoldenDict OFFLINE. That is a huge advantage in developing countries, where language learners often do not have reliable internet connection.<br />
<br />
''It would be valuable to create a description on the Lingua Libre website about'' '''"How to use Lingua Libre sounds for your language learning"''' .<br />
<br />
There it would be possible to describe how to use the audios offline with GoldenDict, etc. If more methods are developed (Anki add-on), better GUI, Android App, etc. they could be explained there.--[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:1) '''Reuse of datasets :''' Yes ! Dataset download and reuse must be showcasted and strengthened. I think a "Reuses gallery" page could be created, with screenshot and minimal how-to for GoldenDict, Anki and others.<br />
:2) '''Anki:''' You are the 4th or 5th contributor to rise the need for an Anki add-on. We need to do something on this side, yes. It's more than 1~2 days work and too big for a volunteer work, so we need to apply for a grant. I'am looking in and mapping our options at the moment ({{tl|Grants table}}). At one point we have to jump in and design a project, yes.<br />
:3) For '''e-learning app''', a 5k€ project was designed by myself a year ago. The funding by local regional government was declined, but it could easily be refreshed.<br />
:We have to redesign some projects and apply in early 2022. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::The core question is the Human Resources. <br />
::'''*Daily routines*''' keeps WikiLucas, Pamputt, Poslovitch and myself –aka the community-side contributors— busy maintaining the place, welcoming and guiding new users, cleaning pages, etc. We are now quite smooth, successful and stable on this side.<br />
::To '''*push forward*''' on developments, UI, tools, e-learning, communication, grants, we each have one or two side projects in mind, pushing those <u>''slowly''</u>. But as always in FOSS projects the task ahead is much larger and we could achieve much more with more human resources.<br />
::'''Overall''', it's possible we are at a new turning right now. As things are stable, with road maps available, '''we just need 1 to 3 new coordinators and communicants contributors to tip the dynamic into forward-offensive mode''', with communication therefor new arrivals, new speakers, new devs, new coordinators and really push forward with new events/workshop, funds and SMART features. <br />
::@[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]], I'am currently writing down structuring "community how to" to ease new contributor's jumping in (see [[LinguaLibre:Roles]], [[LinguaLibre:Workshops]], {{tl|Grants table}}). You are doing a nice push on communication (It's FOSS) and with your questions you are mapping out Lili's needs. Pamputt and WikiLucas are following our progresses. All this is pretty interesting. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would like to work on the "Public Relations" Department of LinguaLibre! - EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) : '''Any PR campaign would fail miserably if there is no search function.''' I explain the reasons at the end of this section: [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]]<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 23:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Sound good :) Your outreach to YouTubers and popular FOSS blogs is spot on.<br />
::I am back from a wikibreak, I am cleaning up some last pages, then since the maintenance side is stable I would like to focus my energy on projects design –recording rare languages, technology, PR campaign– and associated grant requests to secure funding and the actual realization of those visions. We can collaborate. You lead on the PR : design your campaign. I can review and help it to fit some Grants formats. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I created a new wiki page in the "events" section of a "PR Campaign for 2022". Please visit [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]] and participate in the discussion with new ideas. EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) I will NOT contribute anymore to a PR campaign. the reasons are explained as comment on the relevant section [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 21:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating a LL catgory for a dialect ==<br />
<br />
Would be grateful if someone could tell me if it's possible to create a LL category for a dialect?<br />
<br />
We're working in Konkani, which has its own (but small) Wikipedia at http://gom.wikipedia.org Under Konkani, there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. <br />
<br />
Would like to create a category for Saxtti (the Salcete dialect of Konkani). This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. Also, it would allow the recordings of many others which might have already been done in Konkani as a how.<br />
<br />
Question: How do we create space for the dialects of a language? <br />
<br />
Thanks very much, in advance! --[[User:Fredericknoronha|Fredericknoronha]] ([[User talk:Fredericknoronha|talk]]) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello {{ping|Fredericknoronha}} and welcome to Lingua Libre. I imported {{Q|700683}} (gom) as it was not on Lingua Libre yet. On Lingua Libre, dialects are treated the same way as languages. You can create an element for your dialect on Wikidata (example for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35359 auvergnat dialect]) and tell us once it is ready, so that we can import it on Lingua Libre with an admin tool. You can also directly create an element for your dialect on Lingua Libre, following the steps described at [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Add_a_new_language|Help:Add a new language]] and taking example of {{Q|1186}}. Don't hesitate to ping an admin if you have any questions.<br />
:All the best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::''« there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. […] This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. »''<br />
::If the writing are similar but only the pronunciation differs depending on where the speaker comes from, it looks like different accents.<br />
::Recordings are specific to a word, a language and a speaker. Which means me recording in French the word "bonjour" will be one audio file on Lili. WikiLucas can record in French the same word "bonjour", it will create an other audio file on Lili. My recording(s), since i come from the South West, will carry the southern accent. Recordings by WikiLucas, who lives 700km East of me, will cary the Lyon area accent. Lingualibre will store 2 recordings, one per user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Hello {{u|Fredericknoronha}}, I have imported {{Q|701734}} so that you can now record words in that dialect. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Feedback about Lingua Libre by Professor Carol Genetti, PhD ==<br />
<br />
'''Dear Members of Lingua Libre,<br />
'''<br />
I am pleased to share a message from Professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Genetti Carol Genetti], a linguist and leading expert in endangered languages. Professor Genetti is author of one of the best books in the field of Linguistics called "How Languages Work". Her vast knowledge and experience are extremely valuable and after reviewing Lingua Libre she said:<br />
<br />
''Thank you for contacting me and letting me know about this initiative. It is an interesting idea. I especially like the multilingual menus -- very helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Are you aware of [https://www.endangeredlanguages.com/ this website], hosted by the University of Hawaii (and, I believe, funded by Google). So one thing that occurs to me is the proliferation of such sites. How will people in an endangered-language community find out about their options, and then make an informed choice about which of these online resources will be best over time for their communities? Should such efforts cross-reference each other?''<br />
<br />
''My second thought has to do with longevity. It takes a significant commitment to support a site like this over time. The challenge is having someone who can keep such sites funded, working, organized, relevant, and engaging users over time. How will you make sure that the data will be available in 10, 50, 150 years? Maybe you get that automatically by being associated with Wikipedia. If so, state that. Also, there should be a clear statement of how such data might be used, and by whom, so speakers know that if they record a wordlist, someone might use if for some purpose without their permission (is that right?).<br />
''<br />
''I'm sorry to have to bring a down-to-earth message to the inspiration and passion for endangered languages that has clearly fueled this work, but having seen other initiatives stumble in this way, I wanted to be sure that you are thinking about this. Speakers will be entrusting you with such valuable pieces of their lives and their cultures. How will you safeguard this over time? Let people know.<br />
''<br />
''Those issues aside, here are a couple of other comments:''<br />
<br />
* There should be a statement targeted for speakers of endangered languages - why would they want to do this? What is the value for them and their communities? What will happen to the recordings? etc.''<br />
* Will you provide speakers with suggestions for what vocabulary to record, e.g. greetings, colors, verb forms?''<br />
* It would be helpful if it was clear from the large list of languages which ones have recordings. Maybe put those in a different color font?''<br />
* It would be helpful to include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language. Otherwise, someone's grandkids coming to this in 30 years will not know what the words mean.''<br />
* Do you want to move beyond single words to a piece of connected discourse, such as a short poem or story, a song, or the reading of some common text (such as a sentence from the UN Declaration for Linguistic Rights)?''<br />
* Should there be a means to flag inappropriate content?''<br />
<br />
''I hope that you find this helpful. And I'm so glad you liked my book! It is lovely to hear that people have found it helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Carol Genetti''<br />
''Vice Provost for Graduate and Postdoctoral Programs''<br />
''NYU Abu Dhabi''<br />
''(she/her/hers)''<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, this is some interesting feedback.<br />
:* "What will happen to the recordings?": Our homepage lacks such important information. We should plan a redesign for 2022 (inspired by the homepage of [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/ Common Voice]?) so that we finally have a homepage that properly explains what Lingua Libre is and can do.<br />
:* "Suggestions of things to record?": This already exists. They're called Lists. We have some pending improvements on that matter (easier to find and contribute to, etc.)<br />
:* "Show which languages have recordings": The datasets page could help, but I guess it would be interesting to put that on an easy-to-find page (again, like [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/languages Common Voice's languages page]?)<br />
:* "Include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language": we only support "transcription" for now.<br />
:** How could we even "link" the recordings to translations? (Lexemes? Plain text?)<br />
:** Who would have to do that? (the locutor? a dedicated team of contributors?)<br />
:** Where would it be done? (in the RecordWizard?)<br />
:** -> That's an interesting thing to think about, but might be slightly out of scope right now<br />
:* "Sentences, stories, songs...?": Yes, indeed. The Record Wizard is already able to do that (with some config tweaks that have to be done by the locutor), but it would be great to streamline this further. Dedicated UI, ability to record an audiobook (or Wikipedia, Wikisource, Wikinews article) as a mixture of sentences that can be stored locally before being all merged together into one audio file sent to Commons, ability for multiple contributors to work on the same book/article... That's something we should also discuss with the [https://librivox.org/ Librivox] folks: they use Audacity so far, but they might be interested in a tool that's better suited to their needs.<br />
:* "flag inappropriate content?": My insight is focused on technical stuff. This sounds more like some editorial guidelines that would have to be debated by the community.<br />
:* "'''longevity'''?": Should Lingua Libre vanish tomorrow, the audio recordings are not lost. They're all stored on Wikimedia Commons, and that makes them as "immortal" as files stored on hard disks, SSDs, CDs or magnetic bands and mirrored half a dozen times around the world can be. However, I can't say much about our Wikibase, which, at the current time, '''is the only place where all the recordings and locutor-related metadata is stored'''. That's a serious single point of failure. There are no dumps and therefore no mirrorring. We'll definitely have to discuss it with Wikimedia France and the Tech Team.<br />
:Hopefully my answers are clear and comprehensible. I'm pleased to have received feedback from Pr. Genetti. Now it's our turn to take matters in our hands! --[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to delete lists? ==<br />
:{{Done}} <br />
Hello, recently I completed some lists. Now everything is done and those lists are needless. Is there any possibility to delete lists? Greetings --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} hello, admins can delete those lists. The lists you created are [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?target=Onkel+Tomm&namespace=142&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions here]. Which ones should I delete ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Hello Yug, please delete all 8 lists, because they are all finally finished. Thanks. --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 13:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} We are clean ! thank for asking, it keeps the place clean :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Case study ==<br />
Hello all, I noticed a file upload which gather interesting use cases.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Item || Label || Speaker || Account || Filename || Category<br />
|-<br />
| [[Q709231]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q709231&oldid=689510 arch.]) || "Ingenieur" || [[Q674858]] 'fleur' || User:Beat_Ruest || [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] || [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest]]<br />
|-<br />
| — || Mispelling of "Ingénieur" || – || – || Carries the misspelling || Category page was not created, therefor virtually "lost" to Wikimedia Commons and [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
* Question 1: How do we handle mispelling ? I assume renaming ALL THREE of the [[Q709231]]'s label AND Property:P3 'recording' AND Wikimedia file [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] rename. Is that ok or will it break something ?<br />
* Question 2: Category should be automatically created. How do we go for this ? I assume a request on [[LinguaLibre:Bot]]<br />
* Question 3: What about the category by *speaker/voice* ([[Q709231]] 'fleur'), which curently doesn't exist, and which can have multiple speakers with the same name 'fleur' ?<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Question 1: it is a good start. I guess, we need to fix it both on Lingua Libre and on Wikimedia Commons<br />
: Question 2: you speak about categories on Wikimedia Commons? If so, I guess a bot can do it (Lingua Libre Bot or another one).<br />
: Question 3: actually the speaker is identified as "fleur (Beat Ruest)". Only one locutor of Beat Ruest can use the nickname "fleur".<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Q1, Q2 agree.<br />
::Q3 : {{ping|Pamputt}} check the categories on [[:commons:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} you mean the problem is [[:c:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] is categorized in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest" and not in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by fleur (Beat Ruest)" or similar name? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, we dont have categorization by '''speaker''' "Fleur (Beat Ruest)". Low importance, but could be a feature request. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gestion de doublons ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]'' (new, needs review!)<br />
<br />
Bonsoir !<br />
<br />
Il y a-t-il une gestion de doublons dans LL pour les mots d'une même langue ? [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 13:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]], si un même locuteur enregistre le même mot alors l'enregistrement précédent sera écrasé (un même locuteur ne peut enregistrer qu'une seule fois le même mot). En revanche, rien n'empêche l'enregistrement d'un même mot par plusieurs locuteurs et locutrices différentes, c'est même un des objectifs de Lingua Libre : mettre en lumière la diversité des prononciations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] : Comment sont alors gérés les homographes non homophones ? ^^ [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]] ([[User talk:Totodu74|talk]]) 00:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Bonjour [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], il est possible d'ajouter des indications entre parenthèses (cette information est stockée à l'aide de {{P|18}}). Voir par exemple {{Q|1685}} et {{Q|1686}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
:::@[[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], salut, la question des homographes est en partie résolue dans nos langues africaines qui sont essentiellement des langues à tons. --[[User:Rçag|Rçag]] ([[User talk:Rçag|talk]]) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Rçag, could you explain your solution a bit so we learn from it.<br />
:{{Ping|BamLifa|Rçag|Pamputt|Totodu74}} the page [[Help:Homographs]] is there to gather best practices. It's new, review and edits welcome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Comment changer de pseudonyme ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, sur les projets de Wikimedia, mon pseudonyme est Manjiro91 (et anciennement GamissimoYT), comment change-t-on de pseudonyme ?<br />
[[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|GamissimoYT}}. Lingua Libre utilise le même pseudo que celui qui est en utilisation sur Wikimedia Commons. Donc si vous voulez utiliser le pesudonyme Manjiro91, déconnectez-vous de Lingua Libre, puis de Wikimedia Commons. Ensuite, connectez vous à Commons avec le pseudo Manjiro91 et enfin reconnectez vous à Lingua Libre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
{{Notif|Pamputt}} Mon pseudonyme Wikimedia Commons est Manjiro91 (anciennement GamissimoYT mais le changement de pseudonyme ne s'effectue pas sur LiLi. [[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|GamissimoYT}}, tu as bien fait les connexions/déconnexions dans l'ordre que j'ai indiqué ? Si tu es sûr que tu es connecté avec Manjiro91 sur Wikimedia Commons, alors tu peux essayer de te déconnecter de Lingua Libre et te reconnecter dans la foulée. Essayer de vider le cache du navigateur peut peut-être aidé aussi. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging of items about languages ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL]] and [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]].''<br />
Hi y'all,<br />
<br />
For the record, I just merge a couple of items about the same language:<br />
* {{Q|52071}} in {{Q|73}}<br />
* {{Q|139228}} in {{Q|183}}<br />
* {{Q|170137}} in {{Q|359}}<br />
* {{Q|683869}} in {{Q|418}}<br />
* {{Q|646169}} in {{Q|6714}}<br />
* {{Q|570518}} in {{Q|52069}}<br />
* {{Q|538624}} in {{Q|84030}}<br />
* {{Q|646173}} in {{Q|390314}}<br />
* {{Q|646161}} in {{Q|502754}}<br />
* {{Q|570510}} in {{Q|489393}}<br />
<br />
I detected them with this SPARQL query: <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql"><br />
SELECT ?idWD (COUNT(?item) AS ?compte) (GROUP_CONCAT(?item) AS ?items) WHERE {<br />
?item prop:P2 entity:Q4 ; prop:P12 ?idWD .<br />
}<br />
GROUP BY ?idWD<br />
HAVING ( ?compte > 1 )<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
Ping {{ping|WikiLucas00}} it seems you are responsible for some of them...<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks VIGNERON for finding them and cleaning it. Now what to do with recording items that use the doublon language item (for example with [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q52071|Duala]]). I think we must modify {{P|4}} for all recording items so that languages are not counted twice and also to clean up the database (there are also transcription problems for items listed in the Duala example). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you {{ping|VIGNERON}} for pointing these out. As you can see, most of them were not created manually but using the tool (the pages wheighted circa 4kB, with labels in many languages). It seems that the Lingua Importer tool has (or had?) a problem, but I could not reproduce it (trying to import languages that are already in LL wikibase).<br/> During last summer's hackathon we talked a bit about languages in our wikibase, but I can't remember why we need to have language elements in our Wikibase, and not just use the existing base of WikiData 🤔 — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MediaWiki customizations of LinguaLibre ==<br />
<br />
Love the MediaWiki skin of LinguaLibre and I am curious of skin and customizations made. Who are the authors? (can not see credits) --[[User:Zblace|Zblace]] ([[User talk:Zblace|talk]]) 10:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The skin is known as BlueLL. The source code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL github]. It has been developed by Wikimedia France in 2020. That's said, it is true there is no licence and credits on Github. I will ask to {{u|Adélaïde Calais WMFr}} if she remember anything so that I can the missing informations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Zblace}}, this skin's author is [[User:0x010C]], and its opensource. Can be reused freely. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:45, 22 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New property: translation ==<br />
Hello, I've created {{P|38}} to be used in case there is no writing in the recording language but instead a translation in the vehicular language. See for example what I did [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q212431&type=revision&diff=743039&oldid=191330 here] and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q58994&type=revision&diff=743044&oldid=580313 there]. Do you agree with that? Any comment? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:It's a good idea! Many users tend to add a translation as they find it important for other people to have. It will also be handy for cases like your second example, where we only have the translation but not the transcription of the source language: we will be able to query the base to see all audios of a language that have a translation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::I am thinking about a way to populate automatically this property via the Record Wizard. Currently, it seems that the Record Wizard populates {{P|18}} when something is written between brackets (see {{Q|1685}} for example but I have not checked recently). So, if we modify the Record Wizard code, it is possible to recognize this is a translation in another language and so to populate {{P|38}}. But I would like to be sure to propose the best way to do it before asking for such development. The idea is to be managed automatically (or at least not completely manually). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 00:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone ! <br />
<br/>This week, Wikimedia France is preparing its budget for the fiscal year to come : July 2022 to June 2023. If there are things you would like to see done or to do with our help on Lingua Libre, please share it on this page : https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection <br />
<br/>Have a great week-end ! --[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 17:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
: {{u|marreromarco}} Thank you for your suggestions. However, I have some reservations about "Add function to "Request" a Pronunciation to Native Speakers" at this current stage for two reasons. First, this will require quite a bit of moderation to correct requests for grammar and spelling (e.g. HASBAND) as well as remove terrible requests. This will place a large burden on a few users and can easily lead to questionable decisions by moderators. Second, Forvo is flooded with requests that are either overly specific (e.g. "He came back from abyss and won the tie.") and, therefore, likely benefit only one user. IMHO, Rdrg109 proposal to focus on providing pronunciations for entries on the various wiktionaries is a better approach to building up the LL at this point. It will provide a solid foundation for users to find any word in LL. It might be a better time to open up LL to general requests once this project is completed and the community has grown. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 15:49, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to get the city country label in SPARQL ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL]].''<br />
I'm working on an Anki extension for LL, but I'm having a little trouble writing the sparql query. In short, I want to be able to get the city and country for a recording in LL. However, when I query P14, I get the link to the item instead of 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'} or 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'}. Instead I hope to get city:"" and country "France" for the first query city:"Paris" and country:"France" for the second one. Any ideas? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Languageseeker}} thanks for your work on a Anki extension. Could you post here the query you have now? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{u|Pamputt}} . The query that I'm using is a very lightly modified version of the bot query. <br />
<br />
:: <syntaxhighlight lang="sparql">ENDPOINT = "https://lingualibre.org/bigdata/namespace/wdq/sparql"<br />
API = "https://lingualibre.org/api.php"<br />
BASEQUERY = """<br />
SELECT DISTINCT<br />
?record ?file ?transcription ?recorded<br />
?languageIso ?languageQid ?languageWMCode<br />
?residence ?learningPlace ?languageLevel<br />
?speaker ?linkeduser<br />
WHERE {<br />
?record prop:P2 entity:Q2 .<br />
?record prop:P3 ?file .<br />
?record prop:P4 ?language .<br />
?record prop:P5 ?speaker .<br />
?record prop:P6 ?recorded .<br />
?record prop:P7 ?transcription .<br />
?language prop:P13 ?languageIso.<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel .<br />
?speaker prop:P11 ?linkeduser .<br />
?speaker prop:P14 ?residence .<br />
?speaker llp:P4 ?speakerLanguagesStatement .<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llv:P4 ?speakerLanguages .<br />
OPTIONAL { ?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel . }<br />
FILTER( ?speakerLanguages = ?language) .<br />
SERVICE wikibase:label {<br />
bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" .<br />
}<br />
#filters<br />
}"""</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
:: Currently, I'm running it with filters = "" because it seems that a query for a single term takes around 70s, while fetching a single transcription takes about 145 seconds. My plan is to group the results by transcription and then write that into a json file to avoid the costly query. Basically, I need the speaker name, the term, their country, their city, the ISO code of the language, date created, and the filename, languageLevel. <br />
<br />
:: For example, for the term un chien, the json would look like:<br />
:: { "term": {"un chien": {"speaker": "Julien Baley", "language": "fra", "city": "", "country": "France", "recorded": "2020-11-27", "filename": "LL-Q150_(fra)-Julien_Baley-un_chien.wav", "languageLevel": "Q15"}}} [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Download datasets]].''<br />
I wrote a [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader python program] that downloads all the files created by one user. For video files, it downloads the full webm. For audio files, the default is to download the wave file. However, for audio files, you can optionally choose either mp3 or ogg files. Currently, the configuration requires a minor modification of lluad.py. If there is strong demand, I will write a command line parser for it. Please report any bugs or errors on the github page. Feature requests are welcome. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Languageseeker}} please add your tool to [[Help:Download datasets]]. It lists several tools with different specifics, your tool is welcome and may help some Python users as well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:41, 22 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Garbage Values in prop:P14 ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]] and [[Help:SPARQL_for_maintenance#.E2.9C.85_Speakers_.E2.86.92_Undefined_place_of_residence]].''<br />
As part of my Anki project, I queried the entire LL database and I'm trying to parse the output of ?speaker prop:P14 ?residence. I've noticed that there are a number of garbage values in provided for P14, such as Q1, Q2, Q103962887, Q6099648, Strasbourg. There seem to be three cases. <br />
# Users wishing to enter an extremely vague place such as Earth or the Universe. These should be set to None.<br />
# Users accidentally linking to a disambiguation page. These require correction. <br />
# Users not even entering a Wikidata item which require manual correction.<br />
<br />
To solve the root of the problem, I propose that P14 should be restricted to only Wikidata items that exist and have P17. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 21:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Languageseeker}} it's a good find. If you still have that SPARQL query under hand please add it into [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]]. Yes, it's something we should clean up i think. There may be some few case where the speaker dont want to share its location but in 95% of cases i think we can go ahead, correct or ask them to correct it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:39, 26 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:I noticed that when creating a new speaker, place of learning is optional. Not cool. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:32, 27 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|YUG}} For the life of me, I can't get the federated query to work, but I have a separate query to get the location and country labels from wikidata. These are the problematic ones. Note, that Q20 is on the list because Q20 "Norway" is missing P17<br />
<br />
* ['MichaelSchoenitzer', None]<br />
* ['D.Muralidharan', None]<br />
* ['Kaderousse', None]<br />
* ['Krokus', None]<br />
* ['विदुला टोकेकर', 'Q103962887']<br />
* ['DoctorandusManhattan', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Justforoc', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Student16 de', None]<br />
* ['Didierwiki', 'Q6099648']<br />
* ['Sarah2149', None]<br />
* ['DomesticFrog', 'Q1']<br />
* ['Drkanchi', None]<br />
* ['Satdeep Gill', None]<br />
* ['Iwan.Aucamp', 'Q20']<br />
* ['Skimel', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Abeɣzan', None]<br />
* ['Gibraltar Rocks', None]<br />
* ['Bomdapatrick', None]<br />
* ['Ibtissam RAHMOUNI', None]<br />
* ['Trabelsiismail', None]<br />
* ['Ziko', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Youcefelallali', None]<br />
* ['Foxxipeter7', None]<br />
* ['Celevra089', None]<br />
* ['Bodhisattwa', None]<br />
* ['Atudu', None]<br />
* ['KageyamaxNishinoya', 'Q30915818']<br />
* ['Darkdadaah', None]<br />
* ['JayashreeVI', None]<br />
* ['रश्मीमहेश', 'Q103962887']<br />
* ['गीता गोविंद नेने', 'Q103893785']<br />
* ['Awangba Mangang', None]<br />
* ['Abigaljo', None]<br />
* ['FaelDaug', 'Q29423162']<br />
[[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:16, 30 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Anki Extension Release ==<br />
<br />
I just released [https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/124265771 Lingua Libre and Forvo Addon]. It has a number of advanced options to improve search results and can run either as a batch operation or on an individual note.<br />
<br />
By default, it first checks Lingua Libre and, if there are no results on Lingua Libre, it then checks Forvo. To run as a pure Lingua Libre extension, you will need to set ''"disable_Forvo" to <code>True</code> in your configuration section.<br />
<br />
Please reports bugs, issues, ideas on [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-and-Forvo-Audio-Downloader github]. I would love any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:23, 31 May 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Help:Download_datasets&diff=764648Help:Download datasets2022-05-30T03:35:47Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Anki Extension for Lingua Libre */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#Subtitle:{{Help:Download_datasets/Header}}}}<br />
<languages/><br />
{| class="wikitable right" style="float:right;"<br />
! colspan=2| <translate><!--T:1--> Data size — 2022/02</translate><br />
|-<br />
| <translate><!--T:2--> Audios files</translate> || 800,000+<br />
|-<br />
| <translate><!--T:3--> Average size</translate> || 100kB<br />
|-<br />
| <translate><!--T:4--> Total size (est.)</translate> || 80GB <!--<br />
|-<br />
| <translate><!--T:5--> Safety factor</translate> || 5~10x<br />
|-<br />
! <translate><!--T:6--> Required disk space</translate> || 400~800GB --><br />
|}<br />
<br />
<translate><br />
== Download datasets via click == <!--T:7--><br />
<br />
<!--T:8--><br />
'''Download by language:'''</translate><br />
<br><br />
<translate><br />
<!--T:9--><br />
# Open https://lingualibre.org/datasets/<br />
# Find your language, naming convention is: <code>{qId}-{iso639-3}-{language_English_name}.zip</code><br />
# '''Click to download'''<br />
# On your device, unzip.<br />
<br />
<!--T:10--><br />
'''Post-processing'''</translate><br />
<br><translate><!--T:11--><br />
Refer to the relevant tutorials in [[#See also]] to mass rename, mass convert or mass denoise your downloaded audios.<br />
<br />
== Programmatic tools == <!--T:12--><br />
<br />
<!--T:13--><br />
The tools below first fetch from one or several Wikimedia Commons categories the list of audio files within them.<br />
Some of them allow to filter that list further to focus a single speaker, either by editing their code or by post-processing of the resulting .csv list of audio files. The listed targets are then downloaded at a speed of 500 to 15,000 per hours. Items already present locally and matching the latest Commons version are generally not re-downloaded.<br />
<br />
=== Find your target === <!--T:14--><br />
<br />
<!--T:15--><br />
Categories on Wikimedia Commons are organized as follow:<br />
* [[:Commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by user]] <br />
* [[:Commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation]] (by language)<br />
<br />
=== Python (current)=== <!--T:16--><br />
<br />
<!--T:17--><br />
Dependencies: Python 3.6+<br />
<br />
<!--T:18--><br />
'''Petscan''' and '''Wikiget''' allows to download about 15,000 audio files per hour.<br />
# '''Select your category :''' see [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation]] and [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by user|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by user]], then find your target category,<br />
# '''List target files with [https://petscan.wmflabs.org Petscan] :''' Given a target category on Commons, provides list of target files. [https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?&cb_labels_yes_l=1&cb_labels_no_l=1&edits%5Banons%5D=both&interface_language=en&edits%5Bflagged%5D=both&categories=Lingua%20Libre%20pronunciation-cmn&cb_labels_any_l=1&ns%5B0%5D=1&project=wikimedia&since_rev0=&search_max_results=500&edits%5Bbots%5D=both&ns%5B6%5D=1&language=commons&search_query= Example].<br />
# '''Download target files with [https://pypi.org/project/wikiget/ Wikiget] :''' downloads targets files.<br />
<br />
<!--T:19--><br />
Comments:<br />
* Successful on November 2021, with 730,000 audio downloaded in 20 hours. Sustained average speed : 10 downloads/sec.<br />
* Some delete files on Commons may cause Wikiget to return an error and pause. The script has to be resumed manually. Occurrence have been reported to be around 1/30,000 files. Fix is underway, support the request [https://github.com/clpo13/wikiget/issues/2 on github].<br />
* WikiGet therefore requires a volunteer to supervise the script while running.<br />
* As of December 2021, WikiGet does not support multi-thread downloads. Therefore, to increase the efficiency of the download process it is recommended to run the Python Script on 20-30 terminal windows simultaneously. Each terminal running WikiGet would consume an average of 20 Kb/s.<br />
* WikiGet requires an stable internet connection. Any disruption of 1 second would stop the download process and it requires manual restart of the Python Script.<br />
* [[m:Special:MyLanguage/PetScan|Manual for PetScan]]<br />
* Any question about downloading datasets can be made on the Discord Server of Lingua Libre : https://discord.gg/2WECKUHj<br />
<br />
=== NodeJS (soon) === <!--T:20--><br />
<br />
<!--T:21--><br />
Dependencies: git, nodejs, npm.<br />
<br />
<!--T:22--><br />
A '''WikiapiJS''' script allows to download target category's files, or a root category, its subcategories and contained files. Downloads about 1,400 audio files per hour.<br />
# WikiapiJS is the NodeJS / NPM package allowing scripted API calls upon Wikimedia Commons and LinguaLibre.<br />
# Specific script used to do a given task:<br />
#* Given a category, download all files : https://github.com/hugolpz/WikiapiJS-Eggs/blob/main/wiki-download-many.js<br />
#* Given a root category, list subcategories, download all files: https://github.com/hugolpz/WikiapiJS-Eggs/blob/main/wiki-download_by_root_category-many.js<br />
<br />
<!--T:23--><br />
Comments, as of December 2021:<br />
* Successful on December 2021, with 400 audios downloaded in 16 minutes. Sustained average speed : 0.4 downloads/sec.<br />
* Successfully process single category's files.<br />
* Successfully process root category and subcategories' files, generating ./isocode/ folders.<br />
* Scalability tests for resilience with high amounts requests >500 to 100,000 items is required.<br />
* Performance improvements are under consideration [https://github.com/kanasimi/wikiapi/issues/51#issuecomment-1002267855 on github].<br />
<br />
=== Python (slow) === <!--T:24--><br />
<br />
<!--T:25--><br />
Dependencies: python.<br />
<br />
<!--T:26--><br />
'''CommonsDownloadTool.py''' is a python script which formerly created datasets for LinguaLibre. It can be hacked and tinkered to your needs. To download all datasets as zips :<br />
* Download scripts : <br />
** [https://github.com/lingua-libre/operations/blob/master/create_datasets.sh create_datasets.sh] - creates CommonsDownloadTool's commands.<br />
** [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool/blob/master/commons_download_tool.py CommonsDownloadTool/commons_download_tool.py] - core script.<br />
* Read them a bit, move them where they fit the best on you computer so they require the minimum of editing<br />
* Edit as needed so the paths are correct, make it work.<br />
* Run <code>create_datasets.sh</code><br />
* Check if the number of files in the downloaded zips matches the number of files in [[:Commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation]]<br />
<br />
<!--T:27--><br />
Comments:<br />
* Last ran on February 2021, stopped due to slow speed.<br />
* This script is slow and has been phased out as Lingualibre grown too much.<br />
* The page may gain from some html and styling.<br />
* Proposals go on https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/lingua_libre/ or on the [[LinguaLibre:Chat room]].<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Python with UI (Sulochanaviji) ===<br />
:''Description to complete, see its [https://github.com/sulochanaviji/Wiki-bulk-downloader github repository].''<br />
[[:meta:User:Sulochanaviji|User:Sulochanaviji]] coded a Django/Python tool with a HTML/CSS user interface. See its [https://github.com/sulochanaviji/Wiki-bulk-downloader github repository].<br />
<br />
=== Python Script to Download a User's Pronunciations ===<br />
This script downloads all the pronunciations added by a user into a folder by first querying the Lingua Libre database and then downloading the files from Commons. See its [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader github repository]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 01:57, 24 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Anki Extension for Lingua Libre ===<br />
The [https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/124265771 Lingua Libre and Forvo Addon]. It has a number of advanced options to improve search results and can run either as a batch operation or on an individual note.<br />
<br />
By default, it first checks Lingua Libre and, if there are no results on Lingua Libre, it then checks Forvo. To run as a pure Lingua Libre extension, you will need to set "disable_Forvo": "True" in your configuration section.<br />
<br />
Please reports bugs, issues, ideas on [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-and-Forvo-Audio-Downloader github]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:35, 30 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Java (not tested) === <!--T:28--><br />
<br />
<!--T:29--><br />
Dependencies:<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="bash"><br />
sudo apt-get install default-jre # install Java environment<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
<!--T:30--><br />
Usage:<br />
* Open [https://github.com/MarcoFalke/wiki-java-tools/releases GitHub Wiki-java-tools project page].<br />
* Find the last <code>Imker</code> release.<br />
* Download Imker_vxx.xx.xx'''.zip''' archive<br />
* Extract the .zip file<br />
* Run as follow :<br />
** On Windows : start the .exe file.<br />
** On Ubuntu, open shell then : <br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="bash"><br />
$java -jar imker-cli.jar -o ./myFolder/ -c 'CategoryName' # Downloads all medias within Wikimedia Commons's category "CategoryName"<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
<!--T:31--><br />
Comments :<br />
* Not used yet by any LinguaLibre member. If you do, please share your experience of this tool.<br />
<br />
==== Manual ==== <!--T:32--><br />
</translate><br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="bash"><br />
Imker -- Wikimedia Commons batch downloading tool.<br />
<br />
Usage: java -jar imker-cli.jar [options]<br />
Options:<br />
--category, -c<br />
Use the specified Wiki category as download source.<br />
--domain, -d<br />
Wiki domain to fetch from<br />
Default: commons.wikimedia.org<br />
--file, -f<br />
Use the specified local file as download source.<br />
* --outfolder, -o<br />
The output folder.<br />
--page, -p<br />
Use the specified Wiki page as download source.<br />
<br />
The download source must be ONE of the following:<br />
↳ A Wiki category (Example: --category=&quot;Denver, Colorado&quot;)<br />
↳ A Wiki page (Example: --page=&quot;Sandboarding&quot;)<br />
↳ A local file (Example: --file=&quot;Documents/files.txt&quot;; One filename per line!)<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
<translate><br />
== See also == <!--T:33--><br />
<br />
<!--T:34--><br />
* [[<tvar|1>Special:MyLanguage/Help:Renaming</>|Help:Renaming]]<br />
* [[<tvar|2>Special:MyLanguage/Help:Converting audios</>|Help:Converting audios]]<br />
* [[<tvar|3>Special:MyLanguage/Help:Embed audio in HTML</>|Help:Embed audio in HTML]]<br />
* [[<tvar|3>:phab:T261519</>]]<br />
</translate><br />
{{Lingua_Libre_scripts}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Lingua Libre:Help]]</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Help:Download_datasets&diff=764647Help:Download datasets2022-05-30T03:35:36Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Python Script to Download a User's Pronunciations */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#Subtitle:{{Help:Download_datasets/Header}}}}<br />
<languages/><br />
{| class="wikitable right" style="float:right;"<br />
! colspan=2| <translate><!--T:1--> Data size — 2022/02</translate><br />
|-<br />
| <translate><!--T:2--> Audios files</translate> || 800,000+<br />
|-<br />
| <translate><!--T:3--> Average size</translate> || 100kB<br />
|-<br />
| <translate><!--T:4--> Total size (est.)</translate> || 80GB <!--<br />
|-<br />
| <translate><!--T:5--> Safety factor</translate> || 5~10x<br />
|-<br />
! <translate><!--T:6--> Required disk space</translate> || 400~800GB --><br />
|}<br />
<br />
<translate><br />
== Download datasets via click == <!--T:7--><br />
<br />
<!--T:8--><br />
'''Download by language:'''</translate><br />
<br><br />
<translate><br />
<!--T:9--><br />
# Open https://lingualibre.org/datasets/<br />
# Find your language, naming convention is: <code>{qId}-{iso639-3}-{language_English_name}.zip</code><br />
# '''Click to download'''<br />
# On your device, unzip.<br />
<br />
<!--T:10--><br />
'''Post-processing'''</translate><br />
<br><translate><!--T:11--><br />
Refer to the relevant tutorials in [[#See also]] to mass rename, mass convert or mass denoise your downloaded audios.<br />
<br />
== Programmatic tools == <!--T:12--><br />
<br />
<!--T:13--><br />
The tools below first fetch from one or several Wikimedia Commons categories the list of audio files within them.<br />
Some of them allow to filter that list further to focus a single speaker, either by editing their code or by post-processing of the resulting .csv list of audio files. The listed targets are then downloaded at a speed of 500 to 15,000 per hours. Items already present locally and matching the latest Commons version are generally not re-downloaded.<br />
<br />
=== Find your target === <!--T:14--><br />
<br />
<!--T:15--><br />
Categories on Wikimedia Commons are organized as follow:<br />
* [[:Commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by user]] <br />
* [[:Commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation]] (by language)<br />
<br />
=== Python (current)=== <!--T:16--><br />
<br />
<!--T:17--><br />
Dependencies: Python 3.6+<br />
<br />
<!--T:18--><br />
'''Petscan''' and '''Wikiget''' allows to download about 15,000 audio files per hour.<br />
# '''Select your category :''' see [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation]] and [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by user|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by user]], then find your target category,<br />
# '''List target files with [https://petscan.wmflabs.org Petscan] :''' Given a target category on Commons, provides list of target files. [https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?&cb_labels_yes_l=1&cb_labels_no_l=1&edits%5Banons%5D=both&interface_language=en&edits%5Bflagged%5D=both&categories=Lingua%20Libre%20pronunciation-cmn&cb_labels_any_l=1&ns%5B0%5D=1&project=wikimedia&since_rev0=&search_max_results=500&edits%5Bbots%5D=both&ns%5B6%5D=1&language=commons&search_query= Example].<br />
# '''Download target files with [https://pypi.org/project/wikiget/ Wikiget] :''' downloads targets files.<br />
<br />
<!--T:19--><br />
Comments:<br />
* Successful on November 2021, with 730,000 audio downloaded in 20 hours. Sustained average speed : 10 downloads/sec.<br />
* Some delete files on Commons may cause Wikiget to return an error and pause. The script has to be resumed manually. Occurrence have been reported to be around 1/30,000 files. Fix is underway, support the request [https://github.com/clpo13/wikiget/issues/2 on github].<br />
* WikiGet therefore requires a volunteer to supervise the script while running.<br />
* As of December 2021, WikiGet does not support multi-thread downloads. Therefore, to increase the efficiency of the download process it is recommended to run the Python Script on 20-30 terminal windows simultaneously. Each terminal running WikiGet would consume an average of 20 Kb/s.<br />
* WikiGet requires an stable internet connection. Any disruption of 1 second would stop the download process and it requires manual restart of the Python Script.<br />
* [[m:Special:MyLanguage/PetScan|Manual for PetScan]]<br />
* Any question about downloading datasets can be made on the Discord Server of Lingua Libre : https://discord.gg/2WECKUHj<br />
<br />
=== NodeJS (soon) === <!--T:20--><br />
<br />
<!--T:21--><br />
Dependencies: git, nodejs, npm.<br />
<br />
<!--T:22--><br />
A '''WikiapiJS''' script allows to download target category's files, or a root category, its subcategories and contained files. Downloads about 1,400 audio files per hour.<br />
# WikiapiJS is the NodeJS / NPM package allowing scripted API calls upon Wikimedia Commons and LinguaLibre.<br />
# Specific script used to do a given task:<br />
#* Given a category, download all files : https://github.com/hugolpz/WikiapiJS-Eggs/blob/main/wiki-download-many.js<br />
#* Given a root category, list subcategories, download all files: https://github.com/hugolpz/WikiapiJS-Eggs/blob/main/wiki-download_by_root_category-many.js<br />
<br />
<!--T:23--><br />
Comments, as of December 2021:<br />
* Successful on December 2021, with 400 audios downloaded in 16 minutes. Sustained average speed : 0.4 downloads/sec.<br />
* Successfully process single category's files.<br />
* Successfully process root category and subcategories' files, generating ./isocode/ folders.<br />
* Scalability tests for resilience with high amounts requests >500 to 100,000 items is required.<br />
* Performance improvements are under consideration [https://github.com/kanasimi/wikiapi/issues/51#issuecomment-1002267855 on github].<br />
<br />
=== Python (slow) === <!--T:24--><br />
<br />
<!--T:25--><br />
Dependencies: python.<br />
<br />
<!--T:26--><br />
'''CommonsDownloadTool.py''' is a python script which formerly created datasets for LinguaLibre. It can be hacked and tinkered to your needs. To download all datasets as zips :<br />
* Download scripts : <br />
** [https://github.com/lingua-libre/operations/blob/master/create_datasets.sh create_datasets.sh] - creates CommonsDownloadTool's commands.<br />
** [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool/blob/master/commons_download_tool.py CommonsDownloadTool/commons_download_tool.py] - core script.<br />
* Read them a bit, move them where they fit the best on you computer so they require the minimum of editing<br />
* Edit as needed so the paths are correct, make it work.<br />
* Run <code>create_datasets.sh</code><br />
* Check if the number of files in the downloaded zips matches the number of files in [[:Commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation]]<br />
<br />
<!--T:27--><br />
Comments:<br />
* Last ran on February 2021, stopped due to slow speed.<br />
* This script is slow and has been phased out as Lingualibre grown too much.<br />
* The page may gain from some html and styling.<br />
* Proposals go on https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/lingua_libre/ or on the [[LinguaLibre:Chat room]].<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Python with UI (Sulochanaviji) ===<br />
:''Description to complete, see its [https://github.com/sulochanaviji/Wiki-bulk-downloader github repository].''<br />
[[:meta:User:Sulochanaviji|User:Sulochanaviji]] coded a Django/Python tool with a HTML/CSS user interface. See its [https://github.com/sulochanaviji/Wiki-bulk-downloader github repository].<br />
<br />
=== Python Script to Download a User's Pronunciations ===<br />
This script downloads all the pronunciations added by a user into a folder by first querying the Lingua Libre database and then downloading the files from Commons. See its [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader github repository]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 01:57, 24 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Anki Extension for Lingua Libre ===<br />
The [https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/124265771 Lingua Libre and Forvo Addon]. It has a number of advanced options to improve search results and can run either as a batch operation or on an individual note.<br />
<br />
By default, it first checks Lingua Libre and, if there are no results on Lingua Libre, it then checks Forvo. To run as a pure Lingua Libre extension, you will need to set "disable_Forvo": "True" in your configuration section.<br />
<br />
Please reports bugs, issues, ideas on [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-and-Forvo-Audio-Downloader github] [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:35, 30 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Java (not tested) === <!--T:28--><br />
<br />
<!--T:29--><br />
Dependencies:<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="bash"><br />
sudo apt-get install default-jre # install Java environment<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
<!--T:30--><br />
Usage:<br />
* Open [https://github.com/MarcoFalke/wiki-java-tools/releases GitHub Wiki-java-tools project page].<br />
* Find the last <code>Imker</code> release.<br />
* Download Imker_vxx.xx.xx'''.zip''' archive<br />
* Extract the .zip file<br />
* Run as follow :<br />
** On Windows : start the .exe file.<br />
** On Ubuntu, open shell then : <br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="bash"><br />
$java -jar imker-cli.jar -o ./myFolder/ -c 'CategoryName' # Downloads all medias within Wikimedia Commons's category "CategoryName"<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
<!--T:31--><br />
Comments :<br />
* Not used yet by any LinguaLibre member. If you do, please share your experience of this tool.<br />
<br />
==== Manual ==== <!--T:32--><br />
</translate><br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="bash"><br />
Imker -- Wikimedia Commons batch downloading tool.<br />
<br />
Usage: java -jar imker-cli.jar [options]<br />
Options:<br />
--category, -c<br />
Use the specified Wiki category as download source.<br />
--domain, -d<br />
Wiki domain to fetch from<br />
Default: commons.wikimedia.org<br />
--file, -f<br />
Use the specified local file as download source.<br />
* --outfolder, -o<br />
The output folder.<br />
--page, -p<br />
Use the specified Wiki page as download source.<br />
<br />
The download source must be ONE of the following:<br />
↳ A Wiki category (Example: --category=&quot;Denver, Colorado&quot;)<br />
↳ A Wiki page (Example: --page=&quot;Sandboarding&quot;)<br />
↳ A local file (Example: --file=&quot;Documents/files.txt&quot;; One filename per line!)<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
<translate><br />
== See also == <!--T:33--><br />
<br />
<!--T:34--><br />
* [[<tvar|1>Special:MyLanguage/Help:Renaming</>|Help:Renaming]]<br />
* [[<tvar|2>Special:MyLanguage/Help:Converting audios</>|Help:Converting audios]]<br />
* [[<tvar|3>Special:MyLanguage/Help:Embed audio in HTML</>|Help:Embed audio in HTML]]<br />
* [[<tvar|3>:phab:T261519</>]]<br />
</translate><br />
{{Lingua_Libre_scripts}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Lingua Libre:Help]]</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=764646LinguaLibre:Chat room2022-05-30T02:16:05Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Garbage Values in prop:P14 */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
{{Lang-CR}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
{{LL:Chat room/FAQ}}<br />
__TOC__<br />
<!-- **** DO NOT EDIT CONTENT ABOVE **** --><br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publish on Wikimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just tested, but my records are not published on Commons. My tests: on Firefox, then on Chrome, with 50, then with 1 expression (s), with license CC3.0-BY-SA and CC1.0. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 06:51, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[[File:LiLi April 2021 - Publish on Wikimedia Commons.png|thumb|Problème de publication sur Wikimedia Commons]]<br />
:[[phab:T281636]] —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 07:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Usually I have the same with the first two recordings in a session. Then I can upload them again at the end. Try again with more recordings, and using "retry filed upload" button. [[User:Poemat|Poemat]] ([[User talk:Poemat|talk]]) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: Yup, I had this bug many times. (I say "had" because I don't remember having encountered it after the fire incident.) Just don't give up and it should be published eventually. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::(As of 3 May 2021 and as I checked, I'm not aware of any code changes ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/commits/master history]) which may have of affected this. Seb35 made some other code change this same day.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
I add a user who has the same problem: {{u|Le Commissaire}}. —[[User:Eihel-LiLi|Eihel-LiLi]] ([[User talk:Eihel-LiLi|talk]]) 15:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Bonjour {{ping|Seb35}}, Faudrait voir avec {{u|Le Commissaire}} si le problème persiste aussi (avant de clore le ticket Phab. Sincères salutations. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 10:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::J’ai mis un message à Le Commissaire sur sa page de discussion.<br />
::::::Le problème que vous avez eu était spécifique à votre compte, c’est peut-être arrivé à d’autres personnes mais ça semble assez rare. Aussi, à partir du moment où un utilisateur a réussi à faire un envoi vers Commons, alors c’est un problème différent du vôtre ([[:phabricator:T275957|celui-ci, qui ressemble mais l’erreur est intermittente]]). Plus globalement, il faudrait que le message d’erreur soit explicite plutôt que d’aller à chercher dans la console du navigateur, je vais ouvrir un ticket Phabricator en ce sens. [[User:Seb35|Seb35]] ([[User talk:Seb35|talk]]) 10:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exclusion lists ==<br />
If anyone uses the regularly updated [[user:Olafbot|Olafbot's]] lists of wanted words ([[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]], etc.), and spotted an item that should be removed without recording, you can use the brand new exclusion lists to remove it. For example on the list [[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]] there was the word "abandonar", which apparently doesn't belong to the contemporary French corpus. Having added it on the exclusion list (here: [[user:Olafbot/exclusion list/Fra]]) the bot knows this item should never appear in French lists it maintains, and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries&diff=619214&oldid=606068 removes it] during the next update. <br />
<br />
Each "Lemmas without audio" list ({{Olafbot-wikt}}) has a corresponding exclusion list ({{Olafbot-exclusion}}). I hope it will help.<br />
<br />
Normally I would add a link to the exclusion list in a description of each lemmas list, but unfortunately, Lingua Libre engine doesn't allow adding any kind of comments or descriptions to lists, so this ad is the only way to spread a word about the new functionality. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}} Thank you so much for this useful new function! Indeed, the Record Wizard does not yet understand comments, categories nor templates on List pages, but this will be considered for future updates. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 18:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ajout d'une nouvelle langue ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour !<br />
<br />
Je souhaite ajouter la langue Q3196953 mais en suivant la [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Help:Add_a_new_language/fr procédure], je ne vois pas LinguaImporter. Quelqu'un peut-il me dire pourquoi?<br />
<br />
Cdt,<br />
BamLifa<br />
: {{ping|BamLifa}} c'est parce que tu n'es pas administrateur. Je viens d'importer le {{Q|646152}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, merci beaucoup pour cette précision. Si cette option n'est réservée qu'aux admins, pourquoi en parler dans la doc sans cette précision ? En plus, vue la multitude des langues que nous avons qui n'existent pas encore chez Lingua libre, ne pensez-vous pas que vous devriez simplifier cette tâche ? J'ai encore une autre langue à ajouter, le Bira (bila). [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 12:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|BamLifa}} c'est indiqué sur cette page (c'est même le titre de la section (Outil pour les administrateurs)). Je ne me rappelle pas pourquoi c'est réservé aux admins mais ça limite au moins les vandales qui voudraient importer des choses qui ne sont pas des langues. Bref, j'ai importé le {{Q|656403}} et le {{Q|656404}}. Si ce ne sont pas les bonnes langues, peux-tu me donner le code ISO 639-3 correspondant (ou au moins l'identifiant Wikidata) ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Merci beaucoup. [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 05:34, 22 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lists still don't work properly ==<br />
<br />
{{Ping|WikiLucas00}} {{Ping|Poslovitch}} It's better than [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Lists_stopped_working|before]], but still, sometimes the Record Wizard hangs when a list is chosen.<br />
Then I have to reload the page, and try again. Usually the second or the third time of trying the same list, it starts to work.<br />
Probably a race condition. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}}It also happens to me sometimes, but I think that it could be related to the button for removing words you already recorded. When you load a list of words you never recorded (typically Olafbot's lists), ticking the button seems to kill the loading. Best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 10:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you. Indeed, with this switch unchecked everything seems to work. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 16:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liste des mots à prononcer ==<br />
<br />
Salut ! Existe-t-il une page où des mots peuvent être ajoutés pour qu'un bon samaritain puisse parler ? [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 11:30, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|Vivaelcelta}}, les listes sont faites pour cela. Vous pouvez [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Create_your_own_lists|créer votre propre liste]] qui pourra ensuite être enregistrée par n'importe qui. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci {{u|Pamputt}}. — [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 22:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Projet Outils pour la patrouille ==<br />
:''See [[LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol assistance tool prototyping project]].''<br />
{{LangSwitch<br />
|fr=Salut,<br />
<br />
cette semaine commence un projet menés par des étudiants des formations IARF-RODECO de l’Université Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier concernant le prototypage d’outils de patrouille. Je suis, assisté par Adélaïde Calais, le superviseur de ce projet. Les étudiants sont en informatique avec une spécialisation en intelligence artificielle. L’idée est de leur faire prototyper (voire développer) des outils pour aider la patrouille de Lingua Libre en détectant automatiquement toutes sortes de problèmes. Nous avons déjà identifier quelques problèmes : clics, grésillements, bruits parasites et mauvaises prononciations (libellés et enregistrements pas raccord).<br />
<br />
Et nous avons besoin de la communauté sur deux points : <br />
# y a-t-il d’autres problèmes auxquels vous pensez ?<br />
# nous avons besoin, pour que les étudiants puissent travailler, d’enregistrements avec défauts. Si vous les avez réenregistrés, c’est pas grave, Commons a un historique. N’hésitez pas à nous communiquer les enregistrements qui ont ou avaient des défauts !<br />
<br />
Enfin, j’ai créé une page de projet accessible [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|ici]] (page traduite).<br />
<br />
(Si certain·es peuvent traduire ce message en anglais, c’est super cool.)<br />
<br />
À+,<br />
|en=Hi,<br />
<br />
This week, a project lead by student of University Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier is starting. It will be about the prototyping of patrolling tools. I supervise this project, assisted by Adélaïde Calais. The students study computer science with a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. The aim is to have them prototyping (or even developing) tools to help Lingua Libre's patrol, by automatically detecting any kind of mistake/error related to the files. We already identified a few types of mistakes: clicks, crackles, pops and labelling issues (wrong label/wrong language).<br />
<br />
We need the community on two points : <br />
# are there other problems you could think of? <br />
# we need some recordings having issues, in order for the students to be able to work. If you already recorded them again, it is not a big deal, Commons has a file history. Don't hesitate to provide us the files that have or had problems.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I created a project page, available [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|here]].<br />
<br />
See you,}}<br />
[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 09:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], Translated page —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 19:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], [[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde]], could you specify the dates for this project ? <br />
::Also, were your point 1 and two answered by the community somewhere ? (If not I could give it a try) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug}} Hi, I updated the project page with the dates. And I didn’t get any answers to my questions. [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 11:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rashidun Caliphate ==<br />
<br />
Hello {{ping|Zinou2go}},<br />
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q13955_(ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة_الراشدة.wav LL-Q13955 (ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة الراشدة.wav] is problematic (currently {{Q|Q204439}} on LiLi): it contains several cuts (clicks). I proposed the file for deletion in Commons. The recordings seem to be working better, could you record Rashidun Caliphate again? I didn't check the other records, but they are likely to have "clicks" as well. Also, can an admin delete this item on LiLi, please? Cordially. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Eihel}} Please do not nominate files for deletion before asking for the speaker to record it again and waiting a while for their answer. Also, these recordings will come useful for the team currently working on the audio issues of Lingua Libre, so we'd better not delete them (I thought you read my messages on Discord about this). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{Ping|WikiLucas00}}, J'ai enlevé la suppression sur Commons. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Code of Conduct ==<br />
Hi everyone, I just noticed again MediaWiki's [[:mw:Code of Conduct]] (2015) and Wikimedia Foundation's [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02). Back in 2015, 0x010C included the first one as a condition to contribute to [https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard RecordWizard's codebase]. As far as I know, Lili.org and its community, so far, [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Code+of+conduct has no Code of Conduct]. We may be ''implicitely'' binded by it or by some Wikimedia France's Code of Conduct, but it would be cleaner to ''explicitly'' adopt one and display it here, in written. We could therefor do the following :<br />
# Short round to confirm with have nothing in place so far.<br />
# Vote for 2 months to adopt the most recent [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02)<br />
# Copy the text into [[LinguaLibre:Universal Code of Conduct]].<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Pre-discussion ===<br />
Do we already have a Code of Conduct binding LinguaLibre ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Vote ===<br />
''Are you for or against adopting the [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021) as a code of conduct for LinguaLibre's community ?''<br><br />
''Possible votes : {{tl|support}} • {{tl|weak support}} • {{tl|weak oppose}} • {{tl|oppose}}''<br />
* {{Support}} (proposer) — better to be explicit, have a framework in place, just to be clear to all on where we stand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre website should be more appealing to Language Learners ==<br />
:''See also [https://forvo.com Forvo.com].''<br />
It would be useful if LinguaLibre follows the example of Forvo to increase the number of language learners interested in the Project.<br />
<br />
Forvo.com has a way of displaying the information that engage users and makes it very easy to find pronunciations. <br />
<br />
For example, if someone wants to learn how to pronounce "Honoré de Balzac" in French, it would be faster to find the audio on Forvo than on LinguaLibre. Also, Forvo displays the data in a way more appealing to language learners:<br />
* https://forvo.com/search/Honoré_de_Balzac/<br />
* https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Honoré+de+Balzac<br />
'''Would it be possible to improve the way that data is displayed on LinguaLibre to make it more appealing to Language Learners ?'''<br />
''In such way, the number of active users recording audios would increase significantly.'' -- [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]]<br />
:Some people previously reported such "issue". There is a [[phab:T252319|ticket]] on Phabricator to keep this in mind. However, the priority is currently given to develop patrol tools for Lingua Libre and we do not expect to see major improvements related to the audio brosing in the coming months (at least if we have no more external developers). I think it is like this because Lingua Libre has been though so that it helps for recording, not for listening; the second is let to the other Wikimedia projects, mainly Wiktionaries et Wikidata. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::YES ! There are oral discussions and proposals in this direction, but LinguaLibre being a volunteers-based team, we are moving slowly. Forvo is a for-profit entity, it locks the copyright and resale of recordings made on its platform to the speaker-creator and to themselves, to then sell those recordings with a profit. They therefor have money and swift decision-making to sustain their UI/UX efforts. We are shorter on those sides. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Sound Library's forking and hacking ===<br />
'''On the [[LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library|Sound Library]] side''', I was able to duplicate/fork it, which allows to start hack its CSS. Copy those codes into your own namespace :<br />
* [[User:Yug/common.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/common.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]] → [[Special:MyPage/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]]<br />
In those codes, you then have to replace all occurrences of "Yug" by your username, and it's should work. You can start hacking toward a more elegant interface. Note: the JS copy is in your *personal* JS and has a "stop" condition so the various JS instances won't fight. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allow recording only in the user's Native Language to avoid passing "mispronunciations" to Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
I started a discussion on the German Wiktionary because some words on LinguaLibre are not available on the DeWikt. The German Community told me that LinguaLibre adds words into Commons, but the Bot only accepts audios from “few” trusted users using a filter. <br />
<br />
The English and German Wiktionaries use a bot called "DerbethBot" to add audios from Commons. However, the English Wiktionary community asked to block Lingua Libre's recordings because there were non-native speakers recording audios and the Bot had no way to differentiate them from Native speakers. After the audios were introduced in the English Wiktionary they had to forbid adding audios from LinguaLibre:<br />
<br />
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2020/July#Labeling_non-native_audio<br />
<br />
I believe that it is necessary to avoid giving “mispronunciations” to Wictionaries. That is similar to vandalism on a Wiktionary if the reader doesn't know that it is hearing a bad pronunciation and believes that it is “native speaker”:<br />
<br />
''Some suggestions:''<br />
1) Would it be possible to name the audios files to specify if the speaker is a native or not? For example, if a French speaker records the word "maison" it could be named '''"maison-fr-native.ogg"''' . If a language learner records the same word : '''"maison-fr-learner.ogg"'''<br />
<br />
2) A radical way to address the issue would be to only allow to record in one's native language. Of course, users could change it, but strong warnings could be added and always remind people to record only their native language. Forvo seems to take this approach.<br />
<br />
It might be valuable for Linguists to have recordings of non-native speakers to study their accent features in an L-2 Language. However, in my humble opinion the pronunciations added to Wiktionary should be only native speakers and bots should have a way to differentiate them.<br />
<br />
Link to the German Wiktionary discussion about LinguaLibre: <br />
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Teestube#:~:text=von%20technischer%20seite%20gibt%20es%20keinem%20problem%2C%20zwei%20bots%20auf%20de.wiktionary%20arbeiten%20zu%20lassen.<br />
:Hi, this depends on the Wikitionary policy, and it could be different from a language to another one. Anyway, it is already possible to select only recordings done by native speaker. To do that, the speaker has to fill the {{P|16}} property ith the value {{Q|15}} (see for example {{Q|466}}). Other values for {{P|16}} are given [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q5|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sursilvan ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
[[Special:Contributions/Franz.Roos.1955|User:Franz.Roos.1955]] made 2 recordings in [[:en:wp:Sursilvan]] : rauna ([[Q689785]]), tschitta ([[Q689786]]). Sursilvan has no iso code. Do we have a procedure for such languages ? (I forgot if the case already shown up). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:There is not issue. It simply uses the Wikidata identifier when there is no ISO code. Se for example {{Q|1186}}. To record in such languages, we have to create an item for this language/dialect on Lingua Libre, and this is already done for {{Q|74905}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Thank Pamputt for the clarification. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[commons:commons:structured data]] ==<br />
<br />
I've been very pleased with LL's tooling, that does so much of the process of uploading to Commons, sensible naming, description-writing, and categorisation for me; however, I have an idea for an additional step LL could automate. This is in Commons' no-longer-so-new structured data section, which manifests (among other ways) as a tab on the file page.<br />
<br />
As an example of what could be automatically added to a file's datastore, there is a property called 'audio transcription' which serves a similar role to Commons' TimedText subtitle functionality (silly example: [[commons:TimedText:051226-kakapo-billbooming.ogg.en.srt]]) but for shorter clips -- in other words, seemingly designed with applications like LinguaLibre in mind.<br />
<br />
Since these are of the so-called 'monolingual text' datatype, the source language can be specified (or where not part of the main set of languages Wikimedia uses, the special code 'mis' is used and 'language of work or name' used as a qualifier) at the same time as the actual text that is being spoken, which LL has access to since the audio file started out as a text prompt!<br />
<br />
What think y'all? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 04:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Arlo Barnes}} there is [[phab:T239272|Phabricator ticket]] about this topic. Currently there are not yet all properties on Wikidata to fit all Lingua Libre properties. For example, I [[d:Wikidata:Property proposal/language level|proposed to create]] a property for the language level of a speaker but it did not get enough support. SO I guess, we should first list all properties we would like to add on SDC. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [Feature Request] Play next sound automatically while checking recordings ==<br />
<br />
After recording sounds it is important to check them to verify their quality. However, it is very tiring to record 380 words and afterwards have to click 380 times on the ''“Next button”'' while checking them.<br />
<br />
'''After recording, would it be possible to add a button to "Play next sound automatically" ?''' [https://i.imgur.com/XwC34pj.png Screenshot Here] [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, it is already [[phab:T218372|tracked on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "How to use Lingua Libre for your language learning" ==<br />
<br />
I recently found a "new" way to benefit from the sounds on Lingua Libre. I would suggest that it could be advertised on the Lingua Libre main website and on the Wikipedia in French/English:<br />
* [[:en:wp:GoldenDict|GoldenDict]] is a FOSS Dictionary application very valuable for language learners. <br />
<br />
A way to benefit from Lingua Libre recordings is to download the datasets, unzip them and "load" the sounds on GoldenDict (as Sound Directories. [https://i.imgur.com/9avJDgS.png Screenshot here]). In such a way, users have easily an offline "Pronunciation Dictionary". It is very easy to do. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/axRHruk.png screenshot] of how it looks to GoldenDict the French word "fuir". Another example [https://i.imgur.com/Rq0nQCt.png here].<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre sounds can be used with GoldenDict OFFLINE. That is a huge advantage in developing countries, where language learners often do not have reliable internet connection.<br />
<br />
''It would be valuable to create a description on the Lingua Libre website about'' '''"How to use Lingua Libre sounds for your language learning"''' .<br />
<br />
There it would be possible to describe how to use the audios offline with GoldenDict, etc. If more methods are developed (Anki add-on), better GUI, Android App, etc. they could be explained there.--[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:1) '''Reuse of datasets :''' Yes ! Dataset download and reuse must be showcasted and strengthened. I think a "Reuses gallery" page could be created, with screenshot and minimal how-to for GoldenDict, Anki and others.<br />
:2) '''Anki:''' You are the 4th or 5th contributor to rise the need for an Anki add-on. We need to do something on this side, yes. It's more than 1~2 days work and too big for a volunteer work, so we need to apply for a grant. I'am looking in and mapping our options at the moment ({{tl|Grants table}}). At one point we have to jump in and design a project, yes.<br />
:3) For '''e-learning app''', a 5k€ project was designed by myself a year ago. The funding by local regional government was declined, but it could easily be refreshed.<br />
:We have to redesign some projects and apply in early 2022. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::The core question is the Human Resources. <br />
::'''*Daily routines*''' keeps WikiLucas, Pamputt, Poslovitch and myself –aka the community-side contributors— busy maintaining the place, welcoming and guiding new users, cleaning pages, etc. We are now quite smooth, successful and stable on this side.<br />
::To '''*push forward*''' on developments, UI, tools, e-learning, communication, grants, we each have one or two side projects in mind, pushing those <u>''slowly''</u>. But as always in FOSS projects the task ahead is much larger and we could achieve much more with more human resources.<br />
::'''Overall''', it's possible we are at a new turning right now. As things are stable, with road maps available, '''we just need 1 to 3 new coordinators and communicants contributors to tip the dynamic into forward-offensive mode''', with communication therefor new arrivals, new speakers, new devs, new coordinators and really push forward with new events/workshop, funds and SMART features. <br />
::@[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]], I'am currently writing down structuring "community how to" to ease new contributor's jumping in (see [[LinguaLibre:Roles]], [[LinguaLibre:Workshops]], {{tl|Grants table}}). You are doing a nice push on communication (It's FOSS) and with your questions you are mapping out Lili's needs. Pamputt and WikiLucas are following our progresses. All this is pretty interesting. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would like to work on the "Public Relations" Department of LinguaLibre! - EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) : '''Any PR campaign would fail miserably if there is no search function.''' I explain the reasons at the end of this section: [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]]<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 23:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Sound good :) Your outreach to YouTubers and popular FOSS blogs is spot on.<br />
::I am back from a wikibreak, I am cleaning up some last pages, then since the maintenance side is stable I would like to focus my energy on projects design –recording rare languages, technology, PR campaign– and associated grant requests to secure funding and the actual realization of those visions. We can collaborate. You lead on the PR : design your campaign. I can review and help it to fit some Grants formats. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I created a new wiki page in the "events" section of a "PR Campaign for 2022". Please visit [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]] and participate in the discussion with new ideas. EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) I will NOT contribute anymore to a PR campaign. the reasons are explained as comment on the relevant section [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 21:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating a LL catgory for a dialect ==<br />
<br />
Would be grateful if someone could tell me if it's possible to create a LL category for a dialect?<br />
<br />
We're working in Konkani, which has its own (but small) Wikipedia at http://gom.wikipedia.org Under Konkani, there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. <br />
<br />
Would like to create a category for Saxtti (the Salcete dialect of Konkani). This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. Also, it would allow the recordings of many others which might have already been done in Konkani as a how.<br />
<br />
Question: How do we create space for the dialects of a language? <br />
<br />
Thanks very much, in advance! --[[User:Fredericknoronha|Fredericknoronha]] ([[User talk:Fredericknoronha|talk]]) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello {{ping|Fredericknoronha}} and welcome to Lingua Libre. I imported {{Q|700683}} (gom) as it was not on Lingua Libre yet. On Lingua Libre, dialects are treated the same way as languages. You can create an element for your dialect on Wikidata (example for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35359 auvergnat dialect]) and tell us once it is ready, so that we can import it on Lingua Libre with an admin tool. You can also directly create an element for your dialect on Lingua Libre, following the steps described at [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Add_a_new_language|Help:Add a new language]] and taking example of {{Q|1186}}. Don't hesitate to ping an admin if you have any questions.<br />
:All the best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::''« there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. […] This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. »''<br />
::If the writing are similar but only the pronunciation differs depending on where the speaker comes from, it looks like different accents.<br />
::Recordings are specific to a word, a language and a speaker. Which means me recording in French the word "bonjour" will be one audio file on Lili. WikiLucas can record in French the same word "bonjour", it will create an other audio file on Lili. My recording(s), since i come from the South West, will carry the southern accent. Recordings by WikiLucas, who lives 700km East of me, will cary the Lyon area accent. Lingualibre will store 2 recordings, one per user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Hello {{u|Fredericknoronha}}, I have imported {{Q|701734}} so that you can now record words in that dialect. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Feedback about Lingua Libre by Professor Carol Genetti, PhD ==<br />
<br />
'''Dear Members of Lingua Libre,<br />
'''<br />
I am pleased to share a message from Professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Genetti Carol Genetti], a linguist and leading expert in endangered languages. Professor Genetti is author of one of the best books in the field of Linguistics called "How Languages Work". Her vast knowledge and experience are extremely valuable and after reviewing Lingua Libre she said:<br />
<br />
''Thank you for contacting me and letting me know about this initiative. It is an interesting idea. I especially like the multilingual menus -- very helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Are you aware of [https://www.endangeredlanguages.com/ this website], hosted by the University of Hawaii (and, I believe, funded by Google). So one thing that occurs to me is the proliferation of such sites. How will people in an endangered-language community find out about their options, and then make an informed choice about which of these online resources will be best over time for their communities? Should such efforts cross-reference each other?''<br />
<br />
''My second thought has to do with longevity. It takes a significant commitment to support a site like this over time. The challenge is having someone who can keep such sites funded, working, organized, relevant, and engaging users over time. How will you make sure that the data will be available in 10, 50, 150 years? Maybe you get that automatically by being associated with Wikipedia. If so, state that. Also, there should be a clear statement of how such data might be used, and by whom, so speakers know that if they record a wordlist, someone might use if for some purpose without their permission (is that right?).<br />
''<br />
''I'm sorry to have to bring a down-to-earth message to the inspiration and passion for endangered languages that has clearly fueled this work, but having seen other initiatives stumble in this way, I wanted to be sure that you are thinking about this. Speakers will be entrusting you with such valuable pieces of their lives and their cultures. How will you safeguard this over time? Let people know.<br />
''<br />
''Those issues aside, here are a couple of other comments:''<br />
<br />
* There should be a statement targeted for speakers of endangered languages - why would they want to do this? What is the value for them and their communities? What will happen to the recordings? etc.''<br />
* Will you provide speakers with suggestions for what vocabulary to record, e.g. greetings, colors, verb forms?''<br />
* It would be helpful if it was clear from the large list of languages which ones have recordings. Maybe put those in a different color font?''<br />
* It would be helpful to include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language. Otherwise, someone's grandkids coming to this in 30 years will not know what the words mean.''<br />
* Do you want to move beyond single words to a piece of connected discourse, such as a short poem or story, a song, or the reading of some common text (such as a sentence from the UN Declaration for Linguistic Rights)?''<br />
* Should there be a means to flag inappropriate content?''<br />
<br />
''I hope that you find this helpful. And I'm so glad you liked my book! It is lovely to hear that people have found it helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Carol Genetti''<br />
''Vice Provost for Graduate and Postdoctoral Programs''<br />
''NYU Abu Dhabi''<br />
''(she/her/hers)''<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, this is some interesting feedback.<br />
:* "What will happen to the recordings?": Our homepage lacks such important information. We should plan a redesign for 2022 (inspired by the homepage of [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/ Common Voice]?) so that we finally have a homepage that properly explains what Lingua Libre is and can do.<br />
:* "Suggestions of things to record?": This already exists. They're called Lists. We have some pending improvements on that matter (easier to find and contribute to, etc.)<br />
:* "Show which languages have recordings": The datasets page could help, but I guess it would be interesting to put that on an easy-to-find page (again, like [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/languages Common Voice's languages page]?)<br />
:* "Include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language": we only support "transcription" for now.<br />
:** How could we even "link" the recordings to translations? (Lexemes? Plain text?)<br />
:** Who would have to do that? (the locutor? a dedicated team of contributors?)<br />
:** Where would it be done? (in the RecordWizard?)<br />
:** -> That's an interesting thing to think about, but might be slightly out of scope right now<br />
:* "Sentences, stories, songs...?": Yes, indeed. The Record Wizard is already able to do that (with some config tweaks that have to be done by the locutor), but it would be great to streamline this further. Dedicated UI, ability to record an audiobook (or Wikipedia, Wikisource, Wikinews article) as a mixture of sentences that can be stored locally before being all merged together into one audio file sent to Commons, ability for multiple contributors to work on the same book/article... That's something we should also discuss with the [https://librivox.org/ Librivox] folks: they use Audacity so far, but they might be interested in a tool that's better suited to their needs.<br />
:* "flag inappropriate content?": My insight is focused on technical stuff. This sounds more like some editorial guidelines that would have to be debated by the community.<br />
:* "'''longevity'''?": Should Lingua Libre vanish tomorrow, the audio recordings are not lost. They're all stored on Wikimedia Commons, and that makes them as "immortal" as files stored on hard disks, SSDs, CDs or magnetic bands and mirrored half a dozen times around the world can be. However, I can't say much about our Wikibase, which, at the current time, '''is the only place where all the recordings and locutor-related metadata is stored'''. That's a serious single point of failure. There are no dumps and therefore no mirrorring. We'll definitely have to discuss it with Wikimedia France and the Tech Team.<br />
:Hopefully my answers are clear and comprehensible. I'm pleased to have received feedback from Pr. Genetti. Now it's our turn to take matters in our hands! --[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to delete lists? ==<br />
:{{Done}} <br />
Hello, recently I completed some lists. Now everything is done and those lists are needless. Is there any possibility to delete lists? Greetings --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} hello, admins can delete those lists. The lists you created are [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?target=Onkel+Tomm&namespace=142&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions here]. Which ones should I delete ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Hello Yug, please delete all 8 lists, because they are all finally finished. Thanks. --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 13:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} We are clean ! thank for asking, it keeps the place clean :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Case study ==<br />
Hello all, I noticed a file upload which gather interesting use cases.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Item || Label || Speaker || Account || Filename || Category<br />
|-<br />
| [[Q709231]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q709231&oldid=689510 arch.]) || "Ingenieur" || [[Q674858]] 'fleur' || User:Beat_Ruest || [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] || [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest]]<br />
|-<br />
| — || Mispelling of "Ingénieur" || – || – || Carries the misspelling || Category page was not created, therefor virtually "lost" to Wikimedia Commons and [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
* Question 1: How do we handle mispelling ? I assume renaming ALL THREE of the [[Q709231]]'s label AND Property:P3 'recording' AND Wikimedia file [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] rename. Is that ok or will it break something ?<br />
* Question 2: Category should be automatically created. How do we go for this ? I assume a request on [[LinguaLibre:Bot]]<br />
* Question 3: What about the category by *speaker/voice* ([[Q709231]] 'fleur'), which curently doesn't exist, and which can have multiple speakers with the same name 'fleur' ?<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Question 1: it is a good start. I guess, we need to fix it both on Lingua Libre and on Wikimedia Commons<br />
: Question 2: you speak about categories on Wikimedia Commons? If so, I guess a bot can do it (Lingua Libre Bot or another one).<br />
: Question 3: actually the speaker is identified as "fleur (Beat Ruest)". Only one locutor of Beat Ruest can use the nickname "fleur".<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Q1, Q2 agree.<br />
::Q3 : {{ping|Pamputt}} check the categories on [[:commons:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} you mean the problem is [[:c:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] is categorized in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest" and not in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by fleur (Beat Ruest)" or similar name? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, we dont have categorization by '''speaker''' "Fleur (Beat Ruest)". Low importance, but could be a feature request. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gestion de doublons ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]'' (new, needs review!)<br />
<br />
Bonsoir !<br />
<br />
Il y a-t-il une gestion de doublons dans LL pour les mots d'une même langue ? [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 13:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]], si un même locuteur enregistre le même mot alors l'enregistrement précédent sera écrasé (un même locuteur ne peut enregistrer qu'une seule fois le même mot). En revanche, rien n'empêche l'enregistrement d'un même mot par plusieurs locuteurs et locutrices différentes, c'est même un des objectifs de Lingua Libre : mettre en lumière la diversité des prononciations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] : Comment sont alors gérés les homographes non homophones ? ^^ [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]] ([[User talk:Totodu74|talk]]) 00:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Bonjour [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], il est possible d'ajouter des indications entre parenthèses (cette information est stockée à l'aide de {{P|18}}). Voir par exemple {{Q|1685}} et {{Q|1686}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
:::@[[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], salut, la question des homographes est en partie résolue dans nos langues africaines qui sont essentiellement des langues à tons. --[[User:Rçag|Rçag]] ([[User talk:Rçag|talk]]) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Rçag, could you explain your solution a bit so we learn from it.<br />
:{{Ping|BamLifa|Rçag|Pamputt|Totodu74}} the page [[Help:Homographs]] is there to gather best practices. It's new, review and edits welcome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Comment changer de pseudonyme ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, sur les projets de Wikimedia, mon pseudonyme est Manjiro91 (et anciennement GamissimoYT), comment change-t-on de pseudonyme ?<br />
[[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|GamissimoYT}}. Lingua Libre utilise le même pseudo que celui qui est en utilisation sur Wikimedia Commons. Donc si vous voulez utiliser le pesudonyme Manjiro91, déconnectez-vous de Lingua Libre, puis de Wikimedia Commons. Ensuite, connectez vous à Commons avec le pseudo Manjiro91 et enfin reconnectez vous à Lingua Libre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
{{Notif|Pamputt}} Mon pseudonyme Wikimedia Commons est Manjiro91 (anciennement GamissimoYT mais le changement de pseudonyme ne s'effectue pas sur LiLi. [[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|GamissimoYT}}, tu as bien fait les connexions/déconnexions dans l'ordre que j'ai indiqué ? Si tu es sûr que tu es connecté avec Manjiro91 sur Wikimedia Commons, alors tu peux essayer de te déconnecter de Lingua Libre et te reconnecter dans la foulée. Essayer de vider le cache du navigateur peut peut-être aidé aussi. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging of items about languages ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL]] and [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]].''<br />
Hi y'all,<br />
<br />
For the record, I just merge a couple of items about the same language:<br />
* {{Q|52071}} in {{Q|73}}<br />
* {{Q|139228}} in {{Q|183}}<br />
* {{Q|170137}} in {{Q|359}}<br />
* {{Q|683869}} in {{Q|418}}<br />
* {{Q|646169}} in {{Q|6714}}<br />
* {{Q|570518}} in {{Q|52069}}<br />
* {{Q|538624}} in {{Q|84030}}<br />
* {{Q|646173}} in {{Q|390314}}<br />
* {{Q|646161}} in {{Q|502754}}<br />
* {{Q|570510}} in {{Q|489393}}<br />
<br />
I detected them with this SPARQL query: <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql"><br />
SELECT ?idWD (COUNT(?item) AS ?compte) (GROUP_CONCAT(?item) AS ?items) WHERE {<br />
?item prop:P2 entity:Q4 ; prop:P12 ?idWD .<br />
}<br />
GROUP BY ?idWD<br />
HAVING ( ?compte > 1 )<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
Ping {{ping|WikiLucas00}} it seems you are responsible for some of them...<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks VIGNERON for finding them and cleaning it. Now what to do with recording items that use the doublon language item (for example with [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q52071|Duala]]). I think we must modify {{P|4}} for all recording items so that languages are not counted twice and also to clean up the database (there are also transcription problems for items listed in the Duala example). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you {{ping|VIGNERON}} for pointing these out. As you can see, most of them were not created manually but using the tool (the pages wheighted circa 4kB, with labels in many languages). It seems that the Lingua Importer tool has (or had?) a problem, but I could not reproduce it (trying to import languages that are already in LL wikibase).<br/> During last summer's hackathon we talked a bit about languages in our wikibase, but I can't remember why we need to have language elements in our Wikibase, and not just use the existing base of WikiData 🤔 — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MediaWiki customizations of LinguaLibre ==<br />
<br />
Love the MediaWiki skin of LinguaLibre and I am curious of skin and customizations made. Who are the authors? (can not see credits) --[[User:Zblace|Zblace]] ([[User talk:Zblace|talk]]) 10:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The skin is known as BlueLL. The source code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL github]. It has been developed by Wikimedia France in 2020. That's said, it is true there is no licence and credits on Github. I will ask to {{u|Adélaïde Calais WMFr}} if she remember anything so that I can the missing informations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Zblace}}, this skin's author is [[User:0x010C]], and its opensource. Can be reused freely. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:45, 22 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New property: translation ==<br />
Hello, I've created {{P|38}} to be used in case there is no writing in the recording language but instead a translation in the vehicular language. See for example what I did [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q212431&type=revision&diff=743039&oldid=191330 here] and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q58994&type=revision&diff=743044&oldid=580313 there]. Do you agree with that? Any comment? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:It's a good idea! Many users tend to add a translation as they find it important for other people to have. It will also be handy for cases like your second example, where we only have the translation but not the transcription of the source language: we will be able to query the base to see all audios of a language that have a translation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::I am thinking about a way to populate automatically this property via the Record Wizard. Currently, it seems that the Record Wizard populates {{P|18}} when something is written between brackets (see {{Q|1685}} for example but I have not checked recently). So, if we modify the Record Wizard code, it is possible to recognize this is a translation in another language and so to populate {{P|38}}. But I would like to be sure to propose the best way to do it before asking for such development. The idea is to be managed automatically (or at least not completely manually). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 00:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone ! <br />
<br/>This week, Wikimedia France is preparing its budget for the fiscal year to come : July 2022 to June 2023. If there are things you would like to see done or to do with our help on Lingua Libre, please share it on this page : https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection <br />
<br/>Have a great week-end ! --[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 17:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
: {{u|marreromarco}} Thank you for your suggestions. However, I have some reservations about "Add function to "Request" a Pronunciation to Native Speakers" at this current stage for two reasons. First, this will require quite a bit of moderation to correct requests for grammar and spelling (e.g. HASBAND) as well as remove terrible requests. This will place a large burden on a few users and can easily lead to questionable decisions by moderators. Second, Forvo is flooded with requests that are either overly specific (e.g. "He came back from abyss and won the tie.") and, therefore, likely benefit only one user. IMHO, Rdrg109 proposal to focus on providing pronunciations for entries on the various wiktionaries is a better approach to building up the LL at this point. It will provide a solid foundation for users to find any word in LL. It might be a better time to open up LL to general requests once this project is completed and the community has grown. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 15:49, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to get the city country label in SPARQL ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL]].''<br />
I'm working on an Anki extension for LL, but I'm having a little trouble writing the sparql query. In short, I want to be able to get the city and country for a recording in LL. However, when I query P14, I get the link to the item instead of 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'} or 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'}. Instead I hope to get city:"" and country "France" for the first query city:"Paris" and country:"France" for the second one. Any ideas? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Languageseeker}} thanks for your work on a Anki extension. Could you post here the query you have now? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{u|Pamputt}} . The query that I'm using is a very lightly modified version of the bot query. <br />
<br />
:: <syntaxhighlight lang="sparql">ENDPOINT = "https://lingualibre.org/bigdata/namespace/wdq/sparql"<br />
API = "https://lingualibre.org/api.php"<br />
BASEQUERY = """<br />
SELECT DISTINCT<br />
?record ?file ?transcription ?recorded<br />
?languageIso ?languageQid ?languageWMCode<br />
?residence ?learningPlace ?languageLevel<br />
?speaker ?linkeduser<br />
WHERE {<br />
?record prop:P2 entity:Q2 .<br />
?record prop:P3 ?file .<br />
?record prop:P4 ?language .<br />
?record prop:P5 ?speaker .<br />
?record prop:P6 ?recorded .<br />
?record prop:P7 ?transcription .<br />
?language prop:P13 ?languageIso.<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel .<br />
?speaker prop:P11 ?linkeduser .<br />
?speaker prop:P14 ?residence .<br />
?speaker llp:P4 ?speakerLanguagesStatement .<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llv:P4 ?speakerLanguages .<br />
OPTIONAL { ?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel . }<br />
FILTER( ?speakerLanguages = ?language) .<br />
SERVICE wikibase:label {<br />
bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" .<br />
}<br />
#filters<br />
}"""</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
:: Currently, I'm running it with filters = "" because it seems that a query for a single term takes around 70s, while fetching a single transcription takes about 145 seconds. My plan is to group the results by transcription and then write that into a json file to avoid the costly query. Basically, I need the speaker name, the term, their country, their city, the ISO code of the language, date created, and the filename, languageLevel. <br />
<br />
:: For example, for the term un chien, the json would look like:<br />
:: { "term": {"un chien": {"speaker": "Julien Baley", "language": "fra", "city": "", "country": "France", "recorded": "2020-11-27", "filename": "LL-Q150_(fra)-Julien_Baley-un_chien.wav", "languageLevel": "Q15"}}} [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Download datasets]].''<br />
I wrote a [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader python program] that downloads all the files created by one user. For video files, it downloads the full webm. For audio files, the default is to download the wave file. However, for audio files, you can optionally choose either mp3 or ogg files. Currently, the configuration requires a minor modification of lluad.py. If there is strong demand, I will write a command line parser for it. Please report any bugs or errors on the github page. Feature requests are welcome. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Languageseeker}} please add your tool to [[Help:Download datasets]]. It lists several tools with different specifics, your tool is welcome and may help some Python users as well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:41, 22 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Garbage Values in prop:P14 ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]] and [[Help:SPARQL_for_maintenance#.E2.9C.85_Speakers_.E2.86.92_Undefined_place_of_residence]].''<br />
As part of my Anki project, I queried the entire LL database and I'm trying to parse the output of ?speaker prop:P14 ?residence. I've noticed that there are a number of garbage values in provided for P14, such as Q1, Q2, Q103962887, Q6099648, Strasbourg. There seem to be three cases. <br />
# Users wishing to enter an extremely vague place such as Earth or the Universe. These should be set to None.<br />
# Users accidentally linking to a disambiguation page. These require correction. <br />
# Users not even entering a Wikidata item which require manual correction.<br />
<br />
To solve the root of the problem, I propose that P14 should be restricted to only Wikidata items that exist and have P17. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 21:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Languageseeker}} it's a good find. If you still have that SPARQL query under hand please add it into [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]]. Yes, it's something we should clean up i think. There may be some few case where the speaker dont want to share its location but in 95% of cases i think we can go ahead, correct or ask them to correct it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:39, 26 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:I noticed that when creating a new speaker, place of learning is optional. Not cool. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:32, 27 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|YUG}} For the life of me, I can't get the federated query to work, but I have a separate query to get the location and country labels from wikidata. These are the problematic ones. Note, that Q20 is on the list because Q20 "Norway" is missing P17<br />
<br />
* ['MichaelSchoenitzer', None]<br />
* ['D.Muralidharan', None]<br />
* ['Kaderousse', None]<br />
* ['Krokus', None]<br />
* ['विदुला टोकेकर', 'Q103962887']<br />
* ['DoctorandusManhattan', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Justforoc', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Student16 de', None]<br />
* ['Didierwiki', 'Q6099648']<br />
* ['Sarah2149', None]<br />
* ['DomesticFrog', 'Q1']<br />
* ['Drkanchi', None]<br />
* ['Satdeep Gill', None]<br />
* ['Iwan.Aucamp', 'Q20']<br />
* ['Skimel', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Abeɣzan', None]<br />
* ['Gibraltar Rocks', None]<br />
* ['Bomdapatrick', None]<br />
* ['Ibtissam RAHMOUNI', None]<br />
* ['Trabelsiismail', None]<br />
* ['Ziko', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Youcefelallali', None]<br />
* ['Foxxipeter7', None]<br />
* ['Celevra089', None]<br />
* ['Bodhisattwa', None]<br />
* ['Atudu', None]<br />
* ['KageyamaxNishinoya', 'Q30915818']<br />
* ['Darkdadaah', None]<br />
* ['JayashreeVI', None]<br />
* ['रश्मीमहेश', 'Q103962887']<br />
* ['गीता गोविंद नेने', 'Q103893785']<br />
* ['Awangba Mangang', None]<br />
* ['Abigaljo', None]<br />
* ['FaelDaug', 'Q29423162']<br />
[[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:16, 30 May 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=764645LinguaLibre:Chat room2022-05-30T02:15:39Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Garbage Values in prop:P14 */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
{{Lang-CR}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
{{LL:Chat room/FAQ}}<br />
__TOC__<br />
<!-- **** DO NOT EDIT CONTENT ABOVE **** --><br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publish on Wikimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just tested, but my records are not published on Commons. My tests: on Firefox, then on Chrome, with 50, then with 1 expression (s), with license CC3.0-BY-SA and CC1.0. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 06:51, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[[File:LiLi April 2021 - Publish on Wikimedia Commons.png|thumb|Problème de publication sur Wikimedia Commons]]<br />
:[[phab:T281636]] —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 07:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Usually I have the same with the first two recordings in a session. Then I can upload them again at the end. Try again with more recordings, and using "retry filed upload" button. [[User:Poemat|Poemat]] ([[User talk:Poemat|talk]]) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: Yup, I had this bug many times. (I say "had" because I don't remember having encountered it after the fire incident.) Just don't give up and it should be published eventually. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::(As of 3 May 2021 and as I checked, I'm not aware of any code changes ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/commits/master history]) which may have of affected this. Seb35 made some other code change this same day.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
I add a user who has the same problem: {{u|Le Commissaire}}. —[[User:Eihel-LiLi|Eihel-LiLi]] ([[User talk:Eihel-LiLi|talk]]) 15:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Bonjour {{ping|Seb35}}, Faudrait voir avec {{u|Le Commissaire}} si le problème persiste aussi (avant de clore le ticket Phab. Sincères salutations. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 10:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::J’ai mis un message à Le Commissaire sur sa page de discussion.<br />
::::::Le problème que vous avez eu était spécifique à votre compte, c’est peut-être arrivé à d’autres personnes mais ça semble assez rare. Aussi, à partir du moment où un utilisateur a réussi à faire un envoi vers Commons, alors c’est un problème différent du vôtre ([[:phabricator:T275957|celui-ci, qui ressemble mais l’erreur est intermittente]]). Plus globalement, il faudrait que le message d’erreur soit explicite plutôt que d’aller à chercher dans la console du navigateur, je vais ouvrir un ticket Phabricator en ce sens. [[User:Seb35|Seb35]] ([[User talk:Seb35|talk]]) 10:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exclusion lists ==<br />
If anyone uses the regularly updated [[user:Olafbot|Olafbot's]] lists of wanted words ([[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]], etc.), and spotted an item that should be removed without recording, you can use the brand new exclusion lists to remove it. For example on the list [[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]] there was the word "abandonar", which apparently doesn't belong to the contemporary French corpus. Having added it on the exclusion list (here: [[user:Olafbot/exclusion list/Fra]]) the bot knows this item should never appear in French lists it maintains, and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries&diff=619214&oldid=606068 removes it] during the next update. <br />
<br />
Each "Lemmas without audio" list ({{Olafbot-wikt}}) has a corresponding exclusion list ({{Olafbot-exclusion}}). I hope it will help.<br />
<br />
Normally I would add a link to the exclusion list in a description of each lemmas list, but unfortunately, Lingua Libre engine doesn't allow adding any kind of comments or descriptions to lists, so this ad is the only way to spread a word about the new functionality. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}} Thank you so much for this useful new function! Indeed, the Record Wizard does not yet understand comments, categories nor templates on List pages, but this will be considered for future updates. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 18:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ajout d'une nouvelle langue ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour !<br />
<br />
Je souhaite ajouter la langue Q3196953 mais en suivant la [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Help:Add_a_new_language/fr procédure], je ne vois pas LinguaImporter. Quelqu'un peut-il me dire pourquoi?<br />
<br />
Cdt,<br />
BamLifa<br />
: {{ping|BamLifa}} c'est parce que tu n'es pas administrateur. Je viens d'importer le {{Q|646152}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, merci beaucoup pour cette précision. Si cette option n'est réservée qu'aux admins, pourquoi en parler dans la doc sans cette précision ? En plus, vue la multitude des langues que nous avons qui n'existent pas encore chez Lingua libre, ne pensez-vous pas que vous devriez simplifier cette tâche ? J'ai encore une autre langue à ajouter, le Bira (bila). [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 12:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|BamLifa}} c'est indiqué sur cette page (c'est même le titre de la section (Outil pour les administrateurs)). Je ne me rappelle pas pourquoi c'est réservé aux admins mais ça limite au moins les vandales qui voudraient importer des choses qui ne sont pas des langues. Bref, j'ai importé le {{Q|656403}} et le {{Q|656404}}. Si ce ne sont pas les bonnes langues, peux-tu me donner le code ISO 639-3 correspondant (ou au moins l'identifiant Wikidata) ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Merci beaucoup. [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 05:34, 22 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lists still don't work properly ==<br />
<br />
{{Ping|WikiLucas00}} {{Ping|Poslovitch}} It's better than [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Lists_stopped_working|before]], but still, sometimes the Record Wizard hangs when a list is chosen.<br />
Then I have to reload the page, and try again. Usually the second or the third time of trying the same list, it starts to work.<br />
Probably a race condition. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}}It also happens to me sometimes, but I think that it could be related to the button for removing words you already recorded. When you load a list of words you never recorded (typically Olafbot's lists), ticking the button seems to kill the loading. Best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 10:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you. Indeed, with this switch unchecked everything seems to work. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 16:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liste des mots à prononcer ==<br />
<br />
Salut ! Existe-t-il une page où des mots peuvent être ajoutés pour qu'un bon samaritain puisse parler ? [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 11:30, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|Vivaelcelta}}, les listes sont faites pour cela. Vous pouvez [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Create_your_own_lists|créer votre propre liste]] qui pourra ensuite être enregistrée par n'importe qui. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci {{u|Pamputt}}. — [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 22:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Projet Outils pour la patrouille ==<br />
:''See [[LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol assistance tool prototyping project]].''<br />
{{LangSwitch<br />
|fr=Salut,<br />
<br />
cette semaine commence un projet menés par des étudiants des formations IARF-RODECO de l’Université Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier concernant le prototypage d’outils de patrouille. Je suis, assisté par Adélaïde Calais, le superviseur de ce projet. Les étudiants sont en informatique avec une spécialisation en intelligence artificielle. L’idée est de leur faire prototyper (voire développer) des outils pour aider la patrouille de Lingua Libre en détectant automatiquement toutes sortes de problèmes. Nous avons déjà identifier quelques problèmes : clics, grésillements, bruits parasites et mauvaises prononciations (libellés et enregistrements pas raccord).<br />
<br />
Et nous avons besoin de la communauté sur deux points : <br />
# y a-t-il d’autres problèmes auxquels vous pensez ?<br />
# nous avons besoin, pour que les étudiants puissent travailler, d’enregistrements avec défauts. Si vous les avez réenregistrés, c’est pas grave, Commons a un historique. N’hésitez pas à nous communiquer les enregistrements qui ont ou avaient des défauts !<br />
<br />
Enfin, j’ai créé une page de projet accessible [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|ici]] (page traduite).<br />
<br />
(Si certain·es peuvent traduire ce message en anglais, c’est super cool.)<br />
<br />
À+,<br />
|en=Hi,<br />
<br />
This week, a project lead by student of University Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier is starting. It will be about the prototyping of patrolling tools. I supervise this project, assisted by Adélaïde Calais. The students study computer science with a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. The aim is to have them prototyping (or even developing) tools to help Lingua Libre's patrol, by automatically detecting any kind of mistake/error related to the files. We already identified a few types of mistakes: clicks, crackles, pops and labelling issues (wrong label/wrong language).<br />
<br />
We need the community on two points : <br />
# are there other problems you could think of? <br />
# we need some recordings having issues, in order for the students to be able to work. If you already recorded them again, it is not a big deal, Commons has a file history. Don't hesitate to provide us the files that have or had problems.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I created a project page, available [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|here]].<br />
<br />
See you,}}<br />
[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 09:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], Translated page —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 19:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], [[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde]], could you specify the dates for this project ? <br />
::Also, were your point 1 and two answered by the community somewhere ? (If not I could give it a try) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug}} Hi, I updated the project page with the dates. And I didn’t get any answers to my questions. [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 11:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rashidun Caliphate ==<br />
<br />
Hello {{ping|Zinou2go}},<br />
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q13955_(ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة_الراشدة.wav LL-Q13955 (ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة الراشدة.wav] is problematic (currently {{Q|Q204439}} on LiLi): it contains several cuts (clicks). I proposed the file for deletion in Commons. The recordings seem to be working better, could you record Rashidun Caliphate again? I didn't check the other records, but they are likely to have "clicks" as well. Also, can an admin delete this item on LiLi, please? Cordially. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Eihel}} Please do not nominate files for deletion before asking for the speaker to record it again and waiting a while for their answer. Also, these recordings will come useful for the team currently working on the audio issues of Lingua Libre, so we'd better not delete them (I thought you read my messages on Discord about this). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{Ping|WikiLucas00}}, J'ai enlevé la suppression sur Commons. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Code of Conduct ==<br />
Hi everyone, I just noticed again MediaWiki's [[:mw:Code of Conduct]] (2015) and Wikimedia Foundation's [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02). Back in 2015, 0x010C included the first one as a condition to contribute to [https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard RecordWizard's codebase]. As far as I know, Lili.org and its community, so far, [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Code+of+conduct has no Code of Conduct]. We may be ''implicitely'' binded by it or by some Wikimedia France's Code of Conduct, but it would be cleaner to ''explicitly'' adopt one and display it here, in written. We could therefor do the following :<br />
# Short round to confirm with have nothing in place so far.<br />
# Vote for 2 months to adopt the most recent [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02)<br />
# Copy the text into [[LinguaLibre:Universal Code of Conduct]].<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Pre-discussion ===<br />
Do we already have a Code of Conduct binding LinguaLibre ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Vote ===<br />
''Are you for or against adopting the [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021) as a code of conduct for LinguaLibre's community ?''<br><br />
''Possible votes : {{tl|support}} • {{tl|weak support}} • {{tl|weak oppose}} • {{tl|oppose}}''<br />
* {{Support}} (proposer) — better to be explicit, have a framework in place, just to be clear to all on where we stand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre website should be more appealing to Language Learners ==<br />
:''See also [https://forvo.com Forvo.com].''<br />
It would be useful if LinguaLibre follows the example of Forvo to increase the number of language learners interested in the Project.<br />
<br />
Forvo.com has a way of displaying the information that engage users and makes it very easy to find pronunciations. <br />
<br />
For example, if someone wants to learn how to pronounce "Honoré de Balzac" in French, it would be faster to find the audio on Forvo than on LinguaLibre. Also, Forvo displays the data in a way more appealing to language learners:<br />
* https://forvo.com/search/Honoré_de_Balzac/<br />
* https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Honoré+de+Balzac<br />
'''Would it be possible to improve the way that data is displayed on LinguaLibre to make it more appealing to Language Learners ?'''<br />
''In such way, the number of active users recording audios would increase significantly.'' -- [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]]<br />
:Some people previously reported such "issue". There is a [[phab:T252319|ticket]] on Phabricator to keep this in mind. However, the priority is currently given to develop patrol tools for Lingua Libre and we do not expect to see major improvements related to the audio brosing in the coming months (at least if we have no more external developers). I think it is like this because Lingua Libre has been though so that it helps for recording, not for listening; the second is let to the other Wikimedia projects, mainly Wiktionaries et Wikidata. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::YES ! There are oral discussions and proposals in this direction, but LinguaLibre being a volunteers-based team, we are moving slowly. Forvo is a for-profit entity, it locks the copyright and resale of recordings made on its platform to the speaker-creator and to themselves, to then sell those recordings with a profit. They therefor have money and swift decision-making to sustain their UI/UX efforts. We are shorter on those sides. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Sound Library's forking and hacking ===<br />
'''On the [[LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library|Sound Library]] side''', I was able to duplicate/fork it, which allows to start hack its CSS. Copy those codes into your own namespace :<br />
* [[User:Yug/common.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/common.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]] → [[Special:MyPage/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]]<br />
In those codes, you then have to replace all occurrences of "Yug" by your username, and it's should work. You can start hacking toward a more elegant interface. Note: the JS copy is in your *personal* JS and has a "stop" condition so the various JS instances won't fight. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allow recording only in the user's Native Language to avoid passing "mispronunciations" to Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
I started a discussion on the German Wiktionary because some words on LinguaLibre are not available on the DeWikt. The German Community told me that LinguaLibre adds words into Commons, but the Bot only accepts audios from “few” trusted users using a filter. <br />
<br />
The English and German Wiktionaries use a bot called "DerbethBot" to add audios from Commons. However, the English Wiktionary community asked to block Lingua Libre's recordings because there were non-native speakers recording audios and the Bot had no way to differentiate them from Native speakers. After the audios were introduced in the English Wiktionary they had to forbid adding audios from LinguaLibre:<br />
<br />
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2020/July#Labeling_non-native_audio<br />
<br />
I believe that it is necessary to avoid giving “mispronunciations” to Wictionaries. That is similar to vandalism on a Wiktionary if the reader doesn't know that it is hearing a bad pronunciation and believes that it is “native speaker”:<br />
<br />
''Some suggestions:''<br />
1) Would it be possible to name the audios files to specify if the speaker is a native or not? For example, if a French speaker records the word "maison" it could be named '''"maison-fr-native.ogg"''' . If a language learner records the same word : '''"maison-fr-learner.ogg"'''<br />
<br />
2) A radical way to address the issue would be to only allow to record in one's native language. Of course, users could change it, but strong warnings could be added and always remind people to record only their native language. Forvo seems to take this approach.<br />
<br />
It might be valuable for Linguists to have recordings of non-native speakers to study their accent features in an L-2 Language. However, in my humble opinion the pronunciations added to Wiktionary should be only native speakers and bots should have a way to differentiate them.<br />
<br />
Link to the German Wiktionary discussion about LinguaLibre: <br />
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Teestube#:~:text=von%20technischer%20seite%20gibt%20es%20keinem%20problem%2C%20zwei%20bots%20auf%20de.wiktionary%20arbeiten%20zu%20lassen.<br />
:Hi, this depends on the Wikitionary policy, and it could be different from a language to another one. Anyway, it is already possible to select only recordings done by native speaker. To do that, the speaker has to fill the {{P|16}} property ith the value {{Q|15}} (see for example {{Q|466}}). Other values for {{P|16}} are given [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q5|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sursilvan ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
[[Special:Contributions/Franz.Roos.1955|User:Franz.Roos.1955]] made 2 recordings in [[:en:wp:Sursilvan]] : rauna ([[Q689785]]), tschitta ([[Q689786]]). Sursilvan has no iso code. Do we have a procedure for such languages ? (I forgot if the case already shown up). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:There is not issue. It simply uses the Wikidata identifier when there is no ISO code. Se for example {{Q|1186}}. To record in such languages, we have to create an item for this language/dialect on Lingua Libre, and this is already done for {{Q|74905}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Thank Pamputt for the clarification. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[commons:commons:structured data]] ==<br />
<br />
I've been very pleased with LL's tooling, that does so much of the process of uploading to Commons, sensible naming, description-writing, and categorisation for me; however, I have an idea for an additional step LL could automate. This is in Commons' no-longer-so-new structured data section, which manifests (among other ways) as a tab on the file page.<br />
<br />
As an example of what could be automatically added to a file's datastore, there is a property called 'audio transcription' which serves a similar role to Commons' TimedText subtitle functionality (silly example: [[commons:TimedText:051226-kakapo-billbooming.ogg.en.srt]]) but for shorter clips -- in other words, seemingly designed with applications like LinguaLibre in mind.<br />
<br />
Since these are of the so-called 'monolingual text' datatype, the source language can be specified (or where not part of the main set of languages Wikimedia uses, the special code 'mis' is used and 'language of work or name' used as a qualifier) at the same time as the actual text that is being spoken, which LL has access to since the audio file started out as a text prompt!<br />
<br />
What think y'all? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 04:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Arlo Barnes}} there is [[phab:T239272|Phabricator ticket]] about this topic. Currently there are not yet all properties on Wikidata to fit all Lingua Libre properties. For example, I [[d:Wikidata:Property proposal/language level|proposed to create]] a property for the language level of a speaker but it did not get enough support. SO I guess, we should first list all properties we would like to add on SDC. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [Feature Request] Play next sound automatically while checking recordings ==<br />
<br />
After recording sounds it is important to check them to verify their quality. However, it is very tiring to record 380 words and afterwards have to click 380 times on the ''“Next button”'' while checking them.<br />
<br />
'''After recording, would it be possible to add a button to "Play next sound automatically" ?''' [https://i.imgur.com/XwC34pj.png Screenshot Here] [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, it is already [[phab:T218372|tracked on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "How to use Lingua Libre for your language learning" ==<br />
<br />
I recently found a "new" way to benefit from the sounds on Lingua Libre. I would suggest that it could be advertised on the Lingua Libre main website and on the Wikipedia in French/English:<br />
* [[:en:wp:GoldenDict|GoldenDict]] is a FOSS Dictionary application very valuable for language learners. <br />
<br />
A way to benefit from Lingua Libre recordings is to download the datasets, unzip them and "load" the sounds on GoldenDict (as Sound Directories. [https://i.imgur.com/9avJDgS.png Screenshot here]). In such a way, users have easily an offline "Pronunciation Dictionary". It is very easy to do. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/axRHruk.png screenshot] of how it looks to GoldenDict the French word "fuir". Another example [https://i.imgur.com/Rq0nQCt.png here].<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre sounds can be used with GoldenDict OFFLINE. That is a huge advantage in developing countries, where language learners often do not have reliable internet connection.<br />
<br />
''It would be valuable to create a description on the Lingua Libre website about'' '''"How to use Lingua Libre sounds for your language learning"''' .<br />
<br />
There it would be possible to describe how to use the audios offline with GoldenDict, etc. If more methods are developed (Anki add-on), better GUI, Android App, etc. they could be explained there.--[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:1) '''Reuse of datasets :''' Yes ! Dataset download and reuse must be showcasted and strengthened. I think a "Reuses gallery" page could be created, with screenshot and minimal how-to for GoldenDict, Anki and others.<br />
:2) '''Anki:''' You are the 4th or 5th contributor to rise the need for an Anki add-on. We need to do something on this side, yes. It's more than 1~2 days work and too big for a volunteer work, so we need to apply for a grant. I'am looking in and mapping our options at the moment ({{tl|Grants table}}). At one point we have to jump in and design a project, yes.<br />
:3) For '''e-learning app''', a 5k€ project was designed by myself a year ago. The funding by local regional government was declined, but it could easily be refreshed.<br />
:We have to redesign some projects and apply in early 2022. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::The core question is the Human Resources. <br />
::'''*Daily routines*''' keeps WikiLucas, Pamputt, Poslovitch and myself –aka the community-side contributors— busy maintaining the place, welcoming and guiding new users, cleaning pages, etc. We are now quite smooth, successful and stable on this side.<br />
::To '''*push forward*''' on developments, UI, tools, e-learning, communication, grants, we each have one or two side projects in mind, pushing those <u>''slowly''</u>. But as always in FOSS projects the task ahead is much larger and we could achieve much more with more human resources.<br />
::'''Overall''', it's possible we are at a new turning right now. As things are stable, with road maps available, '''we just need 1 to 3 new coordinators and communicants contributors to tip the dynamic into forward-offensive mode''', with communication therefor new arrivals, new speakers, new devs, new coordinators and really push forward with new events/workshop, funds and SMART features. <br />
::@[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]], I'am currently writing down structuring "community how to" to ease new contributor's jumping in (see [[LinguaLibre:Roles]], [[LinguaLibre:Workshops]], {{tl|Grants table}}). You are doing a nice push on communication (It's FOSS) and with your questions you are mapping out Lili's needs. Pamputt and WikiLucas are following our progresses. All this is pretty interesting. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would like to work on the "Public Relations" Department of LinguaLibre! - EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) : '''Any PR campaign would fail miserably if there is no search function.''' I explain the reasons at the end of this section: [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]]<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 23:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Sound good :) Your outreach to YouTubers and popular FOSS blogs is spot on.<br />
::I am back from a wikibreak, I am cleaning up some last pages, then since the maintenance side is stable I would like to focus my energy on projects design –recording rare languages, technology, PR campaign– and associated grant requests to secure funding and the actual realization of those visions. We can collaborate. You lead on the PR : design your campaign. I can review and help it to fit some Grants formats. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I created a new wiki page in the "events" section of a "PR Campaign for 2022". Please visit [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]] and participate in the discussion with new ideas. EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) I will NOT contribute anymore to a PR campaign. the reasons are explained as comment on the relevant section [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 21:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating a LL catgory for a dialect ==<br />
<br />
Would be grateful if someone could tell me if it's possible to create a LL category for a dialect?<br />
<br />
We're working in Konkani, which has its own (but small) Wikipedia at http://gom.wikipedia.org Under Konkani, there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. <br />
<br />
Would like to create a category for Saxtti (the Salcete dialect of Konkani). This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. Also, it would allow the recordings of many others which might have already been done in Konkani as a how.<br />
<br />
Question: How do we create space for the dialects of a language? <br />
<br />
Thanks very much, in advance! --[[User:Fredericknoronha|Fredericknoronha]] ([[User talk:Fredericknoronha|talk]]) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello {{ping|Fredericknoronha}} and welcome to Lingua Libre. I imported {{Q|700683}} (gom) as it was not on Lingua Libre yet. On Lingua Libre, dialects are treated the same way as languages. You can create an element for your dialect on Wikidata (example for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35359 auvergnat dialect]) and tell us once it is ready, so that we can import it on Lingua Libre with an admin tool. You can also directly create an element for your dialect on Lingua Libre, following the steps described at [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Add_a_new_language|Help:Add a new language]] and taking example of {{Q|1186}}. Don't hesitate to ping an admin if you have any questions.<br />
:All the best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::''« there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. […] This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. »''<br />
::If the writing are similar but only the pronunciation differs depending on where the speaker comes from, it looks like different accents.<br />
::Recordings are specific to a word, a language and a speaker. Which means me recording in French the word "bonjour" will be one audio file on Lili. WikiLucas can record in French the same word "bonjour", it will create an other audio file on Lili. My recording(s), since i come from the South West, will carry the southern accent. Recordings by WikiLucas, who lives 700km East of me, will cary the Lyon area accent. Lingualibre will store 2 recordings, one per user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Hello {{u|Fredericknoronha}}, I have imported {{Q|701734}} so that you can now record words in that dialect. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Feedback about Lingua Libre by Professor Carol Genetti, PhD ==<br />
<br />
'''Dear Members of Lingua Libre,<br />
'''<br />
I am pleased to share a message from Professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Genetti Carol Genetti], a linguist and leading expert in endangered languages. Professor Genetti is author of one of the best books in the field of Linguistics called "How Languages Work". Her vast knowledge and experience are extremely valuable and after reviewing Lingua Libre she said:<br />
<br />
''Thank you for contacting me and letting me know about this initiative. It is an interesting idea. I especially like the multilingual menus -- very helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Are you aware of [https://www.endangeredlanguages.com/ this website], hosted by the University of Hawaii (and, I believe, funded by Google). So one thing that occurs to me is the proliferation of such sites. How will people in an endangered-language community find out about their options, and then make an informed choice about which of these online resources will be best over time for their communities? Should such efforts cross-reference each other?''<br />
<br />
''My second thought has to do with longevity. It takes a significant commitment to support a site like this over time. The challenge is having someone who can keep such sites funded, working, organized, relevant, and engaging users over time. How will you make sure that the data will be available in 10, 50, 150 years? Maybe you get that automatically by being associated with Wikipedia. If so, state that. Also, there should be a clear statement of how such data might be used, and by whom, so speakers know that if they record a wordlist, someone might use if for some purpose without their permission (is that right?).<br />
''<br />
''I'm sorry to have to bring a down-to-earth message to the inspiration and passion for endangered languages that has clearly fueled this work, but having seen other initiatives stumble in this way, I wanted to be sure that you are thinking about this. Speakers will be entrusting you with such valuable pieces of their lives and their cultures. How will you safeguard this over time? Let people know.<br />
''<br />
''Those issues aside, here are a couple of other comments:''<br />
<br />
* There should be a statement targeted for speakers of endangered languages - why would they want to do this? What is the value for them and their communities? What will happen to the recordings? etc.''<br />
* Will you provide speakers with suggestions for what vocabulary to record, e.g. greetings, colors, verb forms?''<br />
* It would be helpful if it was clear from the large list of languages which ones have recordings. Maybe put those in a different color font?''<br />
* It would be helpful to include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language. Otherwise, someone's grandkids coming to this in 30 years will not know what the words mean.''<br />
* Do you want to move beyond single words to a piece of connected discourse, such as a short poem or story, a song, or the reading of some common text (such as a sentence from the UN Declaration for Linguistic Rights)?''<br />
* Should there be a means to flag inappropriate content?''<br />
<br />
''I hope that you find this helpful. And I'm so glad you liked my book! It is lovely to hear that people have found it helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Carol Genetti''<br />
''Vice Provost for Graduate and Postdoctoral Programs''<br />
''NYU Abu Dhabi''<br />
''(she/her/hers)''<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, this is some interesting feedback.<br />
:* "What will happen to the recordings?": Our homepage lacks such important information. We should plan a redesign for 2022 (inspired by the homepage of [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/ Common Voice]?) so that we finally have a homepage that properly explains what Lingua Libre is and can do.<br />
:* "Suggestions of things to record?": This already exists. They're called Lists. We have some pending improvements on that matter (easier to find and contribute to, etc.)<br />
:* "Show which languages have recordings": The datasets page could help, but I guess it would be interesting to put that on an easy-to-find page (again, like [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/languages Common Voice's languages page]?)<br />
:* "Include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language": we only support "transcription" for now.<br />
:** How could we even "link" the recordings to translations? (Lexemes? Plain text?)<br />
:** Who would have to do that? (the locutor? a dedicated team of contributors?)<br />
:** Where would it be done? (in the RecordWizard?)<br />
:** -> That's an interesting thing to think about, but might be slightly out of scope right now<br />
:* "Sentences, stories, songs...?": Yes, indeed. The Record Wizard is already able to do that (with some config tweaks that have to be done by the locutor), but it would be great to streamline this further. Dedicated UI, ability to record an audiobook (or Wikipedia, Wikisource, Wikinews article) as a mixture of sentences that can be stored locally before being all merged together into one audio file sent to Commons, ability for multiple contributors to work on the same book/article... That's something we should also discuss with the [https://librivox.org/ Librivox] folks: they use Audacity so far, but they might be interested in a tool that's better suited to their needs.<br />
:* "flag inappropriate content?": My insight is focused on technical stuff. This sounds more like some editorial guidelines that would have to be debated by the community.<br />
:* "'''longevity'''?": Should Lingua Libre vanish tomorrow, the audio recordings are not lost. They're all stored on Wikimedia Commons, and that makes them as "immortal" as files stored on hard disks, SSDs, CDs or magnetic bands and mirrored half a dozen times around the world can be. However, I can't say much about our Wikibase, which, at the current time, '''is the only place where all the recordings and locutor-related metadata is stored'''. That's a serious single point of failure. There are no dumps and therefore no mirrorring. We'll definitely have to discuss it with Wikimedia France and the Tech Team.<br />
:Hopefully my answers are clear and comprehensible. I'm pleased to have received feedback from Pr. Genetti. Now it's our turn to take matters in our hands! --[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to delete lists? ==<br />
:{{Done}} <br />
Hello, recently I completed some lists. Now everything is done and those lists are needless. Is there any possibility to delete lists? Greetings --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} hello, admins can delete those lists. The lists you created are [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?target=Onkel+Tomm&namespace=142&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions here]. Which ones should I delete ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Hello Yug, please delete all 8 lists, because they are all finally finished. Thanks. --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 13:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} We are clean ! thank for asking, it keeps the place clean :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Case study ==<br />
Hello all, I noticed a file upload which gather interesting use cases.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Item || Label || Speaker || Account || Filename || Category<br />
|-<br />
| [[Q709231]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q709231&oldid=689510 arch.]) || "Ingenieur" || [[Q674858]] 'fleur' || User:Beat_Ruest || [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] || [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest]]<br />
|-<br />
| — || Mispelling of "Ingénieur" || – || – || Carries the misspelling || Category page was not created, therefor virtually "lost" to Wikimedia Commons and [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
* Question 1: How do we handle mispelling ? I assume renaming ALL THREE of the [[Q709231]]'s label AND Property:P3 'recording' AND Wikimedia file [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] rename. Is that ok or will it break something ?<br />
* Question 2: Category should be automatically created. How do we go for this ? I assume a request on [[LinguaLibre:Bot]]<br />
* Question 3: What about the category by *speaker/voice* ([[Q709231]] 'fleur'), which curently doesn't exist, and which can have multiple speakers with the same name 'fleur' ?<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Question 1: it is a good start. I guess, we need to fix it both on Lingua Libre and on Wikimedia Commons<br />
: Question 2: you speak about categories on Wikimedia Commons? If so, I guess a bot can do it (Lingua Libre Bot or another one).<br />
: Question 3: actually the speaker is identified as "fleur (Beat Ruest)". Only one locutor of Beat Ruest can use the nickname "fleur".<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Q1, Q2 agree.<br />
::Q3 : {{ping|Pamputt}} check the categories on [[:commons:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} you mean the problem is [[:c:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] is categorized in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest" and not in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by fleur (Beat Ruest)" or similar name? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, we dont have categorization by '''speaker''' "Fleur (Beat Ruest)". Low importance, but could be a feature request. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gestion de doublons ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]'' (new, needs review!)<br />
<br />
Bonsoir !<br />
<br />
Il y a-t-il une gestion de doublons dans LL pour les mots d'une même langue ? [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 13:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]], si un même locuteur enregistre le même mot alors l'enregistrement précédent sera écrasé (un même locuteur ne peut enregistrer qu'une seule fois le même mot). En revanche, rien n'empêche l'enregistrement d'un même mot par plusieurs locuteurs et locutrices différentes, c'est même un des objectifs de Lingua Libre : mettre en lumière la diversité des prononciations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] : Comment sont alors gérés les homographes non homophones ? ^^ [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]] ([[User talk:Totodu74|talk]]) 00:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Bonjour [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], il est possible d'ajouter des indications entre parenthèses (cette information est stockée à l'aide de {{P|18}}). Voir par exemple {{Q|1685}} et {{Q|1686}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
:::@[[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], salut, la question des homographes est en partie résolue dans nos langues africaines qui sont essentiellement des langues à tons. --[[User:Rçag|Rçag]] ([[User talk:Rçag|talk]]) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Rçag, could you explain your solution a bit so we learn from it.<br />
:{{Ping|BamLifa|Rçag|Pamputt|Totodu74}} the page [[Help:Homographs]] is there to gather best practices. It's new, review and edits welcome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Comment changer de pseudonyme ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, sur les projets de Wikimedia, mon pseudonyme est Manjiro91 (et anciennement GamissimoYT), comment change-t-on de pseudonyme ?<br />
[[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|GamissimoYT}}. Lingua Libre utilise le même pseudo que celui qui est en utilisation sur Wikimedia Commons. Donc si vous voulez utiliser le pesudonyme Manjiro91, déconnectez-vous de Lingua Libre, puis de Wikimedia Commons. Ensuite, connectez vous à Commons avec le pseudo Manjiro91 et enfin reconnectez vous à Lingua Libre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
{{Notif|Pamputt}} Mon pseudonyme Wikimedia Commons est Manjiro91 (anciennement GamissimoYT mais le changement de pseudonyme ne s'effectue pas sur LiLi. [[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|GamissimoYT}}, tu as bien fait les connexions/déconnexions dans l'ordre que j'ai indiqué ? Si tu es sûr que tu es connecté avec Manjiro91 sur Wikimedia Commons, alors tu peux essayer de te déconnecter de Lingua Libre et te reconnecter dans la foulée. Essayer de vider le cache du navigateur peut peut-être aidé aussi. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging of items about languages ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL]] and [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]].''<br />
Hi y'all,<br />
<br />
For the record, I just merge a couple of items about the same language:<br />
* {{Q|52071}} in {{Q|73}}<br />
* {{Q|139228}} in {{Q|183}}<br />
* {{Q|170137}} in {{Q|359}}<br />
* {{Q|683869}} in {{Q|418}}<br />
* {{Q|646169}} in {{Q|6714}}<br />
* {{Q|570518}} in {{Q|52069}}<br />
* {{Q|538624}} in {{Q|84030}}<br />
* {{Q|646173}} in {{Q|390314}}<br />
* {{Q|646161}} in {{Q|502754}}<br />
* {{Q|570510}} in {{Q|489393}}<br />
<br />
I detected them with this SPARQL query: <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql"><br />
SELECT ?idWD (COUNT(?item) AS ?compte) (GROUP_CONCAT(?item) AS ?items) WHERE {<br />
?item prop:P2 entity:Q4 ; prop:P12 ?idWD .<br />
}<br />
GROUP BY ?idWD<br />
HAVING ( ?compte > 1 )<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
Ping {{ping|WikiLucas00}} it seems you are responsible for some of them...<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks VIGNERON for finding them and cleaning it. Now what to do with recording items that use the doublon language item (for example with [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q52071|Duala]]). I think we must modify {{P|4}} for all recording items so that languages are not counted twice and also to clean up the database (there are also transcription problems for items listed in the Duala example). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you {{ping|VIGNERON}} for pointing these out. As you can see, most of them were not created manually but using the tool (the pages wheighted circa 4kB, with labels in many languages). It seems that the Lingua Importer tool has (or had?) a problem, but I could not reproduce it (trying to import languages that are already in LL wikibase).<br/> During last summer's hackathon we talked a bit about languages in our wikibase, but I can't remember why we need to have language elements in our Wikibase, and not just use the existing base of WikiData 🤔 — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MediaWiki customizations of LinguaLibre ==<br />
<br />
Love the MediaWiki skin of LinguaLibre and I am curious of skin and customizations made. Who are the authors? (can not see credits) --[[User:Zblace|Zblace]] ([[User talk:Zblace|talk]]) 10:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The skin is known as BlueLL. The source code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL github]. It has been developed by Wikimedia France in 2020. That's said, it is true there is no licence and credits on Github. I will ask to {{u|Adélaïde Calais WMFr}} if she remember anything so that I can the missing informations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Zblace}}, this skin's author is [[User:0x010C]], and its opensource. Can be reused freely. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:45, 22 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New property: translation ==<br />
Hello, I've created {{P|38}} to be used in case there is no writing in the recording language but instead a translation in the vehicular language. See for example what I did [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q212431&type=revision&diff=743039&oldid=191330 here] and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q58994&type=revision&diff=743044&oldid=580313 there]. Do you agree with that? Any comment? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:It's a good idea! Many users tend to add a translation as they find it important for other people to have. It will also be handy for cases like your second example, where we only have the translation but not the transcription of the source language: we will be able to query the base to see all audios of a language that have a translation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::I am thinking about a way to populate automatically this property via the Record Wizard. Currently, it seems that the Record Wizard populates {{P|18}} when something is written between brackets (see {{Q|1685}} for example but I have not checked recently). So, if we modify the Record Wizard code, it is possible to recognize this is a translation in another language and so to populate {{P|38}}. But I would like to be sure to propose the best way to do it before asking for such development. The idea is to be managed automatically (or at least not completely manually). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 00:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone ! <br />
<br/>This week, Wikimedia France is preparing its budget for the fiscal year to come : July 2022 to June 2023. If there are things you would like to see done or to do with our help on Lingua Libre, please share it on this page : https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection <br />
<br/>Have a great week-end ! --[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 17:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
: {{u|marreromarco}} Thank you for your suggestions. However, I have some reservations about "Add function to "Request" a Pronunciation to Native Speakers" at this current stage for two reasons. First, this will require quite a bit of moderation to correct requests for grammar and spelling (e.g. HASBAND) as well as remove terrible requests. This will place a large burden on a few users and can easily lead to questionable decisions by moderators. Second, Forvo is flooded with requests that are either overly specific (e.g. "He came back from abyss and won the tie.") and, therefore, likely benefit only one user. IMHO, Rdrg109 proposal to focus on providing pronunciations for entries on the various wiktionaries is a better approach to building up the LL at this point. It will provide a solid foundation for users to find any word in LL. It might be a better time to open up LL to general requests once this project is completed and the community has grown. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 15:49, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to get the city country label in SPARQL ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL]].''<br />
I'm working on an Anki extension for LL, but I'm having a little trouble writing the sparql query. In short, I want to be able to get the city and country for a recording in LL. However, when I query P14, I get the link to the item instead of 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'} or 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'}. Instead I hope to get city:"" and country "France" for the first query city:"Paris" and country:"France" for the second one. Any ideas? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Languageseeker}} thanks for your work on a Anki extension. Could you post here the query you have now? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{u|Pamputt}} . The query that I'm using is a very lightly modified version of the bot query. <br />
<br />
:: <syntaxhighlight lang="sparql">ENDPOINT = "https://lingualibre.org/bigdata/namespace/wdq/sparql"<br />
API = "https://lingualibre.org/api.php"<br />
BASEQUERY = """<br />
SELECT DISTINCT<br />
?record ?file ?transcription ?recorded<br />
?languageIso ?languageQid ?languageWMCode<br />
?residence ?learningPlace ?languageLevel<br />
?speaker ?linkeduser<br />
WHERE {<br />
?record prop:P2 entity:Q2 .<br />
?record prop:P3 ?file .<br />
?record prop:P4 ?language .<br />
?record prop:P5 ?speaker .<br />
?record prop:P6 ?recorded .<br />
?record prop:P7 ?transcription .<br />
?language prop:P13 ?languageIso.<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel .<br />
?speaker prop:P11 ?linkeduser .<br />
?speaker prop:P14 ?residence .<br />
?speaker llp:P4 ?speakerLanguagesStatement .<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llv:P4 ?speakerLanguages .<br />
OPTIONAL { ?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel . }<br />
FILTER( ?speakerLanguages = ?language) .<br />
SERVICE wikibase:label {<br />
bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" .<br />
}<br />
#filters<br />
}"""</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
:: Currently, I'm running it with filters = "" because it seems that a query for a single term takes around 70s, while fetching a single transcription takes about 145 seconds. My plan is to group the results by transcription and then write that into a json file to avoid the costly query. Basically, I need the speaker name, the term, their country, their city, the ISO code of the language, date created, and the filename, languageLevel. <br />
<br />
:: For example, for the term un chien, the json would look like:<br />
:: { "term": {"un chien": {"speaker": "Julien Baley", "language": "fra", "city": "", "country": "France", "recorded": "2020-11-27", "filename": "LL-Q150_(fra)-Julien_Baley-un_chien.wav", "languageLevel": "Q15"}}} [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Download datasets]].''<br />
I wrote a [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader python program] that downloads all the files created by one user. For video files, it downloads the full webm. For audio files, the default is to download the wave file. However, for audio files, you can optionally choose either mp3 or ogg files. Currently, the configuration requires a minor modification of lluad.py. If there is strong demand, I will write a command line parser for it. Please report any bugs or errors on the github page. Feature requests are welcome. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Languageseeker}} please add your tool to [[Help:Download datasets]]. It lists several tools with different specifics, your tool is welcome and may help some Python users as well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:41, 22 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Garbage Values in prop:P14 ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]] and [[Help:SPARQL_for_maintenance#.E2.9C.85_Speakers_.E2.86.92_Undefined_place_of_residence]].''<br />
As part of my Anki project, I queried the entire LL database and I'm trying to parse the output of ?speaker prop:P14 ?residence. I've noticed that there are a number of garbage values in provided for P14, such as Q1, Q2, Q103962887, Q6099648, Strasbourg. There seem to be three cases. <br />
# Users wishing to enter an extremely vague place such as Earth or the Universe. These should be set to None.<br />
# Users accidentally linking to a disambiguation page. These require correction. <br />
# Users not even entering a Wikidata item which require manual correction.<br />
<br />
To solve the root of the problem, I propose that P14 should be restricted to only Wikidata items that exist and have P17. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 21:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Languageseeker}} it's a good find. If you still have that SPARQL query under hand please add it into [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]]. Yes, it's something we should clean up i think. There may be some few case where the speaker dont want to share its location but in 95% of cases i think we can go ahead, correct or ask them to correct it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:39, 26 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:I noticed that when creating a new speaker, place of learning is optional. Not cool. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:32, 27 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:: {ping|YUG} For the life of me, I can't get the federated query to work, but I have a separate query to get the location and country labels from wikidata. These are the problematic ones. Note, that Q20 is on the list because Q20 "Norway" is missing P17<br />
<br />
* ['MichaelSchoenitzer', None]<br />
* ['D.Muralidharan', None]<br />
* ['Kaderousse', None]<br />
* ['Krokus', None]<br />
* ['विदुला टोकेकर', 'Q103962887']<br />
* ['DoctorandusManhattan', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Justforoc', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Student16 de', None]<br />
* ['Didierwiki', 'Q6099648']<br />
* ['Sarah2149', None]<br />
* ['DomesticFrog', 'Q1']<br />
* ['Drkanchi', None]<br />
* ['Satdeep Gill', None]<br />
* ['Iwan.Aucamp', 'Q20']<br />
* ['Skimel', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Abeɣzan', None]<br />
* ['Gibraltar Rocks', None]<br />
* ['Bomdapatrick', None]<br />
* ['Ibtissam RAHMOUNI', None]<br />
* ['Trabelsiismail', None]<br />
* ['Ziko', 'Q2']<br />
* ['Youcefelallali', None]<br />
* ['Foxxipeter7', None]<br />
* ['Celevra089', None]<br />
* ['Bodhisattwa', None]<br />
* ['Atudu', None]<br />
* ['KageyamaxNishinoya', 'Q30915818']<br />
* ['Darkdadaah', None]<br />
* ['JayashreeVI', None]<br />
* ['रश्मीमहेश', 'Q103962887']<br />
* ['गीता गोविंद नेने', 'Q103893785']<br />
* ['Awangba Mangang', None]<br />
* ['Abigaljo', None]<br />
* ['FaelDaug', 'Q29423162']<br />
[[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:15, 30 May 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=763865LinguaLibre:Chat room2022-05-25T21:22:08Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Garbage Values in prop:P14 */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
{{Lang-CR}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
{{LL:Chat room/FAQ}}<br />
__TOC__<br />
<!-- **** DO NOT EDIT CONTENT ABOVE **** --><br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publish on Wikimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just tested, but my records are not published on Commons. My tests: on Firefox, then on Chrome, with 50, then with 1 expression (s), with license CC3.0-BY-SA and CC1.0. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 06:51, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[[File:LiLi April 2021 - Publish on Wikimedia Commons.png|thumb|Problème de publication sur Wikimedia Commons]]<br />
:[[phab:T281636]] —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 07:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Usually I have the same with the first two recordings in a session. Then I can upload them again at the end. Try again with more recordings, and using "retry filed upload" button. [[User:Poemat|Poemat]] ([[User talk:Poemat|talk]]) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: Yup, I had this bug many times. (I say "had" because I don't remember having encountered it after the fire incident.) Just don't give up and it should be published eventually. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::(As of 3 May 2021 and as I checked, I'm not aware of any code changes ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/commits/master history]) which may have of affected this. Seb35 made some other code change this same day.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
I add a user who has the same problem: {{u|Le Commissaire}}. —[[User:Eihel-LiLi|Eihel-LiLi]] ([[User talk:Eihel-LiLi|talk]]) 15:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Bonjour {{ping|Seb35}}, Faudrait voir avec {{u|Le Commissaire}} si le problème persiste aussi (avant de clore le ticket Phab. Sincères salutations. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 10:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::J’ai mis un message à Le Commissaire sur sa page de discussion.<br />
::::::Le problème que vous avez eu était spécifique à votre compte, c’est peut-être arrivé à d’autres personnes mais ça semble assez rare. Aussi, à partir du moment où un utilisateur a réussi à faire un envoi vers Commons, alors c’est un problème différent du vôtre ([[:phabricator:T275957|celui-ci, qui ressemble mais l’erreur est intermittente]]). Plus globalement, il faudrait que le message d’erreur soit explicite plutôt que d’aller à chercher dans la console du navigateur, je vais ouvrir un ticket Phabricator en ce sens. [[User:Seb35|Seb35]] ([[User talk:Seb35|talk]]) 10:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exclusion lists ==<br />
If anyone uses the regularly updated [[user:Olafbot|Olafbot's]] lists of wanted words ([[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]], etc.), and spotted an item that should be removed without recording, you can use the brand new exclusion lists to remove it. For example on the list [[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]] there was the word "abandonar", which apparently doesn't belong to the contemporary French corpus. Having added it on the exclusion list (here: [[user:Olafbot/exclusion list/Fra]]) the bot knows this item should never appear in French lists it maintains, and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries&diff=619214&oldid=606068 removes it] during the next update. <br />
<br />
Each "Lemmas without audio" list ({{Olafbot-wikt}}) has a corresponding exclusion list ({{Olafbot-exclusion}}). I hope it will help.<br />
<br />
Normally I would add a link to the exclusion list in a description of each lemmas list, but unfortunately, Lingua Libre engine doesn't allow adding any kind of comments or descriptions to lists, so this ad is the only way to spread a word about the new functionality. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}} Thank you so much for this useful new function! Indeed, the Record Wizard does not yet understand comments, categories nor templates on List pages, but this will be considered for future updates. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 18:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ajout d'une nouvelle langue ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour !<br />
<br />
Je souhaite ajouter la langue Q3196953 mais en suivant la [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Help:Add_a_new_language/fr procédure], je ne vois pas LinguaImporter. Quelqu'un peut-il me dire pourquoi?<br />
<br />
Cdt,<br />
BamLifa<br />
: {{ping|BamLifa}} c'est parce que tu n'es pas administrateur. Je viens d'importer le {{Q|646152}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, merci beaucoup pour cette précision. Si cette option n'est réservée qu'aux admins, pourquoi en parler dans la doc sans cette précision ? En plus, vue la multitude des langues que nous avons qui n'existent pas encore chez Lingua libre, ne pensez-vous pas que vous devriez simplifier cette tâche ? J'ai encore une autre langue à ajouter, le Bira (bila). [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 12:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|BamLifa}} c'est indiqué sur cette page (c'est même le titre de la section (Outil pour les administrateurs)). Je ne me rappelle pas pourquoi c'est réservé aux admins mais ça limite au moins les vandales qui voudraient importer des choses qui ne sont pas des langues. Bref, j'ai importé le {{Q|656403}} et le {{Q|656404}}. Si ce ne sont pas les bonnes langues, peux-tu me donner le code ISO 639-3 correspondant (ou au moins l'identifiant Wikidata) ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Merci beaucoup. [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 05:34, 22 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lists still don't work properly ==<br />
<br />
{{Ping|WikiLucas00}} {{Ping|Poslovitch}} It's better than [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Lists_stopped_working|before]], but still, sometimes the Record Wizard hangs when a list is chosen.<br />
Then I have to reload the page, and try again. Usually the second or the third time of trying the same list, it starts to work.<br />
Probably a race condition. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}}It also happens to me sometimes, but I think that it could be related to the button for removing words you already recorded. When you load a list of words you never recorded (typically Olafbot's lists), ticking the button seems to kill the loading. Best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 10:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you. Indeed, with this switch unchecked everything seems to work. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 16:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liste des mots à prononcer ==<br />
<br />
Salut ! Existe-t-il une page où des mots peuvent être ajoutés pour qu'un bon samaritain puisse parler ? [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 11:30, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|Vivaelcelta}}, les listes sont faites pour cela. Vous pouvez [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Create_your_own_lists|créer votre propre liste]] qui pourra ensuite être enregistrée par n'importe qui. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci {{u|Pamputt}}. — [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 22:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Projet Outils pour la patrouille ==<br />
:''See [[LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol assistance tool prototyping project]].''<br />
{{LangSwitch<br />
|fr=Salut,<br />
<br />
cette semaine commence un projet menés par des étudiants des formations IARF-RODECO de l’Université Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier concernant le prototypage d’outils de patrouille. Je suis, assisté par Adélaïde Calais, le superviseur de ce projet. Les étudiants sont en informatique avec une spécialisation en intelligence artificielle. L’idée est de leur faire prototyper (voire développer) des outils pour aider la patrouille de Lingua Libre en détectant automatiquement toutes sortes de problèmes. Nous avons déjà identifier quelques problèmes : clics, grésillements, bruits parasites et mauvaises prononciations (libellés et enregistrements pas raccord).<br />
<br />
Et nous avons besoin de la communauté sur deux points : <br />
# y a-t-il d’autres problèmes auxquels vous pensez ?<br />
# nous avons besoin, pour que les étudiants puissent travailler, d’enregistrements avec défauts. Si vous les avez réenregistrés, c’est pas grave, Commons a un historique. N’hésitez pas à nous communiquer les enregistrements qui ont ou avaient des défauts !<br />
<br />
Enfin, j’ai créé une page de projet accessible [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|ici]] (page traduite).<br />
<br />
(Si certain·es peuvent traduire ce message en anglais, c’est super cool.)<br />
<br />
À+,<br />
|en=Hi,<br />
<br />
This week, a project lead by student of University Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier is starting. It will be about the prototyping of patrolling tools. I supervise this project, assisted by Adélaïde Calais. The students study computer science with a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. The aim is to have them prototyping (or even developing) tools to help Lingua Libre's patrol, by automatically detecting any kind of mistake/error related to the files. We already identified a few types of mistakes: clicks, crackles, pops and labelling issues (wrong label/wrong language).<br />
<br />
We need the community on two points : <br />
# are there other problems you could think of? <br />
# we need some recordings having issues, in order for the students to be able to work. If you already recorded them again, it is not a big deal, Commons has a file history. Don't hesitate to provide us the files that have or had problems.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I created a project page, available [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|here]].<br />
<br />
See you,}}<br />
[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 09:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], Translated page —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 19:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], [[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde]], could you specify the dates for this project ? <br />
::Also, were your point 1 and two answered by the community somewhere ? (If not I could give it a try) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug}} Hi, I updated the project page with the dates. And I didn’t get any answers to my questions. [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 11:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rashidun Caliphate ==<br />
<br />
Hello {{ping|Zinou2go}},<br />
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q13955_(ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة_الراشدة.wav LL-Q13955 (ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة الراشدة.wav] is problematic (currently {{Q|Q204439}} on LiLi): it contains several cuts (clicks). I proposed the file for deletion in Commons. The recordings seem to be working better, could you record Rashidun Caliphate again? I didn't check the other records, but they are likely to have "clicks" as well. Also, can an admin delete this item on LiLi, please? Cordially. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Eihel}} Please do not nominate files for deletion before asking for the speaker to record it again and waiting a while for their answer. Also, these recordings will come useful for the team currently working on the audio issues of Lingua Libre, so we'd better not delete them (I thought you read my messages on Discord about this). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{Ping|WikiLucas00}}, J'ai enlevé la suppression sur Commons. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Code of Conduct ==<br />
Hi everyone, I just noticed again MediaWiki's [[:mw:Code of Conduct]] (2015) and Wikimedia Foundation's [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02). Back in 2015, 0x010C included the first one as a condition to contribute to [https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard RecordWizard's codebase]. As far as I know, Lili.org and its community, so far, [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Code+of+conduct has no Code of Conduct]. We may be ''implicitely'' binded by it or by some Wikimedia France's Code of Conduct, but it would be cleaner to ''explicitly'' adopt one and display it here, in written. We could therefor do the following :<br />
# Short round to confirm with have nothing in place so far.<br />
# Vote for 2 months to adopt the most recent [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02)<br />
# Copy the text into [[LinguaLibre:Universal Code of Conduct]].<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Pre-discussion ===<br />
Do we already have a Code of Conduct binding LinguaLibre ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Vote ===<br />
''Are you for or against adopting the [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021) as a code of conduct for LinguaLibre's community ?''<br><br />
''Possible votes : {{tl|support}} • {{tl|weak support}} • {{tl|weak oppose}} • {{tl|oppose}}''<br />
* {{Support}} (proposer) — better to be explicit, have a framework in place, just to be clear to all on where we stand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre website should be more appealing to Language Learners ==<br />
:''See also [https://forvo.com Forvo.com].''<br />
It would be useful if LinguaLibre follows the example of Forvo to increase the number of language learners interested in the Project.<br />
<br />
Forvo.com has a way of displaying the information that engage users and makes it very easy to find pronunciations. <br />
<br />
For example, if someone wants to learn how to pronounce "Honoré de Balzac" in French, it would be faster to find the audio on Forvo than on LinguaLibre. Also, Forvo displays the data in a way more appealing to language learners:<br />
* https://forvo.com/search/Honoré_de_Balzac/<br />
* https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Honoré+de+Balzac<br />
'''Would it be possible to improve the way that data is displayed on LinguaLibre to make it more appealing to Language Learners ?'''<br />
''In such way, the number of active users recording audios would increase significantly.'' -- [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]]<br />
:Some people previously reported such "issue". There is a [[phab:T252319|ticket]] on Phabricator to keep this in mind. However, the priority is currently given to develop patrol tools for Lingua Libre and we do not expect to see major improvements related to the audio brosing in the coming months (at least if we have no more external developers). I think it is like this because Lingua Libre has been though so that it helps for recording, not for listening; the second is let to the other Wikimedia projects, mainly Wiktionaries et Wikidata. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::YES ! There are oral discussions and proposals in this direction, but LinguaLibre being a volunteers-based team, we are moving slowly. Forvo is a for-profit entity, it locks the copyright and resale of recordings made on its platform to the speaker-creator and to themselves, to then sell those recordings with a profit. They therefor have money and swift decision-making to sustain their UI/UX efforts. We are shorter on those sides. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Sound Library's forking and hacking ===<br />
'''On the [[LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library|Sound Library]] side''', I was able to duplicate/fork it, which allows to start hack its CSS. Copy those codes into your own namespace :<br />
* [[User:Yug/common.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/common.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]] → [[Special:MyPage/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]]<br />
In those codes, you then have to replace all occurrences of "Yug" by your username, and it's should work. You can start hacking toward a more elegant interface. Note: the JS copy is in your *personal* JS and has a "stop" condition so the various JS instances won't fight. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allow recording only in the user's Native Language to avoid passing "mispronunciations" to Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
I started a discussion on the German Wiktionary because some words on LinguaLibre are not available on the DeWikt. The German Community told me that LinguaLibre adds words into Commons, but the Bot only accepts audios from “few” trusted users using a filter. <br />
<br />
The English and German Wiktionaries use a bot called "DerbethBot" to add audios from Commons. However, the English Wiktionary community asked to block Lingua Libre's recordings because there were non-native speakers recording audios and the Bot had no way to differentiate them from Native speakers. After the audios were introduced in the English Wiktionary they had to forbid adding audios from LinguaLibre:<br />
<br />
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2020/July#Labeling_non-native_audio<br />
<br />
I believe that it is necessary to avoid giving “mispronunciations” to Wictionaries. That is similar to vandalism on a Wiktionary if the reader doesn't know that it is hearing a bad pronunciation and believes that it is “native speaker”:<br />
<br />
''Some suggestions:''<br />
1) Would it be possible to name the audios files to specify if the speaker is a native or not? For example, if a French speaker records the word "maison" it could be named '''"maison-fr-native.ogg"''' . If a language learner records the same word : '''"maison-fr-learner.ogg"'''<br />
<br />
2) A radical way to address the issue would be to only allow to record in one's native language. Of course, users could change it, but strong warnings could be added and always remind people to record only their native language. Forvo seems to take this approach.<br />
<br />
It might be valuable for Linguists to have recordings of non-native speakers to study their accent features in an L-2 Language. However, in my humble opinion the pronunciations added to Wiktionary should be only native speakers and bots should have a way to differentiate them.<br />
<br />
Link to the German Wiktionary discussion about LinguaLibre: <br />
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Teestube#:~:text=von%20technischer%20seite%20gibt%20es%20keinem%20problem%2C%20zwei%20bots%20auf%20de.wiktionary%20arbeiten%20zu%20lassen.<br />
:Hi, this depends on the Wikitionary policy, and it could be different from a language to another one. Anyway, it is already possible to select only recordings done by native speaker. To do that, the speaker has to fill the {{P|16}} property ith the value {{Q|15}} (see for example {{Q|466}}). Other values for {{P|16}} are given [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q5|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sursilvan ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
[[Special:Contributions/Franz.Roos.1955|User:Franz.Roos.1955]] made 2 recordings in [[:en:wp:Sursilvan]] : rauna ([[Q689785]]), tschitta ([[Q689786]]). Sursilvan has no iso code. Do we have a procedure for such languages ? (I forgot if the case already shown up). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:There is not issue. It simply uses the Wikidata identifier when there is no ISO code. Se for example {{Q|1186}}. To record in such languages, we have to create an item for this language/dialect on Lingua Libre, and this is already done for {{Q|74905}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Thank Pamputt for the clarification. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[commons:commons:structured data]] ==<br />
<br />
I've been very pleased with LL's tooling, that does so much of the process of uploading to Commons, sensible naming, description-writing, and categorisation for me; however, I have an idea for an additional step LL could automate. This is in Commons' no-longer-so-new structured data section, which manifests (among other ways) as a tab on the file page.<br />
<br />
As an example of what could be automatically added to a file's datastore, there is a property called 'audio transcription' which serves a similar role to Commons' TimedText subtitle functionality (silly example: [[commons:TimedText:051226-kakapo-billbooming.ogg.en.srt]]) but for shorter clips -- in other words, seemingly designed with applications like LinguaLibre in mind.<br />
<br />
Since these are of the so-called 'monolingual text' datatype, the source language can be specified (or where not part of the main set of languages Wikimedia uses, the special code 'mis' is used and 'language of work or name' used as a qualifier) at the same time as the actual text that is being spoken, which LL has access to since the audio file started out as a text prompt!<br />
<br />
What think y'all? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 04:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Arlo Barnes}} there is [[phab:T239272|Phabricator ticket]] about this topic. Currently there are not yet all properties on Wikidata to fit all Lingua Libre properties. For example, I [[d:Wikidata:Property proposal/language level|proposed to create]] a property for the language level of a speaker but it did not get enough support. SO I guess, we should first list all properties we would like to add on SDC. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [Feature Request] Play next sound automatically while checking recordings ==<br />
<br />
After recording sounds it is important to check them to verify their quality. However, it is very tiring to record 380 words and afterwards have to click 380 times on the ''“Next button”'' while checking them.<br />
<br />
'''After recording, would it be possible to add a button to "Play next sound automatically" ?''' [https://i.imgur.com/XwC34pj.png Screenshot Here] [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, it is already [[phab:T218372|tracked on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "How to use Lingua Libre for your language learning" ==<br />
<br />
I recently found a "new" way to benefit from the sounds on Lingua Libre. I would suggest that it could be advertised on the Lingua Libre main website and on the Wikipedia in French/English:<br />
* [[:en:wp:GoldenDict|GoldenDict]] is a FOSS Dictionary application very valuable for language learners. <br />
<br />
A way to benefit from Lingua Libre recordings is to download the datasets, unzip them and "load" the sounds on GoldenDict (as Sound Directories. [https://i.imgur.com/9avJDgS.png Screenshot here]). In such a way, users have easily an offline "Pronunciation Dictionary". It is very easy to do. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/axRHruk.png screenshot] of how it looks to GoldenDict the French word "fuir". Another example [https://i.imgur.com/Rq0nQCt.png here].<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre sounds can be used with GoldenDict OFFLINE. That is a huge advantage in developing countries, where language learners often do not have reliable internet connection.<br />
<br />
''It would be valuable to create a description on the Lingua Libre website about'' '''"How to use Lingua Libre sounds for your language learning"''' .<br />
<br />
There it would be possible to describe how to use the audios offline with GoldenDict, etc. If more methods are developed (Anki add-on), better GUI, Android App, etc. they could be explained there.--[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:1) '''Reuse of datasets :''' Yes ! Dataset download and reuse must be showcasted and strengthened. I think a "Reuses gallery" page could be created, with screenshot and minimal how-to for GoldenDict, Anki and others.<br />
:2) '''Anki:''' You are the 4th or 5th contributor to rise the need for an Anki add-on. We need to do something on this side, yes. It's more than 1~2 days work and too big for a volunteer work, so we need to apply for a grant. I'am looking in and mapping our options at the moment ({{tl|Grants table}}). At one point we have to jump in and design a project, yes.<br />
:3) For '''e-learning app''', a 5k€ project was designed by myself a year ago. The funding by local regional government was declined, but it could easily be refreshed.<br />
:We have to redesign some projects and apply in early 2022. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::The core question is the Human Resources. <br />
::'''*Daily routines*''' keeps WikiLucas, Pamputt, Poslovitch and myself –aka the community-side contributors— busy maintaining the place, welcoming and guiding new users, cleaning pages, etc. We are now quite smooth, successful and stable on this side.<br />
::To '''*push forward*''' on developments, UI, tools, e-learning, communication, grants, we each have one or two side projects in mind, pushing those <u>''slowly''</u>. But as always in FOSS projects the task ahead is much larger and we could achieve much more with more human resources.<br />
::'''Overall''', it's possible we are at a new turning right now. As things are stable, with road maps available, '''we just need 1 to 3 new coordinators and communicants contributors to tip the dynamic into forward-offensive mode''', with communication therefor new arrivals, new speakers, new devs, new coordinators and really push forward with new events/workshop, funds and SMART features. <br />
::@[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]], I'am currently writing down structuring "community how to" to ease new contributor's jumping in (see [[LinguaLibre:Roles]], [[LinguaLibre:Workshops]], {{tl|Grants table}}). You are doing a nice push on communication (It's FOSS) and with your questions you are mapping out Lili's needs. Pamputt and WikiLucas are following our progresses. All this is pretty interesting. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would like to work on the "Public Relations" Department of LinguaLibre! - EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) : '''Any PR campaign would fail miserably if there is no search function.''' I explain the reasons at the end of this section: [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]]<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 23:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Sound good :) Your outreach to YouTubers and popular FOSS blogs is spot on.<br />
::I am back from a wikibreak, I am cleaning up some last pages, then since the maintenance side is stable I would like to focus my energy on projects design –recording rare languages, technology, PR campaign– and associated grant requests to secure funding and the actual realization of those visions. We can collaborate. You lead on the PR : design your campaign. I can review and help it to fit some Grants formats. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I created a new wiki page in the "events" section of a "PR Campaign for 2022". Please visit [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]] and participate in the discussion with new ideas. EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) I will NOT contribute anymore to a PR campaign. the reasons are explained as comment on the relevant section [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 21:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating a LL catgory for a dialect ==<br />
<br />
Would be grateful if someone could tell me if it's possible to create a LL category for a dialect?<br />
<br />
We're working in Konkani, which has its own (but small) Wikipedia at http://gom.wikipedia.org Under Konkani, there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. <br />
<br />
Would like to create a category for Saxtti (the Salcete dialect of Konkani). This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. Also, it would allow the recordings of many others which might have already been done in Konkani as a how.<br />
<br />
Question: How do we create space for the dialects of a language? <br />
<br />
Thanks very much, in advance! --[[User:Fredericknoronha|Fredericknoronha]] ([[User talk:Fredericknoronha|talk]]) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello {{ping|Fredericknoronha}} and welcome to Lingua Libre. I imported {{Q|700683}} (gom) as it was not on Lingua Libre yet. On Lingua Libre, dialects are treated the same way as languages. You can create an element for your dialect on Wikidata (example for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35359 auvergnat dialect]) and tell us once it is ready, so that we can import it on Lingua Libre with an admin tool. You can also directly create an element for your dialect on Lingua Libre, following the steps described at [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Add_a_new_language|Help:Add a new language]] and taking example of {{Q|1186}}. Don't hesitate to ping an admin if you have any questions.<br />
:All the best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::''« there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. […] This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. »''<br />
::If the writing are similar but only the pronunciation differs depending on where the speaker comes from, it looks like different accents.<br />
::Recordings are specific to a word, a language and a speaker. Which means me recording in French the word "bonjour" will be one audio file on Lili. WikiLucas can record in French the same word "bonjour", it will create an other audio file on Lili. My recording(s), since i come from the South West, will carry the southern accent. Recordings by WikiLucas, who lives 700km East of me, will cary the Lyon area accent. Lingualibre will store 2 recordings, one per user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Hello {{u|Fredericknoronha}}, I have imported {{Q|701734}} so that you can now record words in that dialect. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Feedback about Lingua Libre by Professor Carol Genetti, PhD ==<br />
<br />
'''Dear Members of Lingua Libre,<br />
'''<br />
I am pleased to share a message from Professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Genetti Carol Genetti], a linguist and leading expert in endangered languages. Professor Genetti is author of one of the best books in the field of Linguistics called "How Languages Work". Her vast knowledge and experience are extremely valuable and after reviewing Lingua Libre she said:<br />
<br />
''Thank you for contacting me and letting me know about this initiative. It is an interesting idea. I especially like the multilingual menus -- very helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Are you aware of [https://www.endangeredlanguages.com/ this website], hosted by the University of Hawaii (and, I believe, funded by Google). So one thing that occurs to me is the proliferation of such sites. How will people in an endangered-language community find out about their options, and then make an informed choice about which of these online resources will be best over time for their communities? Should such efforts cross-reference each other?''<br />
<br />
''My second thought has to do with longevity. It takes a significant commitment to support a site like this over time. The challenge is having someone who can keep such sites funded, working, organized, relevant, and engaging users over time. How will you make sure that the data will be available in 10, 50, 150 years? Maybe you get that automatically by being associated with Wikipedia. If so, state that. Also, there should be a clear statement of how such data might be used, and by whom, so speakers know that if they record a wordlist, someone might use if for some purpose without their permission (is that right?).<br />
''<br />
''I'm sorry to have to bring a down-to-earth message to the inspiration and passion for endangered languages that has clearly fueled this work, but having seen other initiatives stumble in this way, I wanted to be sure that you are thinking about this. Speakers will be entrusting you with such valuable pieces of their lives and their cultures. How will you safeguard this over time? Let people know.<br />
''<br />
''Those issues aside, here are a couple of other comments:''<br />
<br />
* There should be a statement targeted for speakers of endangered languages - why would they want to do this? What is the value for them and their communities? What will happen to the recordings? etc.''<br />
* Will you provide speakers with suggestions for what vocabulary to record, e.g. greetings, colors, verb forms?''<br />
* It would be helpful if it was clear from the large list of languages which ones have recordings. Maybe put those in a different color font?''<br />
* It would be helpful to include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language. Otherwise, someone's grandkids coming to this in 30 years will not know what the words mean.''<br />
* Do you want to move beyond single words to a piece of connected discourse, such as a short poem or story, a song, or the reading of some common text (such as a sentence from the UN Declaration for Linguistic Rights)?''<br />
* Should there be a means to flag inappropriate content?''<br />
<br />
''I hope that you find this helpful. And I'm so glad you liked my book! It is lovely to hear that people have found it helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Carol Genetti''<br />
''Vice Provost for Graduate and Postdoctoral Programs''<br />
''NYU Abu Dhabi''<br />
''(she/her/hers)''<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, this is some interesting feedback.<br />
:* "What will happen to the recordings?": Our homepage lacks such important information. We should plan a redesign for 2022 (inspired by the homepage of [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/ Common Voice]?) so that we finally have a homepage that properly explains what Lingua Libre is and can do.<br />
:* "Suggestions of things to record?": This already exists. They're called Lists. We have some pending improvements on that matter (easier to find and contribute to, etc.)<br />
:* "Show which languages have recordings": The datasets page could help, but I guess it would be interesting to put that on an easy-to-find page (again, like [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/languages Common Voice's languages page]?)<br />
:* "Include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language": we only support "transcription" for now.<br />
:** How could we even "link" the recordings to translations? (Lexemes? Plain text?)<br />
:** Who would have to do that? (the locutor? a dedicated team of contributors?)<br />
:** Where would it be done? (in the RecordWizard?)<br />
:** -> That's an interesting thing to think about, but might be slightly out of scope right now<br />
:* "Sentences, stories, songs...?": Yes, indeed. The Record Wizard is already able to do that (with some config tweaks that have to be done by the locutor), but it would be great to streamline this further. Dedicated UI, ability to record an audiobook (or Wikipedia, Wikisource, Wikinews article) as a mixture of sentences that can be stored locally before being all merged together into one audio file sent to Commons, ability for multiple contributors to work on the same book/article... That's something we should also discuss with the [https://librivox.org/ Librivox] folks: they use Audacity so far, but they might be interested in a tool that's better suited to their needs.<br />
:* "flag inappropriate content?": My insight is focused on technical stuff. This sounds more like some editorial guidelines that would have to be debated by the community.<br />
:* "'''longevity'''?": Should Lingua Libre vanish tomorrow, the audio recordings are not lost. They're all stored on Wikimedia Commons, and that makes them as "immortal" as files stored on hard disks, SSDs, CDs or magnetic bands and mirrored half a dozen times around the world can be. However, I can't say much about our Wikibase, which, at the current time, '''is the only place where all the recordings and locutor-related metadata is stored'''. That's a serious single point of failure. There are no dumps and therefore no mirrorring. We'll definitely have to discuss it with Wikimedia France and the Tech Team.<br />
:Hopefully my answers are clear and comprehensible. I'm pleased to have received feedback from Pr. Genetti. Now it's our turn to take matters in our hands! --[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to delete lists? ==<br />
:{{Done}} <br />
Hello, recently I completed some lists. Now everything is done and those lists are needless. Is there any possibility to delete lists? Greetings --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} hello, admins can delete those lists. The lists you created are [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?target=Onkel+Tomm&namespace=142&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions here]. Which ones should I delete ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Hello Yug, please delete all 8 lists, because they are all finally finished. Thanks. --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 13:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} We are clean ! thank for asking, it keeps the place clean :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Case study ==<br />
Hello all, I noticed a file upload which gather interesting use cases.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Item || Label || Speaker || Account || Filename || Category<br />
|-<br />
| [[Q709231]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q709231&oldid=689510 arch.]) || "Ingenieur" || [[Q674858]] 'fleur' || User:Beat_Ruest || [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] || [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest]]<br />
|-<br />
| — || Mispelling of "Ingénieur" || – || – || Carries the misspelling || Category page was not created, therefor virtually "lost" to Wikimedia Commons and [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
* Question 1: How do we handle mispelling ? I assume renaming ALL THREE of the [[Q709231]]'s label AND Property:P3 'recording' AND Wikimedia file [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] rename. Is that ok or will it break something ?<br />
* Question 2: Category should be automatically created. How do we go for this ? I assume a request on [[LinguaLibre:Bot]]<br />
* Question 3: What about the category by *speaker/voice* ([[Q709231]] 'fleur'), which curently doesn't exist, and which can have multiple speakers with the same name 'fleur' ?<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Question 1: it is a good start. I guess, we need to fix it both on Lingua Libre and on Wikimedia Commons<br />
: Question 2: you speak about categories on Wikimedia Commons? If so, I guess a bot can do it (Lingua Libre Bot or another one).<br />
: Question 3: actually the speaker is identified as "fleur (Beat Ruest)". Only one locutor of Beat Ruest can use the nickname "fleur".<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Q1, Q2 agree.<br />
::Q3 : {{ping|Pamputt}} check the categories on [[:commons:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} you mean the problem is [[:c:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] is categorized in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest" and not in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by fleur (Beat Ruest)" or similar name? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, we dont have categorization by '''speaker''' "Fleur (Beat Ruest)". Low importance, but could be a feature request. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gestion de doublons ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]'' (new, needs review!)<br />
<br />
Bonsoir !<br />
<br />
Il y a-t-il une gestion de doublons dans LL pour les mots d'une même langue ? [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 13:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]], si un même locuteur enregistre le même mot alors l'enregistrement précédent sera écrasé (un même locuteur ne peut enregistrer qu'une seule fois le même mot). En revanche, rien n'empêche l'enregistrement d'un même mot par plusieurs locuteurs et locutrices différentes, c'est même un des objectifs de Lingua Libre : mettre en lumière la diversité des prononciations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] : Comment sont alors gérés les homographes non homophones ? ^^ [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]] ([[User talk:Totodu74|talk]]) 00:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Bonjour [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], il est possible d'ajouter des indications entre parenthèses (cette information est stockée à l'aide de {{P|18}}). Voir par exemple {{Q|1685}} et {{Q|1686}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
:::@[[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], salut, la question des homographes est en partie résolue dans nos langues africaines qui sont essentiellement des langues à tons. --[[User:Rçag|Rçag]] ([[User talk:Rçag|talk]]) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Rçag, could you explain your solution a bit so we learn from it.<br />
:{{Ping|BamLifa|Rçag|Pamputt|Totodu74}} the page [[Help:Homographs]] is there to gather best practices. It's new, review and edits welcome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Comment changer de pseudonyme ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, sur les projets de Wikimedia, mon pseudonyme est Manjiro91 (et anciennement GamissimoYT), comment change-t-on de pseudonyme ?<br />
[[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|GamissimoYT}}. Lingua Libre utilise le même pseudo que celui qui est en utilisation sur Wikimedia Commons. Donc si vous voulez utiliser le pesudonyme Manjiro91, déconnectez-vous de Lingua Libre, puis de Wikimedia Commons. Ensuite, connectez vous à Commons avec le pseudo Manjiro91 et enfin reconnectez vous à Lingua Libre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
{{Notif|Pamputt}} Mon pseudonyme Wikimedia Commons est Manjiro91 (anciennement GamissimoYT mais le changement de pseudonyme ne s'effectue pas sur LiLi. [[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|GamissimoYT}}, tu as bien fait les connexions/déconnexions dans l'ordre que j'ai indiqué ? Si tu es sûr que tu es connecté avec Manjiro91 sur Wikimedia Commons, alors tu peux essayer de te déconnecter de Lingua Libre et te reconnecter dans la foulée. Essayer de vider le cache du navigateur peut peut-être aidé aussi. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging of items about languages ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL]] and [[Help:SPARQL for maintenance]].''<br />
Hi y'all,<br />
<br />
For the record, I just merge a couple of items about the same language:<br />
* {{Q|52071}} in {{Q|73}}<br />
* {{Q|139228}} in {{Q|183}}<br />
* {{Q|170137}} in {{Q|359}}<br />
* {{Q|683869}} in {{Q|418}}<br />
* {{Q|646169}} in {{Q|6714}}<br />
* {{Q|570518}} in {{Q|52069}}<br />
* {{Q|538624}} in {{Q|84030}}<br />
* {{Q|646173}} in {{Q|390314}}<br />
* {{Q|646161}} in {{Q|502754}}<br />
* {{Q|570510}} in {{Q|489393}}<br />
<br />
I detected them with this SPARQL query: <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql"><br />
SELECT ?idWD (COUNT(?item) AS ?compte) (GROUP_CONCAT(?item) AS ?items) WHERE {<br />
?item prop:P2 entity:Q4 ; prop:P12 ?idWD .<br />
}<br />
GROUP BY ?idWD<br />
HAVING ( ?compte > 1 )<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
Ping {{ping|WikiLucas00}} it seems you are responsible for some of them...<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks VIGNERON for finding them and cleaning it. Now what to do with recording items that use the doublon language item (for example with [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q52071|Duala]]). I think we must modify {{P|4}} for all recording items so that languages are not counted twice and also to clean up the database (there are also transcription problems for items listed in the Duala example). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you {{ping|VIGNERON}} for pointing these out. As you can see, most of them were not created manually but using the tool (the pages wheighted circa 4kB, with labels in many languages). It seems that the Lingua Importer tool has (or had?) a problem, but I could not reproduce it (trying to import languages that are already in LL wikibase).<br/> During last summer's hackathon we talked a bit about languages in our wikibase, but I can't remember why we need to have language elements in our Wikibase, and not just use the existing base of WikiData 🤔 — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MediaWiki customizations of LinguaLibre ==<br />
<br />
Love the MediaWiki skin of LinguaLibre and I am curious of skin and customizations made. Who are the authors? (can not see credits) --[[User:Zblace|Zblace]] ([[User talk:Zblace|talk]]) 10:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The skin is known as BlueLL. The source code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL github]. It has been developed by Wikimedia France in 2020. That's said, it is true there is no licence and credits on Github. I will ask to {{u|Adélaïde Calais WMFr}} if she remember anything so that I can the missing informations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Zblace}}, this skin's author is [[User:0x010C]], and its opensource. Can be reused freely. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:45, 22 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New property: translation ==<br />
Hello, I've created {{P|38}} to be used in case there is no writing in the recording language but instead a translation in the vehicular language. See for example what I did [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q212431&type=revision&diff=743039&oldid=191330 here] and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q58994&type=revision&diff=743044&oldid=580313 there]. Do you agree with that? Any comment? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:It's a good idea! Many users tend to add a translation as they find it important for other people to have. It will also be handy for cases like your second example, where we only have the translation but not the transcription of the source language: we will be able to query the base to see all audios of a language that have a translation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::I am thinking about a way to populate automatically this property via the Record Wizard. Currently, it seems that the Record Wizard populates {{P|18}} when something is written between brackets (see {{Q|1685}} for example but I have not checked recently). So, if we modify the Record Wizard code, it is possible to recognize this is a translation in another language and so to populate {{P|38}}. But I would like to be sure to propose the best way to do it before asking for such development. The idea is to be managed automatically (or at least not completely manually). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 00:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone ! <br />
<br/>This week, Wikimedia France is preparing its budget for the fiscal year to come : July 2022 to June 2023. If there are things you would like to see done or to do with our help on Lingua Libre, please share it on this page : https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection <br />
<br/>Have a great week-end ! --[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 17:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
: {{u|marreromarco}} Thank you for your suggestions. However, I have some reservations about "Add function to "Request" a Pronunciation to Native Speakers" at this current stage for two reasons. First, this will require quite a bit of moderation to correct requests for grammar and spelling (e.g. HASBAND) as well as remove terrible requests. This will place a large burden on a few users and can easily lead to questionable decisions by moderators. Second, Forvo is flooded with requests that are either overly specific (e.g. "He came back from abyss and won the tie.") and, therefore, likely benefit only one user. IMHO, Rdrg109 proposal to focus on providing pronunciations for entries on the various wiktionaries is a better approach to building up the LL at this point. It will provide a solid foundation for users to find any word in LL. It might be a better time to open up LL to general requests once this project is completed and the community has grown. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 15:49, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to get the city country label in SPARQL ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:SPARQL]].''<br />
I'm working on an Anki extension for LL, but I'm having a little trouble writing the sparql query. In short, I want to be able to get the city and country for a recording in LL. However, when I query P14, I get the link to the item instead of 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'} or 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'}. Instead I hope to get city:"" and country "France" for the first query city:"Paris" and country:"France" for the second one. Any ideas? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Languageseeker}} thanks for your work on a Anki extension. Could you post here the query you have now? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{u|Pamputt}} . The query that I'm using is a very lightly modified version of the bot query. <br />
<br />
:: <syntaxhighlight lang="sparql">ENDPOINT = "https://lingualibre.org/bigdata/namespace/wdq/sparql"<br />
API = "https://lingualibre.org/api.php"<br />
BASEQUERY = """<br />
SELECT DISTINCT<br />
?record ?file ?transcription ?recorded<br />
?languageIso ?languageQid ?languageWMCode<br />
?residence ?learningPlace ?languageLevel<br />
?speaker ?linkeduser<br />
WHERE {<br />
?record prop:P2 entity:Q2 .<br />
?record prop:P3 ?file .<br />
?record prop:P4 ?language .<br />
?record prop:P5 ?speaker .<br />
?record prop:P6 ?recorded .<br />
?record prop:P7 ?transcription .<br />
?language prop:P13 ?languageIso.<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel .<br />
?speaker prop:P11 ?linkeduser .<br />
?speaker prop:P14 ?residence .<br />
?speaker llp:P4 ?speakerLanguagesStatement .<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llv:P4 ?speakerLanguages .<br />
OPTIONAL { ?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel . }<br />
FILTER( ?speakerLanguages = ?language) .<br />
SERVICE wikibase:label {<br />
bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" .<br />
}<br />
#filters<br />
}"""</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
:: Currently, I'm running it with filters = "" because it seems that a query for a single term takes around 70s, while fetching a single transcription takes about 145 seconds. My plan is to group the results by transcription and then write that into a json file to avoid the costly query. Basically, I need the speaker name, the term, their country, their city, the ISO code of the language, date created, and the filename, languageLevel. <br />
<br />
:: For example, for the term un chien, the json would look like:<br />
:: { "term": {"un chien": {"speaker": "Julien Baley", "language": "fra", "city": "", "country": "France", "recorded": "2020-11-27", "filename": "LL-Q150_(fra)-Julien_Baley-un_chien.wav", "languageLevel": "Q15"}}} [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Download datasets]].''<br />
I wrote a [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader python program] that downloads all the files created by one user. For video files, it downloads the full webm. For audio files, the default is to download the wave file. However, for audio files, you can optionally choose either mp3 or ogg files. Currently, the configuration requires a minor modification of lluad.py. If there is strong demand, I will write a command line parser for it. Please report any bugs or errors on the github page. Feature requests are welcome. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Languageseeker}} please add your tool to [[Help:Download datasets]]. It lists several tools with different specifics, your tool is welcome and may help some Python users as well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 22:41, 22 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Garbage Values in prop:P14 ==<br />
<br />
As part of my Anki project, I queried the entire LL database and I'm trying to parse the output of ?speaker prop:P14 ?residence. I've noticed that there are a number of garbage values in provided for P14, such as Q1, Q2, Q103962887, Q6099648, Strasbourg. There seem to be three cases. 1) Users wishing to enter an extremely vague place such as Earth or the Universe. These should be set to None. 2) Users accidentally linking to a disambiguation page. These require correction. 3) Users not even entering a Wikidata item which require manual correction.<br />
<br />
To solve the root of the problem, I propose that P14 should be restricted to only Wikidata items that exist and have P17. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 21:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Help:Download_datasets&diff=763750Help:Download datasets2022-05-24T01:57:32Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Python (Languageseeker) */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#Subtitle:{{Help:Download_datasets/Header}}}}<br />
<languages/><br />
{| class="wikitable right" style="float:right;"<br />
! colspan=2| <translate><!--T:1--> Data size — 2022/02</translate><br />
|-<br />
| <translate><!--T:2--> Audios files</translate> || 800,000+<br />
|-<br />
| <translate><!--T:3--> Average size</translate> || 100kB<br />
|-<br />
| <translate><!--T:4--> Total size (est.)</translate> || 80GB <!--<br />
|-<br />
| <translate><!--T:5--> Safety factor</translate> || 5~10x<br />
|-<br />
! <translate><!--T:6--> Required disk space</translate> || 400~800GB --><br />
|}<br />
<br />
<translate><br />
== Download datasets via click == <!--T:7--><br />
<br />
<!--T:8--><br />
'''Download by language:'''</translate><br />
<br><br />
<translate><br />
<!--T:9--><br />
# Open https://lingualibre.org/datasets/<br />
# Find your language, naming convention is: <code>{qId}-{iso639-3}-{language_English_name}.zip</code><br />
# '''Click to download'''<br />
# On your device, unzip.<br />
<br />
<!--T:10--><br />
'''Post-processing'''</translate><br />
<br><translate><!--T:11--><br />
Refer to the relevant tutorials in [[#See also]] to mass rename, mass convert or mass denoise your downloaded audios.<br />
<br />
== Programmatic tools == <!--T:12--><br />
<br />
<!--T:13--><br />
The tools below first fetch from one or several Wikimedia Commons categories the list of audio files within them.<br />
Some of them allow to filter that list further to focus a single speaker, either by editing their code or by post-processing of the resulting .csv list of audio files. The listed targets are then downloaded at a speed of 500 to 15,000 per hours. Items already present locally and matching the latest Commons version are generally not re-downloaded.<br />
<br />
=== Find your target === <!--T:14--><br />
<br />
<!--T:15--><br />
Categories on Wikimedia Commons are organized as follow:<br />
* [[:Commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by user]] <br />
* [[:Commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation]] (by language)<br />
<br />
=== Python (current)=== <!--T:16--><br />
<br />
<!--T:17--><br />
Dependencies: Python 3.6+<br />
<br />
<!--T:18--><br />
'''Petscan''' and '''Wikiget''' allows to download about 15,000 audio files per hour.<br />
# '''Select your category :''' see [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation]] and [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by user|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by user]], then find your target category,<br />
# '''List target files with [https://petscan.wmflabs.org Petscan] :''' Given a target category on Commons, provides list of target files. [https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?&cb_labels_yes_l=1&cb_labels_no_l=1&edits%5Banons%5D=both&interface_language=en&edits%5Bflagged%5D=both&categories=Lingua%20Libre%20pronunciation-cmn&cb_labels_any_l=1&ns%5B0%5D=1&project=wikimedia&since_rev0=&search_max_results=500&edits%5Bbots%5D=both&ns%5B6%5D=1&language=commons&search_query= Example].<br />
# '''Download target files with [https://pypi.org/project/wikiget/ Wikiget] :''' downloads targets files.<br />
<br />
<!--T:19--><br />
Comments:<br />
* Successful on November 2021, with 730,000 audio downloaded in 20 hours. Sustained average speed : 10 downloads/sec.<br />
* Some delete files on Commons may cause Wikiget to return an error and pause. The script has to be resumed manually. Occurrence have been reported to be around 1/30,000 files. Fix is underway, support the request [https://github.com/clpo13/wikiget/issues/2 on github].<br />
* WikiGet therefore requires a volunteer to supervise the script while running.<br />
* As of December 2021, WikiGet does not support multi-thread downloads. Therefore, to increase the efficiency of the download process it is recommended to run the Python Script on 20-30 terminal windows simultaneously. Each terminal running WikiGet would consume an average of 20 Kb/s.<br />
* WikiGet requires an stable internet connection. Any disruption of 1 second would stop the download process and it requires manual restart of the Python Script.<br />
* [[m:Special:MyLanguage/PetScan|Manual for PetScan]]<br />
* Any question about downloading datasets can be made on the Discord Server of Lingua Libre : https://discord.gg/2WECKUHj<br />
<br />
=== NodeJS (soon) === <!--T:20--><br />
<br />
<!--T:21--><br />
Dependencies: git, nodejs, npm.<br />
<br />
<!--T:22--><br />
A '''WikiapiJS''' script allows to download target category's files, or a root category, its subcategories and contained files. Downloads about 1,400 audio files per hour.<br />
# WikiapiJS is the NodeJS / NPM package allowing scripted API calls upon Wikimedia Commons and LinguaLibre.<br />
# Specific script used to do a given task:<br />
#* Given a category, download all files : https://github.com/hugolpz/WikiapiJS-Eggs/blob/main/wiki-download-many.js<br />
#* Given a root category, list subcategories, download all files: https://github.com/hugolpz/WikiapiJS-Eggs/blob/main/wiki-download_by_root_category-many.js<br />
<br />
<!--T:23--><br />
Comments, as of December 2021:<br />
* Successful on December 2021, with 400 audios downloaded in 16 minutes. Sustained average speed : 0.4 downloads/sec.<br />
* Successfully process single category's files.<br />
* Successfully process root category and subcategories' files, generating ./isocode/ folders.<br />
* Scalability tests for resilience with high amounts requests >500 to 100,000 items is required.<br />
* Performance improvements are under consideration [https://github.com/kanasimi/wikiapi/issues/51#issuecomment-1002267855 on github].<br />
<br />
=== Python (slow) === <!--T:24--><br />
<br />
<!--T:25--><br />
Dependencies: python.<br />
<br />
<!--T:26--><br />
'''CommonsDownloadTool.py''' is a python script which formerly created datasets for LinguaLibre. It can be hacked and tinkered to your needs. To download all datasets as zips :<br />
* Download scripts : <br />
** [https://github.com/lingua-libre/operations/blob/master/create_datasets.sh create_datasets.sh] - creates CommonsDownloadTool's commands.<br />
** [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool/blob/master/commons_download_tool.py CommonsDownloadTool/commons_download_tool.py] - core script.<br />
* Read them a bit, move them where they fit the best on you computer so they require the minimum of editing<br />
* Edit as needed so the paths are correct, make it work.<br />
* Run <code>create_datasets.sh</code><br />
* Check if the number of files in the downloaded zips matches the number of files in [[:Commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation]]<br />
<br />
<!--T:27--><br />
Comments:<br />
* Last ran on February 2021, stopped due to slow speed.<br />
* This script is slow and has been phased out as Lingualibre grown too much.<br />
* The page may gain from some html and styling.<br />
* Proposals go on https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/lingua_libre/ or on the [[LinguaLibre:Chat room]].<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Python with UI (Sulochanaviji) ===<br />
:''Description to complete, see its [https://github.com/sulochanaviji/Wiki-bulk-downloader github repository].''<br />
[[:meta:User:Sulochanaviji|User:Sulochanaviji]] coded a Django/Python tool with a HTML/CSS user interface. See its [https://github.com/sulochanaviji/Wiki-bulk-downloader github repository].<br />
<br />
=== Python Script to Download a User's Pronunciations ===<br />
:This script downloads all the pronunciations added by a user into a folder by first querying the Lingua Libre database and then downloading the files from Commons. See its [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader github repository]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 01:57, 24 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Java (not tested) === <!--T:28--><br />
<br />
<!--T:29--><br />
Dependencies:<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="bash"><br />
sudo apt-get install default-jre # install Java environment<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
<!--T:30--><br />
Usage:<br />
* Open [https://github.com/MarcoFalke/wiki-java-tools/releases GitHub Wiki-java-tools project page].<br />
* Find the last <code>Imker</code> release.<br />
* Download Imker_vxx.xx.xx'''.zip''' archive<br />
* Extract the .zip file<br />
* Run as follow :<br />
** On Windows : start the .exe file.<br />
** On Ubuntu, open shell then : <br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="bash"><br />
$java -jar imker-cli.jar -o ./myFolder/ -c 'CategoryName' # Downloads all medias within Wikimedia Commons's category "CategoryName"<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
<!--T:31--><br />
Comments :<br />
* Not used yet by any LinguaLibre member. If you do, please share your experience of this tool.<br />
<br />
==== Manual ==== <!--T:32--><br />
</translate><br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="bash"><br />
Imker -- Wikimedia Commons batch downloading tool.<br />
<br />
Usage: java -jar imker-cli.jar [options]<br />
Options:<br />
--category, -c<br />
Use the specified Wiki category as download source.<br />
--domain, -d<br />
Wiki domain to fetch from<br />
Default: commons.wikimedia.org<br />
--file, -f<br />
Use the specified local file as download source.<br />
* --outfolder, -o<br />
The output folder.<br />
--page, -p<br />
Use the specified Wiki page as download source.<br />
<br />
The download source must be ONE of the following:<br />
↳ A Wiki category (Example: --category=&quot;Denver, Colorado&quot;)<br />
↳ A Wiki page (Example: --page=&quot;Sandboarding&quot;)<br />
↳ A local file (Example: --file=&quot;Documents/files.txt&quot;; One filename per line!)<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
<translate><br />
== See also == <!--T:33--><br />
<br />
<!--T:34--><br />
* [[<tvar|1>Special:MyLanguage/Help:Renaming</>|Help:Renaming]]<br />
* [[<tvar|2>Special:MyLanguage/Help:Converting audios</>|Help:Converting audios]]<br />
* [[<tvar|3>Special:MyLanguage/Help:Embed audio in HTML</>|Help:Embed audio in HTML]]<br />
* [[<tvar|3>:phab:T261519</>]]<br />
</translate><br />
{{Lingua_Libre_scripts}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Lingua Libre:Help]]</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection&diff=763361LinguaLibre:2022-2023 projection2022-05-21T17:59:40Z<p>Languageseeker: </p>
<hr />
<div>This week, Wikimedia France is establishing its budget for the period of July 2022 to June 2023.<br />
<br />
Please share here what you think we should get done this year on Lingua Libre. Feel free to add projects of yours that would require funding, as well as bugs and forseeable technical needs. Please remember to link phabricator tickets to the bugs and technical issues you raise. A maximum of 10 suggestions per person would be best.<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ Write your suggestions here<br />
|-<br />
! Username !! Project or problem !! Reason why this is important to accomplish or solve in 2022-2023 !! Approximate human time needed !! Estimated budget !! Would you like to be involved in this ?<br />
|-<br />
| Rdrg109<br />
|| Program for extracting sentences from any audio stream for their inclusion in Lingua Libre.<br />
|| Each extracted audio would correspond to a sentence. Each sentence could be added to lexemes as a [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P5831 "usage example"]. Having [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P5831 usage examples] with [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P443 pronunciation audios] makes Wikidata lexicographical data more useful. With SPARQL, we could then answer questions of the style: [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P5831 Usage examples] with [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P443 pronunciation audios] that were retrieved from interviews where the participant is a native speaker of that language. More information about this idea in [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Rdrg109/0/13#Program_for_extracting_sentences_from_any_audio_stream_for_their_inclusion_in_Lingua_Libre this page].<br />
|| 3 months<br />
|| Unknown (I have little experience with MediaWiki development so it will be more of a learning experience)<br />
|| Yes<br />
|-<br />
| Rdrg109<br />
|| Interface in Lingua Libre that focuses on adding pronunciation audio that is missing (forms and [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P5831 usage examples] that have zero pronunciation audios)<br />
|| There are lots of things in Wikidata lexicographical data that is missing [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P443 pronunciation audio]. As of 2022/03/18 22:24:21 UTC, there is only 1 [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P5831 usage example] that has a pronunciation audio. English has 129942 forms, but only 340 have pronunciation audios (i.e. ~0.0026% of English forms has pronunciation audio), the same situation happens with other languages. More statistics on this at [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Rdrg109/0/13#Interface_in_Lingua_Libre_that_focuses_on_adding_pronunciation_audio_that_is_missing this page].<br />
|| 2 months<br />
|| Unknown (I have little experience with MediaWiki development so it will be more of a learning experience)<br />
|| Yes<br />
|-<br />
| marreromarco || Improving the search function to make LinguaLibre useful for language learning || The current user interface makes it impossible to use Lingua Libre for language learning as a competition to Forvo. Without language learners interested in the project, very few persons would be interested in contributing since audios would be stored in a database with no practical usage. LinguaLibre could be a FOSS alternative to Forvo that allows people to listen recordings easily and quickly. It is important to solve this problem in 2022-2023 to attract more contributors and expand the number of recordings. Otherwise, only few "Wikimedians" would collaborate, and the database would never grow.|| 6 months || 30.000 Euros (cost of hiring a full time developer with experience) || Yes (with feedback/ideas). I am not a programmer, but I would like to provide as much feedback as possible and report bugs.<br />
|-<br />
| marreromarco || Public Relations (PR) Campaign || LinguaLibre is essentially unknown among language learners. In its current state, the project has no way to attract learners because it lacks an efficient “Search Functionality”. If LinguaLibre could hire a developer to improve the search function, afterwards it would be necessary to promote the website to attract language learners (and new contributors). An efficient way to promote the website is to write posts on blogs,social media, magazines, newspapers, create YouTube videos, etc. A PR Campaign is necessary in 2022-2023 to increase the number of active contributors and become a viable FOSS alternative to Forvo. || 6 months || 6.000 Euros (Cost of hiring an intern to work at WikimediaFrance Headquarters) || Yes (with feedback/ideas)<br />
|-<br />
| marreromarco || Anki Integration with LinguaLibre || An Anki Add-on would be helpful for language learners || 3 months || 15.000 Euros (depends on the number of hours that a developer would have to invest) || Yes (with feedback/ideas).<br />
|-<br />
| marreromarco || Add function to "Request" a Pronunciation to Native Speakers || It is very useful for language learners to request the specific word/phrase in which they have doubts about the Pronunciation. Forvo allows such function and users make very creative requests. It is also helpful specially for technical terms and proper names || 3 months || 15.000 Euros (depends on the number of hours that a developer would have to invest) || Yes (with feedback/ideas).<br />
|-<br />
| marreromarco || Establish a “Month of Voices” on Wikipedia || Propose to Wikimedia Headquarters the development of a "Month of Voices" in which LinguaLibre would be promoted on Wikipedia Articles in the Section of "Languages" at the left side of the Main Page. The idea was discussed previously: https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Events/Winter_2021-2022_Public_Relations_Campaign || 6 months || 6000 Euros (Payment of an Intern in charge of the PR Campaign) || Yes<br />
|-<br />
| Poslovitch || Improve the Datasets page || The Datasets index is unsightly and at best offputting for people wanting to re-use our recordings through the datasets. We could get some inspiration from [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/datasets CommonVoice's], especially regarding statistics for each dataset || 1 week || < 400 € (both if we rely on a pro or volunteer dev) || Yes (can actually do this)<br />
|-<br />
| 0x010C || New tools for our power-users || Lingua Libre laks a couple of tools to help experienced users to do a bunch of maintenance tasks:<br>- patrolling<br>- batch-editing metadatas<br>- batch importing records (like the one we had on LinguaLibre v1)<br>- ...<br>Those tools could be directly integrated as new special pages into the RecordWizard MediaWiki-extension. || ~3 months || 15000 € || Yes<br />
|-<br />
| 0x010C || Allow users to easily explore our fantastic audio-database || Since we launched the v2 of this website in july 2018, hardly everything has changed with a major exception: QueryViz, the extension used to display SPARQL queries inside wikipages. Now that Lingua Libre has almost 700,000 audio recordings in its database, it would be good to take the time to improve this extension to allow everyone to explore our dataset in an easy to use, responsive and powerful online interface. This will have the side effect of attracting more people to the website, thereby increasing public awareness of the tool and the number of contributors. || ~3 months || 15000€ || Yes<br />
|-<br />
| 0x010C || Global MediaWiki upgrade || Time goes by and MediaWiki versions increase. If the schedule is respected, the future LTS version (1.39) will be released in November 2022. At this time we will have to think about migrating to stay up to date and keep our users safe. This will involve small but numerous adjustments in LinguaLibre-specific extensions.<br>Beyond that, there are still many possible improvements to be made to increase user experience on our MediaWiki: the main search bar, the lack of a Visual Editor, Special pages and wikicode-editing UI ([[Special:Search]], [[Special:Recent changes]],...), etc.|| ~1.5 month || 8000€ || Yes<br />
|-<br />
| 0x010C || RecordWizard improvements || The mitigation of several major bugs, upgrading the word lists generator capabilities, enhancing the first step or adding new features like automatic audio-corrections, quality checks, support of URL parameters, there are plenty of work to do on the RecordWizard to improve its user experience. || ~4 months || 20000€ || Yes<br />
|-<br />
| Poslovitch || Update to Mediawiki 1.35.5 || MediaWiki 1.35 has received a few security releases since last year. Proper mitigations were applied in due time, but mitigations are never more foolproof than appropriately upgrading! || 1 week || Unknown || Yes (can do this, but would need help from Micka)<br />
|-<br />
| Poslovitch || Update MLEB || '''M'''ediaWiki '''L'''anguage '''E'''xtension '''B'''undle is a pack of extensions that should be updated "as a group" and not individually (and attempting to do so in December did not yield any success). As brought by [[phabricator:T295250|T295250]], updating the MLEB would allow the use of a "tvar" syntax (which I'm unfamiliar with) || 1 week || Unknown || Yes (can do this, but would need help from Micka)<br />
|-<br />
| Poslovitch || Set up a live testing environment for development and testing of new features in real conditions of use || Started back in July 2021, this has not yet been concluded. This testing environment would allow the Tech Team to make sure changes to the RecordWizard (and other extensions) do not risk to cause issues downstream. || 1 month || Unknown || Yes (but would need help from Micka)<br />
|-<br />
| Poslovitch || Implement the Lists suggestions from July 2021's Hackathon || Ideas from July 2021's Hackathon would improve the UX for lists and improve their discoverability || 3 months || Unknown || Yes<br />
|-<br />
| Languageseeker || Pull common linguistical data from Wiktionaries to Wikidata || Some linguistical data (part of speech, pronunciation, conjugation, etc) is universal and would be useful to be able pull from Wikidata. However, most of it is currently manually entered on Wiktionaries. This would pull these common bits into Wikidata. Part of this project would involve developing a system for representing linguistical data in Wikidata. It will enable the disambiguation of heteronyms. || 3 months || Unknown || Yes<br />
|}</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=763360LinguaLibre:Chat room2022-05-21T16:33:40Z<p>Languageseeker: /* How to get the city country lablel in sparql (Python) */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
{{Lang-CR}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
{{LL:Chat room/FAQ}}<br />
__TOC__<br />
<!-- **** DO NOT EDIT CONTENT ABOVE **** --><br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publish on Wikimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just tested, but my records are not published on Commons. My tests: on Firefox, then on Chrome, with 50, then with 1 expression (s), with license CC3.0-BY-SA and CC1.0. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 06:51, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[[File:LiLi April 2021 - Publish on Wikimedia Commons.png|thumb|Problème de publication sur Wikimedia Commons]]<br />
:[[phab:T281636]] —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 07:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Usually I have the same with the first two recordings in a session. Then I can upload them again at the end. Try again with more recordings, and using "retry filed upload" button. [[User:Poemat|Poemat]] ([[User talk:Poemat|talk]]) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: Yup, I had this bug many times. (I say "had" because I don't remember having encountered it after the fire incident.) Just don't give up and it should be published eventually. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::(As of 3 May 2021 and as I checked, I'm not aware of any code changes ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/commits/master history]) which may have of affected this. Seb35 made some other code change this same day.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
I add a user who has the same problem: {{u|Le Commissaire}}. —[[User:Eihel-LiLi|Eihel-LiLi]] ([[User talk:Eihel-LiLi|talk]]) 15:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Bonjour {{ping|Seb35}}, Faudrait voir avec {{u|Le Commissaire}} si le problème persiste aussi (avant de clore le ticket Phab. Sincères salutations. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 10:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::J’ai mis un message à Le Commissaire sur sa page de discussion.<br />
::::::Le problème que vous avez eu était spécifique à votre compte, c’est peut-être arrivé à d’autres personnes mais ça semble assez rare. Aussi, à partir du moment où un utilisateur a réussi à faire un envoi vers Commons, alors c’est un problème différent du vôtre ([[:phabricator:T275957|celui-ci, qui ressemble mais l’erreur est intermittente]]). Plus globalement, il faudrait que le message d’erreur soit explicite plutôt que d’aller à chercher dans la console du navigateur, je vais ouvrir un ticket Phabricator en ce sens. [[User:Seb35|Seb35]] ([[User talk:Seb35|talk]]) 10:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exclusion lists ==<br />
If anyone uses the regularly updated [[user:Olafbot|Olafbot's]] lists of wanted words ([[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]], etc.), and spotted an item that should be removed without recording, you can use the brand new exclusion lists to remove it. For example on the list [[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]] there was the word "abandonar", which apparently doesn't belong to the contemporary French corpus. Having added it on the exclusion list (here: [[user:Olafbot/exclusion list/Fra]]) the bot knows this item should never appear in French lists it maintains, and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries&diff=619214&oldid=606068 removes it] during the next update. <br />
<br />
Each "Lemmas without audio" list ({{Olafbot-wikt}}) has a corresponding exclusion list ({{Olafbot-exclusion}}). I hope it will help.<br />
<br />
Normally I would add a link to the exclusion list in a description of each lemmas list, but unfortunately, Lingua Libre engine doesn't allow adding any kind of comments or descriptions to lists, so this ad is the only way to spread a word about the new functionality. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}} Thank you so much for this useful new function! Indeed, the Record Wizard does not yet understand comments, categories nor templates on List pages, but this will be considered for future updates. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 18:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ajout d'une nouvelle langue ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour !<br />
<br />
Je souhaite ajouter la langue Q3196953 mais en suivant la [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Help:Add_a_new_language/fr procédure], je ne vois pas LinguaImporter. Quelqu'un peut-il me dire pourquoi?<br />
<br />
Cdt,<br />
BamLifa<br />
: {{ping|BamLifa}} c'est parce que tu n'es pas administrateur. Je viens d'importer le {{Q|646152}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, merci beaucoup pour cette précision. Si cette option n'est réservée qu'aux admins, pourquoi en parler dans la doc sans cette précision ? En plus, vue la multitude des langues que nous avons qui n'existent pas encore chez Lingua libre, ne pensez-vous pas que vous devriez simplifier cette tâche ? J'ai encore une autre langue à ajouter, le Bira (bila). [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 12:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|BamLifa}} c'est indiqué sur cette page (c'est même le titre de la section (Outil pour les administrateurs)). Je ne me rappelle pas pourquoi c'est réservé aux admins mais ça limite au moins les vandales qui voudraient importer des choses qui ne sont pas des langues. Bref, j'ai importé le {{Q|656403}} et le {{Q|656404}}. Si ce ne sont pas les bonnes langues, peux-tu me donner le code ISO 639-3 correspondant (ou au moins l'identifiant Wikidata) ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Merci beaucoup. [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 05:34, 22 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lists still don't work properly ==<br />
<br />
{{Ping|WikiLucas00}} {{Ping|Poslovitch}} It's better than [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Lists_stopped_working|before]], but still, sometimes the Record Wizard hangs when a list is chosen.<br />
Then I have to reload the page, and try again. Usually the second or the third time of trying the same list, it starts to work.<br />
Probably a race condition. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}}It also happens to me sometimes, but I think that it could be related to the button for removing words you already recorded. When you load a list of words you never recorded (typically Olafbot's lists), ticking the button seems to kill the loading. Best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 10:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you. Indeed, with this switch unchecked everything seems to work. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 16:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liste des mots à prononcer ==<br />
<br />
Salut ! Existe-t-il une page où des mots peuvent être ajoutés pour qu'un bon samaritain puisse parler ? [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 11:30, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|Vivaelcelta}}, les listes sont faites pour cela. Vous pouvez [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Create_your_own_lists|créer votre propre liste]] qui pourra ensuite être enregistrée par n'importe qui. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci {{u|Pamputt}}. — [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 22:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Projet Outils pour la patrouille ==<br />
:''See [[LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol assistance tool prototyping project]].''<br />
{{LangSwitch<br />
|fr=Salut,<br />
<br />
cette semaine commence un projet menés par des étudiants des formations IARF-RODECO de l’Université Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier concernant le prototypage d’outils de patrouille. Je suis, assisté par Adélaïde Calais, le superviseur de ce projet. Les étudiants sont en informatique avec une spécialisation en intelligence artificielle. L’idée est de leur faire prototyper (voire développer) des outils pour aider la patrouille de Lingua Libre en détectant automatiquement toutes sortes de problèmes. Nous avons déjà identifier quelques problèmes : clics, grésillements, bruits parasites et mauvaises prononciations (libellés et enregistrements pas raccord).<br />
<br />
Et nous avons besoin de la communauté sur deux points : <br />
# y a-t-il d’autres problèmes auxquels vous pensez ?<br />
# nous avons besoin, pour que les étudiants puissent travailler, d’enregistrements avec défauts. Si vous les avez réenregistrés, c’est pas grave, Commons a un historique. N’hésitez pas à nous communiquer les enregistrements qui ont ou avaient des défauts !<br />
<br />
Enfin, j’ai créé une page de projet accessible [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|ici]] (page traduite).<br />
<br />
(Si certain·es peuvent traduire ce message en anglais, c’est super cool.)<br />
<br />
À+,<br />
|en=Hi,<br />
<br />
This week, a project lead by student of University Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier is starting. It will be about the prototyping of patrolling tools. I supervise this project, assisted by Adélaïde Calais. The students study computer science with a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. The aim is to have them prototyping (or even developing) tools to help Lingua Libre's patrol, by automatically detecting any kind of mistake/error related to the files. We already identified a few types of mistakes: clicks, crackles, pops and labelling issues (wrong label/wrong language).<br />
<br />
We need the community on two points : <br />
# are there other problems you could think of? <br />
# we need some recordings having issues, in order for the students to be able to work. If you already recorded them again, it is not a big deal, Commons has a file history. Don't hesitate to provide us the files that have or had problems.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I created a project page, available [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|here]].<br />
<br />
See you,}}<br />
[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 09:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], Translated page —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 19:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], [[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde]], could you specify the dates for this project ? <br />
::Also, were your point 1 and two answered by the community somewhere ? (If not I could give it a try) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug}} Hi, I updated the project page with the dates. And I didn’t get any answers to my questions. [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 11:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rashidun Caliphate ==<br />
<br />
Hello {{ping|Zinou2go}},<br />
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q13955_(ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة_الراشدة.wav LL-Q13955 (ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة الراشدة.wav] is problematic (currently {{Q|Q204439}} on LiLi): it contains several cuts (clicks). I proposed the file for deletion in Commons. The recordings seem to be working better, could you record Rashidun Caliphate again? I didn't check the other records, but they are likely to have "clicks" as well. Also, can an admin delete this item on LiLi, please? Cordially. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Eihel}} Please do not nominate files for deletion before asking for the speaker to record it again and waiting a while for their answer. Also, these recordings will come useful for the team currently working on the audio issues of Lingua Libre, so we'd better not delete them (I thought you read my messages on Discord about this). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{Ping|WikiLucas00}}, J'ai enlevé la suppression sur Commons. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Code of Conduct ==<br />
Hi everyone, I just noticed again MediaWiki's [[:mw:Code of Conduct]] (2015) and Wikimedia Foundation's [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02). Back in 2015, 0x010C included the first one as a condition to contribute to [https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard RecordWizard's codebase]. As far as I know, Lili.org and its community, so far, [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Code+of+conduct has no Code of Conduct]. We may be ''implicitely'' binded by it or by some Wikimedia France's Code of Conduct, but it would be cleaner to ''explicitly'' adopt one and display it here, in written. We could therefor do the following :<br />
# Short round to confirm with have nothing in place so far.<br />
# Vote for 2 months to adopt the most recent [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02)<br />
# Copy the text into [[LinguaLibre:Universal Code of Conduct]].<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Pre-discussion ===<br />
Do we already have a Code of Conduct binding LinguaLibre ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Vote ===<br />
''Are you for or against adopting the [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021) as a code of conduct for LinguaLibre's community ?''<br><br />
''Possible votes : {{tl|support}} • {{tl|weak support}} • {{tl|weak oppose}} • {{tl|oppose}}''<br />
* {{Support}} (proposer) — better to be explicit, have a framework in place, just to be clear to all on where we stand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre website should be more appealing to Language Learners ==<br />
:''See also [https://forvo.com Forvo.com].''<br />
It would be useful if LinguaLibre follows the example of Forvo to increase the number of language learners interested in the Project.<br />
<br />
Forvo.com has a way of displaying the information that engage users and makes it very easy to find pronunciations. <br />
<br />
For example, if someone wants to learn how to pronounce "Honoré de Balzac" in French, it would be faster to find the audio on Forvo than on LinguaLibre. Also, Forvo displays the data in a way more appealing to language learners:<br />
* https://forvo.com/search/Honoré_de_Balzac/<br />
* https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Honoré+de+Balzac<br />
'''Would it be possible to improve the way that data is displayed on LinguaLibre to make it more appealing to Language Learners ?'''<br />
''In such way, the number of active users recording audios would increase significantly.'' -- [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]]<br />
:Some people previously reported such "issue". There is a [[phab:T252319|ticket]] on Phabricator to keep this in mind. However, the priority is currently given to develop patrol tools for Lingua Libre and we do not expect to see major improvements related to the audio brosing in the coming months (at least if we have no more external developers). I think it is like this because Lingua Libre has been though so that it helps for recording, not for listening; the second is let to the other Wikimedia projects, mainly Wiktionaries et Wikidata. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::YES ! There are oral discussions and proposals in this direction, but LinguaLibre being a volunteers-based team, we are moving slowly. Forvo is a for-profit entity, it locks the copyright and resale of recordings made on its platform to the speaker-creator and to themselves, to then sell those recordings with a profit. They therefor have money and swift decision-making to sustain their UI/UX efforts. We are shorter on those sides. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Sound Library's forking and hacking ===<br />
'''On the [[LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library|Sound Library]] side''', I was able to duplicate/fork it, which allows to start hack its CSS. Copy those codes into your own namespace :<br />
* [[User:Yug/common.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/common.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]] → [[Special:MyPage/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]]<br />
In those codes, you then have to replace all occurrences of "Yug" by your username, and it's should work. You can start hacking toward a more elegant interface. Note: the JS copy is in your *personal* JS and has a "stop" condition so the various JS instances won't fight. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allow recording only in the user's Native Language to avoid passing "mispronunciations" to Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
I started a discussion on the German Wiktionary because some words on LinguaLibre are not available on the DeWikt. The German Community told me that LinguaLibre adds words into Commons, but the Bot only accepts audios from “few” trusted users using a filter. <br />
<br />
The English and German Wiktionaries use a bot called "DerbethBot" to add audios from Commons. However, the English Wiktionary community asked to block Lingua Libre's recordings because there were non-native speakers recording audios and the Bot had no way to differentiate them from Native speakers. After the audios were introduced in the English Wiktionary they had to forbid adding audios from LinguaLibre:<br />
<br />
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2020/July#Labeling_non-native_audio<br />
<br />
I believe that it is necessary to avoid giving “mispronunciations” to Wictionaries. That is similar to vandalism on a Wiktionary if the reader doesn't know that it is hearing a bad pronunciation and believes that it is “native speaker”:<br />
<br />
''Some suggestions:''<br />
1) Would it be possible to name the audios files to specify if the speaker is a native or not? For example, if a French speaker records the word "maison" it could be named '''"maison-fr-native.ogg"''' . If a language learner records the same word : '''"maison-fr-learner.ogg"'''<br />
<br />
2) A radical way to address the issue would be to only allow to record in one's native language. Of course, users could change it, but strong warnings could be added and always remind people to record only their native language. Forvo seems to take this approach.<br />
<br />
It might be valuable for Linguists to have recordings of non-native speakers to study their accent features in an L-2 Language. However, in my humble opinion the pronunciations added to Wiktionary should be only native speakers and bots should have a way to differentiate them.<br />
<br />
Link to the German Wiktionary discussion about LinguaLibre: <br />
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Teestube#:~:text=von%20technischer%20seite%20gibt%20es%20keinem%20problem%2C%20zwei%20bots%20auf%20de.wiktionary%20arbeiten%20zu%20lassen.<br />
:Hi, this depends on the Wikitionary policy, and it could be different from a language to another one. Anyway, it is already possible to select only recordings done by native speaker. To do that, the speaker has to fill the {{P|16}} property ith the value {{Q|15}} (see for example {{Q|466}}). Other values for {{P|16}} are given [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q5|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sursilvan ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
[[Special:Contributions/Franz.Roos.1955|User:Franz.Roos.1955]] made 2 recordings in [[:en:wp:Sursilvan]] : rauna ([[Q689785]]), tschitta ([[Q689786]]). Sursilvan has no iso code. Do we have a procedure for such languages ? (I forgot if the case already shown up). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:There is not issue. It simply uses the Wikidata identifier when there is no ISO code. Se for example {{Q|1186}}. To record in such languages, we have to create an item for this language/dialect on Lingua Libre, and this is already done for {{Q|74905}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Thank Pamputt for the clarification. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[commons:commons:structured data]] ==<br />
<br />
I've been very pleased with LL's tooling, that does so much of the process of uploading to Commons, sensible naming, description-writing, and categorisation for me; however, I have an idea for an additional step LL could automate. This is in Commons' no-longer-so-new structured data section, which manifests (among other ways) as a tab on the file page.<br />
<br />
As an example of what could be automatically added to a file's datastore, there is a property called 'audio transcription' which serves a similar role to Commons' TimedText subtitle functionality (silly example: [[commons:TimedText:051226-kakapo-billbooming.ogg.en.srt]]) but for shorter clips -- in other words, seemingly designed with applications like LinguaLibre in mind.<br />
<br />
Since these are of the so-called 'monolingual text' datatype, the source language can be specified (or where not part of the main set of languages Wikimedia uses, the special code 'mis' is used and 'language of work or name' used as a qualifier) at the same time as the actual text that is being spoken, which LL has access to since the audio file started out as a text prompt!<br />
<br />
What think y'all? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 04:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Arlo Barnes}} there is [[phab:T239272|Phabricator ticket]] about this topic. Currently there are not yet all properties on Wikidata to fit all Lingua Libre properties. For example, I [[d:Wikidata:Property proposal/language level|proposed to create]] a property for the language level of a speaker but it did not get enough support. SO I guess, we should first list all properties we would like to add on SDC. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [Feature Request] Play next sound automatically while checking recordings ==<br />
<br />
After recording sounds it is important to check them to verify their quality. However, it is very tiring to record 380 words and afterwards have to click 380 times on the ''“Next button”'' while checking them.<br />
<br />
'''After recording, would it be possible to add a button to "Play next sound automatically" ?''' [https://i.imgur.com/XwC34pj.png Screenshot Here] [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, it is already [[phab:T218372|tracked on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "How to use Lingua Libre for your language learning" ==<br />
<br />
I recently found a "new" way to benefit from the sounds on Lingua Libre. I would suggest that it could be advertised on the Lingua Libre main website and on the Wikipedia in French/English:<br />
* [[:en:wp:GoldenDict|GoldenDict]] is a FOSS Dictionary application very valuable for language learners. <br />
<br />
A way to benefit from Lingua Libre recordings is to download the datasets, unzip them and "load" the sounds on GoldenDict (as Sound Directories. [https://i.imgur.com/9avJDgS.png Screenshot here]). In such a way, users have easily an offline "Pronunciation Dictionary". It is very easy to do. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/axRHruk.png screenshot] of how it looks to GoldenDict the French word "fuir". Another example [https://i.imgur.com/Rq0nQCt.png here].<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre sounds can be used with GoldenDict OFFLINE. That is a huge advantage in developing countries, where language learners often do not have reliable internet connection.<br />
<br />
''It would be valuable to create a description on the Lingua Libre website about'' '''"How to use Lingua Libre sounds for your language learning"''' .<br />
<br />
There it would be possible to describe how to use the audios offline with GoldenDict, etc. If more methods are developed (Anki add-on), better GUI, Android App, etc. they could be explained there.--[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:1) '''Reuse of datasets :''' Yes ! Dataset download and reuse must be showcasted and strengthened. I think a "Reuses gallery" page could be created, with screenshot and minimal how-to for GoldenDict, Anki and others.<br />
:2) '''Anki:''' You are the 4th or 5th contributor to rise the need for an Anki add-on. We need to do something on this side, yes. It's more than 1~2 days work and too big for a volunteer work, so we need to apply for a grant. I'am looking in and mapping our options at the moment ({{tl|Grants table}}). At one point we have to jump in and design a project, yes.<br />
:3) For '''e-learning app''', a 5k€ project was designed by myself a year ago. The funding by local regional government was declined, but it could easily be refreshed.<br />
:We have to redesign some projects and apply in early 2022. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::The core question is the Human Resources. <br />
::'''*Daily routines*''' keeps WikiLucas, Pamputt, Poslovitch and myself –aka the community-side contributors— busy maintaining the place, welcoming and guiding new users, cleaning pages, etc. We are now quite smooth, successful and stable on this side.<br />
::To '''*push forward*''' on developments, UI, tools, e-learning, communication, grants, we each have one or two side projects in mind, pushing those <u>''slowly''</u>. But as always in FOSS projects the task ahead is much larger and we could achieve much more with more human resources.<br />
::'''Overall''', it's possible we are at a new turning right now. As things are stable, with road maps available, '''we just need 1 to 3 new coordinators and communicants contributors to tip the dynamic into forward-offensive mode''', with communication therefor new arrivals, new speakers, new devs, new coordinators and really push forward with new events/workshop, funds and SMART features. <br />
::@[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]], I'am currently writing down structuring "community how to" to ease new contributor's jumping in (see [[LinguaLibre:Roles]], [[LinguaLibre:Workshops]], {{tl|Grants table}}). You are doing a nice push on communication (It's FOSS) and with your questions you are mapping out Lili's needs. Pamputt and WikiLucas are following our progresses. All this is pretty interesting. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would like to work on the "Public Relations" Department of LinguaLibre! - EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) : '''Any PR campaign would fail miserably if there is no search function.''' I explain the reasons at the end of this section: [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]]<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 23:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Sound good :) Your outreach to YouTubers and popular FOSS blogs is spot on.<br />
::I am back from a wikibreak, I am cleaning up some last pages, then since the maintenance side is stable I would like to focus my energy on projects design –recording rare languages, technology, PR campaign– and associated grant requests to secure funding and the actual realization of those visions. We can collaborate. You lead on the PR : design your campaign. I can review and help it to fit some Grants formats. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I created a new wiki page in the "events" section of a "PR Campaign for 2022". Please visit [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]] and participate in the discussion with new ideas. EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) I will NOT contribute anymore to a PR campaign. the reasons are explained as comment on the relevant section [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 21:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating a LL catgory for a dialect ==<br />
<br />
Would be grateful if someone could tell me if it's possible to create a LL category for a dialect?<br />
<br />
We're working in Konkani, which has its own (but small) Wikipedia at http://gom.wikipedia.org Under Konkani, there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. <br />
<br />
Would like to create a category for Saxtti (the Salcete dialect of Konkani). This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. Also, it would allow the recordings of many others which might have already been done in Konkani as a how.<br />
<br />
Question: How do we create space for the dialects of a language? <br />
<br />
Thanks very much, in advance! --[[User:Fredericknoronha|Fredericknoronha]] ([[User talk:Fredericknoronha|talk]]) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello {{ping|Fredericknoronha}} and welcome to Lingua Libre. I imported {{Q|700683}} (gom) as it was not on Lingua Libre yet. On Lingua Libre, dialects are treated the same way as languages. You can create an element for your dialect on Wikidata (example for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35359 auvergnat dialect]) and tell us once it is ready, so that we can import it on Lingua Libre with an admin tool. You can also directly create an element for your dialect on Lingua Libre, following the steps described at [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Add_a_new_language|Help:Add a new language]] and taking example of {{Q|1186}}. Don't hesitate to ping an admin if you have any questions.<br />
:All the best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::''« there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. […] This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. »''<br />
::If the writing are similar but only the pronunciation differs depending on where the speaker comes from, it looks like different accents.<br />
::Recordings are specific to a word, a language and a speaker. Which means me recording in French the word "bonjour" will be one audio file on Lili. WikiLucas can record in French the same word "bonjour", it will create an other audio file on Lili. My recording(s), since i come from the South West, will carry the southern accent. Recordings by WikiLucas, who lives 700km East of me, will cary the Lyon area accent. Lingualibre will store 2 recordings, one per user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Hello {{u|Fredericknoronha}}, I have imported {{Q|701734}} so that you can now record words in that dialect. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Feedback about Lingua Libre by Professor Carol Genetti, PhD ==<br />
<br />
'''Dear Members of Lingua Libre,<br />
'''<br />
I am pleased to share a message from Professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Genetti Carol Genetti], a linguist and leading expert in endangered languages. Professor Genetti is author of one of the best books in the field of Linguistics called "How Languages Work". Her vast knowledge and experience are extremely valuable and after reviewing Lingua Libre she said:<br />
<br />
''Thank you for contacting me and letting me know about this initiative. It is an interesting idea. I especially like the multilingual menus -- very helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Are you aware of [https://www.endangeredlanguages.com/ this website], hosted by the University of Hawaii (and, I believe, funded by Google). So one thing that occurs to me is the proliferation of such sites. How will people in an endangered-language community find out about their options, and then make an informed choice about which of these online resources will be best over time for their communities? Should such efforts cross-reference each other?''<br />
<br />
''My second thought has to do with longevity. It takes a significant commitment to support a site like this over time. The challenge is having someone who can keep such sites funded, working, organized, relevant, and engaging users over time. How will you make sure that the data will be available in 10, 50, 150 years? Maybe you get that automatically by being associated with Wikipedia. If so, state that. Also, there should be a clear statement of how such data might be used, and by whom, so speakers know that if they record a wordlist, someone might use if for some purpose without their permission (is that right?).<br />
''<br />
''I'm sorry to have to bring a down-to-earth message to the inspiration and passion for endangered languages that has clearly fueled this work, but having seen other initiatives stumble in this way, I wanted to be sure that you are thinking about this. Speakers will be entrusting you with such valuable pieces of their lives and their cultures. How will you safeguard this over time? Let people know.<br />
''<br />
''Those issues aside, here are a couple of other comments:''<br />
<br />
* There should be a statement targeted for speakers of endangered languages - why would they want to do this? What is the value for them and their communities? What will happen to the recordings? etc.''<br />
* Will you provide speakers with suggestions for what vocabulary to record, e.g. greetings, colors, verb forms?''<br />
* It would be helpful if it was clear from the large list of languages which ones have recordings. Maybe put those in a different color font?''<br />
* It would be helpful to include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language. Otherwise, someone's grandkids coming to this in 30 years will not know what the words mean.''<br />
* Do you want to move beyond single words to a piece of connected discourse, such as a short poem or story, a song, or the reading of some common text (such as a sentence from the UN Declaration for Linguistic Rights)?''<br />
* Should there be a means to flag inappropriate content?''<br />
<br />
''I hope that you find this helpful. And I'm so glad you liked my book! It is lovely to hear that people have found it helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Carol Genetti''<br />
''Vice Provost for Graduate and Postdoctoral Programs''<br />
''NYU Abu Dhabi''<br />
''(she/her/hers)''<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, this is some interesting feedback.<br />
:* "What will happen to the recordings?": Our homepage lacks such important information. We should plan a redesign for 2022 (inspired by the homepage of [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/ Common Voice]?) so that we finally have a homepage that properly explains what Lingua Libre is and can do.<br />
:* "Suggestions of things to record?": This already exists. They're called Lists. We have some pending improvements on that matter (easier to find and contribute to, etc.)<br />
:* "Show which languages have recordings": The datasets page could help, but I guess it would be interesting to put that on an easy-to-find page (again, like [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/languages Common Voice's languages page]?)<br />
:* "Include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language": we only support "transcription" for now.<br />
:** How could we even "link" the recordings to translations? (Lexemes? Plain text?)<br />
:** Who would have to do that? (the locutor? a dedicated team of contributors?)<br />
:** Where would it be done? (in the RecordWizard?)<br />
:** -> That's an interesting thing to think about, but might be slightly out of scope right now<br />
:* "Sentences, stories, songs...?": Yes, indeed. The Record Wizard is already able to do that (with some config tweaks that have to be done by the locutor), but it would be great to streamline this further. Dedicated UI, ability to record an audiobook (or Wikipedia, Wikisource, Wikinews article) as a mixture of sentences that can be stored locally before being all merged together into one audio file sent to Commons, ability for multiple contributors to work on the same book/article... That's something we should also discuss with the [https://librivox.org/ Librivox] folks: they use Audacity so far, but they might be interested in a tool that's better suited to their needs.<br />
:* "flag inappropriate content?": My insight is focused on technical stuff. This sounds more like some editorial guidelines that would have to be debated by the community.<br />
:* "'''longevity'''?": Should Lingua Libre vanish tomorrow, the audio recordings are not lost. They're all stored on Wikimedia Commons, and that makes them as "immortal" as files stored on hard disks, SSDs, CDs or magnetic bands and mirrored half a dozen times around the world can be. However, I can't say much about our Wikibase, which, at the current time, '''is the only place where all the recordings and locutor-related metadata is stored'''. That's a serious single point of failure. There are no dumps and therefore no mirrorring. We'll definitely have to discuss it with Wikimedia France and the Tech Team.<br />
:Hopefully my answers are clear and comprehensible. I'm pleased to have received feedback from Pr. Genetti. Now it's our turn to take matters in our hands! --[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to delete lists? ==<br />
:{{Done}} <br />
Hello, recently I completed some lists. Now everything is done and those lists are needless. Is there any possibility to delete lists? Greetings --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} hello, admins can delete those lists. The lists you created are [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?target=Onkel+Tomm&namespace=142&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions here]. Which ones should I delete ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Hello Yug, please delete all 8 lists, because they are all finally finished. Thanks. --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 13:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} We are clean ! thank for asking, it keeps the place clean :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Case study ==<br />
Hello all, I noticed a file upload which gather interesting use cases.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Item || Label || Speaker || Account || Filename || Category<br />
|-<br />
| [[Q709231]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q709231&oldid=689510 arch.]) || "Ingenieur" || [[Q674858]] 'fleur' || User:Beat_Ruest || [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] || [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest]]<br />
|-<br />
| — || Mispelling of "Ingénieur" || – || – || Carries the misspelling || Category page was not created, therefor virtually "lost" to Wikimedia Commons and [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
* Question 1: How do we handle mispelling ? I assume renaming ALL THREE of the [[Q709231]]'s label AND Property:P3 'recording' AND Wikimedia file [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] rename. Is that ok or will it break something ?<br />
* Question 2: Category should be automatically created. How do we go for this ? I assume a request on [[LinguaLibre:Bot]]<br />
* Question 3: What about the category by *speaker/voice* ([[Q709231]] 'fleur'), which curently doesn't exist, and which can have multiple speakers with the same name 'fleur' ?<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Question 1: it is a good start. I guess, we need to fix it both on Lingua Libre and on Wikimedia Commons<br />
: Question 2: you speak about categories on Wikimedia Commons? If so, I guess a bot can do it (Lingua Libre Bot or another one).<br />
: Question 3: actually the speaker is identified as "fleur (Beat Ruest)". Only one locutor of Beat Ruest can use the nickname "fleur".<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Q1, Q2 agree.<br />
::Q3 : {{ping|Pamputt}} check the categories on [[:commons:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} you mean the problem is [[:c:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] is categorized in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest" and not in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by fleur (Beat Ruest)" or similar name? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, we dont have categorization by '''speaker''' "Fleur (Beat Ruest)". Low importance, but could be a feature request. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gestion de doublons ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]'' (new, needs review!)<br />
<br />
Bonsoir !<br />
<br />
Il y a-t-il une gestion de doublons dans LL pour les mots d'une même langue ? [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 13:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]], si un même locuteur enregistre le même mot alors l'enregistrement précédent sera écrasé (un même locuteur ne peut enregistrer qu'une seule fois le même mot). En revanche, rien n'empêche l'enregistrement d'un même mot par plusieurs locuteurs et locutrices différentes, c'est même un des objectifs de Lingua Libre : mettre en lumière la diversité des prononciations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] : Comment sont alors gérés les homographes non homophones ? ^^ [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]] ([[User talk:Totodu74|talk]]) 00:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Bonjour [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], il est possible d'ajouter des indications entre parenthèses (cette information est stockée à l'aide de {{P|18}}). Voir par exemple {{Q|1685}} et {{Q|1686}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
:::@[[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], salut, la question des homographes est en partie résolue dans nos langues africaines qui sont essentiellement des langues à tons. --[[User:Rçag|Rçag]] ([[User talk:Rçag|talk]]) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Rçag, could you explain your solution a bit so we learn from it.<br />
:{{Ping|BamLifa|Rçag|Pamputt|Totodu74}} the page [[Help:Homographs]] is there to gather best practices. It's new, review and edits welcome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Comment changer de pseudonyme ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, sur les projets de Wikimedia, mon pseudonyme est Manjiro91 (et anciennement GamissimoYT), comment change-t-on de pseudonyme ?<br />
[[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|GamissimoYT}}. Lingua Libre utilise le même pseudo que celui qui est en utilisation sur Wikimedia Commons. Donc si vous voulez utiliser le pesudonyme Manjiro91, déconnectez-vous de Lingua Libre, puis de Wikimedia Commons. Ensuite, connectez vous à Commons avec le pseudo Manjiro91 et enfin reconnectez vous à Lingua Libre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
{{Notif|Pamputt}} Mon pseudonyme Wikimedia Commons est Manjiro91 (anciennement GamissimoYT mais le changement de pseudonyme ne s'effectue pas sur LiLi. [[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|GamissimoYT}}, tu as bien fait les connexions/déconnexions dans l'ordre que j'ai indiqué ? Si tu es sûr que tu es connecté avec Manjiro91 sur Wikimedia Commons, alors tu peux essayer de te déconnecter de Lingua Libre et te reconnecter dans la foulée. Essayer de vider le cache du navigateur peut peut-être aidé aussi. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging of items about languages ==<br />
<br />
Hi y'all,<br />
<br />
For the record, I just merge a couple of items about the same language:<br />
* {{Q|52071}} in {{Q|73}}<br />
* {{Q|139228}} in {{Q|183}}<br />
* {{Q|170137}} in {{Q|359}}<br />
* {{Q|683869}} in {{Q|418}}<br />
* {{Q|646169}} in {{Q|6714}}<br />
* {{Q|570518}} in {{Q|52069}}<br />
* {{Q|538624}} in {{Q|84030}}<br />
* {{Q|646173}} in {{Q|390314}}<br />
* {{Q|646161}} in {{Q|502754}}<br />
* {{Q|570510}} in {{Q|489393}}<br />
<br />
I detected them with this SPARQL query: <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql"><br />
SELECT ?idWD (COUNT(?item) AS ?compte) (GROUP_CONCAT(?item) AS ?items) WHERE {<br />
?item prop:P2 entity:Q4 ; prop:P12 ?idWD .<br />
}<br />
GROUP BY ?idWD<br />
HAVING ( ?compte > 1 )<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
Ping {{ping|WikiLucas00}} it seems you are responsible for some of them...<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks VIGNERON for finding them and cleaning it. Now what to do with recording items that use the doublon language item (for example with [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q52071|Duala]]). I think we must modify {{P|4}} for all recording items so that languages are not counted twice and also to clean up the database (there are also transcription problems for items listed in the Duala example). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you {{ping|VIGNERON}} for pointing these out. As you can see, most of them were not created manually but using the tool (the pages wheighted circa 4kB, with labels in many languages). It seems that the Lingua Importer tool has (or had?) a problem, but I could not reproduce it (trying to import languages that are already in LL wikibase).<br/> During last summer's hackathon we talked a bit about languages in our wikibase, but I can't remember why we need to have language elements in our Wikibase, and not just use the existing base of WikiData 🤔 — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MediaWiki customizations of LinguaLibre ==<br />
<br />
Love the MediaWiki skin of LinguaLibre and I am curious of skin and customizations made. Who are the authors? (can not see credits) --[[User:Zblace|Zblace]] ([[User talk:Zblace|talk]]) 10:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The skin is known as BlueLL. The source code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL github]. It has been developed by Wikimedia France in 2020. That's said, it is true there is no licence and credits on Github. I will ask to {{u|Adélaïde Calais WMFr}} if she remember anything so that I can the missing informations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New property: translation ==<br />
Hello, I've created {{P|38}} to be used in case there is no writing in the recording language but instead a translation in the vehicular language. See for example what I did [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q212431&type=revision&diff=743039&oldid=191330 here] and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q58994&type=revision&diff=743044&oldid=580313 there]. Do you agree with that? Any comment? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:It's a good idea! Many users tend to add a translation as they find it important for other people to have. It will also be handy for cases like your second example, where we only have the translation but not the transcription of the source language: we will be able to query the base to see all audios of a language that have a translation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::I am thinking about a way to populate automatically this property via the Record Wizard. Currently, it seems that the Record Wizard populates {{P|18}} when something is written between brackets (see {{Q|1685}} for example but I have not checked recently). So, if we modify the Record Wizard code, it is possible to recognize this is a translation in another language and so to populate {{P|38}}. But I would like to be sure to propose the best way to do it before asking for such development. The idea is to be managed automatically (or at least not completely manually). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 00:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone ! <br />
<br/>This week, Wikimedia France is preparing its budget for the fiscal year to come : July 2022 to June 2023. If there are things you would like to see done or to do with our help on Lingua Libre, please share it on this page : https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection <br />
<br/>Have a great week-end ! --[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 17:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
: {{u|marreromarco}} Thank you for your suggestions. However, I have some reservations about "Add function to "Request" a Pronunciation to Native Speakers" at this current stage for two reasons. First, this will require quite a bit of moderation to correct requests for grammar and spelling (e.g. HASBAND) as well as remove terrible requests. This will place a large burden on a few users and can easily lead to questionable decisions by moderators. Second, Forvo is flooded with requests that are either overly specific (e.g. "He came back from abyss and won the tie.") and, therefore, likely benefit only one user. IMHO, Rdrg109 proposal to focus on providing pronunciations for entries on the various wiktionaries is a better approach to building up the LL at this point. It will provide a solid foundation for users to find any word in LL. It might be a better time to open up LL to general requests once this project is completed and the community has grown. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 15:49, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to get the city country lablel in sparql (Python) ==<br />
<br />
I'm working on an Anki extension for LL, but I'm having a little trouble writing the sparql query. In short, I want to be able to get the city and country for a recording in LL. However, when I query P14, I get the link to the item instead of 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'} or 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'}. Instead I hope to get city:"" and country "France" for the first query city:"Paris" and country:"France" for the second one. Any ideas? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Languageseeker}} thanks for your work on a Anki extension. Could you post here the query you have now? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{u|Pamputt}} . The query that I'm using is a very lightly modified version of the bot query. <br />
<br />
:: <syntaxhighlight lang="sparql">ENDPOINT = "https://lingualibre.org/bigdata/namespace/wdq/sparql"<br />
API = "https://lingualibre.org/api.php"<br />
BASEQUERY = """<br />
SELECT DISTINCT<br />
?record ?file ?transcription ?recorded<br />
?languageIso ?languageQid ?languageWMCode<br />
?residence ?learningPlace ?languageLevel<br />
?speaker ?linkeduser<br />
WHERE {<br />
?record prop:P2 entity:Q2 .<br />
?record prop:P3 ?file .<br />
?record prop:P4 ?language .<br />
?record prop:P5 ?speaker .<br />
?record prop:P6 ?recorded .<br />
?record prop:P7 ?transcription .<br />
?language prop:P13 ?languageIso.<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel .<br />
?speaker prop:P11 ?linkeduser .<br />
?speaker prop:P14 ?residence .<br />
?speaker llp:P4 ?speakerLanguagesStatement .<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llv:P4 ?speakerLanguages .<br />
OPTIONAL { ?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel . }<br />
FILTER( ?speakerLanguages = ?language) .<br />
SERVICE wikibase:label {<br />
bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" .<br />
}<br />
#filters<br />
}"""</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
:: Currently, I'm running it with filters = "" because it seems that a query for a single term takes around 70s, while fetching a single transcription takes about 145 seconds. My plan is to group the results by transcription and then write that into a json file to avoid the costly query. Basically, I need the speaker name, the term, their country, their city, the ISO code of the language, date created, and the filename, languageLevel. <br />
<br />
:: For example, for the term un chien, the json would look like:<br />
:: { "term": {"un chien": {"speaker": "Julien Baley", "language": "fra", "city": "", "country": "France", "recorded": "2020-11-27", "filename": "LL-Q150_(fra)-Julien_Baley-un_chien.wav", "languageLevel": "Q15"}}} [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user ==<br />
<br />
I wrote a [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader python program] that downloads all the files created by one user. For video files, it downloads the full webm. For audio files, the default is to download the wave file. However, for audio files, you can optionally choose either mp3 or ogg files. Currently, the configuration requires a minor modification of lluad.py. If there is strong demand, I will write a command line parser for it. Please report any bugs or errors on the github page. Feature requests are welcome. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=763359LinguaLibre:Chat room2022-05-21T16:33:11Z<p>Languageseeker: /* How to get the city country lablel in sparql (Python) */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
{{Lang-CR}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
{{LL:Chat room/FAQ}}<br />
__TOC__<br />
<!-- **** DO NOT EDIT CONTENT ABOVE **** --><br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publish on Wikimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just tested, but my records are not published on Commons. My tests: on Firefox, then on Chrome, with 50, then with 1 expression (s), with license CC3.0-BY-SA and CC1.0. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 06:51, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[[File:LiLi April 2021 - Publish on Wikimedia Commons.png|thumb|Problème de publication sur Wikimedia Commons]]<br />
:[[phab:T281636]] —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 07:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Usually I have the same with the first two recordings in a session. Then I can upload them again at the end. Try again with more recordings, and using "retry filed upload" button. [[User:Poemat|Poemat]] ([[User talk:Poemat|talk]]) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: Yup, I had this bug many times. (I say "had" because I don't remember having encountered it after the fire incident.) Just don't give up and it should be published eventually. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::(As of 3 May 2021 and as I checked, I'm not aware of any code changes ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/commits/master history]) which may have of affected this. Seb35 made some other code change this same day.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
I add a user who has the same problem: {{u|Le Commissaire}}. —[[User:Eihel-LiLi|Eihel-LiLi]] ([[User talk:Eihel-LiLi|talk]]) 15:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Bonjour {{ping|Seb35}}, Faudrait voir avec {{u|Le Commissaire}} si le problème persiste aussi (avant de clore le ticket Phab. Sincères salutations. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 10:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::J’ai mis un message à Le Commissaire sur sa page de discussion.<br />
::::::Le problème que vous avez eu était spécifique à votre compte, c’est peut-être arrivé à d’autres personnes mais ça semble assez rare. Aussi, à partir du moment où un utilisateur a réussi à faire un envoi vers Commons, alors c’est un problème différent du vôtre ([[:phabricator:T275957|celui-ci, qui ressemble mais l’erreur est intermittente]]). Plus globalement, il faudrait que le message d’erreur soit explicite plutôt que d’aller à chercher dans la console du navigateur, je vais ouvrir un ticket Phabricator en ce sens. [[User:Seb35|Seb35]] ([[User talk:Seb35|talk]]) 10:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exclusion lists ==<br />
If anyone uses the regularly updated [[user:Olafbot|Olafbot's]] lists of wanted words ([[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]], etc.), and spotted an item that should be removed without recording, you can use the brand new exclusion lists to remove it. For example on the list [[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]] there was the word "abandonar", which apparently doesn't belong to the contemporary French corpus. Having added it on the exclusion list (here: [[user:Olafbot/exclusion list/Fra]]) the bot knows this item should never appear in French lists it maintains, and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries&diff=619214&oldid=606068 removes it] during the next update. <br />
<br />
Each "Lemmas without audio" list ({{Olafbot-wikt}}) has a corresponding exclusion list ({{Olafbot-exclusion}}). I hope it will help.<br />
<br />
Normally I would add a link to the exclusion list in a description of each lemmas list, but unfortunately, Lingua Libre engine doesn't allow adding any kind of comments or descriptions to lists, so this ad is the only way to spread a word about the new functionality. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}} Thank you so much for this useful new function! Indeed, the Record Wizard does not yet understand comments, categories nor templates on List pages, but this will be considered for future updates. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 18:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ajout d'une nouvelle langue ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour !<br />
<br />
Je souhaite ajouter la langue Q3196953 mais en suivant la [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Help:Add_a_new_language/fr procédure], je ne vois pas LinguaImporter. Quelqu'un peut-il me dire pourquoi?<br />
<br />
Cdt,<br />
BamLifa<br />
: {{ping|BamLifa}} c'est parce que tu n'es pas administrateur. Je viens d'importer le {{Q|646152}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, merci beaucoup pour cette précision. Si cette option n'est réservée qu'aux admins, pourquoi en parler dans la doc sans cette précision ? En plus, vue la multitude des langues que nous avons qui n'existent pas encore chez Lingua libre, ne pensez-vous pas que vous devriez simplifier cette tâche ? J'ai encore une autre langue à ajouter, le Bira (bila). [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 12:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|BamLifa}} c'est indiqué sur cette page (c'est même le titre de la section (Outil pour les administrateurs)). Je ne me rappelle pas pourquoi c'est réservé aux admins mais ça limite au moins les vandales qui voudraient importer des choses qui ne sont pas des langues. Bref, j'ai importé le {{Q|656403}} et le {{Q|656404}}. Si ce ne sont pas les bonnes langues, peux-tu me donner le code ISO 639-3 correspondant (ou au moins l'identifiant Wikidata) ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Merci beaucoup. [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 05:34, 22 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lists still don't work properly ==<br />
<br />
{{Ping|WikiLucas00}} {{Ping|Poslovitch}} It's better than [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Lists_stopped_working|before]], but still, sometimes the Record Wizard hangs when a list is chosen.<br />
Then I have to reload the page, and try again. Usually the second or the third time of trying the same list, it starts to work.<br />
Probably a race condition. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}}It also happens to me sometimes, but I think that it could be related to the button for removing words you already recorded. When you load a list of words you never recorded (typically Olafbot's lists), ticking the button seems to kill the loading. Best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 10:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you. Indeed, with this switch unchecked everything seems to work. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 16:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liste des mots à prononcer ==<br />
<br />
Salut ! Existe-t-il une page où des mots peuvent être ajoutés pour qu'un bon samaritain puisse parler ? [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 11:30, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|Vivaelcelta}}, les listes sont faites pour cela. Vous pouvez [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Create_your_own_lists|créer votre propre liste]] qui pourra ensuite être enregistrée par n'importe qui. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci {{u|Pamputt}}. — [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 22:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Projet Outils pour la patrouille ==<br />
:''See [[LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol assistance tool prototyping project]].''<br />
{{LangSwitch<br />
|fr=Salut,<br />
<br />
cette semaine commence un projet menés par des étudiants des formations IARF-RODECO de l’Université Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier concernant le prototypage d’outils de patrouille. Je suis, assisté par Adélaïde Calais, le superviseur de ce projet. Les étudiants sont en informatique avec une spécialisation en intelligence artificielle. L’idée est de leur faire prototyper (voire développer) des outils pour aider la patrouille de Lingua Libre en détectant automatiquement toutes sortes de problèmes. Nous avons déjà identifier quelques problèmes : clics, grésillements, bruits parasites et mauvaises prononciations (libellés et enregistrements pas raccord).<br />
<br />
Et nous avons besoin de la communauté sur deux points : <br />
# y a-t-il d’autres problèmes auxquels vous pensez ?<br />
# nous avons besoin, pour que les étudiants puissent travailler, d’enregistrements avec défauts. Si vous les avez réenregistrés, c’est pas grave, Commons a un historique. N’hésitez pas à nous communiquer les enregistrements qui ont ou avaient des défauts !<br />
<br />
Enfin, j’ai créé une page de projet accessible [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|ici]] (page traduite).<br />
<br />
(Si certain·es peuvent traduire ce message en anglais, c’est super cool.)<br />
<br />
À+,<br />
|en=Hi,<br />
<br />
This week, a project lead by student of University Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier is starting. It will be about the prototyping of patrolling tools. I supervise this project, assisted by Adélaïde Calais. The students study computer science with a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. The aim is to have them prototyping (or even developing) tools to help Lingua Libre's patrol, by automatically detecting any kind of mistake/error related to the files. We already identified a few types of mistakes: clicks, crackles, pops and labelling issues (wrong label/wrong language).<br />
<br />
We need the community on two points : <br />
# are there other problems you could think of? <br />
# we need some recordings having issues, in order for the students to be able to work. If you already recorded them again, it is not a big deal, Commons has a file history. Don't hesitate to provide us the files that have or had problems.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I created a project page, available [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|here]].<br />
<br />
See you,}}<br />
[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 09:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], Translated page —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 19:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], [[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde]], could you specify the dates for this project ? <br />
::Also, were your point 1 and two answered by the community somewhere ? (If not I could give it a try) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug}} Hi, I updated the project page with the dates. And I didn’t get any answers to my questions. [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 11:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rashidun Caliphate ==<br />
<br />
Hello {{ping|Zinou2go}},<br />
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q13955_(ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة_الراشدة.wav LL-Q13955 (ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة الراشدة.wav] is problematic (currently {{Q|Q204439}} on LiLi): it contains several cuts (clicks). I proposed the file for deletion in Commons. The recordings seem to be working better, could you record Rashidun Caliphate again? I didn't check the other records, but they are likely to have "clicks" as well. Also, can an admin delete this item on LiLi, please? Cordially. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Eihel}} Please do not nominate files for deletion before asking for the speaker to record it again and waiting a while for their answer. Also, these recordings will come useful for the team currently working on the audio issues of Lingua Libre, so we'd better not delete them (I thought you read my messages on Discord about this). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{Ping|WikiLucas00}}, J'ai enlevé la suppression sur Commons. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Code of Conduct ==<br />
Hi everyone, I just noticed again MediaWiki's [[:mw:Code of Conduct]] (2015) and Wikimedia Foundation's [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02). Back in 2015, 0x010C included the first one as a condition to contribute to [https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard RecordWizard's codebase]. As far as I know, Lili.org and its community, so far, [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Code+of+conduct has no Code of Conduct]. We may be ''implicitely'' binded by it or by some Wikimedia France's Code of Conduct, but it would be cleaner to ''explicitly'' adopt one and display it here, in written. We could therefor do the following :<br />
# Short round to confirm with have nothing in place so far.<br />
# Vote for 2 months to adopt the most recent [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02)<br />
# Copy the text into [[LinguaLibre:Universal Code of Conduct]].<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Pre-discussion ===<br />
Do we already have a Code of Conduct binding LinguaLibre ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Vote ===<br />
''Are you for or against adopting the [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021) as a code of conduct for LinguaLibre's community ?''<br><br />
''Possible votes : {{tl|support}} • {{tl|weak support}} • {{tl|weak oppose}} • {{tl|oppose}}''<br />
* {{Support}} (proposer) — better to be explicit, have a framework in place, just to be clear to all on where we stand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre website should be more appealing to Language Learners ==<br />
:''See also [https://forvo.com Forvo.com].''<br />
It would be useful if LinguaLibre follows the example of Forvo to increase the number of language learners interested in the Project.<br />
<br />
Forvo.com has a way of displaying the information that engage users and makes it very easy to find pronunciations. <br />
<br />
For example, if someone wants to learn how to pronounce "Honoré de Balzac" in French, it would be faster to find the audio on Forvo than on LinguaLibre. Also, Forvo displays the data in a way more appealing to language learners:<br />
* https://forvo.com/search/Honoré_de_Balzac/<br />
* https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Honoré+de+Balzac<br />
'''Would it be possible to improve the way that data is displayed on LinguaLibre to make it more appealing to Language Learners ?'''<br />
''In such way, the number of active users recording audios would increase significantly.'' -- [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]]<br />
:Some people previously reported such "issue". There is a [[phab:T252319|ticket]] on Phabricator to keep this in mind. However, the priority is currently given to develop patrol tools for Lingua Libre and we do not expect to see major improvements related to the audio brosing in the coming months (at least if we have no more external developers). I think it is like this because Lingua Libre has been though so that it helps for recording, not for listening; the second is let to the other Wikimedia projects, mainly Wiktionaries et Wikidata. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::YES ! There are oral discussions and proposals in this direction, but LinguaLibre being a volunteers-based team, we are moving slowly. Forvo is a for-profit entity, it locks the copyright and resale of recordings made on its platform to the speaker-creator and to themselves, to then sell those recordings with a profit. They therefor have money and swift decision-making to sustain their UI/UX efforts. We are shorter on those sides. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Sound Library's forking and hacking ===<br />
'''On the [[LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library|Sound Library]] side''', I was able to duplicate/fork it, which allows to start hack its CSS. Copy those codes into your own namespace :<br />
* [[User:Yug/common.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/common.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]] → [[Special:MyPage/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]]<br />
In those codes, you then have to replace all occurrences of "Yug" by your username, and it's should work. You can start hacking toward a more elegant interface. Note: the JS copy is in your *personal* JS and has a "stop" condition so the various JS instances won't fight. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allow recording only in the user's Native Language to avoid passing "mispronunciations" to Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
I started a discussion on the German Wiktionary because some words on LinguaLibre are not available on the DeWikt. The German Community told me that LinguaLibre adds words into Commons, but the Bot only accepts audios from “few” trusted users using a filter. <br />
<br />
The English and German Wiktionaries use a bot called "DerbethBot" to add audios from Commons. However, the English Wiktionary community asked to block Lingua Libre's recordings because there were non-native speakers recording audios and the Bot had no way to differentiate them from Native speakers. After the audios were introduced in the English Wiktionary they had to forbid adding audios from LinguaLibre:<br />
<br />
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2020/July#Labeling_non-native_audio<br />
<br />
I believe that it is necessary to avoid giving “mispronunciations” to Wictionaries. That is similar to vandalism on a Wiktionary if the reader doesn't know that it is hearing a bad pronunciation and believes that it is “native speaker”:<br />
<br />
''Some suggestions:''<br />
1) Would it be possible to name the audios files to specify if the speaker is a native or not? For example, if a French speaker records the word "maison" it could be named '''"maison-fr-native.ogg"''' . If a language learner records the same word : '''"maison-fr-learner.ogg"'''<br />
<br />
2) A radical way to address the issue would be to only allow to record in one's native language. Of course, users could change it, but strong warnings could be added and always remind people to record only their native language. Forvo seems to take this approach.<br />
<br />
It might be valuable for Linguists to have recordings of non-native speakers to study their accent features in an L-2 Language. However, in my humble opinion the pronunciations added to Wiktionary should be only native speakers and bots should have a way to differentiate them.<br />
<br />
Link to the German Wiktionary discussion about LinguaLibre: <br />
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Teestube#:~:text=von%20technischer%20seite%20gibt%20es%20keinem%20problem%2C%20zwei%20bots%20auf%20de.wiktionary%20arbeiten%20zu%20lassen.<br />
:Hi, this depends on the Wikitionary policy, and it could be different from a language to another one. Anyway, it is already possible to select only recordings done by native speaker. To do that, the speaker has to fill the {{P|16}} property ith the value {{Q|15}} (see for example {{Q|466}}). Other values for {{P|16}} are given [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q5|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sursilvan ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
[[Special:Contributions/Franz.Roos.1955|User:Franz.Roos.1955]] made 2 recordings in [[:en:wp:Sursilvan]] : rauna ([[Q689785]]), tschitta ([[Q689786]]). Sursilvan has no iso code. Do we have a procedure for such languages ? (I forgot if the case already shown up). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:There is not issue. It simply uses the Wikidata identifier when there is no ISO code. Se for example {{Q|1186}}. To record in such languages, we have to create an item for this language/dialect on Lingua Libre, and this is already done for {{Q|74905}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Thank Pamputt for the clarification. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[commons:commons:structured data]] ==<br />
<br />
I've been very pleased with LL's tooling, that does so much of the process of uploading to Commons, sensible naming, description-writing, and categorisation for me; however, I have an idea for an additional step LL could automate. This is in Commons' no-longer-so-new structured data section, which manifests (among other ways) as a tab on the file page.<br />
<br />
As an example of what could be automatically added to a file's datastore, there is a property called 'audio transcription' which serves a similar role to Commons' TimedText subtitle functionality (silly example: [[commons:TimedText:051226-kakapo-billbooming.ogg.en.srt]]) but for shorter clips -- in other words, seemingly designed with applications like LinguaLibre in mind.<br />
<br />
Since these are of the so-called 'monolingual text' datatype, the source language can be specified (or where not part of the main set of languages Wikimedia uses, the special code 'mis' is used and 'language of work or name' used as a qualifier) at the same time as the actual text that is being spoken, which LL has access to since the audio file started out as a text prompt!<br />
<br />
What think y'all? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 04:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Arlo Barnes}} there is [[phab:T239272|Phabricator ticket]] about this topic. Currently there are not yet all properties on Wikidata to fit all Lingua Libre properties. For example, I [[d:Wikidata:Property proposal/language level|proposed to create]] a property for the language level of a speaker but it did not get enough support. SO I guess, we should first list all properties we would like to add on SDC. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [Feature Request] Play next sound automatically while checking recordings ==<br />
<br />
After recording sounds it is important to check them to verify their quality. However, it is very tiring to record 380 words and afterwards have to click 380 times on the ''“Next button”'' while checking them.<br />
<br />
'''After recording, would it be possible to add a button to "Play next sound automatically" ?''' [https://i.imgur.com/XwC34pj.png Screenshot Here] [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, it is already [[phab:T218372|tracked on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "How to use Lingua Libre for your language learning" ==<br />
<br />
I recently found a "new" way to benefit from the sounds on Lingua Libre. I would suggest that it could be advertised on the Lingua Libre main website and on the Wikipedia in French/English:<br />
* [[:en:wp:GoldenDict|GoldenDict]] is a FOSS Dictionary application very valuable for language learners. <br />
<br />
A way to benefit from Lingua Libre recordings is to download the datasets, unzip them and "load" the sounds on GoldenDict (as Sound Directories. [https://i.imgur.com/9avJDgS.png Screenshot here]). In such a way, users have easily an offline "Pronunciation Dictionary". It is very easy to do. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/axRHruk.png screenshot] of how it looks to GoldenDict the French word "fuir". Another example [https://i.imgur.com/Rq0nQCt.png here].<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre sounds can be used with GoldenDict OFFLINE. That is a huge advantage in developing countries, where language learners often do not have reliable internet connection.<br />
<br />
''It would be valuable to create a description on the Lingua Libre website about'' '''"How to use Lingua Libre sounds for your language learning"''' .<br />
<br />
There it would be possible to describe how to use the audios offline with GoldenDict, etc. If more methods are developed (Anki add-on), better GUI, Android App, etc. they could be explained there.--[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:1) '''Reuse of datasets :''' Yes ! Dataset download and reuse must be showcasted and strengthened. I think a "Reuses gallery" page could be created, with screenshot and minimal how-to for GoldenDict, Anki and others.<br />
:2) '''Anki:''' You are the 4th or 5th contributor to rise the need for an Anki add-on. We need to do something on this side, yes. It's more than 1~2 days work and too big for a volunteer work, so we need to apply for a grant. I'am looking in and mapping our options at the moment ({{tl|Grants table}}). At one point we have to jump in and design a project, yes.<br />
:3) For '''e-learning app''', a 5k€ project was designed by myself a year ago. The funding by local regional government was declined, but it could easily be refreshed.<br />
:We have to redesign some projects and apply in early 2022. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::The core question is the Human Resources. <br />
::'''*Daily routines*''' keeps WikiLucas, Pamputt, Poslovitch and myself –aka the community-side contributors— busy maintaining the place, welcoming and guiding new users, cleaning pages, etc. We are now quite smooth, successful and stable on this side.<br />
::To '''*push forward*''' on developments, UI, tools, e-learning, communication, grants, we each have one or two side projects in mind, pushing those <u>''slowly''</u>. But as always in FOSS projects the task ahead is much larger and we could achieve much more with more human resources.<br />
::'''Overall''', it's possible we are at a new turning right now. As things are stable, with road maps available, '''we just need 1 to 3 new coordinators and communicants contributors to tip the dynamic into forward-offensive mode''', with communication therefor new arrivals, new speakers, new devs, new coordinators and really push forward with new events/workshop, funds and SMART features. <br />
::@[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]], I'am currently writing down structuring "community how to" to ease new contributor's jumping in (see [[LinguaLibre:Roles]], [[LinguaLibre:Workshops]], {{tl|Grants table}}). You are doing a nice push on communication (It's FOSS) and with your questions you are mapping out Lili's needs. Pamputt and WikiLucas are following our progresses. All this is pretty interesting. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would like to work on the "Public Relations" Department of LinguaLibre! - EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) : '''Any PR campaign would fail miserably if there is no search function.''' I explain the reasons at the end of this section: [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]]<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 23:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Sound good :) Your outreach to YouTubers and popular FOSS blogs is spot on.<br />
::I am back from a wikibreak, I am cleaning up some last pages, then since the maintenance side is stable I would like to focus my energy on projects design –recording rare languages, technology, PR campaign– and associated grant requests to secure funding and the actual realization of those visions. We can collaborate. You lead on the PR : design your campaign. I can review and help it to fit some Grants formats. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I created a new wiki page in the "events" section of a "PR Campaign for 2022". Please visit [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]] and participate in the discussion with new ideas. EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) I will NOT contribute anymore to a PR campaign. the reasons are explained as comment on the relevant section [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 21:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating a LL catgory for a dialect ==<br />
<br />
Would be grateful if someone could tell me if it's possible to create a LL category for a dialect?<br />
<br />
We're working in Konkani, which has its own (but small) Wikipedia at http://gom.wikipedia.org Under Konkani, there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. <br />
<br />
Would like to create a category for Saxtti (the Salcete dialect of Konkani). This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. Also, it would allow the recordings of many others which might have already been done in Konkani as a how.<br />
<br />
Question: How do we create space for the dialects of a language? <br />
<br />
Thanks very much, in advance! --[[User:Fredericknoronha|Fredericknoronha]] ([[User talk:Fredericknoronha|talk]]) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello {{ping|Fredericknoronha}} and welcome to Lingua Libre. I imported {{Q|700683}} (gom) as it was not on Lingua Libre yet. On Lingua Libre, dialects are treated the same way as languages. You can create an element for your dialect on Wikidata (example for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35359 auvergnat dialect]) and tell us once it is ready, so that we can import it on Lingua Libre with an admin tool. You can also directly create an element for your dialect on Lingua Libre, following the steps described at [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Add_a_new_language|Help:Add a new language]] and taking example of {{Q|1186}}. Don't hesitate to ping an admin if you have any questions.<br />
:All the best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::''« there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. […] This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. »''<br />
::If the writing are similar but only the pronunciation differs depending on where the speaker comes from, it looks like different accents.<br />
::Recordings are specific to a word, a language and a speaker. Which means me recording in French the word "bonjour" will be one audio file on Lili. WikiLucas can record in French the same word "bonjour", it will create an other audio file on Lili. My recording(s), since i come from the South West, will carry the southern accent. Recordings by WikiLucas, who lives 700km East of me, will cary the Lyon area accent. Lingualibre will store 2 recordings, one per user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Hello {{u|Fredericknoronha}}, I have imported {{Q|701734}} so that you can now record words in that dialect. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Feedback about Lingua Libre by Professor Carol Genetti, PhD ==<br />
<br />
'''Dear Members of Lingua Libre,<br />
'''<br />
I am pleased to share a message from Professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Genetti Carol Genetti], a linguist and leading expert in endangered languages. Professor Genetti is author of one of the best books in the field of Linguistics called "How Languages Work". Her vast knowledge and experience are extremely valuable and after reviewing Lingua Libre she said:<br />
<br />
''Thank you for contacting me and letting me know about this initiative. It is an interesting idea. I especially like the multilingual menus -- very helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Are you aware of [https://www.endangeredlanguages.com/ this website], hosted by the University of Hawaii (and, I believe, funded by Google). So one thing that occurs to me is the proliferation of such sites. How will people in an endangered-language community find out about their options, and then make an informed choice about which of these online resources will be best over time for their communities? Should such efforts cross-reference each other?''<br />
<br />
''My second thought has to do with longevity. It takes a significant commitment to support a site like this over time. The challenge is having someone who can keep such sites funded, working, organized, relevant, and engaging users over time. How will you make sure that the data will be available in 10, 50, 150 years? Maybe you get that automatically by being associated with Wikipedia. If so, state that. Also, there should be a clear statement of how such data might be used, and by whom, so speakers know that if they record a wordlist, someone might use if for some purpose without their permission (is that right?).<br />
''<br />
''I'm sorry to have to bring a down-to-earth message to the inspiration and passion for endangered languages that has clearly fueled this work, but having seen other initiatives stumble in this way, I wanted to be sure that you are thinking about this. Speakers will be entrusting you with such valuable pieces of their lives and their cultures. How will you safeguard this over time? Let people know.<br />
''<br />
''Those issues aside, here are a couple of other comments:''<br />
<br />
* There should be a statement targeted for speakers of endangered languages - why would they want to do this? What is the value for them and their communities? What will happen to the recordings? etc.''<br />
* Will you provide speakers with suggestions for what vocabulary to record, e.g. greetings, colors, verb forms?''<br />
* It would be helpful if it was clear from the large list of languages which ones have recordings. Maybe put those in a different color font?''<br />
* It would be helpful to include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language. Otherwise, someone's grandkids coming to this in 30 years will not know what the words mean.''<br />
* Do you want to move beyond single words to a piece of connected discourse, such as a short poem or story, a song, or the reading of some common text (such as a sentence from the UN Declaration for Linguistic Rights)?''<br />
* Should there be a means to flag inappropriate content?''<br />
<br />
''I hope that you find this helpful. And I'm so glad you liked my book! It is lovely to hear that people have found it helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Carol Genetti''<br />
''Vice Provost for Graduate and Postdoctoral Programs''<br />
''NYU Abu Dhabi''<br />
''(she/her/hers)''<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, this is some interesting feedback.<br />
:* "What will happen to the recordings?": Our homepage lacks such important information. We should plan a redesign for 2022 (inspired by the homepage of [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/ Common Voice]?) so that we finally have a homepage that properly explains what Lingua Libre is and can do.<br />
:* "Suggestions of things to record?": This already exists. They're called Lists. We have some pending improvements on that matter (easier to find and contribute to, etc.)<br />
:* "Show which languages have recordings": The datasets page could help, but I guess it would be interesting to put that on an easy-to-find page (again, like [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/languages Common Voice's languages page]?)<br />
:* "Include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language": we only support "transcription" for now.<br />
:** How could we even "link" the recordings to translations? (Lexemes? Plain text?)<br />
:** Who would have to do that? (the locutor? a dedicated team of contributors?)<br />
:** Where would it be done? (in the RecordWizard?)<br />
:** -> That's an interesting thing to think about, but might be slightly out of scope right now<br />
:* "Sentences, stories, songs...?": Yes, indeed. The Record Wizard is already able to do that (with some config tweaks that have to be done by the locutor), but it would be great to streamline this further. Dedicated UI, ability to record an audiobook (or Wikipedia, Wikisource, Wikinews article) as a mixture of sentences that can be stored locally before being all merged together into one audio file sent to Commons, ability for multiple contributors to work on the same book/article... That's something we should also discuss with the [https://librivox.org/ Librivox] folks: they use Audacity so far, but they might be interested in a tool that's better suited to their needs.<br />
:* "flag inappropriate content?": My insight is focused on technical stuff. This sounds more like some editorial guidelines that would have to be debated by the community.<br />
:* "'''longevity'''?": Should Lingua Libre vanish tomorrow, the audio recordings are not lost. They're all stored on Wikimedia Commons, and that makes them as "immortal" as files stored on hard disks, SSDs, CDs or magnetic bands and mirrored half a dozen times around the world can be. However, I can't say much about our Wikibase, which, at the current time, '''is the only place where all the recordings and locutor-related metadata is stored'''. That's a serious single point of failure. There are no dumps and therefore no mirrorring. We'll definitely have to discuss it with Wikimedia France and the Tech Team.<br />
:Hopefully my answers are clear and comprehensible. I'm pleased to have received feedback from Pr. Genetti. Now it's our turn to take matters in our hands! --[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to delete lists? ==<br />
:{{Done}} <br />
Hello, recently I completed some lists. Now everything is done and those lists are needless. Is there any possibility to delete lists? Greetings --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} hello, admins can delete those lists. The lists you created are [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?target=Onkel+Tomm&namespace=142&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions here]. Which ones should I delete ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Hello Yug, please delete all 8 lists, because they are all finally finished. Thanks. --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 13:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} We are clean ! thank for asking, it keeps the place clean :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Case study ==<br />
Hello all, I noticed a file upload which gather interesting use cases.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Item || Label || Speaker || Account || Filename || Category<br />
|-<br />
| [[Q709231]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q709231&oldid=689510 arch.]) || "Ingenieur" || [[Q674858]] 'fleur' || User:Beat_Ruest || [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] || [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest]]<br />
|-<br />
| — || Mispelling of "Ingénieur" || – || – || Carries the misspelling || Category page was not created, therefor virtually "lost" to Wikimedia Commons and [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
* Question 1: How do we handle mispelling ? I assume renaming ALL THREE of the [[Q709231]]'s label AND Property:P3 'recording' AND Wikimedia file [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] rename. Is that ok or will it break something ?<br />
* Question 2: Category should be automatically created. How do we go for this ? I assume a request on [[LinguaLibre:Bot]]<br />
* Question 3: What about the category by *speaker/voice* ([[Q709231]] 'fleur'), which curently doesn't exist, and which can have multiple speakers with the same name 'fleur' ?<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Question 1: it is a good start. I guess, we need to fix it both on Lingua Libre and on Wikimedia Commons<br />
: Question 2: you speak about categories on Wikimedia Commons? If so, I guess a bot can do it (Lingua Libre Bot or another one).<br />
: Question 3: actually the speaker is identified as "fleur (Beat Ruest)". Only one locutor of Beat Ruest can use the nickname "fleur".<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Q1, Q2 agree.<br />
::Q3 : {{ping|Pamputt}} check the categories on [[:commons:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} you mean the problem is [[:c:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] is categorized in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest" and not in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by fleur (Beat Ruest)" or similar name? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, we dont have categorization by '''speaker''' "Fleur (Beat Ruest)". Low importance, but could be a feature request. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gestion de doublons ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]'' (new, needs review!)<br />
<br />
Bonsoir !<br />
<br />
Il y a-t-il une gestion de doublons dans LL pour les mots d'une même langue ? [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 13:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]], si un même locuteur enregistre le même mot alors l'enregistrement précédent sera écrasé (un même locuteur ne peut enregistrer qu'une seule fois le même mot). En revanche, rien n'empêche l'enregistrement d'un même mot par plusieurs locuteurs et locutrices différentes, c'est même un des objectifs de Lingua Libre : mettre en lumière la diversité des prononciations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] : Comment sont alors gérés les homographes non homophones ? ^^ [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]] ([[User talk:Totodu74|talk]]) 00:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Bonjour [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], il est possible d'ajouter des indications entre parenthèses (cette information est stockée à l'aide de {{P|18}}). Voir par exemple {{Q|1685}} et {{Q|1686}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
:::@[[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], salut, la question des homographes est en partie résolue dans nos langues africaines qui sont essentiellement des langues à tons. --[[User:Rçag|Rçag]] ([[User talk:Rçag|talk]]) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Rçag, could you explain your solution a bit so we learn from it.<br />
:{{Ping|BamLifa|Rçag|Pamputt|Totodu74}} the page [[Help:Homographs]] is there to gather best practices. It's new, review and edits welcome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Comment changer de pseudonyme ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, sur les projets de Wikimedia, mon pseudonyme est Manjiro91 (et anciennement GamissimoYT), comment change-t-on de pseudonyme ?<br />
[[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|GamissimoYT}}. Lingua Libre utilise le même pseudo que celui qui est en utilisation sur Wikimedia Commons. Donc si vous voulez utiliser le pesudonyme Manjiro91, déconnectez-vous de Lingua Libre, puis de Wikimedia Commons. Ensuite, connectez vous à Commons avec le pseudo Manjiro91 et enfin reconnectez vous à Lingua Libre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
{{Notif|Pamputt}} Mon pseudonyme Wikimedia Commons est Manjiro91 (anciennement GamissimoYT mais le changement de pseudonyme ne s'effectue pas sur LiLi. [[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|GamissimoYT}}, tu as bien fait les connexions/déconnexions dans l'ordre que j'ai indiqué ? Si tu es sûr que tu es connecté avec Manjiro91 sur Wikimedia Commons, alors tu peux essayer de te déconnecter de Lingua Libre et te reconnecter dans la foulée. Essayer de vider le cache du navigateur peut peut-être aidé aussi. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging of items about languages ==<br />
<br />
Hi y'all,<br />
<br />
For the record, I just merge a couple of items about the same language:<br />
* {{Q|52071}} in {{Q|73}}<br />
* {{Q|139228}} in {{Q|183}}<br />
* {{Q|170137}} in {{Q|359}}<br />
* {{Q|683869}} in {{Q|418}}<br />
* {{Q|646169}} in {{Q|6714}}<br />
* {{Q|570518}} in {{Q|52069}}<br />
* {{Q|538624}} in {{Q|84030}}<br />
* {{Q|646173}} in {{Q|390314}}<br />
* {{Q|646161}} in {{Q|502754}}<br />
* {{Q|570510}} in {{Q|489393}}<br />
<br />
I detected them with this SPARQL query: <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql"><br />
SELECT ?idWD (COUNT(?item) AS ?compte) (GROUP_CONCAT(?item) AS ?items) WHERE {<br />
?item prop:P2 entity:Q4 ; prop:P12 ?idWD .<br />
}<br />
GROUP BY ?idWD<br />
HAVING ( ?compte > 1 )<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
Ping {{ping|WikiLucas00}} it seems you are responsible for some of them...<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks VIGNERON for finding them and cleaning it. Now what to do with recording items that use the doublon language item (for example with [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q52071|Duala]]). I think we must modify {{P|4}} for all recording items so that languages are not counted twice and also to clean up the database (there are also transcription problems for items listed in the Duala example). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you {{ping|VIGNERON}} for pointing these out. As you can see, most of them were not created manually but using the tool (the pages wheighted circa 4kB, with labels in many languages). It seems that the Lingua Importer tool has (or had?) a problem, but I could not reproduce it (trying to import languages that are already in LL wikibase).<br/> During last summer's hackathon we talked a bit about languages in our wikibase, but I can't remember why we need to have language elements in our Wikibase, and not just use the existing base of WikiData 🤔 — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MediaWiki customizations of LinguaLibre ==<br />
<br />
Love the MediaWiki skin of LinguaLibre and I am curious of skin and customizations made. Who are the authors? (can not see credits) --[[User:Zblace|Zblace]] ([[User talk:Zblace|talk]]) 10:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The skin is known as BlueLL. The source code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL github]. It has been developed by Wikimedia France in 2020. That's said, it is true there is no licence and credits on Github. I will ask to {{u|Adélaïde Calais WMFr}} if she remember anything so that I can the missing informations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New property: translation ==<br />
Hello, I've created {{P|38}} to be used in case there is no writing in the recording language but instead a translation in the vehicular language. See for example what I did [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q212431&type=revision&diff=743039&oldid=191330 here] and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q58994&type=revision&diff=743044&oldid=580313 there]. Do you agree with that? Any comment? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:It's a good idea! Many users tend to add a translation as they find it important for other people to have. It will also be handy for cases like your second example, where we only have the translation but not the transcription of the source language: we will be able to query the base to see all audios of a language that have a translation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::I am thinking about a way to populate automatically this property via the Record Wizard. Currently, it seems that the Record Wizard populates {{P|18}} when something is written between brackets (see {{Q|1685}} for example but I have not checked recently). So, if we modify the Record Wizard code, it is possible to recognize this is a translation in another language and so to populate {{P|38}}. But I would like to be sure to propose the best way to do it before asking for such development. The idea is to be managed automatically (or at least not completely manually). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 00:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone ! <br />
<br/>This week, Wikimedia France is preparing its budget for the fiscal year to come : July 2022 to June 2023. If there are things you would like to see done or to do with our help on Lingua Libre, please share it on this page : https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection <br />
<br/>Have a great week-end ! --[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 17:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
: {{u|marreromarco}} Thank you for your suggestions. However, I have some reservations about "Add function to "Request" a Pronunciation to Native Speakers" at this current stage for two reasons. First, this will require quite a bit of moderation to correct requests for grammar and spelling (e.g. HASBAND) as well as remove terrible requests. This will place a large burden on a few users and can easily lead to questionable decisions by moderators. Second, Forvo is flooded with requests that are either overly specific (e.g. "He came back from abyss and won the tie.") and, therefore, likely benefit only one user. IMHO, Rdrg109 proposal to focus on providing pronunciations for entries on the various wiktionaries is a better approach to building up the LL at this point. It will provide a solid foundation for users to find any word in LL. It might be a better time to open up LL to general requests once this project is completed and the community has grown. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 15:49, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to get the city country lablel in sparql (Python) ==<br />
<br />
I'm working on an Anki extension for LL, but I'm having a little trouble writing the sparql query. In short, I want to be able to get the city and country for a recording in LL. However, when I query P14, I get the link to the item instead of 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'} or 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'}. Instead I hope to get city:"" and country "France" for the first query city:"Paris" and country:"France" for the second one. Any ideas? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Languageseeker}} thanks for your work on a Anki extension. Could you post here the query you have now? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{u|Pamputt}} . The query that I'm using is a very lightly modified version of the bot query. <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql">ENDPOINT = "https://lingualibre.org/bigdata/namespace/wdq/sparql"<br />
API = "https://lingualibre.org/api.php"<br />
BASEQUERY = """<br />
SELECT DISTINCT<br />
?record ?file ?transcription ?recorded<br />
?languageIso ?languageQid ?languageWMCode<br />
?residence ?learningPlace ?languageLevel<br />
?speaker ?linkeduser<br />
WHERE {<br />
?record prop:P2 entity:Q2 .<br />
?record prop:P3 ?file .<br />
?record prop:P4 ?language .<br />
?record prop:P5 ?speaker .<br />
?record prop:P6 ?recorded .<br />
?record prop:P7 ?transcription .<br />
?language prop:P13 ?languageIso.<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel .<br />
?speaker prop:P11 ?linkeduser .<br />
?speaker prop:P14 ?residence .<br />
?speaker llp:P4 ?speakerLanguagesStatement .<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llv:P4 ?speakerLanguages .<br />
OPTIONAL { ?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel . }<br />
FILTER( ?speakerLanguages = ?language) .<br />
SERVICE wikibase:label {<br />
bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" .<br />
}<br />
#filters<br />
}"""</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
:: Currently, I'm running it with filters = "" because it seems that a query for a single term takes around 70s, while fetching a single transcription takes about 145 seconds. My plan is to group the results by transcription and then write that into a json file to avoid the costly query. Basically, I need the speaker name, the term, their country, their city, the ISO code of the language, date created, and the filename, languageLevel. <br />
<br />
:: For example, for the term un chien, the json would look like:<br />
{ "term": {"un chien": {"speaker": "Julien Baley", "language": "fra", "city": "", "country": "France", "recorded": "2020-11-27", "filename": "LL-Q150_(fra)-Julien_Baley-un_chien.wav", "languageLevel": "Q15"}}} [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user ==<br />
<br />
I wrote a [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader python program] that downloads all the files created by one user. For video files, it downloads the full webm. For audio files, the default is to download the wave file. However, for audio files, you can optionally choose either mp3 or ogg files. Currently, the configuration requires a minor modification of lluad.py. If there is strong demand, I will write a command line parser for it. Please report any bugs or errors on the github page. Feature requests are welcome. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=763358LinguaLibre:Chat room2022-05-21T16:32:27Z<p>Languageseeker: /* How to get the city country lablel in sparql (Python) */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
{{Lang-CR}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
{{LL:Chat room/FAQ}}<br />
__TOC__<br />
<!-- **** DO NOT EDIT CONTENT ABOVE **** --><br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publish on Wikimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just tested, but my records are not published on Commons. My tests: on Firefox, then on Chrome, with 50, then with 1 expression (s), with license CC3.0-BY-SA and CC1.0. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 06:51, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[[File:LiLi April 2021 - Publish on Wikimedia Commons.png|thumb|Problème de publication sur Wikimedia Commons]]<br />
:[[phab:T281636]] —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 07:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Usually I have the same with the first two recordings in a session. Then I can upload them again at the end. Try again with more recordings, and using "retry filed upload" button. [[User:Poemat|Poemat]] ([[User talk:Poemat|talk]]) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: Yup, I had this bug many times. (I say "had" because I don't remember having encountered it after the fire incident.) Just don't give up and it should be published eventually. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::(As of 3 May 2021 and as I checked, I'm not aware of any code changes ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/commits/master history]) which may have of affected this. Seb35 made some other code change this same day.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
I add a user who has the same problem: {{u|Le Commissaire}}. —[[User:Eihel-LiLi|Eihel-LiLi]] ([[User talk:Eihel-LiLi|talk]]) 15:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Bonjour {{ping|Seb35}}, Faudrait voir avec {{u|Le Commissaire}} si le problème persiste aussi (avant de clore le ticket Phab. Sincères salutations. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 10:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::J’ai mis un message à Le Commissaire sur sa page de discussion.<br />
::::::Le problème que vous avez eu était spécifique à votre compte, c’est peut-être arrivé à d’autres personnes mais ça semble assez rare. Aussi, à partir du moment où un utilisateur a réussi à faire un envoi vers Commons, alors c’est un problème différent du vôtre ([[:phabricator:T275957|celui-ci, qui ressemble mais l’erreur est intermittente]]). Plus globalement, il faudrait que le message d’erreur soit explicite plutôt que d’aller à chercher dans la console du navigateur, je vais ouvrir un ticket Phabricator en ce sens. [[User:Seb35|Seb35]] ([[User talk:Seb35|talk]]) 10:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exclusion lists ==<br />
If anyone uses the regularly updated [[user:Olafbot|Olafbot's]] lists of wanted words ([[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]], etc.), and spotted an item that should be removed without recording, you can use the brand new exclusion lists to remove it. For example on the list [[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]] there was the word "abandonar", which apparently doesn't belong to the contemporary French corpus. Having added it on the exclusion list (here: [[user:Olafbot/exclusion list/Fra]]) the bot knows this item should never appear in French lists it maintains, and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries&diff=619214&oldid=606068 removes it] during the next update. <br />
<br />
Each "Lemmas without audio" list ({{Olafbot-wikt}}) has a corresponding exclusion list ({{Olafbot-exclusion}}). I hope it will help.<br />
<br />
Normally I would add a link to the exclusion list in a description of each lemmas list, but unfortunately, Lingua Libre engine doesn't allow adding any kind of comments or descriptions to lists, so this ad is the only way to spread a word about the new functionality. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}} Thank you so much for this useful new function! Indeed, the Record Wizard does not yet understand comments, categories nor templates on List pages, but this will be considered for future updates. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 18:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ajout d'une nouvelle langue ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour !<br />
<br />
Je souhaite ajouter la langue Q3196953 mais en suivant la [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Help:Add_a_new_language/fr procédure], je ne vois pas LinguaImporter. Quelqu'un peut-il me dire pourquoi?<br />
<br />
Cdt,<br />
BamLifa<br />
: {{ping|BamLifa}} c'est parce que tu n'es pas administrateur. Je viens d'importer le {{Q|646152}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, merci beaucoup pour cette précision. Si cette option n'est réservée qu'aux admins, pourquoi en parler dans la doc sans cette précision ? En plus, vue la multitude des langues que nous avons qui n'existent pas encore chez Lingua libre, ne pensez-vous pas que vous devriez simplifier cette tâche ? J'ai encore une autre langue à ajouter, le Bira (bila). [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 12:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|BamLifa}} c'est indiqué sur cette page (c'est même le titre de la section (Outil pour les administrateurs)). Je ne me rappelle pas pourquoi c'est réservé aux admins mais ça limite au moins les vandales qui voudraient importer des choses qui ne sont pas des langues. Bref, j'ai importé le {{Q|656403}} et le {{Q|656404}}. Si ce ne sont pas les bonnes langues, peux-tu me donner le code ISO 639-3 correspondant (ou au moins l'identifiant Wikidata) ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Merci beaucoup. [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 05:34, 22 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lists still don't work properly ==<br />
<br />
{{Ping|WikiLucas00}} {{Ping|Poslovitch}} It's better than [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Lists_stopped_working|before]], but still, sometimes the Record Wizard hangs when a list is chosen.<br />
Then I have to reload the page, and try again. Usually the second or the third time of trying the same list, it starts to work.<br />
Probably a race condition. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}}It also happens to me sometimes, but I think that it could be related to the button for removing words you already recorded. When you load a list of words you never recorded (typically Olafbot's lists), ticking the button seems to kill the loading. Best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 10:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you. Indeed, with this switch unchecked everything seems to work. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 16:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liste des mots à prononcer ==<br />
<br />
Salut ! Existe-t-il une page où des mots peuvent être ajoutés pour qu'un bon samaritain puisse parler ? [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 11:30, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|Vivaelcelta}}, les listes sont faites pour cela. Vous pouvez [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Create_your_own_lists|créer votre propre liste]] qui pourra ensuite être enregistrée par n'importe qui. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci {{u|Pamputt}}. — [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 22:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Projet Outils pour la patrouille ==<br />
:''See [[LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol assistance tool prototyping project]].''<br />
{{LangSwitch<br />
|fr=Salut,<br />
<br />
cette semaine commence un projet menés par des étudiants des formations IARF-RODECO de l’Université Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier concernant le prototypage d’outils de patrouille. Je suis, assisté par Adélaïde Calais, le superviseur de ce projet. Les étudiants sont en informatique avec une spécialisation en intelligence artificielle. L’idée est de leur faire prototyper (voire développer) des outils pour aider la patrouille de Lingua Libre en détectant automatiquement toutes sortes de problèmes. Nous avons déjà identifier quelques problèmes : clics, grésillements, bruits parasites et mauvaises prononciations (libellés et enregistrements pas raccord).<br />
<br />
Et nous avons besoin de la communauté sur deux points : <br />
# y a-t-il d’autres problèmes auxquels vous pensez ?<br />
# nous avons besoin, pour que les étudiants puissent travailler, d’enregistrements avec défauts. Si vous les avez réenregistrés, c’est pas grave, Commons a un historique. N’hésitez pas à nous communiquer les enregistrements qui ont ou avaient des défauts !<br />
<br />
Enfin, j’ai créé une page de projet accessible [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|ici]] (page traduite).<br />
<br />
(Si certain·es peuvent traduire ce message en anglais, c’est super cool.)<br />
<br />
À+,<br />
|en=Hi,<br />
<br />
This week, a project lead by student of University Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier is starting. It will be about the prototyping of patrolling tools. I supervise this project, assisted by Adélaïde Calais. The students study computer science with a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. The aim is to have them prototyping (or even developing) tools to help Lingua Libre's patrol, by automatically detecting any kind of mistake/error related to the files. We already identified a few types of mistakes: clicks, crackles, pops and labelling issues (wrong label/wrong language).<br />
<br />
We need the community on two points : <br />
# are there other problems you could think of? <br />
# we need some recordings having issues, in order for the students to be able to work. If you already recorded them again, it is not a big deal, Commons has a file history. Don't hesitate to provide us the files that have or had problems.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I created a project page, available [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|here]].<br />
<br />
See you,}}<br />
[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 09:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], Translated page —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 19:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], [[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde]], could you specify the dates for this project ? <br />
::Also, were your point 1 and two answered by the community somewhere ? (If not I could give it a try) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug}} Hi, I updated the project page with the dates. And I didn’t get any answers to my questions. [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 11:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rashidun Caliphate ==<br />
<br />
Hello {{ping|Zinou2go}},<br />
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q13955_(ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة_الراشدة.wav LL-Q13955 (ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة الراشدة.wav] is problematic (currently {{Q|Q204439}} on LiLi): it contains several cuts (clicks). I proposed the file for deletion in Commons. The recordings seem to be working better, could you record Rashidun Caliphate again? I didn't check the other records, but they are likely to have "clicks" as well. Also, can an admin delete this item on LiLi, please? Cordially. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Eihel}} Please do not nominate files for deletion before asking for the speaker to record it again and waiting a while for their answer. Also, these recordings will come useful for the team currently working on the audio issues of Lingua Libre, so we'd better not delete them (I thought you read my messages on Discord about this). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{Ping|WikiLucas00}}, J'ai enlevé la suppression sur Commons. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Code of Conduct ==<br />
Hi everyone, I just noticed again MediaWiki's [[:mw:Code of Conduct]] (2015) and Wikimedia Foundation's [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02). Back in 2015, 0x010C included the first one as a condition to contribute to [https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard RecordWizard's codebase]. As far as I know, Lili.org and its community, so far, [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Code+of+conduct has no Code of Conduct]. We may be ''implicitely'' binded by it or by some Wikimedia France's Code of Conduct, but it would be cleaner to ''explicitly'' adopt one and display it here, in written. We could therefor do the following :<br />
# Short round to confirm with have nothing in place so far.<br />
# Vote for 2 months to adopt the most recent [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02)<br />
# Copy the text into [[LinguaLibre:Universal Code of Conduct]].<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Pre-discussion ===<br />
Do we already have a Code of Conduct binding LinguaLibre ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Vote ===<br />
''Are you for or against adopting the [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021) as a code of conduct for LinguaLibre's community ?''<br><br />
''Possible votes : {{tl|support}} • {{tl|weak support}} • {{tl|weak oppose}} • {{tl|oppose}}''<br />
* {{Support}} (proposer) — better to be explicit, have a framework in place, just to be clear to all on where we stand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre website should be more appealing to Language Learners ==<br />
:''See also [https://forvo.com Forvo.com].''<br />
It would be useful if LinguaLibre follows the example of Forvo to increase the number of language learners interested in the Project.<br />
<br />
Forvo.com has a way of displaying the information that engage users and makes it very easy to find pronunciations. <br />
<br />
For example, if someone wants to learn how to pronounce "Honoré de Balzac" in French, it would be faster to find the audio on Forvo than on LinguaLibre. Also, Forvo displays the data in a way more appealing to language learners:<br />
* https://forvo.com/search/Honoré_de_Balzac/<br />
* https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Honoré+de+Balzac<br />
'''Would it be possible to improve the way that data is displayed on LinguaLibre to make it more appealing to Language Learners ?'''<br />
''In such way, the number of active users recording audios would increase significantly.'' -- [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]]<br />
:Some people previously reported such "issue". There is a [[phab:T252319|ticket]] on Phabricator to keep this in mind. However, the priority is currently given to develop patrol tools for Lingua Libre and we do not expect to see major improvements related to the audio brosing in the coming months (at least if we have no more external developers). I think it is like this because Lingua Libre has been though so that it helps for recording, not for listening; the second is let to the other Wikimedia projects, mainly Wiktionaries et Wikidata. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::YES ! There are oral discussions and proposals in this direction, but LinguaLibre being a volunteers-based team, we are moving slowly. Forvo is a for-profit entity, it locks the copyright and resale of recordings made on its platform to the speaker-creator and to themselves, to then sell those recordings with a profit. They therefor have money and swift decision-making to sustain their UI/UX efforts. We are shorter on those sides. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Sound Library's forking and hacking ===<br />
'''On the [[LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library|Sound Library]] side''', I was able to duplicate/fork it, which allows to start hack its CSS. Copy those codes into your own namespace :<br />
* [[User:Yug/common.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/common.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]] → [[Special:MyPage/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]]<br />
In those codes, you then have to replace all occurrences of "Yug" by your username, and it's should work. You can start hacking toward a more elegant interface. Note: the JS copy is in your *personal* JS and has a "stop" condition so the various JS instances won't fight. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allow recording only in the user's Native Language to avoid passing "mispronunciations" to Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
I started a discussion on the German Wiktionary because some words on LinguaLibre are not available on the DeWikt. The German Community told me that LinguaLibre adds words into Commons, but the Bot only accepts audios from “few” trusted users using a filter. <br />
<br />
The English and German Wiktionaries use a bot called "DerbethBot" to add audios from Commons. However, the English Wiktionary community asked to block Lingua Libre's recordings because there were non-native speakers recording audios and the Bot had no way to differentiate them from Native speakers. After the audios were introduced in the English Wiktionary they had to forbid adding audios from LinguaLibre:<br />
<br />
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2020/July#Labeling_non-native_audio<br />
<br />
I believe that it is necessary to avoid giving “mispronunciations” to Wictionaries. That is similar to vandalism on a Wiktionary if the reader doesn't know that it is hearing a bad pronunciation and believes that it is “native speaker”:<br />
<br />
''Some suggestions:''<br />
1) Would it be possible to name the audios files to specify if the speaker is a native or not? For example, if a French speaker records the word "maison" it could be named '''"maison-fr-native.ogg"''' . If a language learner records the same word : '''"maison-fr-learner.ogg"'''<br />
<br />
2) A radical way to address the issue would be to only allow to record in one's native language. Of course, users could change it, but strong warnings could be added and always remind people to record only their native language. Forvo seems to take this approach.<br />
<br />
It might be valuable for Linguists to have recordings of non-native speakers to study their accent features in an L-2 Language. However, in my humble opinion the pronunciations added to Wiktionary should be only native speakers and bots should have a way to differentiate them.<br />
<br />
Link to the German Wiktionary discussion about LinguaLibre: <br />
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Teestube#:~:text=von%20technischer%20seite%20gibt%20es%20keinem%20problem%2C%20zwei%20bots%20auf%20de.wiktionary%20arbeiten%20zu%20lassen.<br />
:Hi, this depends on the Wikitionary policy, and it could be different from a language to another one. Anyway, it is already possible to select only recordings done by native speaker. To do that, the speaker has to fill the {{P|16}} property ith the value {{Q|15}} (see for example {{Q|466}}). Other values for {{P|16}} are given [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q5|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sursilvan ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
[[Special:Contributions/Franz.Roos.1955|User:Franz.Roos.1955]] made 2 recordings in [[:en:wp:Sursilvan]] : rauna ([[Q689785]]), tschitta ([[Q689786]]). Sursilvan has no iso code. Do we have a procedure for such languages ? (I forgot if the case already shown up). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:There is not issue. It simply uses the Wikidata identifier when there is no ISO code. Se for example {{Q|1186}}. To record in such languages, we have to create an item for this language/dialect on Lingua Libre, and this is already done for {{Q|74905}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Thank Pamputt for the clarification. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[commons:commons:structured data]] ==<br />
<br />
I've been very pleased with LL's tooling, that does so much of the process of uploading to Commons, sensible naming, description-writing, and categorisation for me; however, I have an idea for an additional step LL could automate. This is in Commons' no-longer-so-new structured data section, which manifests (among other ways) as a tab on the file page.<br />
<br />
As an example of what could be automatically added to a file's datastore, there is a property called 'audio transcription' which serves a similar role to Commons' TimedText subtitle functionality (silly example: [[commons:TimedText:051226-kakapo-billbooming.ogg.en.srt]]) but for shorter clips -- in other words, seemingly designed with applications like LinguaLibre in mind.<br />
<br />
Since these are of the so-called 'monolingual text' datatype, the source language can be specified (or where not part of the main set of languages Wikimedia uses, the special code 'mis' is used and 'language of work or name' used as a qualifier) at the same time as the actual text that is being spoken, which LL has access to since the audio file started out as a text prompt!<br />
<br />
What think y'all? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 04:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Arlo Barnes}} there is [[phab:T239272|Phabricator ticket]] about this topic. Currently there are not yet all properties on Wikidata to fit all Lingua Libre properties. For example, I [[d:Wikidata:Property proposal/language level|proposed to create]] a property for the language level of a speaker but it did not get enough support. SO I guess, we should first list all properties we would like to add on SDC. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [Feature Request] Play next sound automatically while checking recordings ==<br />
<br />
After recording sounds it is important to check them to verify their quality. However, it is very tiring to record 380 words and afterwards have to click 380 times on the ''“Next button”'' while checking them.<br />
<br />
'''After recording, would it be possible to add a button to "Play next sound automatically" ?''' [https://i.imgur.com/XwC34pj.png Screenshot Here] [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, it is already [[phab:T218372|tracked on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "How to use Lingua Libre for your language learning" ==<br />
<br />
I recently found a "new" way to benefit from the sounds on Lingua Libre. I would suggest that it could be advertised on the Lingua Libre main website and on the Wikipedia in French/English:<br />
* [[:en:wp:GoldenDict|GoldenDict]] is a FOSS Dictionary application very valuable for language learners. <br />
<br />
A way to benefit from Lingua Libre recordings is to download the datasets, unzip them and "load" the sounds on GoldenDict (as Sound Directories. [https://i.imgur.com/9avJDgS.png Screenshot here]). In such a way, users have easily an offline "Pronunciation Dictionary". It is very easy to do. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/axRHruk.png screenshot] of how it looks to GoldenDict the French word "fuir". Another example [https://i.imgur.com/Rq0nQCt.png here].<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre sounds can be used with GoldenDict OFFLINE. That is a huge advantage in developing countries, where language learners often do not have reliable internet connection.<br />
<br />
''It would be valuable to create a description on the Lingua Libre website about'' '''"How to use Lingua Libre sounds for your language learning"''' .<br />
<br />
There it would be possible to describe how to use the audios offline with GoldenDict, etc. If more methods are developed (Anki add-on), better GUI, Android App, etc. they could be explained there.--[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:1) '''Reuse of datasets :''' Yes ! Dataset download and reuse must be showcasted and strengthened. I think a "Reuses gallery" page could be created, with screenshot and minimal how-to for GoldenDict, Anki and others.<br />
:2) '''Anki:''' You are the 4th or 5th contributor to rise the need for an Anki add-on. We need to do something on this side, yes. It's more than 1~2 days work and too big for a volunteer work, so we need to apply for a grant. I'am looking in and mapping our options at the moment ({{tl|Grants table}}). At one point we have to jump in and design a project, yes.<br />
:3) For '''e-learning app''', a 5k€ project was designed by myself a year ago. The funding by local regional government was declined, but it could easily be refreshed.<br />
:We have to redesign some projects and apply in early 2022. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::The core question is the Human Resources. <br />
::'''*Daily routines*''' keeps WikiLucas, Pamputt, Poslovitch and myself –aka the community-side contributors— busy maintaining the place, welcoming and guiding new users, cleaning pages, etc. We are now quite smooth, successful and stable on this side.<br />
::To '''*push forward*''' on developments, UI, tools, e-learning, communication, grants, we each have one or two side projects in mind, pushing those <u>''slowly''</u>. But as always in FOSS projects the task ahead is much larger and we could achieve much more with more human resources.<br />
::'''Overall''', it's possible we are at a new turning right now. As things are stable, with road maps available, '''we just need 1 to 3 new coordinators and communicants contributors to tip the dynamic into forward-offensive mode''', with communication therefor new arrivals, new speakers, new devs, new coordinators and really push forward with new events/workshop, funds and SMART features. <br />
::@[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]], I'am currently writing down structuring "community how to" to ease new contributor's jumping in (see [[LinguaLibre:Roles]], [[LinguaLibre:Workshops]], {{tl|Grants table}}). You are doing a nice push on communication (It's FOSS) and with your questions you are mapping out Lili's needs. Pamputt and WikiLucas are following our progresses. All this is pretty interesting. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would like to work on the "Public Relations" Department of LinguaLibre! - EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) : '''Any PR campaign would fail miserably if there is no search function.''' I explain the reasons at the end of this section: [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]]<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 23:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Sound good :) Your outreach to YouTubers and popular FOSS blogs is spot on.<br />
::I am back from a wikibreak, I am cleaning up some last pages, then since the maintenance side is stable I would like to focus my energy on projects design –recording rare languages, technology, PR campaign– and associated grant requests to secure funding and the actual realization of those visions. We can collaborate. You lead on the PR : design your campaign. I can review and help it to fit some Grants formats. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I created a new wiki page in the "events" section of a "PR Campaign for 2022". Please visit [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]] and participate in the discussion with new ideas. EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) I will NOT contribute anymore to a PR campaign. the reasons are explained as comment on the relevant section [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 21:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating a LL catgory for a dialect ==<br />
<br />
Would be grateful if someone could tell me if it's possible to create a LL category for a dialect?<br />
<br />
We're working in Konkani, which has its own (but small) Wikipedia at http://gom.wikipedia.org Under Konkani, there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. <br />
<br />
Would like to create a category for Saxtti (the Salcete dialect of Konkani). This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. Also, it would allow the recordings of many others which might have already been done in Konkani as a how.<br />
<br />
Question: How do we create space for the dialects of a language? <br />
<br />
Thanks very much, in advance! --[[User:Fredericknoronha|Fredericknoronha]] ([[User talk:Fredericknoronha|talk]]) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello {{ping|Fredericknoronha}} and welcome to Lingua Libre. I imported {{Q|700683}} (gom) as it was not on Lingua Libre yet. On Lingua Libre, dialects are treated the same way as languages. You can create an element for your dialect on Wikidata (example for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35359 auvergnat dialect]) and tell us once it is ready, so that we can import it on Lingua Libre with an admin tool. You can also directly create an element for your dialect on Lingua Libre, following the steps described at [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Add_a_new_language|Help:Add a new language]] and taking example of {{Q|1186}}. Don't hesitate to ping an admin if you have any questions.<br />
:All the best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::''« there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. […] This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. »''<br />
::If the writing are similar but only the pronunciation differs depending on where the speaker comes from, it looks like different accents.<br />
::Recordings are specific to a word, a language and a speaker. Which means me recording in French the word "bonjour" will be one audio file on Lili. WikiLucas can record in French the same word "bonjour", it will create an other audio file on Lili. My recording(s), since i come from the South West, will carry the southern accent. Recordings by WikiLucas, who lives 700km East of me, will cary the Lyon area accent. Lingualibre will store 2 recordings, one per user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Hello {{u|Fredericknoronha}}, I have imported {{Q|701734}} so that you can now record words in that dialect. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Feedback about Lingua Libre by Professor Carol Genetti, PhD ==<br />
<br />
'''Dear Members of Lingua Libre,<br />
'''<br />
I am pleased to share a message from Professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Genetti Carol Genetti], a linguist and leading expert in endangered languages. Professor Genetti is author of one of the best books in the field of Linguistics called "How Languages Work". Her vast knowledge and experience are extremely valuable and after reviewing Lingua Libre she said:<br />
<br />
''Thank you for contacting me and letting me know about this initiative. It is an interesting idea. I especially like the multilingual menus -- very helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Are you aware of [https://www.endangeredlanguages.com/ this website], hosted by the University of Hawaii (and, I believe, funded by Google). So one thing that occurs to me is the proliferation of such sites. How will people in an endangered-language community find out about their options, and then make an informed choice about which of these online resources will be best over time for their communities? Should such efforts cross-reference each other?''<br />
<br />
''My second thought has to do with longevity. It takes a significant commitment to support a site like this over time. The challenge is having someone who can keep such sites funded, working, organized, relevant, and engaging users over time. How will you make sure that the data will be available in 10, 50, 150 years? Maybe you get that automatically by being associated with Wikipedia. If so, state that. Also, there should be a clear statement of how such data might be used, and by whom, so speakers know that if they record a wordlist, someone might use if for some purpose without their permission (is that right?).<br />
''<br />
''I'm sorry to have to bring a down-to-earth message to the inspiration and passion for endangered languages that has clearly fueled this work, but having seen other initiatives stumble in this way, I wanted to be sure that you are thinking about this. Speakers will be entrusting you with such valuable pieces of their lives and their cultures. How will you safeguard this over time? Let people know.<br />
''<br />
''Those issues aside, here are a couple of other comments:''<br />
<br />
* There should be a statement targeted for speakers of endangered languages - why would they want to do this? What is the value for them and their communities? What will happen to the recordings? etc.''<br />
* Will you provide speakers with suggestions for what vocabulary to record, e.g. greetings, colors, verb forms?''<br />
* It would be helpful if it was clear from the large list of languages which ones have recordings. Maybe put those in a different color font?''<br />
* It would be helpful to include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language. Otherwise, someone's grandkids coming to this in 30 years will not know what the words mean.''<br />
* Do you want to move beyond single words to a piece of connected discourse, such as a short poem or story, a song, or the reading of some common text (such as a sentence from the UN Declaration for Linguistic Rights)?''<br />
* Should there be a means to flag inappropriate content?''<br />
<br />
''I hope that you find this helpful. And I'm so glad you liked my book! It is lovely to hear that people have found it helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Carol Genetti''<br />
''Vice Provost for Graduate and Postdoctoral Programs''<br />
''NYU Abu Dhabi''<br />
''(she/her/hers)''<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, this is some interesting feedback.<br />
:* "What will happen to the recordings?": Our homepage lacks such important information. We should plan a redesign for 2022 (inspired by the homepage of [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/ Common Voice]?) so that we finally have a homepage that properly explains what Lingua Libre is and can do.<br />
:* "Suggestions of things to record?": This already exists. They're called Lists. We have some pending improvements on that matter (easier to find and contribute to, etc.)<br />
:* "Show which languages have recordings": The datasets page could help, but I guess it would be interesting to put that on an easy-to-find page (again, like [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/languages Common Voice's languages page]?)<br />
:* "Include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language": we only support "transcription" for now.<br />
:** How could we even "link" the recordings to translations? (Lexemes? Plain text?)<br />
:** Who would have to do that? (the locutor? a dedicated team of contributors?)<br />
:** Where would it be done? (in the RecordWizard?)<br />
:** -> That's an interesting thing to think about, but might be slightly out of scope right now<br />
:* "Sentences, stories, songs...?": Yes, indeed. The Record Wizard is already able to do that (with some config tweaks that have to be done by the locutor), but it would be great to streamline this further. Dedicated UI, ability to record an audiobook (or Wikipedia, Wikisource, Wikinews article) as a mixture of sentences that can be stored locally before being all merged together into one audio file sent to Commons, ability for multiple contributors to work on the same book/article... That's something we should also discuss with the [https://librivox.org/ Librivox] folks: they use Audacity so far, but they might be interested in a tool that's better suited to their needs.<br />
:* "flag inappropriate content?": My insight is focused on technical stuff. This sounds more like some editorial guidelines that would have to be debated by the community.<br />
:* "'''longevity'''?": Should Lingua Libre vanish tomorrow, the audio recordings are not lost. They're all stored on Wikimedia Commons, and that makes them as "immortal" as files stored on hard disks, SSDs, CDs or magnetic bands and mirrored half a dozen times around the world can be. However, I can't say much about our Wikibase, which, at the current time, '''is the only place where all the recordings and locutor-related metadata is stored'''. That's a serious single point of failure. There are no dumps and therefore no mirrorring. We'll definitely have to discuss it with Wikimedia France and the Tech Team.<br />
:Hopefully my answers are clear and comprehensible. I'm pleased to have received feedback from Pr. Genetti. Now it's our turn to take matters in our hands! --[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to delete lists? ==<br />
:{{Done}} <br />
Hello, recently I completed some lists. Now everything is done and those lists are needless. Is there any possibility to delete lists? Greetings --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} hello, admins can delete those lists. The lists you created are [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?target=Onkel+Tomm&namespace=142&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions here]. Which ones should I delete ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Hello Yug, please delete all 8 lists, because they are all finally finished. Thanks. --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 13:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} We are clean ! thank for asking, it keeps the place clean :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Case study ==<br />
Hello all, I noticed a file upload which gather interesting use cases.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Item || Label || Speaker || Account || Filename || Category<br />
|-<br />
| [[Q709231]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q709231&oldid=689510 arch.]) || "Ingenieur" || [[Q674858]] 'fleur' || User:Beat_Ruest || [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] || [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest]]<br />
|-<br />
| — || Mispelling of "Ingénieur" || – || – || Carries the misspelling || Category page was not created, therefor virtually "lost" to Wikimedia Commons and [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
* Question 1: How do we handle mispelling ? I assume renaming ALL THREE of the [[Q709231]]'s label AND Property:P3 'recording' AND Wikimedia file [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] rename. Is that ok or will it break something ?<br />
* Question 2: Category should be automatically created. How do we go for this ? I assume a request on [[LinguaLibre:Bot]]<br />
* Question 3: What about the category by *speaker/voice* ([[Q709231]] 'fleur'), which curently doesn't exist, and which can have multiple speakers with the same name 'fleur' ?<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Question 1: it is a good start. I guess, we need to fix it both on Lingua Libre and on Wikimedia Commons<br />
: Question 2: you speak about categories on Wikimedia Commons? If so, I guess a bot can do it (Lingua Libre Bot or another one).<br />
: Question 3: actually the speaker is identified as "fleur (Beat Ruest)". Only one locutor of Beat Ruest can use the nickname "fleur".<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Q1, Q2 agree.<br />
::Q3 : {{ping|Pamputt}} check the categories on [[:commons:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} you mean the problem is [[:c:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] is categorized in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest" and not in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by fleur (Beat Ruest)" or similar name? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, we dont have categorization by '''speaker''' "Fleur (Beat Ruest)". Low importance, but could be a feature request. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gestion de doublons ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]'' (new, needs review!)<br />
<br />
Bonsoir !<br />
<br />
Il y a-t-il une gestion de doublons dans LL pour les mots d'une même langue ? [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 13:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]], si un même locuteur enregistre le même mot alors l'enregistrement précédent sera écrasé (un même locuteur ne peut enregistrer qu'une seule fois le même mot). En revanche, rien n'empêche l'enregistrement d'un même mot par plusieurs locuteurs et locutrices différentes, c'est même un des objectifs de Lingua Libre : mettre en lumière la diversité des prononciations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] : Comment sont alors gérés les homographes non homophones ? ^^ [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]] ([[User talk:Totodu74|talk]]) 00:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Bonjour [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], il est possible d'ajouter des indications entre parenthèses (cette information est stockée à l'aide de {{P|18}}). Voir par exemple {{Q|1685}} et {{Q|1686}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
:::@[[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], salut, la question des homographes est en partie résolue dans nos langues africaines qui sont essentiellement des langues à tons. --[[User:Rçag|Rçag]] ([[User talk:Rçag|talk]]) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Rçag, could you explain your solution a bit so we learn from it.<br />
:{{Ping|BamLifa|Rçag|Pamputt|Totodu74}} the page [[Help:Homographs]] is there to gather best practices. It's new, review and edits welcome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Comment changer de pseudonyme ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, sur les projets de Wikimedia, mon pseudonyme est Manjiro91 (et anciennement GamissimoYT), comment change-t-on de pseudonyme ?<br />
[[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|GamissimoYT}}. Lingua Libre utilise le même pseudo que celui qui est en utilisation sur Wikimedia Commons. Donc si vous voulez utiliser le pesudonyme Manjiro91, déconnectez-vous de Lingua Libre, puis de Wikimedia Commons. Ensuite, connectez vous à Commons avec le pseudo Manjiro91 et enfin reconnectez vous à Lingua Libre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
{{Notif|Pamputt}} Mon pseudonyme Wikimedia Commons est Manjiro91 (anciennement GamissimoYT mais le changement de pseudonyme ne s'effectue pas sur LiLi. [[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|GamissimoYT}}, tu as bien fait les connexions/déconnexions dans l'ordre que j'ai indiqué ? Si tu es sûr que tu es connecté avec Manjiro91 sur Wikimedia Commons, alors tu peux essayer de te déconnecter de Lingua Libre et te reconnecter dans la foulée. Essayer de vider le cache du navigateur peut peut-être aidé aussi. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging of items about languages ==<br />
<br />
Hi y'all,<br />
<br />
For the record, I just merge a couple of items about the same language:<br />
* {{Q|52071}} in {{Q|73}}<br />
* {{Q|139228}} in {{Q|183}}<br />
* {{Q|170137}} in {{Q|359}}<br />
* {{Q|683869}} in {{Q|418}}<br />
* {{Q|646169}} in {{Q|6714}}<br />
* {{Q|570518}} in {{Q|52069}}<br />
* {{Q|538624}} in {{Q|84030}}<br />
* {{Q|646173}} in {{Q|390314}}<br />
* {{Q|646161}} in {{Q|502754}}<br />
* {{Q|570510}} in {{Q|489393}}<br />
<br />
I detected them with this SPARQL query: <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql"><br />
SELECT ?idWD (COUNT(?item) AS ?compte) (GROUP_CONCAT(?item) AS ?items) WHERE {<br />
?item prop:P2 entity:Q4 ; prop:P12 ?idWD .<br />
}<br />
GROUP BY ?idWD<br />
HAVING ( ?compte > 1 )<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
Ping {{ping|WikiLucas00}} it seems you are responsible for some of them...<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks VIGNERON for finding them and cleaning it. Now what to do with recording items that use the doublon language item (for example with [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q52071|Duala]]). I think we must modify {{P|4}} for all recording items so that languages are not counted twice and also to clean up the database (there are also transcription problems for items listed in the Duala example). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you {{ping|VIGNERON}} for pointing these out. As you can see, most of them were not created manually but using the tool (the pages wheighted circa 4kB, with labels in many languages). It seems that the Lingua Importer tool has (or had?) a problem, but I could not reproduce it (trying to import languages that are already in LL wikibase).<br/> During last summer's hackathon we talked a bit about languages in our wikibase, but I can't remember why we need to have language elements in our Wikibase, and not just use the existing base of WikiData 🤔 — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MediaWiki customizations of LinguaLibre ==<br />
<br />
Love the MediaWiki skin of LinguaLibre and I am curious of skin and customizations made. Who are the authors? (can not see credits) --[[User:Zblace|Zblace]] ([[User talk:Zblace|talk]]) 10:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The skin is known as BlueLL. The source code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL github]. It has been developed by Wikimedia France in 2020. That's said, it is true there is no licence and credits on Github. I will ask to {{u|Adélaïde Calais WMFr}} if she remember anything so that I can the missing informations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New property: translation ==<br />
Hello, I've created {{P|38}} to be used in case there is no writing in the recording language but instead a translation in the vehicular language. See for example what I did [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q212431&type=revision&diff=743039&oldid=191330 here] and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q58994&type=revision&diff=743044&oldid=580313 there]. Do you agree with that? Any comment? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:It's a good idea! Many users tend to add a translation as they find it important for other people to have. It will also be handy for cases like your second example, where we only have the translation but not the transcription of the source language: we will be able to query the base to see all audios of a language that have a translation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::I am thinking about a way to populate automatically this property via the Record Wizard. Currently, it seems that the Record Wizard populates {{P|18}} when something is written between brackets (see {{Q|1685}} for example but I have not checked recently). So, if we modify the Record Wizard code, it is possible to recognize this is a translation in another language and so to populate {{P|38}}. But I would like to be sure to propose the best way to do it before asking for such development. The idea is to be managed automatically (or at least not completely manually). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 00:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone ! <br />
<br/>This week, Wikimedia France is preparing its budget for the fiscal year to come : July 2022 to June 2023. If there are things you would like to see done or to do with our help on Lingua Libre, please share it on this page : https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection <br />
<br/>Have a great week-end ! --[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 17:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
: {{u|marreromarco}} Thank you for your suggestions. However, I have some reservations about "Add function to "Request" a Pronunciation to Native Speakers" at this current stage for two reasons. First, this will require quite a bit of moderation to correct requests for grammar and spelling (e.g. HASBAND) as well as remove terrible requests. This will place a large burden on a few users and can easily lead to questionable decisions by moderators. Second, Forvo is flooded with requests that are either overly specific (e.g. "He came back from abyss and won the tie.") and, therefore, likely benefit only one user. IMHO, Rdrg109 proposal to focus on providing pronunciations for entries on the various wiktionaries is a better approach to building up the LL at this point. It will provide a solid foundation for users to find any word in LL. It might be a better time to open up LL to general requests once this project is completed and the community has grown. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 15:49, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to get the city country lablel in sparql (Python) ==<br />
<br />
I'm working on an Anki extension for LL, but I'm having a little trouble writing the sparql query. In short, I want to be able to get the city and country for a recording in LL. However, when I query P14, I get the link to the item instead of 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'} or 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'}. Instead I hope to get city:"" and country "France" for the first query city:"Paris" and country:"France" for the second one. Any ideas? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Languageseeker}} thanks for your work on a Anki extension. Could you post here the query you have now? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{u|Pamputt}} . The query that I'm using is a very lightly modified version of the bot query. <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql">ENDPOINT = "https://lingualibre.org/bigdata/namespace/wdq/sparql"<br />
API = "https://lingualibre.org/api.php"<br />
BASEQUERY = """<br />
SELECT DISTINCT<br />
?record ?file ?transcription ?recorded<br />
?languageIso ?languageQid ?languageWMCode<br />
?residence ?learningPlace ?languageLevel<br />
?speaker ?linkeduser<br />
WHERE {<br />
?record prop:P2 entity:Q2 .<br />
?record prop:P3 ?file .<br />
?record prop:P4 ?language .<br />
?record prop:P5 ?speaker .<br />
?record prop:P6 ?recorded .<br />
?record prop:P7 ?transcription .<br />
?language prop:P13 ?languageIso.<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel .<br />
?speaker prop:P11 ?linkeduser .<br />
?speaker prop:P14 ?residence .<br />
?speaker llp:P4 ?speakerLanguagesStatement .<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llv:P4 ?speakerLanguages .<br />
OPTIONAL { ?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel . }<br />
FILTER( ?speakerLanguages = ?language) .<br />
SERVICE wikibase:label {<br />
bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" .<br />
}<br />
#filters<br />
}"""</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
:: Currently, I'm running it with filters = "" because it seems that a query for a single term takes around 70s, while fetching a single transcription takes about 145 seconds. My plan is to group the results by transcription and then write that into a json file to avoid the costly query. Basically, I need the speaker name, the term, their country, their city, the ISO code of the language, date created, and the filename, languageLevel. <br />
<br />
For example, for the term un chien, the json would look like:<br />
{ "term": {"un chien": {"speaker": "Julien Baley", "language": "fra", "city": "", "country": "France", "recorded": "2020-11-27", "filename": "LL-Q150_(fra)-Julien_Baley-un_chien.wav", "languageLevel": "Q15"}}} [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user ==<br />
<br />
I wrote a [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader python program] that downloads all the files created by one user. For video files, it downloads the full webm. For audio files, the default is to download the wave file. However, for audio files, you can optionally choose either mp3 or ogg files. Currently, the configuration requires a minor modification of lluad.py. If there is strong demand, I will write a command line parser for it. Please report any bugs or errors on the github page. Feature requests are welcome. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=763341LinguaLibre:Chat room2022-05-21T15:49:48Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
{{Lang-CR}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
{{LL:Chat room/FAQ}}<br />
__TOC__<br />
<!-- **** DO NOT EDIT CONTENT ABOVE **** --><br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publish on Wikimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just tested, but my records are not published on Commons. My tests: on Firefox, then on Chrome, with 50, then with 1 expression (s), with license CC3.0-BY-SA and CC1.0. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 06:51, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[[File:LiLi April 2021 - Publish on Wikimedia Commons.png|thumb|Problème de publication sur Wikimedia Commons]]<br />
:[[phab:T281636]] —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 07:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Usually I have the same with the first two recordings in a session. Then I can upload them again at the end. Try again with more recordings, and using "retry filed upload" button. [[User:Poemat|Poemat]] ([[User talk:Poemat|talk]]) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: Yup, I had this bug many times. (I say "had" because I don't remember having encountered it after the fire incident.) Just don't give up and it should be published eventually. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::(As of 3 May 2021 and as I checked, I'm not aware of any code changes ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/commits/master history]) which may have of affected this. Seb35 made some other code change this same day.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
I add a user who has the same problem: {{u|Le Commissaire}}. —[[User:Eihel-LiLi|Eihel-LiLi]] ([[User talk:Eihel-LiLi|talk]]) 15:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Bonjour {{ping|Seb35}}, Faudrait voir avec {{u|Le Commissaire}} si le problème persiste aussi (avant de clore le ticket Phab. Sincères salutations. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 10:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::J’ai mis un message à Le Commissaire sur sa page de discussion.<br />
::::::Le problème que vous avez eu était spécifique à votre compte, c’est peut-être arrivé à d’autres personnes mais ça semble assez rare. Aussi, à partir du moment où un utilisateur a réussi à faire un envoi vers Commons, alors c’est un problème différent du vôtre ([[:phabricator:T275957|celui-ci, qui ressemble mais l’erreur est intermittente]]). Plus globalement, il faudrait que le message d’erreur soit explicite plutôt que d’aller à chercher dans la console du navigateur, je vais ouvrir un ticket Phabricator en ce sens. [[User:Seb35|Seb35]] ([[User talk:Seb35|talk]]) 10:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exclusion lists ==<br />
If anyone uses the regularly updated [[user:Olafbot|Olafbot's]] lists of wanted words ([[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]], etc.), and spotted an item that should be removed without recording, you can use the brand new exclusion lists to remove it. For example on the list [[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]] there was the word "abandonar", which apparently doesn't belong to the contemporary French corpus. Having added it on the exclusion list (here: [[user:Olafbot/exclusion list/Fra]]) the bot knows this item should never appear in French lists it maintains, and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries&diff=619214&oldid=606068 removes it] during the next update. <br />
<br />
Each "Lemmas without audio" list ({{Olafbot-wikt}}) has a corresponding exclusion list ({{Olafbot-exclusion}}). I hope it will help.<br />
<br />
Normally I would add a link to the exclusion list in a description of each lemmas list, but unfortunately, Lingua Libre engine doesn't allow adding any kind of comments or descriptions to lists, so this ad is the only way to spread a word about the new functionality. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}} Thank you so much for this useful new function! Indeed, the Record Wizard does not yet understand comments, categories nor templates on List pages, but this will be considered for future updates. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 18:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ajout d'une nouvelle langue ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour !<br />
<br />
Je souhaite ajouter la langue Q3196953 mais en suivant la [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Help:Add_a_new_language/fr procédure], je ne vois pas LinguaImporter. Quelqu'un peut-il me dire pourquoi?<br />
<br />
Cdt,<br />
BamLifa<br />
: {{ping|BamLifa}} c'est parce que tu n'es pas administrateur. Je viens d'importer le {{Q|646152}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, merci beaucoup pour cette précision. Si cette option n'est réservée qu'aux admins, pourquoi en parler dans la doc sans cette précision ? En plus, vue la multitude des langues que nous avons qui n'existent pas encore chez Lingua libre, ne pensez-vous pas que vous devriez simplifier cette tâche ? J'ai encore une autre langue à ajouter, le Bira (bila). [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 12:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|BamLifa}} c'est indiqué sur cette page (c'est même le titre de la section (Outil pour les administrateurs)). Je ne me rappelle pas pourquoi c'est réservé aux admins mais ça limite au moins les vandales qui voudraient importer des choses qui ne sont pas des langues. Bref, j'ai importé le {{Q|656403}} et le {{Q|656404}}. Si ce ne sont pas les bonnes langues, peux-tu me donner le code ISO 639-3 correspondant (ou au moins l'identifiant Wikidata) ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Merci beaucoup. [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 05:34, 22 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lists still don't work properly ==<br />
<br />
{{Ping|WikiLucas00}} {{Ping|Poslovitch}} It's better than [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Lists_stopped_working|before]], but still, sometimes the Record Wizard hangs when a list is chosen.<br />
Then I have to reload the page, and try again. Usually the second or the third time of trying the same list, it starts to work.<br />
Probably a race condition. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}}It also happens to me sometimes, but I think that it could be related to the button for removing words you already recorded. When you load a list of words you never recorded (typically Olafbot's lists), ticking the button seems to kill the loading. Best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 10:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you. Indeed, with this switch unchecked everything seems to work. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 16:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liste des mots à prononcer ==<br />
<br />
Salut ! Existe-t-il une page où des mots peuvent être ajoutés pour qu'un bon samaritain puisse parler ? [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 11:30, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|Vivaelcelta}}, les listes sont faites pour cela. Vous pouvez [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Create_your_own_lists|créer votre propre liste]] qui pourra ensuite être enregistrée par n'importe qui. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci {{u|Pamputt}}. — [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 22:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Projet Outils pour la patrouille ==<br />
:''See [[LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol assistance tool prototyping project]].''<br />
{{LangSwitch<br />
|fr=Salut,<br />
<br />
cette semaine commence un projet menés par des étudiants des formations IARF-RODECO de l’Université Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier concernant le prototypage d’outils de patrouille. Je suis, assisté par Adélaïde Calais, le superviseur de ce projet. Les étudiants sont en informatique avec une spécialisation en intelligence artificielle. L’idée est de leur faire prototyper (voire développer) des outils pour aider la patrouille de Lingua Libre en détectant automatiquement toutes sortes de problèmes. Nous avons déjà identifier quelques problèmes : clics, grésillements, bruits parasites et mauvaises prononciations (libellés et enregistrements pas raccord).<br />
<br />
Et nous avons besoin de la communauté sur deux points : <br />
# y a-t-il d’autres problèmes auxquels vous pensez ?<br />
# nous avons besoin, pour que les étudiants puissent travailler, d’enregistrements avec défauts. Si vous les avez réenregistrés, c’est pas grave, Commons a un historique. N’hésitez pas à nous communiquer les enregistrements qui ont ou avaient des défauts !<br />
<br />
Enfin, j’ai créé une page de projet accessible [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|ici]] (page traduite).<br />
<br />
(Si certain·es peuvent traduire ce message en anglais, c’est super cool.)<br />
<br />
À+,<br />
|en=Hi,<br />
<br />
This week, a project lead by student of University Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier is starting. It will be about the prototyping of patrolling tools. I supervise this project, assisted by Adélaïde Calais. The students study computer science with a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. The aim is to have them prototyping (or even developing) tools to help Lingua Libre's patrol, by automatically detecting any kind of mistake/error related to the files. We already identified a few types of mistakes: clicks, crackles, pops and labelling issues (wrong label/wrong language).<br />
<br />
We need the community on two points : <br />
# are there other problems you could think of? <br />
# we need some recordings having issues, in order for the students to be able to work. If you already recorded them again, it is not a big deal, Commons has a file history. Don't hesitate to provide us the files that have or had problems.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I created a project page, available [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|here]].<br />
<br />
See you,}}<br />
[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 09:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], Translated page —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 19:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], [[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde]], could you specify the dates for this project ? <br />
::Also, were your point 1 and two answered by the community somewhere ? (If not I could give it a try) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug}} Hi, I updated the project page with the dates. And I didn’t get any answers to my questions. [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 11:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rashidun Caliphate ==<br />
<br />
Hello {{ping|Zinou2go}},<br />
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q13955_(ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة_الراشدة.wav LL-Q13955 (ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة الراشدة.wav] is problematic (currently {{Q|Q204439}} on LiLi): it contains several cuts (clicks). I proposed the file for deletion in Commons. The recordings seem to be working better, could you record Rashidun Caliphate again? I didn't check the other records, but they are likely to have "clicks" as well. Also, can an admin delete this item on LiLi, please? Cordially. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Eihel}} Please do not nominate files for deletion before asking for the speaker to record it again and waiting a while for their answer. Also, these recordings will come useful for the team currently working on the audio issues of Lingua Libre, so we'd better not delete them (I thought you read my messages on Discord about this). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{Ping|WikiLucas00}}, J'ai enlevé la suppression sur Commons. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Code of Conduct ==<br />
Hi everyone, I just noticed again MediaWiki's [[:mw:Code of Conduct]] (2015) and Wikimedia Foundation's [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02). Back in 2015, 0x010C included the first one as a condition to contribute to [https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard RecordWizard's codebase]. As far as I know, Lili.org and its community, so far, [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Code+of+conduct has no Code of Conduct]. We may be ''implicitely'' binded by it or by some Wikimedia France's Code of Conduct, but it would be cleaner to ''explicitly'' adopt one and display it here, in written. We could therefor do the following :<br />
# Short round to confirm with have nothing in place so far.<br />
# Vote for 2 months to adopt the most recent [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02)<br />
# Copy the text into [[LinguaLibre:Universal Code of Conduct]].<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Pre-discussion ===<br />
Do we already have a Code of Conduct binding LinguaLibre ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Vote ===<br />
''Are you for or against adopting the [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021) as a code of conduct for LinguaLibre's community ?''<br><br />
''Possible votes : {{tl|support}} • {{tl|weak support}} • {{tl|weak oppose}} • {{tl|oppose}}''<br />
* {{Support}} (proposer) — better to be explicit, have a framework in place, just to be clear to all on where we stand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre website should be more appealing to Language Learners ==<br />
:''See also [https://forvo.com Forvo.com].''<br />
It would be useful if LinguaLibre follows the example of Forvo to increase the number of language learners interested in the Project.<br />
<br />
Forvo.com has a way of displaying the information that engage users and makes it very easy to find pronunciations. <br />
<br />
For example, if someone wants to learn how to pronounce "Honoré de Balzac" in French, it would be faster to find the audio on Forvo than on LinguaLibre. Also, Forvo displays the data in a way more appealing to language learners:<br />
* https://forvo.com/search/Honoré_de_Balzac/<br />
* https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Honoré+de+Balzac<br />
'''Would it be possible to improve the way that data is displayed on LinguaLibre to make it more appealing to Language Learners ?'''<br />
''In such way, the number of active users recording audios would increase significantly.'' -- [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]]<br />
:Some people previously reported such "issue". There is a [[phab:T252319|ticket]] on Phabricator to keep this in mind. However, the priority is currently given to develop patrol tools for Lingua Libre and we do not expect to see major improvements related to the audio brosing in the coming months (at least if we have no more external developers). I think it is like this because Lingua Libre has been though so that it helps for recording, not for listening; the second is let to the other Wikimedia projects, mainly Wiktionaries et Wikidata. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::YES ! There are oral discussions and proposals in this direction, but LinguaLibre being a volunteers-based team, we are moving slowly. Forvo is a for-profit entity, it locks the copyright and resale of recordings made on its platform to the speaker-creator and to themselves, to then sell those recordings with a profit. They therefor have money and swift decision-making to sustain their UI/UX efforts. We are shorter on those sides. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Sound Library's forking and hacking ===<br />
'''On the [[LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library|Sound Library]] side''', I was able to duplicate/fork it, which allows to start hack its CSS. Copy those codes into your own namespace :<br />
* [[User:Yug/common.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/common.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]] → [[Special:MyPage/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]]<br />
In those codes, you then have to replace all occurrences of "Yug" by your username, and it's should work. You can start hacking toward a more elegant interface. Note: the JS copy is in your *personal* JS and has a "stop" condition so the various JS instances won't fight. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allow recording only in the user's Native Language to avoid passing "mispronunciations" to Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
I started a discussion on the German Wiktionary because some words on LinguaLibre are not available on the DeWikt. The German Community told me that LinguaLibre adds words into Commons, but the Bot only accepts audios from “few” trusted users using a filter. <br />
<br />
The English and German Wiktionaries use a bot called "DerbethBot" to add audios from Commons. However, the English Wiktionary community asked to block Lingua Libre's recordings because there were non-native speakers recording audios and the Bot had no way to differentiate them from Native speakers. After the audios were introduced in the English Wiktionary they had to forbid adding audios from LinguaLibre:<br />
<br />
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2020/July#Labeling_non-native_audio<br />
<br />
I believe that it is necessary to avoid giving “mispronunciations” to Wictionaries. That is similar to vandalism on a Wiktionary if the reader doesn't know that it is hearing a bad pronunciation and believes that it is “native speaker”:<br />
<br />
''Some suggestions:''<br />
1) Would it be possible to name the audios files to specify if the speaker is a native or not? For example, if a French speaker records the word "maison" it could be named '''"maison-fr-native.ogg"''' . If a language learner records the same word : '''"maison-fr-learner.ogg"'''<br />
<br />
2) A radical way to address the issue would be to only allow to record in one's native language. Of course, users could change it, but strong warnings could be added and always remind people to record only their native language. Forvo seems to take this approach.<br />
<br />
It might be valuable for Linguists to have recordings of non-native speakers to study their accent features in an L-2 Language. However, in my humble opinion the pronunciations added to Wiktionary should be only native speakers and bots should have a way to differentiate them.<br />
<br />
Link to the German Wiktionary discussion about LinguaLibre: <br />
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Teestube#:~:text=von%20technischer%20seite%20gibt%20es%20keinem%20problem%2C%20zwei%20bots%20auf%20de.wiktionary%20arbeiten%20zu%20lassen.<br />
:Hi, this depends on the Wikitionary policy, and it could be different from a language to another one. Anyway, it is already possible to select only recordings done by native speaker. To do that, the speaker has to fill the {{P|16}} property ith the value {{Q|15}} (see for example {{Q|466}}). Other values for {{P|16}} are given [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q5|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sursilvan ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
[[Special:Contributions/Franz.Roos.1955|User:Franz.Roos.1955]] made 2 recordings in [[:en:wp:Sursilvan]] : rauna ([[Q689785]]), tschitta ([[Q689786]]). Sursilvan has no iso code. Do we have a procedure for such languages ? (I forgot if the case already shown up). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:There is not issue. It simply uses the Wikidata identifier when there is no ISO code. Se for example {{Q|1186}}. To record in such languages, we have to create an item for this language/dialect on Lingua Libre, and this is already done for {{Q|74905}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Thank Pamputt for the clarification. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[commons:commons:structured data]] ==<br />
<br />
I've been very pleased with LL's tooling, that does so much of the process of uploading to Commons, sensible naming, description-writing, and categorisation for me; however, I have an idea for an additional step LL could automate. This is in Commons' no-longer-so-new structured data section, which manifests (among other ways) as a tab on the file page.<br />
<br />
As an example of what could be automatically added to a file's datastore, there is a property called 'audio transcription' which serves a similar role to Commons' TimedText subtitle functionality (silly example: [[commons:TimedText:051226-kakapo-billbooming.ogg.en.srt]]) but for shorter clips -- in other words, seemingly designed with applications like LinguaLibre in mind.<br />
<br />
Since these are of the so-called 'monolingual text' datatype, the source language can be specified (or where not part of the main set of languages Wikimedia uses, the special code 'mis' is used and 'language of work or name' used as a qualifier) at the same time as the actual text that is being spoken, which LL has access to since the audio file started out as a text prompt!<br />
<br />
What think y'all? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 04:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Arlo Barnes}} there is [[phab:T239272|Phabricator ticket]] about this topic. Currently there are not yet all properties on Wikidata to fit all Lingua Libre properties. For example, I [[d:Wikidata:Property proposal/language level|proposed to create]] a property for the language level of a speaker but it did not get enough support. SO I guess, we should first list all properties we would like to add on SDC. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [Feature Request] Play next sound automatically while checking recordings ==<br />
<br />
After recording sounds it is important to check them to verify their quality. However, it is very tiring to record 380 words and afterwards have to click 380 times on the ''“Next button”'' while checking them.<br />
<br />
'''After recording, would it be possible to add a button to "Play next sound automatically" ?''' [https://i.imgur.com/XwC34pj.png Screenshot Here] [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, it is already [[phab:T218372|tracked on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "How to use Lingua Libre for your language learning" ==<br />
<br />
I recently found a "new" way to benefit from the sounds on Lingua Libre. I would suggest that it could be advertised on the Lingua Libre main website and on the Wikipedia in French/English:<br />
* [[:en:wp:GoldenDict|GoldenDict]] is a FOSS Dictionary application very valuable for language learners. <br />
<br />
A way to benefit from Lingua Libre recordings is to download the datasets, unzip them and "load" the sounds on GoldenDict (as Sound Directories. [https://i.imgur.com/9avJDgS.png Screenshot here]). In such a way, users have easily an offline "Pronunciation Dictionary". It is very easy to do. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/axRHruk.png screenshot] of how it looks to GoldenDict the French word "fuir". Another example [https://i.imgur.com/Rq0nQCt.png here].<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre sounds can be used with GoldenDict OFFLINE. That is a huge advantage in developing countries, where language learners often do not have reliable internet connection.<br />
<br />
''It would be valuable to create a description on the Lingua Libre website about'' '''"How to use Lingua Libre sounds for your language learning"''' .<br />
<br />
There it would be possible to describe how to use the audios offline with GoldenDict, etc. If more methods are developed (Anki add-on), better GUI, Android App, etc. they could be explained there.--[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:1) '''Reuse of datasets :''' Yes ! Dataset download and reuse must be showcasted and strengthened. I think a "Reuses gallery" page could be created, with screenshot and minimal how-to for GoldenDict, Anki and others.<br />
:2) '''Anki:''' You are the 4th or 5th contributor to rise the need for an Anki add-on. We need to do something on this side, yes. It's more than 1~2 days work and too big for a volunteer work, so we need to apply for a grant. I'am looking in and mapping our options at the moment ({{tl|Grants table}}). At one point we have to jump in and design a project, yes.<br />
:3) For '''e-learning app''', a 5k€ project was designed by myself a year ago. The funding by local regional government was declined, but it could easily be refreshed.<br />
:We have to redesign some projects and apply in early 2022. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::The core question is the Human Resources. <br />
::'''*Daily routines*''' keeps WikiLucas, Pamputt, Poslovitch and myself –aka the community-side contributors— busy maintaining the place, welcoming and guiding new users, cleaning pages, etc. We are now quite smooth, successful and stable on this side.<br />
::To '''*push forward*''' on developments, UI, tools, e-learning, communication, grants, we each have one or two side projects in mind, pushing those <u>''slowly''</u>. But as always in FOSS projects the task ahead is much larger and we could achieve much more with more human resources.<br />
::'''Overall''', it's possible we are at a new turning right now. As things are stable, with road maps available, '''we just need 1 to 3 new coordinators and communicants contributors to tip the dynamic into forward-offensive mode''', with communication therefor new arrivals, new speakers, new devs, new coordinators and really push forward with new events/workshop, funds and SMART features. <br />
::@[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]], I'am currently writing down structuring "community how to" to ease new contributor's jumping in (see [[LinguaLibre:Roles]], [[LinguaLibre:Workshops]], {{tl|Grants table}}). You are doing a nice push on communication (It's FOSS) and with your questions you are mapping out Lili's needs. Pamputt and WikiLucas are following our progresses. All this is pretty interesting. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would like to work on the "Public Relations" Department of LinguaLibre! - EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) : '''Any PR campaign would fail miserably if there is no search function.''' I explain the reasons at the end of this section: [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]]<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 23:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Sound good :) Your outreach to YouTubers and popular FOSS blogs is spot on.<br />
::I am back from a wikibreak, I am cleaning up some last pages, then since the maintenance side is stable I would like to focus my energy on projects design –recording rare languages, technology, PR campaign– and associated grant requests to secure funding and the actual realization of those visions. We can collaborate. You lead on the PR : design your campaign. I can review and help it to fit some Grants formats. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I created a new wiki page in the "events" section of a "PR Campaign for 2022". Please visit [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]] and participate in the discussion with new ideas. EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) I will NOT contribute anymore to a PR campaign. the reasons are explained as comment on the relevant section [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 21:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating a LL catgory for a dialect ==<br />
<br />
Would be grateful if someone could tell me if it's possible to create a LL category for a dialect?<br />
<br />
We're working in Konkani, which has its own (but small) Wikipedia at http://gom.wikipedia.org Under Konkani, there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. <br />
<br />
Would like to create a category for Saxtti (the Salcete dialect of Konkani). This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. Also, it would allow the recordings of many others which might have already been done in Konkani as a how.<br />
<br />
Question: How do we create space for the dialects of a language? <br />
<br />
Thanks very much, in advance! --[[User:Fredericknoronha|Fredericknoronha]] ([[User talk:Fredericknoronha|talk]]) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello {{ping|Fredericknoronha}} and welcome to Lingua Libre. I imported {{Q|700683}} (gom) as it was not on Lingua Libre yet. On Lingua Libre, dialects are treated the same way as languages. You can create an element for your dialect on Wikidata (example for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35359 auvergnat dialect]) and tell us once it is ready, so that we can import it on Lingua Libre with an admin tool. You can also directly create an element for your dialect on Lingua Libre, following the steps described at [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Add_a_new_language|Help:Add a new language]] and taking example of {{Q|1186}}. Don't hesitate to ping an admin if you have any questions.<br />
:All the best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::''« there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. […] This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. »''<br />
::If the writing are similar but only the pronunciation differs depending on where the speaker comes from, it looks like different accents.<br />
::Recordings are specific to a word, a language and a speaker. Which means me recording in French the word "bonjour" will be one audio file on Lili. WikiLucas can record in French the same word "bonjour", it will create an other audio file on Lili. My recording(s), since i come from the South West, will carry the southern accent. Recordings by WikiLucas, who lives 700km East of me, will cary the Lyon area accent. Lingualibre will store 2 recordings, one per user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Hello {{u|Fredericknoronha}}, I have imported {{Q|701734}} so that you can now record words in that dialect. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Feedback about Lingua Libre by Professor Carol Genetti, PhD ==<br />
<br />
'''Dear Members of Lingua Libre,<br />
'''<br />
I am pleased to share a message from Professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Genetti Carol Genetti], a linguist and leading expert in endangered languages. Professor Genetti is author of one of the best books in the field of Linguistics called "How Languages Work". Her vast knowledge and experience are extremely valuable and after reviewing Lingua Libre she said:<br />
<br />
''Thank you for contacting me and letting me know about this initiative. It is an interesting idea. I especially like the multilingual menus -- very helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Are you aware of [https://www.endangeredlanguages.com/ this website], hosted by the University of Hawaii (and, I believe, funded by Google). So one thing that occurs to me is the proliferation of such sites. How will people in an endangered-language community find out about their options, and then make an informed choice about which of these online resources will be best over time for their communities? Should such efforts cross-reference each other?''<br />
<br />
''My second thought has to do with longevity. It takes a significant commitment to support a site like this over time. The challenge is having someone who can keep such sites funded, working, organized, relevant, and engaging users over time. How will you make sure that the data will be available in 10, 50, 150 years? Maybe you get that automatically by being associated with Wikipedia. If so, state that. Also, there should be a clear statement of how such data might be used, and by whom, so speakers know that if they record a wordlist, someone might use if for some purpose without their permission (is that right?).<br />
''<br />
''I'm sorry to have to bring a down-to-earth message to the inspiration and passion for endangered languages that has clearly fueled this work, but having seen other initiatives stumble in this way, I wanted to be sure that you are thinking about this. Speakers will be entrusting you with such valuable pieces of their lives and their cultures. How will you safeguard this over time? Let people know.<br />
''<br />
''Those issues aside, here are a couple of other comments:''<br />
<br />
* There should be a statement targeted for speakers of endangered languages - why would they want to do this? What is the value for them and their communities? What will happen to the recordings? etc.''<br />
* Will you provide speakers with suggestions for what vocabulary to record, e.g. greetings, colors, verb forms?''<br />
* It would be helpful if it was clear from the large list of languages which ones have recordings. Maybe put those in a different color font?''<br />
* It would be helpful to include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language. Otherwise, someone's grandkids coming to this in 30 years will not know what the words mean.''<br />
* Do you want to move beyond single words to a piece of connected discourse, such as a short poem or story, a song, or the reading of some common text (such as a sentence from the UN Declaration for Linguistic Rights)?''<br />
* Should there be a means to flag inappropriate content?''<br />
<br />
''I hope that you find this helpful. And I'm so glad you liked my book! It is lovely to hear that people have found it helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Carol Genetti''<br />
''Vice Provost for Graduate and Postdoctoral Programs''<br />
''NYU Abu Dhabi''<br />
''(she/her/hers)''<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, this is some interesting feedback.<br />
:* "What will happen to the recordings?": Our homepage lacks such important information. We should plan a redesign for 2022 (inspired by the homepage of [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/ Common Voice]?) so that we finally have a homepage that properly explains what Lingua Libre is and can do.<br />
:* "Suggestions of things to record?": This already exists. They're called Lists. We have some pending improvements on that matter (easier to find and contribute to, etc.)<br />
:* "Show which languages have recordings": The datasets page could help, but I guess it would be interesting to put that on an easy-to-find page (again, like [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/languages Common Voice's languages page]?)<br />
:* "Include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language": we only support "transcription" for now.<br />
:** How could we even "link" the recordings to translations? (Lexemes? Plain text?)<br />
:** Who would have to do that? (the locutor? a dedicated team of contributors?)<br />
:** Where would it be done? (in the RecordWizard?)<br />
:** -> That's an interesting thing to think about, but might be slightly out of scope right now<br />
:* "Sentences, stories, songs...?": Yes, indeed. The Record Wizard is already able to do that (with some config tweaks that have to be done by the locutor), but it would be great to streamline this further. Dedicated UI, ability to record an audiobook (or Wikipedia, Wikisource, Wikinews article) as a mixture of sentences that can be stored locally before being all merged together into one audio file sent to Commons, ability for multiple contributors to work on the same book/article... That's something we should also discuss with the [https://librivox.org/ Librivox] folks: they use Audacity so far, but they might be interested in a tool that's better suited to their needs.<br />
:* "flag inappropriate content?": My insight is focused on technical stuff. This sounds more like some editorial guidelines that would have to be debated by the community.<br />
:* "'''longevity'''?": Should Lingua Libre vanish tomorrow, the audio recordings are not lost. They're all stored on Wikimedia Commons, and that makes them as "immortal" as files stored on hard disks, SSDs, CDs or magnetic bands and mirrored half a dozen times around the world can be. However, I can't say much about our Wikibase, which, at the current time, '''is the only place where all the recordings and locutor-related metadata is stored'''. That's a serious single point of failure. There are no dumps and therefore no mirrorring. We'll definitely have to discuss it with Wikimedia France and the Tech Team.<br />
:Hopefully my answers are clear and comprehensible. I'm pleased to have received feedback from Pr. Genetti. Now it's our turn to take matters in our hands! --[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to delete lists? ==<br />
:{{Done}} <br />
Hello, recently I completed some lists. Now everything is done and those lists are needless. Is there any possibility to delete lists? Greetings --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} hello, admins can delete those lists. The lists you created are [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?target=Onkel+Tomm&namespace=142&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions here]. Which ones should I delete ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Hello Yug, please delete all 8 lists, because they are all finally finished. Thanks. --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 13:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} We are clean ! thank for asking, it keeps the place clean :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Case study ==<br />
Hello all, I noticed a file upload which gather interesting use cases.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Item || Label || Speaker || Account || Filename || Category<br />
|-<br />
| [[Q709231]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q709231&oldid=689510 arch.]) || "Ingenieur" || [[Q674858]] 'fleur' || User:Beat_Ruest || [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] || [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest]]<br />
|-<br />
| — || Mispelling of "Ingénieur" || – || – || Carries the misspelling || Category page was not created, therefor virtually "lost" to Wikimedia Commons and [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
* Question 1: How do we handle mispelling ? I assume renaming ALL THREE of the [[Q709231]]'s label AND Property:P3 'recording' AND Wikimedia file [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] rename. Is that ok or will it break something ?<br />
* Question 2: Category should be automatically created. How do we go for this ? I assume a request on [[LinguaLibre:Bot]]<br />
* Question 3: What about the category by *speaker/voice* ([[Q709231]] 'fleur'), which curently doesn't exist, and which can have multiple speakers with the same name 'fleur' ?<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Question 1: it is a good start. I guess, we need to fix it both on Lingua Libre and on Wikimedia Commons<br />
: Question 2: you speak about categories on Wikimedia Commons? If so, I guess a bot can do it (Lingua Libre Bot or another one).<br />
: Question 3: actually the speaker is identified as "fleur (Beat Ruest)". Only one locutor of Beat Ruest can use the nickname "fleur".<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Q1, Q2 agree.<br />
::Q3 : {{ping|Pamputt}} check the categories on [[:commons:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} you mean the problem is [[:c:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] is categorized in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest" and not in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by fleur (Beat Ruest)" or similar name? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, we dont have categorization by '''speaker''' "Fleur (Beat Ruest)". Low importance, but could be a feature request. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gestion de doublons ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]'' (new, needs review!)<br />
<br />
Bonsoir !<br />
<br />
Il y a-t-il une gestion de doublons dans LL pour les mots d'une même langue ? [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 13:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]], si un même locuteur enregistre le même mot alors l'enregistrement précédent sera écrasé (un même locuteur ne peut enregistrer qu'une seule fois le même mot). En revanche, rien n'empêche l'enregistrement d'un même mot par plusieurs locuteurs et locutrices différentes, c'est même un des objectifs de Lingua Libre : mettre en lumière la diversité des prononciations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] : Comment sont alors gérés les homographes non homophones ? ^^ [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]] ([[User talk:Totodu74|talk]]) 00:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Bonjour [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], il est possible d'ajouter des indications entre parenthèses (cette information est stockée à l'aide de {{P|18}}). Voir par exemple {{Q|1685}} et {{Q|1686}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
:::@[[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], salut, la question des homographes est en partie résolue dans nos langues africaines qui sont essentiellement des langues à tons. --[[User:Rçag|Rçag]] ([[User talk:Rçag|talk]]) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Rçag, could you explain your solution a bit so we learn from it.<br />
:{{Ping|BamLifa|Rçag|Pamputt|Totodu74}} the page [[Help:Homographs]] is there to gather best practices. It's new, review and edits welcome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Comment changer de pseudonyme ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, sur les projets de Wikimedia, mon pseudonyme est Manjiro91 (et anciennement GamissimoYT), comment change-t-on de pseudonyme ?<br />
[[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|GamissimoYT}}. Lingua Libre utilise le même pseudo que celui qui est en utilisation sur Wikimedia Commons. Donc si vous voulez utiliser le pesudonyme Manjiro91, déconnectez-vous de Lingua Libre, puis de Wikimedia Commons. Ensuite, connectez vous à Commons avec le pseudo Manjiro91 et enfin reconnectez vous à Lingua Libre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
{{Notif|Pamputt}} Mon pseudonyme Wikimedia Commons est Manjiro91 (anciennement GamissimoYT mais le changement de pseudonyme ne s'effectue pas sur LiLi. [[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|GamissimoYT}}, tu as bien fait les connexions/déconnexions dans l'ordre que j'ai indiqué ? Si tu es sûr que tu es connecté avec Manjiro91 sur Wikimedia Commons, alors tu peux essayer de te déconnecter de Lingua Libre et te reconnecter dans la foulée. Essayer de vider le cache du navigateur peut peut-être aidé aussi. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging of items about languages ==<br />
<br />
Hi y'all,<br />
<br />
For the record, I just merge a couple of items about the same language:<br />
* {{Q|52071}} in {{Q|73}}<br />
* {{Q|139228}} in {{Q|183}}<br />
* {{Q|170137}} in {{Q|359}}<br />
* {{Q|683869}} in {{Q|418}}<br />
* {{Q|646169}} in {{Q|6714}}<br />
* {{Q|570518}} in {{Q|52069}}<br />
* {{Q|538624}} in {{Q|84030}}<br />
* {{Q|646173}} in {{Q|390314}}<br />
* {{Q|646161}} in {{Q|502754}}<br />
* {{Q|570510}} in {{Q|489393}}<br />
<br />
I detected them with this SPARQL query: <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql"><br />
SELECT ?idWD (COUNT(?item) AS ?compte) (GROUP_CONCAT(?item) AS ?items) WHERE {<br />
?item prop:P2 entity:Q4 ; prop:P12 ?idWD .<br />
}<br />
GROUP BY ?idWD<br />
HAVING ( ?compte > 1 )<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
Ping {{ping|WikiLucas00}} it seems you are responsible for some of them...<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks VIGNERON for finding them and cleaning it. Now what to do with recording items that use the doublon language item (for example with [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q52071|Duala]]). I think we must modify {{P|4}} for all recording items so that languages are not counted twice and also to clean up the database (there are also transcription problems for items listed in the Duala example). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you {{ping|VIGNERON}} for pointing these out. As you can see, most of them were not created manually but using the tool (the pages wheighted circa 4kB, with labels in many languages). It seems that the Lingua Importer tool has (or had?) a problem, but I could not reproduce it (trying to import languages that are already in LL wikibase).<br/> During last summer's hackathon we talked a bit about languages in our wikibase, but I can't remember why we need to have language elements in our Wikibase, and not just use the existing base of WikiData 🤔 — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MediaWiki customizations of LinguaLibre ==<br />
<br />
Love the MediaWiki skin of LinguaLibre and I am curious of skin and customizations made. Who are the authors? (can not see credits) --[[User:Zblace|Zblace]] ([[User talk:Zblace|talk]]) 10:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The skin is known as BlueLL. The source code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL github]. It has been developed by Wikimedia France in 2020. That's said, it is true there is no licence and credits on Github. I will ask to {{u|Adélaïde Calais WMFr}} if she remember anything so that I can the missing informations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New property: translation ==<br />
Hello, I've created {{P|38}} to be used in case there is no writing in the recording language but instead a translation in the vehicular language. See for example what I did [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q212431&type=revision&diff=743039&oldid=191330 here] and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q58994&type=revision&diff=743044&oldid=580313 there]. Do you agree with that? Any comment? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:It's a good idea! Many users tend to add a translation as they find it important for other people to have. It will also be handy for cases like your second example, where we only have the translation but not the transcription of the source language: we will be able to query the base to see all audios of a language that have a translation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::I am thinking about a way to populate automatically this property via the Record Wizard. Currently, it seems that the Record Wizard populates {{P|18}} when something is written between brackets (see {{Q|1685}} for example but I have not checked recently). So, if we modify the Record Wizard code, it is possible to recognize this is a translation in another language and so to populate {{P|38}}. But I would like to be sure to propose the best way to do it before asking for such development. The idea is to be managed automatically (or at least not completely manually). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 00:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone ! <br />
<br/>This week, Wikimedia France is preparing its budget for the fiscal year to come : July 2022 to June 2023. If there are things you would like to see done or to do with our help on Lingua Libre, please share it on this page : https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection <br />
<br/>Have a great week-end ! --[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 17:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
: {{u|marreromarco}} Thank you for your suggestions. However, I have some reservations about "Add function to "Request" a Pronunciation to Native Speakers" at this current stage for two reasons. First, this will require quite a bit of moderation to correct requests for grammar and spelling (e.g. HASBAND) as well as remove terrible requests. This will place a large burden on a few users and can easily lead to questionable decisions by moderators. Second, Forvo is flooded with requests that are either overly specific (e.g. "He came back from abyss and won the tie.") and, therefore, likely benefit only one user. IMHO, Rdrg109 proposal to focus on providing pronunciations for entries on the various wiktionaries is a better approach to building up the LL at this point. It will provide a solid foundation for users to find any word in LL. It might be a better time to open up LL to general requests once this project is completed and the community has grown. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 15:49, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to get the city country lablel in sparql (Python) ==<br />
<br />
I'm working on an Anki extension for LL, but I'm having a little trouble writing the sparql query. In short, I want to be able to get the city and country for a recording in LL. However, when I query P14, I get the link to the item instead of 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'} or 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'}. Instead I hope to get city:"" and country "France" for the first query city:"Paris" and country:"France" for the second one. Any ideas? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Languageseeker}} thanks for your work on a Anki extension. Could you post here the query you have now? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{u|Pamputt}} . The query that I'm using is a very lightly modified version of the bot query. <br />
<br />
<nowiki>ENDPOINT = "https://lingualibre.org/bigdata/namespace/wdq/sparql"<br />
API = "https://lingualibre.org/api.php"<br />
BASEQUERY = """<br />
SELECT DISTINCT<br />
?record ?file ?transcription ?recorded<br />
?languageIso ?languageQid ?languageWMCode<br />
?residence ?learningPlace ?languageLevel<br />
?speaker ?linkeduser<br />
WHERE {<br />
?record prop:P2 entity:Q2 .<br />
?record prop:P3 ?file .<br />
?record prop:P4 ?language .<br />
?record prop:P5 ?speaker .<br />
?record prop:P6 ?recorded .<br />
?record prop:P7 ?transcription .<br />
?language prop:P13 ?languageIso.<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel .<br />
?speaker prop:P11 ?linkeduser .<br />
?speaker prop:P14 ?residence .<br />
?speaker llp:P4 ?speakerLanguagesStatement .<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llv:P4 ?speakerLanguages .<br />
OPTIONAL { ?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel . }<br />
FILTER( ?speakerLanguages = ?language) .<br />
SERVICE wikibase:label {<br />
bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" .<br />
}<br />
#filters<br />
}"""</nowiki><br />
<br />
:: Currently, I'm running it with filters = "" because it seems that a query for a single term takes around 70s, while fetching a single transcription takes about 145 seconds. My plan is to group the results by transcription and then write that into a json file to avoid the costly query. Basically, I need the speaker name, the term, their country, their city, the ISO code of the language, date created, and the filename, languageLevel. <br />
<br />
For example, for the term un chien, the json would look like:<br />
{ "term": {"un chien": {"speaker": "Julien Baley", "language": "fra", "city": "", "country": "France", "recorded": "2020-11-27", "filename": "LL-Q150_(fra)-Julien_Baley-un_chien.wav", "languageLevel": "Q15"}}} [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user ==<br />
<br />
I wrote a [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader python program] that downloads all the files created by one user. For video files, it downloads the full webm. For audio files, the default is to download the wave file. However, for audio files, you can optionally choose either mp3 or ogg files. Currently, the configuration requires a minor modification of lluad.py. If there is strong demand, I will write a command line parser for it. Please report any bugs or errors on the github page. Feature requests are welcome. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=763296LinguaLibre:Chat room2022-05-20T23:17:34Z<p>Languageseeker: /* How to get the city country lablel in sparql (Python) */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
{{Lang-CR}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
{{LL:Chat room/FAQ}}<br />
__TOC__<br />
<!-- **** DO NOT EDIT CONTENT ABOVE **** --><br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publish on Wikimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just tested, but my records are not published on Commons. My tests: on Firefox, then on Chrome, with 50, then with 1 expression (s), with license CC3.0-BY-SA and CC1.0. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 06:51, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[[File:LiLi April 2021 - Publish on Wikimedia Commons.png|thumb|Problème de publication sur Wikimedia Commons]]<br />
:[[phab:T281636]] —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 07:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Usually I have the same with the first two recordings in a session. Then I can upload them again at the end. Try again with more recordings, and using "retry filed upload" button. [[User:Poemat|Poemat]] ([[User talk:Poemat|talk]]) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: Yup, I had this bug many times. (I say "had" because I don't remember having encountered it after the fire incident.) Just don't give up and it should be published eventually. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::(As of 3 May 2021 and as I checked, I'm not aware of any code changes ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/commits/master history]) which may have of affected this. Seb35 made some other code change this same day.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
I add a user who has the same problem: {{u|Le Commissaire}}. —[[User:Eihel-LiLi|Eihel-LiLi]] ([[User talk:Eihel-LiLi|talk]]) 15:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Bonjour {{ping|Seb35}}, Faudrait voir avec {{u|Le Commissaire}} si le problème persiste aussi (avant de clore le ticket Phab. Sincères salutations. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 10:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::J’ai mis un message à Le Commissaire sur sa page de discussion.<br />
::::::Le problème que vous avez eu était spécifique à votre compte, c’est peut-être arrivé à d’autres personnes mais ça semble assez rare. Aussi, à partir du moment où un utilisateur a réussi à faire un envoi vers Commons, alors c’est un problème différent du vôtre ([[:phabricator:T275957|celui-ci, qui ressemble mais l’erreur est intermittente]]). Plus globalement, il faudrait que le message d’erreur soit explicite plutôt que d’aller à chercher dans la console du navigateur, je vais ouvrir un ticket Phabricator en ce sens. [[User:Seb35|Seb35]] ([[User talk:Seb35|talk]]) 10:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exclusion lists ==<br />
If anyone uses the regularly updated [[user:Olafbot|Olafbot's]] lists of wanted words ([[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]], etc.), and spotted an item that should be removed without recording, you can use the brand new exclusion lists to remove it. For example on the list [[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]] there was the word "abandonar", which apparently doesn't belong to the contemporary French corpus. Having added it on the exclusion list (here: [[user:Olafbot/exclusion list/Fra]]) the bot knows this item should never appear in French lists it maintains, and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries&diff=619214&oldid=606068 removes it] during the next update. <br />
<br />
Each "Lemmas without audio" list ({{Olafbot-wikt}}) has a corresponding exclusion list ({{Olafbot-exclusion}}). I hope it will help.<br />
<br />
Normally I would add a link to the exclusion list in a description of each lemmas list, but unfortunately, Lingua Libre engine doesn't allow adding any kind of comments or descriptions to lists, so this ad is the only way to spread a word about the new functionality. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}} Thank you so much for this useful new function! Indeed, the Record Wizard does not yet understand comments, categories nor templates on List pages, but this will be considered for future updates. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 18:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ajout d'une nouvelle langue ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour !<br />
<br />
Je souhaite ajouter la langue Q3196953 mais en suivant la [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Help:Add_a_new_language/fr procédure], je ne vois pas LinguaImporter. Quelqu'un peut-il me dire pourquoi?<br />
<br />
Cdt,<br />
BamLifa<br />
: {{ping|BamLifa}} c'est parce que tu n'es pas administrateur. Je viens d'importer le {{Q|646152}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, merci beaucoup pour cette précision. Si cette option n'est réservée qu'aux admins, pourquoi en parler dans la doc sans cette précision ? En plus, vue la multitude des langues que nous avons qui n'existent pas encore chez Lingua libre, ne pensez-vous pas que vous devriez simplifier cette tâche ? J'ai encore une autre langue à ajouter, le Bira (bila). [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 12:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|BamLifa}} c'est indiqué sur cette page (c'est même le titre de la section (Outil pour les administrateurs)). Je ne me rappelle pas pourquoi c'est réservé aux admins mais ça limite au moins les vandales qui voudraient importer des choses qui ne sont pas des langues. Bref, j'ai importé le {{Q|656403}} et le {{Q|656404}}. Si ce ne sont pas les bonnes langues, peux-tu me donner le code ISO 639-3 correspondant (ou au moins l'identifiant Wikidata) ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Merci beaucoup. [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 05:34, 22 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lists still don't work properly ==<br />
<br />
{{Ping|WikiLucas00}} {{Ping|Poslovitch}} It's better than [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Lists_stopped_working|before]], but still, sometimes the Record Wizard hangs when a list is chosen.<br />
Then I have to reload the page, and try again. Usually the second or the third time of trying the same list, it starts to work.<br />
Probably a race condition. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}}It also happens to me sometimes, but I think that it could be related to the button for removing words you already recorded. When you load a list of words you never recorded (typically Olafbot's lists), ticking the button seems to kill the loading. Best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 10:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you. Indeed, with this switch unchecked everything seems to work. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 16:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liste des mots à prononcer ==<br />
<br />
Salut ! Existe-t-il une page où des mots peuvent être ajoutés pour qu'un bon samaritain puisse parler ? [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 11:30, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|Vivaelcelta}}, les listes sont faites pour cela. Vous pouvez [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Create_your_own_lists|créer votre propre liste]] qui pourra ensuite être enregistrée par n'importe qui. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci {{u|Pamputt}}. — [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 22:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Projet Outils pour la patrouille ==<br />
:''See [[LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol assistance tool prototyping project]].''<br />
{{LangSwitch<br />
|fr=Salut,<br />
<br />
cette semaine commence un projet menés par des étudiants des formations IARF-RODECO de l’Université Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier concernant le prototypage d’outils de patrouille. Je suis, assisté par Adélaïde Calais, le superviseur de ce projet. Les étudiants sont en informatique avec une spécialisation en intelligence artificielle. L’idée est de leur faire prototyper (voire développer) des outils pour aider la patrouille de Lingua Libre en détectant automatiquement toutes sortes de problèmes. Nous avons déjà identifier quelques problèmes : clics, grésillements, bruits parasites et mauvaises prononciations (libellés et enregistrements pas raccord).<br />
<br />
Et nous avons besoin de la communauté sur deux points : <br />
# y a-t-il d’autres problèmes auxquels vous pensez ?<br />
# nous avons besoin, pour que les étudiants puissent travailler, d’enregistrements avec défauts. Si vous les avez réenregistrés, c’est pas grave, Commons a un historique. N’hésitez pas à nous communiquer les enregistrements qui ont ou avaient des défauts !<br />
<br />
Enfin, j’ai créé une page de projet accessible [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|ici]] (page traduite).<br />
<br />
(Si certain·es peuvent traduire ce message en anglais, c’est super cool.)<br />
<br />
À+,<br />
|en=Hi,<br />
<br />
This week, a project lead by student of University Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier is starting. It will be about the prototyping of patrolling tools. I supervise this project, assisted by Adélaïde Calais. The students study computer science with a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. The aim is to have them prototyping (or even developing) tools to help Lingua Libre's patrol, by automatically detecting any kind of mistake/error related to the files. We already identified a few types of mistakes: clicks, crackles, pops and labelling issues (wrong label/wrong language).<br />
<br />
We need the community on two points : <br />
# are there other problems you could think of? <br />
# we need some recordings having issues, in order for the students to be able to work. If you already recorded them again, it is not a big deal, Commons has a file history. Don't hesitate to provide us the files that have or had problems.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I created a project page, available [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|here]].<br />
<br />
See you,}}<br />
[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 09:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], Translated page —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 19:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], [[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde]], could you specify the dates for this project ? <br />
::Also, were your point 1 and two answered by the community somewhere ? (If not I could give it a try) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug}} Hi, I updated the project page with the dates. And I didn’t get any answers to my questions. [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 11:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rashidun Caliphate ==<br />
<br />
Hello {{ping|Zinou2go}},<br />
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q13955_(ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة_الراشدة.wav LL-Q13955 (ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة الراشدة.wav] is problematic (currently {{Q|Q204439}} on LiLi): it contains several cuts (clicks). I proposed the file for deletion in Commons. The recordings seem to be working better, could you record Rashidun Caliphate again? I didn't check the other records, but they are likely to have "clicks" as well. Also, can an admin delete this item on LiLi, please? Cordially. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Eihel}} Please do not nominate files for deletion before asking for the speaker to record it again and waiting a while for their answer. Also, these recordings will come useful for the team currently working on the audio issues of Lingua Libre, so we'd better not delete them (I thought you read my messages on Discord about this). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{Ping|WikiLucas00}}, J'ai enlevé la suppression sur Commons. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Code of Conduct ==<br />
Hi everyone, I just noticed again MediaWiki's [[:mw:Code of Conduct]] (2015) and Wikimedia Foundation's [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02). Back in 2015, 0x010C included the first one as a condition to contribute to [https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard RecordWizard's codebase]. As far as I know, Lili.org and its community, so far, [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Code+of+conduct has no Code of Conduct]. We may be ''implicitely'' binded by it or by some Wikimedia France's Code of Conduct, but it would be cleaner to ''explicitly'' adopt one and display it here, in written. We could therefor do the following :<br />
# Short round to confirm with have nothing in place so far.<br />
# Vote for 2 months to adopt the most recent [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02)<br />
# Copy the text into [[LinguaLibre:Universal Code of Conduct]].<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Pre-discussion ===<br />
Do we already have a Code of Conduct binding LinguaLibre ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Vote ===<br />
''Are you for or against adopting the [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021) as a code of conduct for LinguaLibre's community ?''<br><br />
''Possible votes : {{tl|support}} • {{tl|weak support}} • {{tl|weak oppose}} • {{tl|oppose}}''<br />
* {{Support}} (proposer) — better to be explicit, have a framework in place, just to be clear to all on where we stand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre website should be more appealing to Language Learners ==<br />
:''See also [https://forvo.com Forvo.com].''<br />
It would be useful if LinguaLibre follows the example of Forvo to increase the number of language learners interested in the Project.<br />
<br />
Forvo.com has a way of displaying the information that engage users and makes it very easy to find pronunciations. <br />
<br />
For example, if someone wants to learn how to pronounce "Honoré de Balzac" in French, it would be faster to find the audio on Forvo than on LinguaLibre. Also, Forvo displays the data in a way more appealing to language learners:<br />
* https://forvo.com/search/Honoré_de_Balzac/<br />
* https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Honoré+de+Balzac<br />
'''Would it be possible to improve the way that data is displayed on LinguaLibre to make it more appealing to Language Learners ?'''<br />
''In such way, the number of active users recording audios would increase significantly.'' -- [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]]<br />
:Some people previously reported such "issue". There is a [[phab:T252319|ticket]] on Phabricator to keep this in mind. However, the priority is currently given to develop patrol tools for Lingua Libre and we do not expect to see major improvements related to the audio brosing in the coming months (at least if we have no more external developers). I think it is like this because Lingua Libre has been though so that it helps for recording, not for listening; the second is let to the other Wikimedia projects, mainly Wiktionaries et Wikidata. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::YES ! There are oral discussions and proposals in this direction, but LinguaLibre being a volunteers-based team, we are moving slowly. Forvo is a for-profit entity, it locks the copyright and resale of recordings made on its platform to the speaker-creator and to themselves, to then sell those recordings with a profit. They therefor have money and swift decision-making to sustain their UI/UX efforts. We are shorter on those sides. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Sound Library's forking and hacking ===<br />
'''On the [[LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library|Sound Library]] side''', I was able to duplicate/fork it, which allows to start hack its CSS. Copy those codes into your own namespace :<br />
* [[User:Yug/common.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/common.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]] → [[Special:MyPage/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]]<br />
In those codes, you then have to replace all occurrences of "Yug" by your username, and it's should work. You can start hacking toward a more elegant interface. Note: the JS copy is in your *personal* JS and has a "stop" condition so the various JS instances won't fight. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allow recording only in the user's Native Language to avoid passing "mispronunciations" to Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
I started a discussion on the German Wiktionary because some words on LinguaLibre are not available on the DeWikt. The German Community told me that LinguaLibre adds words into Commons, but the Bot only accepts audios from “few” trusted users using a filter. <br />
<br />
The English and German Wiktionaries use a bot called "DerbethBot" to add audios from Commons. However, the English Wiktionary community asked to block Lingua Libre's recordings because there were non-native speakers recording audios and the Bot had no way to differentiate them from Native speakers. After the audios were introduced in the English Wiktionary they had to forbid adding audios from LinguaLibre:<br />
<br />
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2020/July#Labeling_non-native_audio<br />
<br />
I believe that it is necessary to avoid giving “mispronunciations” to Wictionaries. That is similar to vandalism on a Wiktionary if the reader doesn't know that it is hearing a bad pronunciation and believes that it is “native speaker”:<br />
<br />
''Some suggestions:''<br />
1) Would it be possible to name the audios files to specify if the speaker is a native or not? For example, if a French speaker records the word "maison" it could be named '''"maison-fr-native.ogg"''' . If a language learner records the same word : '''"maison-fr-learner.ogg"'''<br />
<br />
2) A radical way to address the issue would be to only allow to record in one's native language. Of course, users could change it, but strong warnings could be added and always remind people to record only their native language. Forvo seems to take this approach.<br />
<br />
It might be valuable for Linguists to have recordings of non-native speakers to study their accent features in an L-2 Language. However, in my humble opinion the pronunciations added to Wiktionary should be only native speakers and bots should have a way to differentiate them.<br />
<br />
Link to the German Wiktionary discussion about LinguaLibre: <br />
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Teestube#:~:text=von%20technischer%20seite%20gibt%20es%20keinem%20problem%2C%20zwei%20bots%20auf%20de.wiktionary%20arbeiten%20zu%20lassen.<br />
:Hi, this depends on the Wikitionary policy, and it could be different from a language to another one. Anyway, it is already possible to select only recordings done by native speaker. To do that, the speaker has to fill the {{P|16}} property ith the value {{Q|15}} (see for example {{Q|466}}). Other values for {{P|16}} are given [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q5|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sursilvan ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
[[Special:Contributions/Franz.Roos.1955|User:Franz.Roos.1955]] made 2 recordings in [[:en:wp:Sursilvan]] : rauna ([[Q689785]]), tschitta ([[Q689786]]). Sursilvan has no iso code. Do we have a procedure for such languages ? (I forgot if the case already shown up). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:There is not issue. It simply uses the Wikidata identifier when there is no ISO code. Se for example {{Q|1186}}. To record in such languages, we have to create an item for this language/dialect on Lingua Libre, and this is already done for {{Q|74905}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Thank Pamputt for the clarification. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[commons:commons:structured data]] ==<br />
<br />
I've been very pleased with LL's tooling, that does so much of the process of uploading to Commons, sensible naming, description-writing, and categorisation for me; however, I have an idea for an additional step LL could automate. This is in Commons' no-longer-so-new structured data section, which manifests (among other ways) as a tab on the file page.<br />
<br />
As an example of what could be automatically added to a file's datastore, there is a property called 'audio transcription' which serves a similar role to Commons' TimedText subtitle functionality (silly example: [[commons:TimedText:051226-kakapo-billbooming.ogg.en.srt]]) but for shorter clips -- in other words, seemingly designed with applications like LinguaLibre in mind.<br />
<br />
Since these are of the so-called 'monolingual text' datatype, the source language can be specified (or where not part of the main set of languages Wikimedia uses, the special code 'mis' is used and 'language of work or name' used as a qualifier) at the same time as the actual text that is being spoken, which LL has access to since the audio file started out as a text prompt!<br />
<br />
What think y'all? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 04:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Arlo Barnes}} there is [[phab:T239272|Phabricator ticket]] about this topic. Currently there are not yet all properties on Wikidata to fit all Lingua Libre properties. For example, I [[d:Wikidata:Property proposal/language level|proposed to create]] a property for the language level of a speaker but it did not get enough support. SO I guess, we should first list all properties we would like to add on SDC. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [Feature Request] Play next sound automatically while checking recordings ==<br />
<br />
After recording sounds it is important to check them to verify their quality. However, it is very tiring to record 380 words and afterwards have to click 380 times on the ''“Next button”'' while checking them.<br />
<br />
'''After recording, would it be possible to add a button to "Play next sound automatically" ?''' [https://i.imgur.com/XwC34pj.png Screenshot Here] [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, it is already [[phab:T218372|tracked on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "How to use Lingua Libre for your language learning" ==<br />
<br />
I recently found a "new" way to benefit from the sounds on Lingua Libre. I would suggest that it could be advertised on the Lingua Libre main website and on the Wikipedia in French/English:<br />
* [[:en:wp:GoldenDict|GoldenDict]] is a FOSS Dictionary application very valuable for language learners. <br />
<br />
A way to benefit from Lingua Libre recordings is to download the datasets, unzip them and "load" the sounds on GoldenDict (as Sound Directories. [https://i.imgur.com/9avJDgS.png Screenshot here]). In such a way, users have easily an offline "Pronunciation Dictionary". It is very easy to do. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/axRHruk.png screenshot] of how it looks to GoldenDict the French word "fuir". Another example [https://i.imgur.com/Rq0nQCt.png here].<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre sounds can be used with GoldenDict OFFLINE. That is a huge advantage in developing countries, where language learners often do not have reliable internet connection.<br />
<br />
''It would be valuable to create a description on the Lingua Libre website about'' '''"How to use Lingua Libre sounds for your language learning"''' .<br />
<br />
There it would be possible to describe how to use the audios offline with GoldenDict, etc. If more methods are developed (Anki add-on), better GUI, Android App, etc. they could be explained there.--[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:1) '''Reuse of datasets :''' Yes ! Dataset download and reuse must be showcasted and strengthened. I think a "Reuses gallery" page could be created, with screenshot and minimal how-to for GoldenDict, Anki and others.<br />
:2) '''Anki:''' You are the 4th or 5th contributor to rise the need for an Anki add-on. We need to do something on this side, yes. It's more than 1~2 days work and too big for a volunteer work, so we need to apply for a grant. I'am looking in and mapping our options at the moment ({{tl|Grants table}}). At one point we have to jump in and design a project, yes.<br />
:3) For '''e-learning app''', a 5k€ project was designed by myself a year ago. The funding by local regional government was declined, but it could easily be refreshed.<br />
:We have to redesign some projects and apply in early 2022. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::The core question is the Human Resources. <br />
::'''*Daily routines*''' keeps WikiLucas, Pamputt, Poslovitch and myself –aka the community-side contributors— busy maintaining the place, welcoming and guiding new users, cleaning pages, etc. We are now quite smooth, successful and stable on this side.<br />
::To '''*push forward*''' on developments, UI, tools, e-learning, communication, grants, we each have one or two side projects in mind, pushing those <u>''slowly''</u>. But as always in FOSS projects the task ahead is much larger and we could achieve much more with more human resources.<br />
::'''Overall''', it's possible we are at a new turning right now. As things are stable, with road maps available, '''we just need 1 to 3 new coordinators and communicants contributors to tip the dynamic into forward-offensive mode''', with communication therefor new arrivals, new speakers, new devs, new coordinators and really push forward with new events/workshop, funds and SMART features. <br />
::@[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]], I'am currently writing down structuring "community how to" to ease new contributor's jumping in (see [[LinguaLibre:Roles]], [[LinguaLibre:Workshops]], {{tl|Grants table}}). You are doing a nice push on communication (It's FOSS) and with your questions you are mapping out Lili's needs. Pamputt and WikiLucas are following our progresses. All this is pretty interesting. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would like to work on the "Public Relations" Department of LinguaLibre! - EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) : '''Any PR campaign would fail miserably if there is no search function.''' I explain the reasons at the end of this section: [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]]<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 23:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Sound good :) Your outreach to YouTubers and popular FOSS blogs is spot on.<br />
::I am back from a wikibreak, I am cleaning up some last pages, then since the maintenance side is stable I would like to focus my energy on projects design –recording rare languages, technology, PR campaign– and associated grant requests to secure funding and the actual realization of those visions. We can collaborate. You lead on the PR : design your campaign. I can review and help it to fit some Grants formats. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I created a new wiki page in the "events" section of a "PR Campaign for 2022". Please visit [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]] and participate in the discussion with new ideas. EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) I will NOT contribute anymore to a PR campaign. the reasons are explained as comment on the relevant section [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 21:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating a LL catgory for a dialect ==<br />
<br />
Would be grateful if someone could tell me if it's possible to create a LL category for a dialect?<br />
<br />
We're working in Konkani, which has its own (but small) Wikipedia at http://gom.wikipedia.org Under Konkani, there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. <br />
<br />
Would like to create a category for Saxtti (the Salcete dialect of Konkani). This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. Also, it would allow the recordings of many others which might have already been done in Konkani as a how.<br />
<br />
Question: How do we create space for the dialects of a language? <br />
<br />
Thanks very much, in advance! --[[User:Fredericknoronha|Fredericknoronha]] ([[User talk:Fredericknoronha|talk]]) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello {{ping|Fredericknoronha}} and welcome to Lingua Libre. I imported {{Q|700683}} (gom) as it was not on Lingua Libre yet. On Lingua Libre, dialects are treated the same way as languages. You can create an element for your dialect on Wikidata (example for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35359 auvergnat dialect]) and tell us once it is ready, so that we can import it on Lingua Libre with an admin tool. You can also directly create an element for your dialect on Lingua Libre, following the steps described at [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Add_a_new_language|Help:Add a new language]] and taking example of {{Q|1186}}. Don't hesitate to ping an admin if you have any questions.<br />
:All the best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::''« there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. […] This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. »''<br />
::If the writing are similar but only the pronunciation differs depending on where the speaker comes from, it looks like different accents.<br />
::Recordings are specific to a word, a language and a speaker. Which means me recording in French the word "bonjour" will be one audio file on Lili. WikiLucas can record in French the same word "bonjour", it will create an other audio file on Lili. My recording(s), since i come from the South West, will carry the southern accent. Recordings by WikiLucas, who lives 700km East of me, will cary the Lyon area accent. Lingualibre will store 2 recordings, one per user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Hello {{u|Fredericknoronha}}, I have imported {{Q|701734}} so that you can now record words in that dialect. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Feedback about Lingua Libre by Professor Carol Genetti, PhD ==<br />
<br />
'''Dear Members of Lingua Libre,<br />
'''<br />
I am pleased to share a message from Professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Genetti Carol Genetti], a linguist and leading expert in endangered languages. Professor Genetti is author of one of the best books in the field of Linguistics called "How Languages Work". Her vast knowledge and experience are extremely valuable and after reviewing Lingua Libre she said:<br />
<br />
''Thank you for contacting me and letting me know about this initiative. It is an interesting idea. I especially like the multilingual menus -- very helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Are you aware of [https://www.endangeredlanguages.com/ this website], hosted by the University of Hawaii (and, I believe, funded by Google). So one thing that occurs to me is the proliferation of such sites. How will people in an endangered-language community find out about their options, and then make an informed choice about which of these online resources will be best over time for their communities? Should such efforts cross-reference each other?''<br />
<br />
''My second thought has to do with longevity. It takes a significant commitment to support a site like this over time. The challenge is having someone who can keep such sites funded, working, organized, relevant, and engaging users over time. How will you make sure that the data will be available in 10, 50, 150 years? Maybe you get that automatically by being associated with Wikipedia. If so, state that. Also, there should be a clear statement of how such data might be used, and by whom, so speakers know that if they record a wordlist, someone might use if for some purpose without their permission (is that right?).<br />
''<br />
''I'm sorry to have to bring a down-to-earth message to the inspiration and passion for endangered languages that has clearly fueled this work, but having seen other initiatives stumble in this way, I wanted to be sure that you are thinking about this. Speakers will be entrusting you with such valuable pieces of their lives and their cultures. How will you safeguard this over time? Let people know.<br />
''<br />
''Those issues aside, here are a couple of other comments:''<br />
<br />
* There should be a statement targeted for speakers of endangered languages - why would they want to do this? What is the value for them and their communities? What will happen to the recordings? etc.''<br />
* Will you provide speakers with suggestions for what vocabulary to record, e.g. greetings, colors, verb forms?''<br />
* It would be helpful if it was clear from the large list of languages which ones have recordings. Maybe put those in a different color font?''<br />
* It would be helpful to include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language. Otherwise, someone's grandkids coming to this in 30 years will not know what the words mean.''<br />
* Do you want to move beyond single words to a piece of connected discourse, such as a short poem or story, a song, or the reading of some common text (such as a sentence from the UN Declaration for Linguistic Rights)?''<br />
* Should there be a means to flag inappropriate content?''<br />
<br />
''I hope that you find this helpful. And I'm so glad you liked my book! It is lovely to hear that people have found it helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Carol Genetti''<br />
''Vice Provost for Graduate and Postdoctoral Programs''<br />
''NYU Abu Dhabi''<br />
''(she/her/hers)''<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, this is some interesting feedback.<br />
:* "What will happen to the recordings?": Our homepage lacks such important information. We should plan a redesign for 2022 (inspired by the homepage of [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/ Common Voice]?) so that we finally have a homepage that properly explains what Lingua Libre is and can do.<br />
:* "Suggestions of things to record?": This already exists. They're called Lists. We have some pending improvements on that matter (easier to find and contribute to, etc.)<br />
:* "Show which languages have recordings": The datasets page could help, but I guess it would be interesting to put that on an easy-to-find page (again, like [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/languages Common Voice's languages page]?)<br />
:* "Include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language": we only support "transcription" for now.<br />
:** How could we even "link" the recordings to translations? (Lexemes? Plain text?)<br />
:** Who would have to do that? (the locutor? a dedicated team of contributors?)<br />
:** Where would it be done? (in the RecordWizard?)<br />
:** -> That's an interesting thing to think about, but might be slightly out of scope right now<br />
:* "Sentences, stories, songs...?": Yes, indeed. The Record Wizard is already able to do that (with some config tweaks that have to be done by the locutor), but it would be great to streamline this further. Dedicated UI, ability to record an audiobook (or Wikipedia, Wikisource, Wikinews article) as a mixture of sentences that can be stored locally before being all merged together into one audio file sent to Commons, ability for multiple contributors to work on the same book/article... That's something we should also discuss with the [https://librivox.org/ Librivox] folks: they use Audacity so far, but they might be interested in a tool that's better suited to their needs.<br />
:* "flag inappropriate content?": My insight is focused on technical stuff. This sounds more like some editorial guidelines that would have to be debated by the community.<br />
:* "'''longevity'''?": Should Lingua Libre vanish tomorrow, the audio recordings are not lost. They're all stored on Wikimedia Commons, and that makes them as "immortal" as files stored on hard disks, SSDs, CDs or magnetic bands and mirrored half a dozen times around the world can be. However, I can't say much about our Wikibase, which, at the current time, '''is the only place where all the recordings and locutor-related metadata is stored'''. That's a serious single point of failure. There are no dumps and therefore no mirrorring. We'll definitely have to discuss it with Wikimedia France and the Tech Team.<br />
:Hopefully my answers are clear and comprehensible. I'm pleased to have received feedback from Pr. Genetti. Now it's our turn to take matters in our hands! --[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to delete lists? ==<br />
:{{Done}} <br />
Hello, recently I completed some lists. Now everything is done and those lists are needless. Is there any possibility to delete lists? Greetings --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} hello, admins can delete those lists. The lists you created are [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?target=Onkel+Tomm&namespace=142&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions here]. Which ones should I delete ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Hello Yug, please delete all 8 lists, because they are all finally finished. Thanks. --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 13:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} We are clean ! thank for asking, it keeps the place clean :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Case study ==<br />
Hello all, I noticed a file upload which gather interesting use cases.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Item || Label || Speaker || Account || Filename || Category<br />
|-<br />
| [[Q709231]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q709231&oldid=689510 arch.]) || "Ingenieur" || [[Q674858]] 'fleur' || User:Beat_Ruest || [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] || [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest]]<br />
|-<br />
| — || Mispelling of "Ingénieur" || – || – || Carries the misspelling || Category page was not created, therefor virtually "lost" to Wikimedia Commons and [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
* Question 1: How do we handle mispelling ? I assume renaming ALL THREE of the [[Q709231]]'s label AND Property:P3 'recording' AND Wikimedia file [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] rename. Is that ok or will it break something ?<br />
* Question 2: Category should be automatically created. How do we go for this ? I assume a request on [[LinguaLibre:Bot]]<br />
* Question 3: What about the category by *speaker/voice* ([[Q709231]] 'fleur'), which curently doesn't exist, and which can have multiple speakers with the same name 'fleur' ?<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Question 1: it is a good start. I guess, we need to fix it both on Lingua Libre and on Wikimedia Commons<br />
: Question 2: you speak about categories on Wikimedia Commons? If so, I guess a bot can do it (Lingua Libre Bot or another one).<br />
: Question 3: actually the speaker is identified as "fleur (Beat Ruest)". Only one locutor of Beat Ruest can use the nickname "fleur".<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Q1, Q2 agree.<br />
::Q3 : {{ping|Pamputt}} check the categories on [[:commons:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} you mean the problem is [[:c:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] is categorized in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest" and not in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by fleur (Beat Ruest)" or similar name? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, we dont have categorization by '''speaker''' "Fleur (Beat Ruest)". Low importance, but could be a feature request. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gestion de doublons ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]'' (new, needs review!)<br />
<br />
Bonsoir !<br />
<br />
Il y a-t-il une gestion de doublons dans LL pour les mots d'une même langue ? [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 13:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]], si un même locuteur enregistre le même mot alors l'enregistrement précédent sera écrasé (un même locuteur ne peut enregistrer qu'une seule fois le même mot). En revanche, rien n'empêche l'enregistrement d'un même mot par plusieurs locuteurs et locutrices différentes, c'est même un des objectifs de Lingua Libre : mettre en lumière la diversité des prononciations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] : Comment sont alors gérés les homographes non homophones ? ^^ [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]] ([[User talk:Totodu74|talk]]) 00:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Bonjour [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], il est possible d'ajouter des indications entre parenthèses (cette information est stockée à l'aide de {{P|18}}). Voir par exemple {{Q|1685}} et {{Q|1686}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
:::@[[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], salut, la question des homographes est en partie résolue dans nos langues africaines qui sont essentiellement des langues à tons. --[[User:Rçag|Rçag]] ([[User talk:Rçag|talk]]) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Rçag, could you explain your solution a bit so we learn from it.<br />
:{{Ping|BamLifa|Rçag|Pamputt|Totodu74}} the page [[Help:Homographs]] is there to gather best practices. It's new, review and edits welcome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Comment changer de pseudonyme ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, sur les projets de Wikimedia, mon pseudonyme est Manjiro91 (et anciennement GamissimoYT), comment change-t-on de pseudonyme ?<br />
[[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|GamissimoYT}}. Lingua Libre utilise le même pseudo que celui qui est en utilisation sur Wikimedia Commons. Donc si vous voulez utiliser le pesudonyme Manjiro91, déconnectez-vous de Lingua Libre, puis de Wikimedia Commons. Ensuite, connectez vous à Commons avec le pseudo Manjiro91 et enfin reconnectez vous à Lingua Libre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
{{Notif|Pamputt}} Mon pseudonyme Wikimedia Commons est Manjiro91 (anciennement GamissimoYT mais le changement de pseudonyme ne s'effectue pas sur LiLi. [[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|GamissimoYT}}, tu as bien fait les connexions/déconnexions dans l'ordre que j'ai indiqué ? Si tu es sûr que tu es connecté avec Manjiro91 sur Wikimedia Commons, alors tu peux essayer de te déconnecter de Lingua Libre et te reconnecter dans la foulée. Essayer de vider le cache du navigateur peut peut-être aidé aussi. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging of items about languages ==<br />
<br />
Hi y'all,<br />
<br />
For the record, I just merge a couple of items about the same language:<br />
* {{Q|52071}} in {{Q|73}}<br />
* {{Q|139228}} in {{Q|183}}<br />
* {{Q|170137}} in {{Q|359}}<br />
* {{Q|683869}} in {{Q|418}}<br />
* {{Q|646169}} in {{Q|6714}}<br />
* {{Q|570518}} in {{Q|52069}}<br />
* {{Q|538624}} in {{Q|84030}}<br />
* {{Q|646173}} in {{Q|390314}}<br />
* {{Q|646161}} in {{Q|502754}}<br />
* {{Q|570510}} in {{Q|489393}}<br />
<br />
I detected them with this SPARQL query: <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql"><br />
SELECT ?idWD (COUNT(?item) AS ?compte) (GROUP_CONCAT(?item) AS ?items) WHERE {<br />
?item prop:P2 entity:Q4 ; prop:P12 ?idWD .<br />
}<br />
GROUP BY ?idWD<br />
HAVING ( ?compte > 1 )<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
Ping {{ping|WikiLucas00}} it seems you are responsible for some of them...<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks VIGNERON for finding them and cleaning it. Now what to do with recording items that use the doublon language item (for example with [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q52071|Duala]]). I think we must modify {{P|4}} for all recording items so that languages are not counted twice and also to clean up the database (there are also transcription problems for items listed in the Duala example). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you {{ping|VIGNERON}} for pointing these out. As you can see, most of them were not created manually but using the tool (the pages wheighted circa 4kB, with labels in many languages). It seems that the Lingua Importer tool has (or had?) a problem, but I could not reproduce it (trying to import languages that are already in LL wikibase).<br/> During last summer's hackathon we talked a bit about languages in our wikibase, but I can't remember why we need to have language elements in our Wikibase, and not just use the existing base of WikiData 🤔 — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MediaWiki customizations of LinguaLibre ==<br />
<br />
Love the MediaWiki skin of LinguaLibre and I am curious of skin and customizations made. Who are the authors? (can not see credits) --[[User:Zblace|Zblace]] ([[User talk:Zblace|talk]]) 10:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The skin is known as BlueLL. The source code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL github]. It has been developed by Wikimedia France in 2020. That's said, it is true there is no licence and credits on Github. I will ask to {{u|Adélaïde Calais WMFr}} if she remember anything so that I can the missing informations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New property: translation ==<br />
Hello, I've created {{P|38}} to be used in case there is no writing in the recording language but instead a translation in the vehicular language. See for example what I did [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q212431&type=revision&diff=743039&oldid=191330 here] and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q58994&type=revision&diff=743044&oldid=580313 there]. Do you agree with that? Any comment? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:It's a good idea! Many users tend to add a translation as they find it important for other people to have. It will also be handy for cases like your second example, where we only have the translation but not the transcription of the source language: we will be able to query the base to see all audios of a language that have a translation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::I am thinking about a way to populate automatically this property via the Record Wizard. Currently, it seems that the Record Wizard populates {{P|18}} when something is written between brackets (see {{Q|1685}} for example but I have not checked recently). So, if we modify the Record Wizard code, it is possible to recognize this is a translation in another language and so to populate {{P|38}}. But I would like to be sure to propose the best way to do it before asking for such development. The idea is to be managed automatically (or at least not completely manually). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 00:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone ! <br />
<br/>This week, Wikimedia France is preparing its budget for the fiscal year to come : July 2022 to June 2023. If there are things you would like to see done or to do with our help on Lingua Libre, please share it on this page : https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection <br />
<br/>Have a great week-end ! --[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 17:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to get the city country lablel in sparql (Python) ==<br />
<br />
I'm working on an Anki extension for LL, but I'm having a little trouble writing the sparql query. In short, I want to be able to get the city and country for a recording in LL. However, when I query P14, I get the link to the item instead of 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'} or 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'}. Instead I hope to get city:"" and country "France" for the first query city:"Paris" and country:"France" for the second one. Any ideas? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Languageseeker}} thanks for your work on a Anki extension. Could you post here the query you have now? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{u|Pamputt}} . The query that I'm using is a very lightly modified version of the bot query. <br />
<br />
<nowiki>ENDPOINT = "https://lingualibre.org/bigdata/namespace/wdq/sparql"<br />
API = "https://lingualibre.org/api.php"<br />
BASEQUERY = """<br />
SELECT DISTINCT<br />
?record ?file ?transcription ?recorded<br />
?languageIso ?languageQid ?languageWMCode<br />
?residence ?learningPlace ?languageLevel<br />
?speaker ?linkeduser<br />
WHERE {<br />
?record prop:P2 entity:Q2 .<br />
?record prop:P3 ?file .<br />
?record prop:P4 ?language .<br />
?record prop:P5 ?speaker .<br />
?record prop:P6 ?recorded .<br />
?record prop:P7 ?transcription .<br />
?language prop:P13 ?languageIso.<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel .<br />
?speaker prop:P11 ?linkeduser .<br />
?speaker prop:P14 ?residence .<br />
?speaker llp:P4 ?speakerLanguagesStatement .<br />
?speakerLanguagesStatement llv:P4 ?speakerLanguages .<br />
OPTIONAL { ?speakerLanguagesStatement llq:P16 ?languageLevel . }<br />
FILTER( ?speakerLanguages = ?language) .<br />
SERVICE wikibase:label {<br />
bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" .<br />
}<br />
#filters<br />
}"""</nowiki><br />
<br />
:: Currently, I'm running it with filters = "" because it seems that a query for a single term takes around 70s, while fetching a single transcription takes about 145 seconds. My plan is to group the results by transcription and then write that into a json file to avoid the costly query. Basically, I need the speaker name, the term, their country, their city, the ISO code of the language, date created, and the filename, languageLevel. <br />
<br />
For example, for the term un chien, the json would look like:<br />
{ "term": {"un chien": {"speaker": "Julien Baley", "language": "fra", "city": "", "country": "France", "recorded": "2020-11-27", "filename": "LL-Q150_(fra)-Julien_Baley-un_chien.wav", "languageLevel": "Q15"}}} [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user ==<br />
<br />
I wrote a [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader python program] that downloads all the files created by one user. For video files, it downloads the full webm. For audio files, the default is to download the wave file. However, for audio files, you can optionally choose either mp3 or ogg files. Currently, the configuration requires a minor modification of lluad.py. If there is strong demand, I will write a command line parser for it. Please report any bugs or errors on the github page. Feature requests are welcome. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=762963LinguaLibre:Chat room2022-05-20T12:44:09Z<p>Languageseeker: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
{{Lang-CR}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
{{LL:Chat room/FAQ}}<br />
__TOC__<br />
<!-- **** DO NOT EDIT CONTENT ABOVE **** --><br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publish on Wikimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just tested, but my records are not published on Commons. My tests: on Firefox, then on Chrome, with 50, then with 1 expression (s), with license CC3.0-BY-SA and CC1.0. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 06:51, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[[File:LiLi April 2021 - Publish on Wikimedia Commons.png|thumb|Problème de publication sur Wikimedia Commons]]<br />
:[[phab:T281636]] —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 07:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Usually I have the same with the first two recordings in a session. Then I can upload them again at the end. Try again with more recordings, and using "retry filed upload" button. [[User:Poemat|Poemat]] ([[User talk:Poemat|talk]]) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: Yup, I had this bug many times. (I say "had" because I don't remember having encountered it after the fire incident.) Just don't give up and it should be published eventually. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::(As of 3 May 2021 and as I checked, I'm not aware of any code changes ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/commits/master history]) which may have of affected this. Seb35 made some other code change this same day.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
I add a user who has the same problem: {{u|Le Commissaire}}. —[[User:Eihel-LiLi|Eihel-LiLi]] ([[User talk:Eihel-LiLi|talk]]) 15:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Bonjour {{ping|Seb35}}, Faudrait voir avec {{u|Le Commissaire}} si le problème persiste aussi (avant de clore le ticket Phab. Sincères salutations. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 10:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::J’ai mis un message à Le Commissaire sur sa page de discussion.<br />
::::::Le problème que vous avez eu était spécifique à votre compte, c’est peut-être arrivé à d’autres personnes mais ça semble assez rare. Aussi, à partir du moment où un utilisateur a réussi à faire un envoi vers Commons, alors c’est un problème différent du vôtre ([[:phabricator:T275957|celui-ci, qui ressemble mais l’erreur est intermittente]]). Plus globalement, il faudrait que le message d’erreur soit explicite plutôt que d’aller à chercher dans la console du navigateur, je vais ouvrir un ticket Phabricator en ce sens. [[User:Seb35|Seb35]] ([[User talk:Seb35|talk]]) 10:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exclusion lists ==<br />
If anyone uses the regularly updated [[user:Olafbot|Olafbot's]] lists of wanted words ([[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]], etc.), and spotted an item that should be removed without recording, you can use the brand new exclusion lists to remove it. For example on the list [[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]] there was the word "abandonar", which apparently doesn't belong to the contemporary French corpus. Having added it on the exclusion list (here: [[user:Olafbot/exclusion list/Fra]]) the bot knows this item should never appear in French lists it maintains, and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries&diff=619214&oldid=606068 removes it] during the next update. <br />
<br />
Each "Lemmas without audio" list ({{Olafbot-wikt}}) has a corresponding exclusion list ({{Olafbot-exclusion}}). I hope it will help.<br />
<br />
Normally I would add a link to the exclusion list in a description of each lemmas list, but unfortunately, Lingua Libre engine doesn't allow adding any kind of comments or descriptions to lists, so this ad is the only way to spread a word about the new functionality. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}} Thank you so much for this useful new function! Indeed, the Record Wizard does not yet understand comments, categories nor templates on List pages, but this will be considered for future updates. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 18:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ajout d'une nouvelle langue ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour !<br />
<br />
Je souhaite ajouter la langue Q3196953 mais en suivant la [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Help:Add_a_new_language/fr procédure], je ne vois pas LinguaImporter. Quelqu'un peut-il me dire pourquoi?<br />
<br />
Cdt,<br />
BamLifa<br />
: {{ping|BamLifa}} c'est parce que tu n'es pas administrateur. Je viens d'importer le {{Q|646152}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, merci beaucoup pour cette précision. Si cette option n'est réservée qu'aux admins, pourquoi en parler dans la doc sans cette précision ? En plus, vue la multitude des langues que nous avons qui n'existent pas encore chez Lingua libre, ne pensez-vous pas que vous devriez simplifier cette tâche ? J'ai encore une autre langue à ajouter, le Bira (bila). [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 12:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|BamLifa}} c'est indiqué sur cette page (c'est même le titre de la section (Outil pour les administrateurs)). Je ne me rappelle pas pourquoi c'est réservé aux admins mais ça limite au moins les vandales qui voudraient importer des choses qui ne sont pas des langues. Bref, j'ai importé le {{Q|656403}} et le {{Q|656404}}. Si ce ne sont pas les bonnes langues, peux-tu me donner le code ISO 639-3 correspondant (ou au moins l'identifiant Wikidata) ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Merci beaucoup. [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 05:34, 22 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lists still don't work properly ==<br />
<br />
{{Ping|WikiLucas00}} {{Ping|Poslovitch}} It's better than [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Lists_stopped_working|before]], but still, sometimes the Record Wizard hangs when a list is chosen.<br />
Then I have to reload the page, and try again. Usually the second or the third time of trying the same list, it starts to work.<br />
Probably a race condition. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}}It also happens to me sometimes, but I think that it could be related to the button for removing words you already recorded. When you load a list of words you never recorded (typically Olafbot's lists), ticking the button seems to kill the loading. Best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 10:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you. Indeed, with this switch unchecked everything seems to work. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 16:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liste des mots à prononcer ==<br />
<br />
Salut ! Existe-t-il une page où des mots peuvent être ajoutés pour qu'un bon samaritain puisse parler ? [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 11:30, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|Vivaelcelta}}, les listes sont faites pour cela. Vous pouvez [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Create_your_own_lists|créer votre propre liste]] qui pourra ensuite être enregistrée par n'importe qui. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci {{u|Pamputt}}. — [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 22:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Projet Outils pour la patrouille ==<br />
:''See [[LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol assistance tool prototyping project]].''<br />
{{LangSwitch<br />
|fr=Salut,<br />
<br />
cette semaine commence un projet menés par des étudiants des formations IARF-RODECO de l’Université Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier concernant le prototypage d’outils de patrouille. Je suis, assisté par Adélaïde Calais, le superviseur de ce projet. Les étudiants sont en informatique avec une spécialisation en intelligence artificielle. L’idée est de leur faire prototyper (voire développer) des outils pour aider la patrouille de Lingua Libre en détectant automatiquement toutes sortes de problèmes. Nous avons déjà identifier quelques problèmes : clics, grésillements, bruits parasites et mauvaises prononciations (libellés et enregistrements pas raccord).<br />
<br />
Et nous avons besoin de la communauté sur deux points : <br />
# y a-t-il d’autres problèmes auxquels vous pensez ?<br />
# nous avons besoin, pour que les étudiants puissent travailler, d’enregistrements avec défauts. Si vous les avez réenregistrés, c’est pas grave, Commons a un historique. N’hésitez pas à nous communiquer les enregistrements qui ont ou avaient des défauts !<br />
<br />
Enfin, j’ai créé une page de projet accessible [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|ici]] (page traduite).<br />
<br />
(Si certain·es peuvent traduire ce message en anglais, c’est super cool.)<br />
<br />
À+,<br />
|en=Hi,<br />
<br />
This week, a project lead by student of University Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier is starting. It will be about the prototyping of patrolling tools. I supervise this project, assisted by Adélaïde Calais. The students study computer science with a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. The aim is to have them prototyping (or even developing) tools to help Lingua Libre's patrol, by automatically detecting any kind of mistake/error related to the files. We already identified a few types of mistakes: clicks, crackles, pops and labelling issues (wrong label/wrong language).<br />
<br />
We need the community on two points : <br />
# are there other problems you could think of? <br />
# we need some recordings having issues, in order for the students to be able to work. If you already recorded them again, it is not a big deal, Commons has a file history. Don't hesitate to provide us the files that have or had problems.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I created a project page, available [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|here]].<br />
<br />
See you,}}<br />
[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 09:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], Translated page —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 19:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], [[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde]], could you specify the dates for this project ? <br />
::Also, were your point 1 and two answered by the community somewhere ? (If not I could give it a try) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug}} Hi, I updated the project page with the dates. And I didn’t get any answers to my questions. [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 11:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rashidun Caliphate ==<br />
<br />
Hello {{ping|Zinou2go}},<br />
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q13955_(ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة_الراشدة.wav LL-Q13955 (ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة الراشدة.wav] is problematic (currently {{Q|Q204439}} on LiLi): it contains several cuts (clicks). I proposed the file for deletion in Commons. The recordings seem to be working better, could you record Rashidun Caliphate again? I didn't check the other records, but they are likely to have "clicks" as well. Also, can an admin delete this item on LiLi, please? Cordially. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Eihel}} Please do not nominate files for deletion before asking for the speaker to record it again and waiting a while for their answer. Also, these recordings will come useful for the team currently working on the audio issues of Lingua Libre, so we'd better not delete them (I thought you read my messages on Discord about this). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{Ping|WikiLucas00}}, J'ai enlevé la suppression sur Commons. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Code of Conduct ==<br />
Hi everyone, I just noticed again MediaWiki's [[:mw:Code of Conduct]] (2015) and Wikimedia Foundation's [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02). Back in 2015, 0x010C included the first one as a condition to contribute to [https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard RecordWizard's codebase]. As far as I know, Lili.org and its community, so far, [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Code+of+conduct has no Code of Conduct]. We may be ''implicitely'' binded by it or by some Wikimedia France's Code of Conduct, but it would be cleaner to ''explicitly'' adopt one and display it here, in written. We could therefor do the following :<br />
# Short round to confirm with have nothing in place so far.<br />
# Vote for 2 months to adopt the most recent [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02)<br />
# Copy the text into [[LinguaLibre:Universal Code of Conduct]].<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Pre-discussion ===<br />
Do we already have a Code of Conduct binding LinguaLibre ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Vote ===<br />
''Are you for or against adopting the [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021) as a code of conduct for LinguaLibre's community ?''<br><br />
''Possible votes : {{tl|support}} • {{tl|weak support}} • {{tl|weak oppose}} • {{tl|oppose}}''<br />
* {{Support}} (proposer) — better to be explicit, have a framework in place, just to be clear to all on where we stand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre website should be more appealing to Language Learners ==<br />
:''See also [https://forvo.com Forvo.com].''<br />
It would be useful if LinguaLibre follows the example of Forvo to increase the number of language learners interested in the Project.<br />
<br />
Forvo.com has a way of displaying the information that engage users and makes it very easy to find pronunciations. <br />
<br />
For example, if someone wants to learn how to pronounce "Honoré de Balzac" in French, it would be faster to find the audio on Forvo than on LinguaLibre. Also, Forvo displays the data in a way more appealing to language learners:<br />
* https://forvo.com/search/Honoré_de_Balzac/<br />
* https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Honoré+de+Balzac<br />
'''Would it be possible to improve the way that data is displayed on LinguaLibre to make it more appealing to Language Learners ?'''<br />
''In such way, the number of active users recording audios would increase significantly.'' -- [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]]<br />
:Some people previously reported such "issue". There is a [[phab:T252319|ticket]] on Phabricator to keep this in mind. However, the priority is currently given to develop patrol tools for Lingua Libre and we do not expect to see major improvements related to the audio brosing in the coming months (at least if we have no more external developers). I think it is like this because Lingua Libre has been though so that it helps for recording, not for listening; the second is let to the other Wikimedia projects, mainly Wiktionaries et Wikidata. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::YES ! There are oral discussions and proposals in this direction, but LinguaLibre being a volunteers-based team, we are moving slowly. Forvo is a for-profit entity, it locks the copyright and resale of recordings made on its platform to the speaker-creator and to themselves, to then sell those recordings with a profit. They therefor have money and swift decision-making to sustain their UI/UX efforts. We are shorter on those sides. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Sound Library's forking and hacking ===<br />
'''On the [[LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library|Sound Library]] side''', I was able to duplicate/fork it, which allows to start hack its CSS. Copy those codes into your own namespace :<br />
* [[User:Yug/common.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/common.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]] → [[Special:MyPage/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]]<br />
In those codes, you then have to replace all occurrences of "Yug" by your username, and it's should work. You can start hacking toward a more elegant interface. Note: the JS copy is in your *personal* JS and has a "stop" condition so the various JS instances won't fight. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allow recording only in the user's Native Language to avoid passing "mispronunciations" to Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
I started a discussion on the German Wiktionary because some words on LinguaLibre are not available on the DeWikt. The German Community told me that LinguaLibre adds words into Commons, but the Bot only accepts audios from “few” trusted users using a filter. <br />
<br />
The English and German Wiktionaries use a bot called "DerbethBot" to add audios from Commons. However, the English Wiktionary community asked to block Lingua Libre's recordings because there were non-native speakers recording audios and the Bot had no way to differentiate them from Native speakers. After the audios were introduced in the English Wiktionary they had to forbid adding audios from LinguaLibre:<br />
<br />
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2020/July#Labeling_non-native_audio<br />
<br />
I believe that it is necessary to avoid giving “mispronunciations” to Wictionaries. That is similar to vandalism on a Wiktionary if the reader doesn't know that it is hearing a bad pronunciation and believes that it is “native speaker”:<br />
<br />
''Some suggestions:''<br />
1) Would it be possible to name the audios files to specify if the speaker is a native or not? For example, if a French speaker records the word "maison" it could be named '''"maison-fr-native.ogg"''' . If a language learner records the same word : '''"maison-fr-learner.ogg"'''<br />
<br />
2) A radical way to address the issue would be to only allow to record in one's native language. Of course, users could change it, but strong warnings could be added and always remind people to record only their native language. Forvo seems to take this approach.<br />
<br />
It might be valuable for Linguists to have recordings of non-native speakers to study their accent features in an L-2 Language. However, in my humble opinion the pronunciations added to Wiktionary should be only native speakers and bots should have a way to differentiate them.<br />
<br />
Link to the German Wiktionary discussion about LinguaLibre: <br />
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Teestube#:~:text=von%20technischer%20seite%20gibt%20es%20keinem%20problem%2C%20zwei%20bots%20auf%20de.wiktionary%20arbeiten%20zu%20lassen.<br />
:Hi, this depends on the Wikitionary policy, and it could be different from a language to another one. Anyway, it is already possible to select only recordings done by native speaker. To do that, the speaker has to fill the {{P|16}} property ith the value {{Q|15}} (see for example {{Q|466}}). Other values for {{P|16}} are given [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q5|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sursilvan ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
[[Special:Contributions/Franz.Roos.1955|User:Franz.Roos.1955]] made 2 recordings in [[:en:wp:Sursilvan]] : rauna ([[Q689785]]), tschitta ([[Q689786]]). Sursilvan has no iso code. Do we have a procedure for such languages ? (I forgot if the case already shown up). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:There is not issue. It simply uses the Wikidata identifier when there is no ISO code. Se for example {{Q|1186}}. To record in such languages, we have to create an item for this language/dialect on Lingua Libre, and this is already done for {{Q|74905}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Thank Pamputt for the clarification. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[commons:commons:structured data]] ==<br />
<br />
I've been very pleased with LL's tooling, that does so much of the process of uploading to Commons, sensible naming, description-writing, and categorisation for me; however, I have an idea for an additional step LL could automate. This is in Commons' no-longer-so-new structured data section, which manifests (among other ways) as a tab on the file page.<br />
<br />
As an example of what could be automatically added to a file's datastore, there is a property called 'audio transcription' which serves a similar role to Commons' TimedText subtitle functionality (silly example: [[commons:TimedText:051226-kakapo-billbooming.ogg.en.srt]]) but for shorter clips -- in other words, seemingly designed with applications like LinguaLibre in mind.<br />
<br />
Since these are of the so-called 'monolingual text' datatype, the source language can be specified (or where not part of the main set of languages Wikimedia uses, the special code 'mis' is used and 'language of work or name' used as a qualifier) at the same time as the actual text that is being spoken, which LL has access to since the audio file started out as a text prompt!<br />
<br />
What think y'all? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 04:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Arlo Barnes}} there is [[phab:T239272|Phabricator ticket]] about this topic. Currently there are not yet all properties on Wikidata to fit all Lingua Libre properties. For example, I [[d:Wikidata:Property proposal/language level|proposed to create]] a property for the language level of a speaker but it did not get enough support. SO I guess, we should first list all properties we would like to add on SDC. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [Feature Request] Play next sound automatically while checking recordings ==<br />
<br />
After recording sounds it is important to check them to verify their quality. However, it is very tiring to record 380 words and afterwards have to click 380 times on the ''“Next button”'' while checking them.<br />
<br />
'''After recording, would it be possible to add a button to "Play next sound automatically" ?''' [https://i.imgur.com/XwC34pj.png Screenshot Here] [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, it is already [[phab:T218372|tracked on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "How to use Lingua Libre for your language learning" ==<br />
<br />
I recently found a "new" way to benefit from the sounds on Lingua Libre. I would suggest that it could be advertised on the Lingua Libre main website and on the Wikipedia in French/English:<br />
* [[:en:wp:GoldenDict|GoldenDict]] is a FOSS Dictionary application very valuable for language learners. <br />
<br />
A way to benefit from Lingua Libre recordings is to download the datasets, unzip them and "load" the sounds on GoldenDict (as Sound Directories. [https://i.imgur.com/9avJDgS.png Screenshot here]). In such a way, users have easily an offline "Pronunciation Dictionary". It is very easy to do. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/axRHruk.png screenshot] of how it looks to GoldenDict the French word "fuir". Another example [https://i.imgur.com/Rq0nQCt.png here].<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre sounds can be used with GoldenDict OFFLINE. That is a huge advantage in developing countries, where language learners often do not have reliable internet connection.<br />
<br />
''It would be valuable to create a description on the Lingua Libre website about'' '''"How to use Lingua Libre sounds for your language learning"''' .<br />
<br />
There it would be possible to describe how to use the audios offline with GoldenDict, etc. If more methods are developed (Anki add-on), better GUI, Android App, etc. they could be explained there.--[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:1) '''Reuse of datasets :''' Yes ! Dataset download and reuse must be showcasted and strengthened. I think a "Reuses gallery" page could be created, with screenshot and minimal how-to for GoldenDict, Anki and others.<br />
:2) '''Anki:''' You are the 4th or 5th contributor to rise the need for an Anki add-on. We need to do something on this side, yes. It's more than 1~2 days work and too big for a volunteer work, so we need to apply for a grant. I'am looking in and mapping our options at the moment ({{tl|Grants table}}). At one point we have to jump in and design a project, yes.<br />
:3) For '''e-learning app''', a 5k€ project was designed by myself a year ago. The funding by local regional government was declined, but it could easily be refreshed.<br />
:We have to redesign some projects and apply in early 2022. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::The core question is the Human Resources. <br />
::'''*Daily routines*''' keeps WikiLucas, Pamputt, Poslovitch and myself –aka the community-side contributors— busy maintaining the place, welcoming and guiding new users, cleaning pages, etc. We are now quite smooth, successful and stable on this side.<br />
::To '''*push forward*''' on developments, UI, tools, e-learning, communication, grants, we each have one or two side projects in mind, pushing those <u>''slowly''</u>. But as always in FOSS projects the task ahead is much larger and we could achieve much more with more human resources.<br />
::'''Overall''', it's possible we are at a new turning right now. As things are stable, with road maps available, '''we just need 1 to 3 new coordinators and communicants contributors to tip the dynamic into forward-offensive mode''', with communication therefor new arrivals, new speakers, new devs, new coordinators and really push forward with new events/workshop, funds and SMART features. <br />
::@[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]], I'am currently writing down structuring "community how to" to ease new contributor's jumping in (see [[LinguaLibre:Roles]], [[LinguaLibre:Workshops]], {{tl|Grants table}}). You are doing a nice push on communication (It's FOSS) and with your questions you are mapping out Lili's needs. Pamputt and WikiLucas are following our progresses. All this is pretty interesting. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would like to work on the "Public Relations" Department of LinguaLibre! - EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) : '''Any PR campaign would fail miserably if there is no search function.''' I explain the reasons at the end of this section: [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]]<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 23:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Sound good :) Your outreach to YouTubers and popular FOSS blogs is spot on.<br />
::I am back from a wikibreak, I am cleaning up some last pages, then since the maintenance side is stable I would like to focus my energy on projects design –recording rare languages, technology, PR campaign– and associated grant requests to secure funding and the actual realization of those visions. We can collaborate. You lead on the PR : design your campaign. I can review and help it to fit some Grants formats. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I created a new wiki page in the "events" section of a "PR Campaign for 2022". Please visit [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]] and participate in the discussion with new ideas. EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) I will NOT contribute anymore to a PR campaign. the reasons are explained as comment on the relevant section [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 21:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating a LL catgory for a dialect ==<br />
<br />
Would be grateful if someone could tell me if it's possible to create a LL category for a dialect?<br />
<br />
We're working in Konkani, which has its own (but small) Wikipedia at http://gom.wikipedia.org Under Konkani, there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. <br />
<br />
Would like to create a category for Saxtti (the Salcete dialect of Konkani). This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. Also, it would allow the recordings of many others which might have already been done in Konkani as a how.<br />
<br />
Question: How do we create space for the dialects of a language? <br />
<br />
Thanks very much, in advance! --[[User:Fredericknoronha|Fredericknoronha]] ([[User talk:Fredericknoronha|talk]]) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello {{ping|Fredericknoronha}} and welcome to Lingua Libre. I imported {{Q|700683}} (gom) as it was not on Lingua Libre yet. On Lingua Libre, dialects are treated the same way as languages. You can create an element for your dialect on Wikidata (example for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35359 auvergnat dialect]) and tell us once it is ready, so that we can import it on Lingua Libre with an admin tool. You can also directly create an element for your dialect on Lingua Libre, following the steps described at [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Add_a_new_language|Help:Add a new language]] and taking example of {{Q|1186}}. Don't hesitate to ping an admin if you have any questions.<br />
:All the best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::''« there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. […] This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. »''<br />
::If the writing are similar but only the pronunciation differs depending on where the speaker comes from, it looks like different accents.<br />
::Recordings are specific to a word, a language and a speaker. Which means me recording in French the word "bonjour" will be one audio file on Lili. WikiLucas can record in French the same word "bonjour", it will create an other audio file on Lili. My recording(s), since i come from the South West, will carry the southern accent. Recordings by WikiLucas, who lives 700km East of me, will cary the Lyon area accent. Lingualibre will store 2 recordings, one per user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Hello {{u|Fredericknoronha}}, I have imported {{Q|701734}} so that you can now record words in that dialect. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Feedback about Lingua Libre by Professor Carol Genetti, PhD ==<br />
<br />
'''Dear Members of Lingua Libre,<br />
'''<br />
I am pleased to share a message from Professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Genetti Carol Genetti], a linguist and leading expert in endangered languages. Professor Genetti is author of one of the best books in the field of Linguistics called "How Languages Work". Her vast knowledge and experience are extremely valuable and after reviewing Lingua Libre she said:<br />
<br />
''Thank you for contacting me and letting me know about this initiative. It is an interesting idea. I especially like the multilingual menus -- very helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Are you aware of [https://www.endangeredlanguages.com/ this website], hosted by the University of Hawaii (and, I believe, funded by Google). So one thing that occurs to me is the proliferation of such sites. How will people in an endangered-language community find out about their options, and then make an informed choice about which of these online resources will be best over time for their communities? Should such efforts cross-reference each other?''<br />
<br />
''My second thought has to do with longevity. It takes a significant commitment to support a site like this over time. The challenge is having someone who can keep such sites funded, working, organized, relevant, and engaging users over time. How will you make sure that the data will be available in 10, 50, 150 years? Maybe you get that automatically by being associated with Wikipedia. If so, state that. Also, there should be a clear statement of how such data might be used, and by whom, so speakers know that if they record a wordlist, someone might use if for some purpose without their permission (is that right?).<br />
''<br />
''I'm sorry to have to bring a down-to-earth message to the inspiration and passion for endangered languages that has clearly fueled this work, but having seen other initiatives stumble in this way, I wanted to be sure that you are thinking about this. Speakers will be entrusting you with such valuable pieces of their lives and their cultures. How will you safeguard this over time? Let people know.<br />
''<br />
''Those issues aside, here are a couple of other comments:''<br />
<br />
* There should be a statement targeted for speakers of endangered languages - why would they want to do this? What is the value for them and their communities? What will happen to the recordings? etc.''<br />
* Will you provide speakers with suggestions for what vocabulary to record, e.g. greetings, colors, verb forms?''<br />
* It would be helpful if it was clear from the large list of languages which ones have recordings. Maybe put those in a different color font?''<br />
* It would be helpful to include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language. Otherwise, someone's grandkids coming to this in 30 years will not know what the words mean.''<br />
* Do you want to move beyond single words to a piece of connected discourse, such as a short poem or story, a song, or the reading of some common text (such as a sentence from the UN Declaration for Linguistic Rights)?''<br />
* Should there be a means to flag inappropriate content?''<br />
<br />
''I hope that you find this helpful. And I'm so glad you liked my book! It is lovely to hear that people have found it helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Carol Genetti''<br />
''Vice Provost for Graduate and Postdoctoral Programs''<br />
''NYU Abu Dhabi''<br />
''(she/her/hers)''<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, this is some interesting feedback.<br />
:* "What will happen to the recordings?": Our homepage lacks such important information. We should plan a redesign for 2022 (inspired by the homepage of [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/ Common Voice]?) so that we finally have a homepage that properly explains what Lingua Libre is and can do.<br />
:* "Suggestions of things to record?": This already exists. They're called Lists. We have some pending improvements on that matter (easier to find and contribute to, etc.)<br />
:* "Show which languages have recordings": The datasets page could help, but I guess it would be interesting to put that on an easy-to-find page (again, like [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/languages Common Voice's languages page]?)<br />
:* "Include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language": we only support "transcription" for now.<br />
:** How could we even "link" the recordings to translations? (Lexemes? Plain text?)<br />
:** Who would have to do that? (the locutor? a dedicated team of contributors?)<br />
:** Where would it be done? (in the RecordWizard?)<br />
:** -> That's an interesting thing to think about, but might be slightly out of scope right now<br />
:* "Sentences, stories, songs...?": Yes, indeed. The Record Wizard is already able to do that (with some config tweaks that have to be done by the locutor), but it would be great to streamline this further. Dedicated UI, ability to record an audiobook (or Wikipedia, Wikisource, Wikinews article) as a mixture of sentences that can be stored locally before being all merged together into one audio file sent to Commons, ability for multiple contributors to work on the same book/article... That's something we should also discuss with the [https://librivox.org/ Librivox] folks: they use Audacity so far, but they might be interested in a tool that's better suited to their needs.<br />
:* "flag inappropriate content?": My insight is focused on technical stuff. This sounds more like some editorial guidelines that would have to be debated by the community.<br />
:* "'''longevity'''?": Should Lingua Libre vanish tomorrow, the audio recordings are not lost. They're all stored on Wikimedia Commons, and that makes them as "immortal" as files stored on hard disks, SSDs, CDs or magnetic bands and mirrored half a dozen times around the world can be. However, I can't say much about our Wikibase, which, at the current time, '''is the only place where all the recordings and locutor-related metadata is stored'''. That's a serious single point of failure. There are no dumps and therefore no mirrorring. We'll definitely have to discuss it with Wikimedia France and the Tech Team.<br />
:Hopefully my answers are clear and comprehensible. I'm pleased to have received feedback from Pr. Genetti. Now it's our turn to take matters in our hands! --[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to delete lists? ==<br />
:{{Done}} <br />
Hello, recently I completed some lists. Now everything is done and those lists are needless. Is there any possibility to delete lists? Greetings --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} hello, admins can delete those lists. The lists you created are [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?target=Onkel+Tomm&namespace=142&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions here]. Which ones should I delete ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Hello Yug, please delete all 8 lists, because they are all finally finished. Thanks. --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 13:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} We are clean ! thank for asking, it keeps the place clean :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Case study ==<br />
Hello all, I noticed a file upload which gather interesting use cases.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Item || Label || Speaker || Account || Filename || Category<br />
|-<br />
| [[Q709231]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q709231&oldid=689510 arch.]) || "Ingenieur" || [[Q674858]] 'fleur' || User:Beat_Ruest || [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] || [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest]]<br />
|-<br />
| — || Mispelling of "Ingénieur" || – || – || Carries the misspelling || Category page was not created, therefor virtually "lost" to Wikimedia Commons and [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
* Question 1: How do we handle mispelling ? I assume renaming ALL THREE of the [[Q709231]]'s label AND Property:P3 'recording' AND Wikimedia file [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] rename. Is that ok or will it break something ?<br />
* Question 2: Category should be automatically created. How do we go for this ? I assume a request on [[LinguaLibre:Bot]]<br />
* Question 3: What about the category by *speaker/voice* ([[Q709231]] 'fleur'), which curently doesn't exist, and which can have multiple speakers with the same name 'fleur' ?<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Question 1: it is a good start. I guess, we need to fix it both on Lingua Libre and on Wikimedia Commons<br />
: Question 2: you speak about categories on Wikimedia Commons? If so, I guess a bot can do it (Lingua Libre Bot or another one).<br />
: Question 3: actually the speaker is identified as "fleur (Beat Ruest)". Only one locutor of Beat Ruest can use the nickname "fleur".<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Q1, Q2 agree.<br />
::Q3 : {{ping|Pamputt}} check the categories on [[:commons:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} you mean the problem is [[:c:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] is categorized in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest" and not in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by fleur (Beat Ruest)" or similar name? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, we dont have categorization by '''speaker''' "Fleur (Beat Ruest)". Low importance, but could be a feature request. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gestion de doublons ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]'' (new, needs review!)<br />
<br />
Bonsoir !<br />
<br />
Il y a-t-il une gestion de doublons dans LL pour les mots d'une même langue ? [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 13:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]], si un même locuteur enregistre le même mot alors l'enregistrement précédent sera écrasé (un même locuteur ne peut enregistrer qu'une seule fois le même mot). En revanche, rien n'empêche l'enregistrement d'un même mot par plusieurs locuteurs et locutrices différentes, c'est même un des objectifs de Lingua Libre : mettre en lumière la diversité des prononciations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] : Comment sont alors gérés les homographes non homophones ? ^^ [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]] ([[User talk:Totodu74|talk]]) 00:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Bonjour [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], il est possible d'ajouter des indications entre parenthèses (cette information est stockée à l'aide de {{P|18}}). Voir par exemple {{Q|1685}} et {{Q|1686}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
:::@[[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], salut, la question des homographes est en partie résolue dans nos langues africaines qui sont essentiellement des langues à tons. --[[User:Rçag|Rçag]] ([[User talk:Rçag|talk]]) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Rçag, could you explain your solution a bit so we learn from it.<br />
:{{Ping|BamLifa|Rçag|Pamputt|Totodu74}} the page [[Help:Homographs]] is there to gather best practices. It's new, review and edits welcome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Comment changer de pseudonyme ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, sur les projets de Wikimedia, mon pseudonyme est Manjiro91 (et anciennement GamissimoYT), comment change-t-on de pseudonyme ?<br />
[[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|GamissimoYT}}. Lingua Libre utilise le même pseudo que celui qui est en utilisation sur Wikimedia Commons. Donc si vous voulez utiliser le pesudonyme Manjiro91, déconnectez-vous de Lingua Libre, puis de Wikimedia Commons. Ensuite, connectez vous à Commons avec le pseudo Manjiro91 et enfin reconnectez vous à Lingua Libre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
{{Notif|Pamputt}} Mon pseudonyme Wikimedia Commons est Manjiro91 (anciennement GamissimoYT mais le changement de pseudonyme ne s'effectue pas sur LiLi. [[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|GamissimoYT}}, tu as bien fait les connexions/déconnexions dans l'ordre que j'ai indiqué ? Si tu es sûr que tu es connecté avec Manjiro91 sur Wikimedia Commons, alors tu peux essayer de te déconnecter de Lingua Libre et te reconnecter dans la foulée. Essayer de vider le cache du navigateur peut peut-être aidé aussi. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging of items about languages ==<br />
<br />
Hi y'all,<br />
<br />
For the record, I just merge a couple of items about the same language:<br />
* {{Q|52071}} in {{Q|73}}<br />
* {{Q|139228}} in {{Q|183}}<br />
* {{Q|170137}} in {{Q|359}}<br />
* {{Q|683869}} in {{Q|418}}<br />
* {{Q|646169}} in {{Q|6714}}<br />
* {{Q|570518}} in {{Q|52069}}<br />
* {{Q|538624}} in {{Q|84030}}<br />
* {{Q|646173}} in {{Q|390314}}<br />
* {{Q|646161}} in {{Q|502754}}<br />
* {{Q|570510}} in {{Q|489393}}<br />
<br />
I detected them with this SPARQL query: <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql"><br />
SELECT ?idWD (COUNT(?item) AS ?compte) (GROUP_CONCAT(?item) AS ?items) WHERE {<br />
?item prop:P2 entity:Q4 ; prop:P12 ?idWD .<br />
}<br />
GROUP BY ?idWD<br />
HAVING ( ?compte > 1 )<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
Ping {{ping|WikiLucas00}} it seems you are responsible for some of them...<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks VIGNERON for finding them and cleaning it. Now what to do with recording items that use the doublon language item (for example with [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q52071|Duala]]). I think we must modify {{P|4}} for all recording items so that languages are not counted twice and also to clean up the database (there are also transcription problems for items listed in the Duala example). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you {{ping|VIGNERON}} for pointing these out. As you can see, most of them were not created manually but using the tool (the pages wheighted circa 4kB, with labels in many languages). It seems that the Lingua Importer tool has (or had?) a problem, but I could not reproduce it (trying to import languages that are already in LL wikibase).<br/> During last summer's hackathon we talked a bit about languages in our wikibase, but I can't remember why we need to have language elements in our Wikibase, and not just use the existing base of WikiData 🤔 — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MediaWiki customizations of LinguaLibre ==<br />
<br />
Love the MediaWiki skin of LinguaLibre and I am curious of skin and customizations made. Who are the authors? (can not see credits) --[[User:Zblace|Zblace]] ([[User talk:Zblace|talk]]) 10:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The skin is known as BlueLL. The source code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL github]. It has been developed by Wikimedia France in 2020. That's said, it is true there is no licence and credits on Github. I will ask to {{u|Adélaïde Calais WMFr}} if she remember anything so that I can the missing informations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New property: translation ==<br />
Hello, I've created {{P|38}} to be used in case there is no writing in the recording language but instead a translation in the vehicular language. See for example what I did [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q212431&type=revision&diff=743039&oldid=191330 here] and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q58994&type=revision&diff=743044&oldid=580313 there]. Do you agree with that? Any comment? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:It's a good idea! Many users tend to add a translation as they find it important for other people to have. It will also be handy for cases like your second example, where we only have the translation but not the transcription of the source language: we will be able to query the base to see all audios of a language that have a translation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::I am thinking about a way to populate automatically this property via the Record Wizard. Currently, it seems that the Record Wizard populates {{P|18}} when something is written between brackets (see {{Q|1685}} for example but I have not checked recently). So, if we modify the Record Wizard code, it is possible to recognize this is a translation in another language and so to populate {{P|38}}. But I would like to be sure to propose the best way to do it before asking for such development. The idea is to be managed automatically (or at least not completely manually). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 00:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone ! <br />
<br/>This week, Wikimedia France is preparing its budget for the fiscal year to come : July 2022 to June 2023. If there are things you would like to see done or to do with our help on Lingua Libre, please share it on this page : https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection <br />
<br/>Have a great week-end ! --[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 17:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to get the city country lablel in sparql (Python) ==<br />
<br />
I'm working on an Anki extension for LL, but I'm having a little trouble writing the sparql query. In short, I want to be able to get the city and country for a recording in LL. However, when I query P14, I get the link to the item instead of 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'} or 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'}. Instead I hope to get city:"" and country "France" for the first query city:"Paris" and country:"France" for the second one. Any ideas? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user ==<br />
<br />
I wrote a [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader python program] that downloads all the files created by one user. For video files, it downloads the full webm. For audio files, the default is to download the wave file. However, for audio files, you can optionally choose either mp3 or ogg files. Currently, the configuration requires a minor modification of lluad.py. If there is strong demand, I will write a command line parser for it. Please report any bugs or errors on the github page. Feature requests are welcome. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre_talk:Chat_room&diff=762962LinguaLibre talk:Chat room2022-05-20T12:43:47Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user */</p>
<hr />
<div>When selecting a category to do audio for from a language, can we have an option of returning only entries that do not have audio?<br />
<br />
I loved the current version! Truly admire the changes you all have made over time.<br />
I have also done a few recordings in my own language Odia to check for any error. Below are a few:<br />
<br />
# When a word has already been recorded and has been uploaded on Commons, does is not make sense to show it as a flag instead of letting any user to upload it directly?<br />
# Also, different languages have different additional categories which Lingua Libre does not let one to add. For instance, I generally add a user category to know how many audio files I have uploaded. For the files recorded using Lingua Libre, I don't see an option to add that optional category.<br />
# If I am adding a wordlist before recording, is that possible to keep only one word if the same word is used multiple times? This would save some time for the uploader.<br />
# There is a bit of crackling sound that is heard while monitoring the recorded words. Any particular reason?<br />
# Even though I am correctly pronouncing every word, I see a lot of red-labelled words.<br />
# While recording, I cannot check how the recording sounds like. I can only choose to re-record after hearing the recorded sound. Otherwise even having that option is of no use.<br />
<br />
Thank you much again. I would really love to contribute more myself, and involve other community members. --[[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:20, 26 July 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Unable upload pronunciations on Firefox, Chrome and Opera ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I have tried and failed thrice in three different browsers to upload. It shows the upload failed status with further details when I tried to upload the recorded files on Commons (the last step). Also, it keeps saying the connection is not trusted. I disabled that temporarily on the browser but it still does not work. Anything I missed? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:27, 19 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:I have created [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T209883 a Phabricator ticket] to track this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:15, 19 November 2018 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre_talk:Chat_room&diff=762936LinguaLibre talk:Chat room2022-05-20T02:28:25Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>When selecting a category to do audio for from a language, can we have an option of returning only entries that do not have audio?<br />
<br />
I loved the current version! Truly admire the changes you all have made over time.<br />
I have also done a few recordings in my own language Odia to check for any error. Below are a few:<br />
<br />
# When a word has already been recorded and has been uploaded on Commons, does is not make sense to show it as a flag instead of letting any user to upload it directly?<br />
# Also, different languages have different additional categories which Lingua Libre does not let one to add. For instance, I generally add a user category to know how many audio files I have uploaded. For the files recorded using Lingua Libre, I don't see an option to add that optional category.<br />
# If I am adding a wordlist before recording, is that possible to keep only one word if the same word is used multiple times? This would save some time for the uploader.<br />
# There is a bit of crackling sound that is heard while monitoring the recorded words. Any particular reason?<br />
# Even though I am correctly pronouncing every word, I see a lot of red-labelled words.<br />
# While recording, I cannot check how the recording sounds like. I can only choose to re-record after hearing the recorded sound. Otherwise even having that option is of no use.<br />
<br />
Thank you much again. I would really love to contribute more myself, and involve other community members. --[[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:20, 26 July 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Unable upload pronunciations on Firefox, Chrome and Opera ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I have tried and failed thrice in three different browsers to upload. It shows the upload failed status with further details when I tried to upload the recorded files on Commons (the last step). Also, it keeps saying the connection is not trusted. I disabled that temporarily on the browser but it still does not work. Anything I missed? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:27, 19 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:I have created [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T209883 a Phabricator ticket] to track this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:15, 19 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contribution: Python program to download all files created by a specific user ==<br />
<br />
I wrote a [https://github.com/rkosov/Lingua-Libre-User-Audio-Downloader python program] that downloads all the files created by one user. For video files, it downloads the full webm. For audio files, the default is to download the wave file. However, for audio files, you can optionally choose either mp3 or ogg files. Currently, the configuration requires a minor modification of lluad.py. If there is strong demand, I will write a command line parser for it. Please report any bugs or errors on the github page. Feature requests are welcome. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:28, 20 May 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=762925LinguaLibre:Chat room2022-05-19T20:23:56Z<p>Languageseeker: /* How to get the city country lablel in sparql (Python) */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
{{Lang-CR}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
{{LL:Chat room/FAQ}}<br />
__TOC__<br />
<!-- **** DO NOT EDIT CONTENT ABOVE **** --><br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publish on Wikimedia Commons ==<br />
<br />
Hello, I just tested, but my records are not published on Commons. My tests: on Firefox, then on Chrome, with 50, then with 1 expression (s), with license CC3.0-BY-SA and CC1.0. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 06:51, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[[File:LiLi April 2021 - Publish on Wikimedia Commons.png|thumb|Problème de publication sur Wikimedia Commons]]<br />
:[[phab:T281636]] —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 07:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Usually I have the same with the first two recordings in a session. Then I can upload them again at the end. Try again with more recordings, and using "retry filed upload" button. [[User:Poemat|Poemat]] ([[User talk:Poemat|talk]]) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: Yup, I had this bug many times. (I say "had" because I don't remember having encountered it after the fire incident.) Just don't give up and it should be published eventually. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::(As of 3 May 2021 and as I checked, I'm not aware of any code changes ([https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard/commits/master history]) which may have of affected this. Seb35 made some other code change this same day.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
I add a user who has the same problem: {{u|Le Commissaire}}. —[[User:Eihel-LiLi|Eihel-LiLi]] ([[User talk:Eihel-LiLi|talk]]) 15:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::::Bonjour {{ping|Seb35}}, Faudrait voir avec {{u|Le Commissaire}} si le problème persiste aussi (avant de clore le ticket Phab. Sincères salutations. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 10:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::::J’ai mis un message à Le Commissaire sur sa page de discussion.<br />
::::::Le problème que vous avez eu était spécifique à votre compte, c’est peut-être arrivé à d’autres personnes mais ça semble assez rare. Aussi, à partir du moment où un utilisateur a réussi à faire un envoi vers Commons, alors c’est un problème différent du vôtre ([[:phabricator:T275957|celui-ci, qui ressemble mais l’erreur est intermittente]]). Plus globalement, il faudrait que le message d’erreur soit explicite plutôt que d’aller à chercher dans la console du navigateur, je vais ouvrir un ticket Phabricator en ce sens. [[User:Seb35|Seb35]] ([[User talk:Seb35|talk]]) 10:28, 4 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Exclusion lists ==<br />
If anyone uses the regularly updated [[user:Olafbot|Olafbot's]] lists of wanted words ([[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]], etc.), and spotted an item that should be removed without recording, you can use the brand new exclusion lists to remove it. For example on the list [[List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries]] there was the word "abandonar", which apparently doesn't belong to the contemporary French corpus. Having added it on the exclusion list (here: [[user:Olafbot/exclusion list/Fra]]) the bot knows this item should never appear in French lists it maintains, and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=List:Fra/Lemmas-without-audio-sorted-by-number-of-wiktionaries&diff=619214&oldid=606068 removes it] during the next update. <br />
<br />
Each "Lemmas without audio" list ({{Olafbot-wikt}}) has a corresponding exclusion list ({{Olafbot-exclusion}}). I hope it will help.<br />
<br />
Normally I would add a link to the exclusion list in a description of each lemmas list, but unfortunately, Lingua Libre engine doesn't allow adding any kind of comments or descriptions to lists, so this ad is the only way to spread a word about the new functionality. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}} Thank you so much for this useful new function! Indeed, the Record Wizard does not yet understand comments, categories nor templates on List pages, but this will be considered for future updates. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 18:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ajout d'une nouvelle langue ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour !<br />
<br />
Je souhaite ajouter la langue Q3196953 mais en suivant la [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Help:Add_a_new_language/fr procédure], je ne vois pas LinguaImporter. Quelqu'un peut-il me dire pourquoi?<br />
<br />
Cdt,<br />
BamLifa<br />
: {{ping|BamLifa}} c'est parce que tu n'es pas administrateur. Je viens d'importer le {{Q|646152}} [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:16, 13 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}}, merci beaucoup pour cette précision. Si cette option n'est réservée qu'aux admins, pourquoi en parler dans la doc sans cette précision ? En plus, vue la multitude des langues que nous avons qui n'existent pas encore chez Lingua libre, ne pensez-vous pas que vous devriez simplifier cette tâche ? J'ai encore une autre langue à ajouter, le Bira (bila). [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 12:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|BamLifa}} c'est indiqué sur cette page (c'est même le titre de la section (Outil pour les administrateurs)). Je ne me rappelle pas pourquoi c'est réservé aux admins mais ça limite au moins les vandales qui voudraient importer des choses qui ne sont pas des langues. Bref, j'ai importé le {{Q|656403}} et le {{Q|656404}}. Si ce ne sont pas les bonnes langues, peux-tu me donner le code ISO 639-3 correspondant (ou au moins l'identifiant Wikidata) ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Pamputt}}, Merci beaucoup. [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 05:34, 22 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lists still don't work properly ==<br />
<br />
{{Ping|WikiLucas00}} {{Ping|Poslovitch}} It's better than [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Lists_stopped_working|before]], but still, sometimes the Record Wizard hangs when a list is chosen.<br />
Then I have to reload the page, and try again. Usually the second or the third time of trying the same list, it starts to work.<br />
Probably a race condition. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 09:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Olaf}}It also happens to me sometimes, but I think that it could be related to the button for removing words you already recorded. When you load a list of words you never recorded (typically Olafbot's lists), ticking the button seems to kill the loading. Best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 10:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Thank you. Indeed, with this switch unchecked everything seems to work. [[User:Olaf|Olaf]] ([[User talk:Olaf|talk]]) 16:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Liste des mots à prononcer ==<br />
<br />
Salut ! Existe-t-il une page où des mots peuvent être ajoutés pour qu'un bon samaritain puisse parler ? [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 11:30, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|Vivaelcelta}}, les listes sont faites pour cela. Vous pouvez [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Create_your_own_lists|créer votre propre liste]] qui pourra ensuite être enregistrée par n'importe qui. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci {{u|Pamputt}}. — [[User:Vivaelcelta|Vivaelcelta]] ([[User talk:Vivaelcelta|talk]]) 22:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Projet Outils pour la patrouille ==<br />
:''See [[LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol assistance tool prototyping project]].''<br />
{{LangSwitch<br />
|fr=Salut,<br />
<br />
cette semaine commence un projet menés par des étudiants des formations IARF-RODECO de l’Université Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier concernant le prototypage d’outils de patrouille. Je suis, assisté par Adélaïde Calais, le superviseur de ce projet. Les étudiants sont en informatique avec une spécialisation en intelligence artificielle. L’idée est de leur faire prototyper (voire développer) des outils pour aider la patrouille de Lingua Libre en détectant automatiquement toutes sortes de problèmes. Nous avons déjà identifier quelques problèmes : clics, grésillements, bruits parasites et mauvaises prononciations (libellés et enregistrements pas raccord).<br />
<br />
Et nous avons besoin de la communauté sur deux points : <br />
# y a-t-il d’autres problèmes auxquels vous pensez ?<br />
# nous avons besoin, pour que les étudiants puissent travailler, d’enregistrements avec défauts. Si vous les avez réenregistrés, c’est pas grave, Commons a un historique. N’hésitez pas à nous communiquer les enregistrements qui ont ou avaient des défauts !<br />
<br />
Enfin, j’ai créé une page de projet accessible [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|ici]] (page traduite).<br />
<br />
(Si certain·es peuvent traduire ce message en anglais, c’est super cool.)<br />
<br />
À+,<br />
|en=Hi,<br />
<br />
This week, a project lead by student of University Toulouse 3 - Paul Sabatier is starting. It will be about the prototyping of patrolling tools. I supervise this project, assisted by Adélaïde Calais. The students study computer science with a specialization in Artificial Intelligence. The aim is to have them prototyping (or even developing) tools to help Lingua Libre's patrol, by automatically detecting any kind of mistake/error related to the files. We already identified a few types of mistakes: clicks, crackles, pops and labelling issues (wrong label/wrong language).<br />
<br />
We need the community on two points : <br />
# are there other problems you could think of? <br />
# we need some recordings having issues, in order for the students to be able to work. If you already recorded them again, it is not a big deal, Commons has a file history. Don't hesitate to provide us the files that have or had problems.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I created a project page, available [[Special:MyLanguage/LinguaLibre:Events/Patrol_assistance_tool_prototyping_project|here]].<br />
<br />
See you,}}<br />
[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 09:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], Translated page —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 19:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]], [[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde]], could you specify the dates for this project ? <br />
::Also, were your point 1 and two answered by the community somewhere ? (If not I could give it a try) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:19, 15 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug}} Hi, I updated the project page with the dates. And I didn’t get any answers to my questions. [[User:Lepticed7|Lepticed7]] ([[User talk:Lepticed7|talk]]) 11:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rashidun Caliphate ==<br />
<br />
Hello {{ping|Zinou2go}},<br />
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LL-Q13955_(ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة_الراشدة.wav LL-Q13955 (ara)-Zinou2go-الخلافة الراشدة.wav] is problematic (currently {{Q|Q204439}} on LiLi): it contains several cuts (clicks). I proposed the file for deletion in Commons. The recordings seem to be working better, could you record Rashidun Caliphate again? I didn't check the other records, but they are likely to have "clicks" as well. Also, can an admin delete this item on LiLi, please? Cordially. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:31, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Eihel}} Please do not nominate files for deletion before asking for the speaker to record it again and waiting a while for their answer. Also, these recordings will come useful for the team currently working on the audio issues of Lingua Libre, so we'd better not delete them (I thought you read my messages on Discord about this). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::{{Ping|WikiLucas00}}, J'ai enlevé la suppression sur Commons. —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 15:54, 12 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Code of Conduct ==<br />
Hi everyone, I just noticed again MediaWiki's [[:mw:Code of Conduct]] (2015) and Wikimedia Foundation's [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02). Back in 2015, 0x010C included the first one as a condition to contribute to [https://github.com/lingua-libre/RecordWizard RecordWizard's codebase]. As far as I know, Lili.org and its community, so far, [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Code+of+conduct has no Code of Conduct]. We may be ''implicitely'' binded by it or by some Wikimedia France's Code of Conduct, but it would be cleaner to ''explicitly'' adopt one and display it here, in written. We could therefor do the following :<br />
# Short round to confirm with have nothing in place so far.<br />
# Vote for 2 months to adopt the most recent [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021/02)<br />
# Copy the text into [[LinguaLibre:Universal Code of Conduct]].<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Pre-discussion ===<br />
Do we already have a Code of Conduct binding LinguaLibre ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Vote ===<br />
''Are you for or against adopting the [[:foundation:Universal Code of Conduct]] (2021) as a code of conduct for LinguaLibre's community ?''<br><br />
''Possible votes : {{tl|support}} • {{tl|weak support}} • {{tl|weak oppose}} • {{tl|oppose}}''<br />
* {{Support}} (proposer) — better to be explicit, have a framework in place, just to be clear to all on where we stand. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre website should be more appealing to Language Learners ==<br />
:''See also [https://forvo.com Forvo.com].''<br />
It would be useful if LinguaLibre follows the example of Forvo to increase the number of language learners interested in the Project.<br />
<br />
Forvo.com has a way of displaying the information that engage users and makes it very easy to find pronunciations. <br />
<br />
For example, if someone wants to learn how to pronounce "Honoré de Balzac" in French, it would be faster to find the audio on Forvo than on LinguaLibre. Also, Forvo displays the data in a way more appealing to language learners:<br />
* https://forvo.com/search/Honoré_de_Balzac/<br />
* https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=Honoré+de+Balzac<br />
'''Would it be possible to improve the way that data is displayed on LinguaLibre to make it more appealing to Language Learners ?'''<br />
''In such way, the number of active users recording audios would increase significantly.'' -- [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]]<br />
:Some people previously reported such "issue". There is a [[phab:T252319|ticket]] on Phabricator to keep this in mind. However, the priority is currently given to develop patrol tools for Lingua Libre and we do not expect to see major improvements related to the audio brosing in the coming months (at least if we have no more external developers). I think it is like this because Lingua Libre has been though so that it helps for recording, not for listening; the second is let to the other Wikimedia projects, mainly Wiktionaries et Wikidata. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:00, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::YES ! There are oral discussions and proposals in this direction, but LinguaLibre being a volunteers-based team, we are moving slowly. Forvo is a for-profit entity, it locks the copyright and resale of recordings made on its platform to the speaker-creator and to themselves, to then sell those recordings with a profit. They therefor have money and swift decision-making to sustain their UI/UX efforts. We are shorter on those sides. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
=== Sound Library's forking and hacking ===<br />
'''On the [[LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library|Sound Library]] side''', I was able to duplicate/fork it, which allows to start hack its CSS. Copy those codes into your own namespace :<br />
* [[User:Yug/common.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/common.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]] → [[Special:MyPage/MediaWiki:SoundLibrary.js]]<br />
* [[User:Yug/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]] → [[Special:MyPage/LinguaLibre:Explore_the_sound_library]]<br />
In those codes, you then have to replace all occurrences of "Yug" by your username, and it's should work. You can start hacking toward a more elegant interface. Note: the JS copy is in your *personal* JS and has a "stop" condition so the various JS instances won't fight. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allow recording only in the user's Native Language to avoid passing "mispronunciations" to Wiktionary ==<br />
<br />
I started a discussion on the German Wiktionary because some words on LinguaLibre are not available on the DeWikt. The German Community told me that LinguaLibre adds words into Commons, but the Bot only accepts audios from “few” trusted users using a filter. <br />
<br />
The English and German Wiktionaries use a bot called "DerbethBot" to add audios from Commons. However, the English Wiktionary community asked to block Lingua Libre's recordings because there were non-native speakers recording audios and the Bot had no way to differentiate them from Native speakers. After the audios were introduced in the English Wiktionary they had to forbid adding audios from LinguaLibre:<br />
<br />
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2020/July#Labeling_non-native_audio<br />
<br />
I believe that it is necessary to avoid giving “mispronunciations” to Wictionaries. That is similar to vandalism on a Wiktionary if the reader doesn't know that it is hearing a bad pronunciation and believes that it is “native speaker”:<br />
<br />
''Some suggestions:''<br />
1) Would it be possible to name the audios files to specify if the speaker is a native or not? For example, if a French speaker records the word "maison" it could be named '''"maison-fr-native.ogg"''' . If a language learner records the same word : '''"maison-fr-learner.ogg"'''<br />
<br />
2) A radical way to address the issue would be to only allow to record in one's native language. Of course, users could change it, but strong warnings could be added and always remind people to record only their native language. Forvo seems to take this approach.<br />
<br />
It might be valuable for Linguists to have recordings of non-native speakers to study their accent features in an L-2 Language. However, in my humble opinion the pronunciations added to Wiktionary should be only native speakers and bots should have a way to differentiate them.<br />
<br />
Link to the German Wiktionary discussion about LinguaLibre: <br />
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Teestube#:~:text=von%20technischer%20seite%20gibt%20es%20keinem%20problem%2C%20zwei%20bots%20auf%20de.wiktionary%20arbeiten%20zu%20lassen.<br />
:Hi, this depends on the Wikitionary policy, and it could be different from a language to another one. Anyway, it is already possible to select only recordings done by native speaker. To do that, the speaker has to fill the {{P|16}} property ith the value {{Q|15}} (see for example {{Q|466}}). Other values for {{P|16}} are given [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q5|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Sursilvan ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
[[Special:Contributions/Franz.Roos.1955|User:Franz.Roos.1955]] made 2 recordings in [[:en:wp:Sursilvan]] : rauna ([[Q689785]]), tschitta ([[Q689786]]). Sursilvan has no iso code. Do we have a procedure for such languages ? (I forgot if the case already shown up). [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:There is not issue. It simply uses the Wikidata identifier when there is no ISO code. Se for example {{Q|1186}}. To record in such languages, we have to create an item for this language/dialect on Lingua Libre, and this is already done for {{Q|74905}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Thank Pamputt for the clarification. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 23:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[commons:commons:structured data]] ==<br />
<br />
I've been very pleased with LL's tooling, that does so much of the process of uploading to Commons, sensible naming, description-writing, and categorisation for me; however, I have an idea for an additional step LL could automate. This is in Commons' no-longer-so-new structured data section, which manifests (among other ways) as a tab on the file page.<br />
<br />
As an example of what could be automatically added to a file's datastore, there is a property called 'audio transcription' which serves a similar role to Commons' TimedText subtitle functionality (silly example: [[commons:TimedText:051226-kakapo-billbooming.ogg.en.srt]]) but for shorter clips -- in other words, seemingly designed with applications like LinguaLibre in mind.<br />
<br />
Since these are of the so-called 'monolingual text' datatype, the source language can be specified (or where not part of the main set of languages Wikimedia uses, the special code 'mis' is used and 'language of work or name' used as a qualifier) at the same time as the actual text that is being spoken, which LL has access to since the audio file started out as a text prompt!<br />
<br />
What think y'all? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 04:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hi {{u|Arlo Barnes}} there is [[phab:T239272|Phabricator ticket]] about this topic. Currently there are not yet all properties on Wikidata to fit all Lingua Libre properties. For example, I [[d:Wikidata:Property proposal/language level|proposed to create]] a property for the language level of a speaker but it did not get enough support. SO I guess, we should first list all properties we would like to add on SDC. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [Feature Request] Play next sound automatically while checking recordings ==<br />
<br />
After recording sounds it is important to check them to verify their quality. However, it is very tiring to record 380 words and afterwards have to click 380 times on the ''“Next button”'' while checking them.<br />
<br />
'''After recording, would it be possible to add a button to "Play next sound automatically" ?''' [https://i.imgur.com/XwC34pj.png Screenshot Here] [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, it is already [[phab:T218372|tracked on Phabricator]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "How to use Lingua Libre for your language learning" ==<br />
<br />
I recently found a "new" way to benefit from the sounds on Lingua Libre. I would suggest that it could be advertised on the Lingua Libre main website and on the Wikipedia in French/English:<br />
* [[:en:wp:GoldenDict|GoldenDict]] is a FOSS Dictionary application very valuable for language learners. <br />
<br />
A way to benefit from Lingua Libre recordings is to download the datasets, unzip them and "load" the sounds on GoldenDict (as Sound Directories. [https://i.imgur.com/9avJDgS.png Screenshot here]). In such a way, users have easily an offline "Pronunciation Dictionary". It is very easy to do. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/axRHruk.png screenshot] of how it looks to GoldenDict the French word "fuir". Another example [https://i.imgur.com/Rq0nQCt.png here].<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre sounds can be used with GoldenDict OFFLINE. That is a huge advantage in developing countries, where language learners often do not have reliable internet connection.<br />
<br />
''It would be valuable to create a description on the Lingua Libre website about'' '''"How to use Lingua Libre sounds for your language learning"''' .<br />
<br />
There it would be possible to describe how to use the audios offline with GoldenDict, etc. If more methods are developed (Anki add-on), better GUI, Android App, etc. they could be explained there.--[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 04:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:1) '''Reuse of datasets :''' Yes ! Dataset download and reuse must be showcasted and strengthened. I think a "Reuses gallery" page could be created, with screenshot and minimal how-to for GoldenDict, Anki and others.<br />
:2) '''Anki:''' You are the 4th or 5th contributor to rise the need for an Anki add-on. We need to do something on this side, yes. It's more than 1~2 days work and too big for a volunteer work, so we need to apply for a grant. I'am looking in and mapping our options at the moment ({{tl|Grants table}}). At one point we have to jump in and design a project, yes.<br />
:3) For '''e-learning app''', a 5k€ project was designed by myself a year ago. The funding by local regional government was declined, but it could easily be refreshed.<br />
:We have to redesign some projects and apply in early 2022. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::The core question is the Human Resources. <br />
::'''*Daily routines*''' keeps WikiLucas, Pamputt, Poslovitch and myself –aka the community-side contributors— busy maintaining the place, welcoming and guiding new users, cleaning pages, etc. We are now quite smooth, successful and stable on this side.<br />
::To '''*push forward*''' on developments, UI, tools, e-learning, communication, grants, we each have one or two side projects in mind, pushing those <u>''slowly''</u>. But as always in FOSS projects the task ahead is much larger and we could achieve much more with more human resources.<br />
::'''Overall''', it's possible we are at a new turning right now. As things are stable, with road maps available, '''we just need 1 to 3 new coordinators and communicants contributors to tip the dynamic into forward-offensive mode''', with communication therefor new arrivals, new speakers, new devs, new coordinators and really push forward with new events/workshop, funds and SMART features. <br />
::@[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]], I'am currently writing down structuring "community how to" to ease new contributor's jumping in (see [[LinguaLibre:Roles]], [[LinguaLibre:Workshops]], {{tl|Grants table}}). You are doing a nice push on communication (It's FOSS) and with your questions you are mapping out Lili's needs. Pamputt and WikiLucas are following our progresses. All this is pretty interesting. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would like to work on the "Public Relations" Department of LinguaLibre! - EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) : '''Any PR campaign would fail miserably if there is no search function.''' I explain the reasons at the end of this section: [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]]<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 23:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Sound good :) Your outreach to YouTubers and popular FOSS blogs is spot on.<br />
::I am back from a wikibreak, I am cleaning up some last pages, then since the maintenance side is stable I would like to focus my energy on projects design –recording rare languages, technology, PR campaign– and associated grant requests to secure funding and the actual realization of those visions. We can collaborate. You lead on the PR : design your campaign. I can review and help it to fit some Grants formats. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I created a new wiki page in the "events" section of a "PR Campaign for 2022". Please visit [[LinguaLibre:Events/Winter 2021-2022 Public Relations Campaign]] and participate in the discussion with new ideas. EDIT (28th Nov. 2021) I will NOT contribute anymore to a PR campaign. the reasons are explained as comment on the relevant section [[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 21:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating a LL catgory for a dialect ==<br />
<br />
Would be grateful if someone could tell me if it's possible to create a LL category for a dialect?<br />
<br />
We're working in Konkani, which has its own (but small) Wikipedia at http://gom.wikipedia.org Under Konkani, there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. <br />
<br />
Would like to create a category for Saxtti (the Salcete dialect of Konkani). This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. Also, it would allow the recordings of many others which might have already been done in Konkani as a how.<br />
<br />
Question: How do we create space for the dialects of a language? <br />
<br />
Thanks very much, in advance! --[[User:Fredericknoronha|Fredericknoronha]] ([[User talk:Fredericknoronha|talk]]) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hello {{ping|Fredericknoronha}} and welcome to Lingua Libre. I imported {{Q|700683}} (gom) as it was not on Lingua Libre yet. On Lingua Libre, dialects are treated the same way as languages. You can create an element for your dialect on Wikidata (example for [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35359 auvergnat dialect]) and tell us once it is ready, so that we can import it on Lingua Libre with an admin tool. You can also directly create an element for your dialect on Lingua Libre, following the steps described at [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:Add_a_new_language|Help:Add a new language]] and taking example of {{Q|1186}}. Don't hesitate to ping an admin if you have any questions.<br />
:All the best — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 15:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
::''« there are some dialects spoken, the pronunciation of one can be different from the other. […] This will ensure that readings don't get overwritten by other dialects. »''<br />
::If the writing are similar but only the pronunciation differs depending on where the speaker comes from, it looks like different accents.<br />
::Recordings are specific to a word, a language and a speaker. Which means me recording in French the word "bonjour" will be one audio file on Lili. WikiLucas can record in French the same word "bonjour", it will create an other audio file on Lili. My recording(s), since i come from the South West, will carry the southern accent. Recordings by WikiLucas, who lives 700km East of me, will cary the Lyon area accent. Lingualibre will store 2 recordings, one per user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Hello {{u|Fredericknoronha}}, I have imported {{Q|701734}} so that you can now record words in that dialect. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Feedback about Lingua Libre by Professor Carol Genetti, PhD ==<br />
<br />
'''Dear Members of Lingua Libre,<br />
'''<br />
I am pleased to share a message from Professor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Genetti Carol Genetti], a linguist and leading expert in endangered languages. Professor Genetti is author of one of the best books in the field of Linguistics called "How Languages Work". Her vast knowledge and experience are extremely valuable and after reviewing Lingua Libre she said:<br />
<br />
''Thank you for contacting me and letting me know about this initiative. It is an interesting idea. I especially like the multilingual menus -- very helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Are you aware of [https://www.endangeredlanguages.com/ this website], hosted by the University of Hawaii (and, I believe, funded by Google). So one thing that occurs to me is the proliferation of such sites. How will people in an endangered-language community find out about their options, and then make an informed choice about which of these online resources will be best over time for their communities? Should such efforts cross-reference each other?''<br />
<br />
''My second thought has to do with longevity. It takes a significant commitment to support a site like this over time. The challenge is having someone who can keep such sites funded, working, organized, relevant, and engaging users over time. How will you make sure that the data will be available in 10, 50, 150 years? Maybe you get that automatically by being associated with Wikipedia. If so, state that. Also, there should be a clear statement of how such data might be used, and by whom, so speakers know that if they record a wordlist, someone might use if for some purpose without their permission (is that right?).<br />
''<br />
''I'm sorry to have to bring a down-to-earth message to the inspiration and passion for endangered languages that has clearly fueled this work, but having seen other initiatives stumble in this way, I wanted to be sure that you are thinking about this. Speakers will be entrusting you with such valuable pieces of their lives and their cultures. How will you safeguard this over time? Let people know.<br />
''<br />
''Those issues aside, here are a couple of other comments:''<br />
<br />
* There should be a statement targeted for speakers of endangered languages - why would they want to do this? What is the value for them and their communities? What will happen to the recordings? etc.''<br />
* Will you provide speakers with suggestions for what vocabulary to record, e.g. greetings, colors, verb forms?''<br />
* It would be helpful if it was clear from the large list of languages which ones have recordings. Maybe put those in a different color font?''<br />
* It would be helpful to include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language. Otherwise, someone's grandkids coming to this in 30 years will not know what the words mean.''<br />
* Do you want to move beyond single words to a piece of connected discourse, such as a short poem or story, a song, or the reading of some common text (such as a sentence from the UN Declaration for Linguistic Rights)?''<br />
* Should there be a means to flag inappropriate content?''<br />
<br />
''I hope that you find this helpful. And I'm so glad you liked my book! It is lovely to hear that people have found it helpful.''<br />
<br />
''Carol Genetti''<br />
''Vice Provost for Graduate and Postdoctoral Programs''<br />
''NYU Abu Dhabi''<br />
''(she/her/hers)''<br />
<br />
[[User:Marreromarco|Marreromarco]] ([[User talk:Marreromarco|talk]]) 09:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Hey, this is some interesting feedback.<br />
:* "What will happen to the recordings?": Our homepage lacks such important information. We should plan a redesign for 2022 (inspired by the homepage of [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/ Common Voice]?) so that we finally have a homepage that properly explains what Lingua Libre is and can do.<br />
:* "Suggestions of things to record?": This already exists. They're called Lists. We have some pending improvements on that matter (easier to find and contribute to, etc.)<br />
:* "Show which languages have recordings": The datasets page could help, but I guess it would be interesting to put that on an easy-to-find page (again, like [https://commonvoice.mozilla.org/fr/languages Common Voice's languages page]?)<br />
:* "Include translations of the words into one of the world's major languages or the national language": we only support "transcription" for now.<br />
:** How could we even "link" the recordings to translations? (Lexemes? Plain text?)<br />
:** Who would have to do that? (the locutor? a dedicated team of contributors?)<br />
:** Where would it be done? (in the RecordWizard?)<br />
:** -> That's an interesting thing to think about, but might be slightly out of scope right now<br />
:* "Sentences, stories, songs...?": Yes, indeed. The Record Wizard is already able to do that (with some config tweaks that have to be done by the locutor), but it would be great to streamline this further. Dedicated UI, ability to record an audiobook (or Wikipedia, Wikisource, Wikinews article) as a mixture of sentences that can be stored locally before being all merged together into one audio file sent to Commons, ability for multiple contributors to work on the same book/article... That's something we should also discuss with the [https://librivox.org/ Librivox] folks: they use Audacity so far, but they might be interested in a tool that's better suited to their needs.<br />
:* "flag inappropriate content?": My insight is focused on technical stuff. This sounds more like some editorial guidelines that would have to be debated by the community.<br />
:* "'''longevity'''?": Should Lingua Libre vanish tomorrow, the audio recordings are not lost. They're all stored on Wikimedia Commons, and that makes them as "immortal" as files stored on hard disks, SSDs, CDs or magnetic bands and mirrored half a dozen times around the world can be. However, I can't say much about our Wikibase, which, at the current time, '''is the only place where all the recordings and locutor-related metadata is stored'''. That's a serious single point of failure. There are no dumps and therefore no mirrorring. We'll definitely have to discuss it with Wikimedia France and the Tech Team.<br />
:Hopefully my answers are clear and comprehensible. I'm pleased to have received feedback from Pr. Genetti. Now it's our turn to take matters in our hands! --[[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to delete lists? ==<br />
:{{Done}} <br />
Hello, recently I completed some lists. Now everything is done and those lists are needless. Is there any possibility to delete lists? Greetings --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 10:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} hello, admins can delete those lists. The lists you created are [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?target=Onkel+Tomm&namespace=142&tagfilter=&newOnly=1&start=&end=&limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions here]. Which ones should I delete ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Hello Yug, please delete all 8 lists, because they are all finally finished. Thanks. --[[User:Onkel Tomm|Onkel Tomm]] ([[User talk:Onkel Tomm|talk]]) 13:44, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Onkel Tomm}} We are clean ! thank for asking, it keeps the place clean :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Case study ==<br />
Hello all, I noticed a file upload which gather interesting use cases.<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
! Item || Label || Speaker || Account || Filename || Category<br />
|-<br />
| [[Q709231]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q709231&oldid=689510 arch.]) || "Ingenieur" || [[Q674858]] 'fleur' || User:Beat_Ruest || [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] || [[:commons:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest]]<br />
|-<br />
| — || Mispelling of "Ingénieur" || – || – || Carries the misspelling || Category page was not created, therefor virtually "lost" to Wikimedia Commons and [[:commons:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_user]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
* Question 1: How do we handle mispelling ? I assume renaming ALL THREE of the [[Q709231]]'s label AND Property:P3 'recording' AND Wikimedia file [[:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] rename. Is that ok or will it break something ?<br />
* Question 2: Category should be automatically created. How do we go for this ? I assume a request on [[LinguaLibre:Bot]]<br />
* Question 3: What about the category by *speaker/voice* ([[Q709231]] 'fleur'), which curently doesn't exist, and which can have multiple speakers with the same name 'fleur' ?<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Question 1: it is a good start. I guess, we need to fix it both on Lingua Libre and on Wikimedia Commons<br />
: Question 2: you speak about categories on Wikimedia Commons? If so, I guess a bot can do it (Lingua Libre Bot or another one).<br />
: Question 3: actually the speaker is identified as "fleur (Beat Ruest)". Only one locutor of Beat Ruest can use the nickname "fleur".<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::Q1, Q2 agree.<br />
::Q3 : {{ping|Pamputt}} check the categories on [[:commons:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} you mean the problem is [[:c:File:LL-Q150_(fra)-fleur_(Beat_Ruest)-Ingenieur.wav]] is categorized in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Beat Ruest" and not in "Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by fleur (Beat Ruest)" or similar name? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, we dont have categorization by '''speaker''' "Fleur (Beat Ruest)". Low importance, but could be a feature request. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gestion de doublons ==<br />
:''See also [[Help:Homographs]]'' (new, needs review!)<br />
<br />
Bonsoir !<br />
<br />
Il y a-t-il une gestion de doublons dans LL pour les mots d'une même langue ? [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]] ([[User talk:BamLifa|talk]]) 13:45, 18 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour [[User:BamLifa|BamLifa]], si un même locuteur enregistre le même mot alors l'enregistrement précédent sera écrasé (un même locuteur ne peut enregistrer qu'une seule fois le même mot). En revanche, rien n'empêche l'enregistrement d'un même mot par plusieurs locuteurs et locutrices différentes, c'est même un des objectifs de Lingua Libre : mettre en lumière la diversité des prononciations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
::@[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] : Comment sont alors gérés les homographes non homophones ? ^^ [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]] ([[User talk:Totodu74|talk]]) 00:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Bonjour [[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], il est possible d'ajouter des indications entre parenthèses (cette information est stockée à l'aide de {{P|18}}). Voir par exemple {{Q|1685}} et {{Q|1686}}. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:55, 5 January 2022 (UTC)<br><br />
<br />
:::@[[User:Totodu74|Totodu74]], salut, la question des homographes est en partie résolue dans nos langues africaines qui sont essentiellement des langues à tons. --[[User:Rçag|Rçag]] ([[User talk:Rçag|talk]]) 11:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Rçag, could you explain your solution a bit so we learn from it.<br />
:{{Ping|BamLifa|Rçag|Pamputt|Totodu74}} the page [[Help:Homographs]] is there to gather best practices. It's new, review and edits welcome. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Comment changer de pseudonyme ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, sur les projets de Wikimedia, mon pseudonyme est Manjiro91 (et anciennement GamissimoYT), comment change-t-on de pseudonyme ?<br />
[[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 17:13, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour {{u|GamissimoYT}}. Lingua Libre utilise le même pseudo que celui qui est en utilisation sur Wikimedia Commons. Donc si vous voulez utiliser le pesudonyme Manjiro91, déconnectez-vous de Lingua Libre, puis de Wikimedia Commons. Ensuite, connectez vous à Commons avec le pseudo Manjiro91 et enfin reconnectez vous à Lingua Libre. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
{{Notif|Pamputt}} Mon pseudonyme Wikimedia Commons est Manjiro91 (anciennement GamissimoYT mais le changement de pseudonyme ne s'effectue pas sur LiLi. [[User:GamissimoYT|GamissimoYT]] ([[User talk:GamissimoYT|talk]]) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|GamissimoYT}}, tu as bien fait les connexions/déconnexions dans l'ordre que j'ai indiqué ? Si tu es sûr que tu es connecté avec Manjiro91 sur Wikimedia Commons, alors tu peux essayer de te déconnecter de Lingua Libre et te reconnecter dans la foulée. Essayer de vider le cache du navigateur peut peut-être aidé aussi. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merging of items about languages ==<br />
<br />
Hi y'all,<br />
<br />
For the record, I just merge a couple of items about the same language:<br />
* {{Q|52071}} in {{Q|73}}<br />
* {{Q|139228}} in {{Q|183}}<br />
* {{Q|170137}} in {{Q|359}}<br />
* {{Q|683869}} in {{Q|418}}<br />
* {{Q|646169}} in {{Q|6714}}<br />
* {{Q|570518}} in {{Q|52069}}<br />
* {{Q|538624}} in {{Q|84030}}<br />
* {{Q|646173}} in {{Q|390314}}<br />
* {{Q|646161}} in {{Q|502754}}<br />
* {{Q|570510}} in {{Q|489393}}<br />
<br />
I detected them with this SPARQL query: <br />
<br />
<syntaxhighlight lang="sparql"><br />
SELECT ?idWD (COUNT(?item) AS ?compte) (GROUP_CONCAT(?item) AS ?items) WHERE {<br />
?item prop:P2 entity:Q4 ; prop:P12 ?idWD .<br />
}<br />
GROUP BY ?idWD<br />
HAVING ( ?compte > 1 )<br />
</syntaxhighlight><br />
<br />
Ping {{ping|WikiLucas00}} it seems you are responsible for some of them...<br />
<br />
Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks VIGNERON for finding them and cleaning it. Now what to do with recording items that use the doublon language item (for example with [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Q52071|Duala]]). I think we must modify {{P|4}} for all recording items so that languages are not counted twice and also to clean up the database (there are also transcription problems for items listed in the Duala example). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you {{ping|VIGNERON}} for pointing these out. As you can see, most of them were not created manually but using the tool (the pages wheighted circa 4kB, with labels in many languages). It seems that the Lingua Importer tool has (or had?) a problem, but I could not reproduce it (trying to import languages that are already in LL wikibase).<br/> During last summer's hackathon we talked a bit about languages in our wikibase, but I can't remember why we need to have language elements in our Wikibase, and not just use the existing base of WikiData 🤔 — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== MediaWiki customizations of LinguaLibre ==<br />
<br />
Love the MediaWiki skin of LinguaLibre and I am curious of skin and customizations made. Who are the authors? (can not see credits) --[[User:Zblace|Zblace]] ([[User talk:Zblace|talk]]) 10:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:The skin is known as BlueLL. The source code is available on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL github]. It has been developed by Wikimedia France in 2020. That's said, it is true there is no licence and credits on Github. I will ask to {{u|Adélaïde Calais WMFr}} if she remember anything so that I can the missing informations. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New property: translation ==<br />
Hello, I've created {{P|38}} to be used in case there is no writing in the recording language but instead a translation in the vehicular language. See for example what I did [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q212431&type=revision&diff=743039&oldid=191330 here] and [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q58994&type=revision&diff=743044&oldid=580313 there]. Do you agree with that? Any comment? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
:It's a good idea! Many users tend to add a translation as they find it important for other people to have. It will also be handy for cases like your second example, where we only have the translation but not the transcription of the source language: we will be able to query the base to see all audios of a language that have a translation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
::I am thinking about a way to populate automatically this property via the Record Wizard. Currently, it seems that the Record Wizard populates {{P|18}} when something is written between brackets (see {{Q|1685}} for example but I have not checked recently). So, if we modify the Record Wizard code, it is possible to recognize this is a translation in another language and so to populate {{P|38}}. But I would like to be sure to propose the best way to do it before asking for such development. The idea is to be managed automatically (or at least not completely manually). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 00:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Wishlist for 2022-2023 ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone ! <br />
<br/>This week, Wikimedia France is preparing its budget for the fiscal year to come : July 2022 to June 2023. If there are things you would like to see done or to do with our help on Lingua Libre, please share it on this page : https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:2022-2023_projection <br />
<br/>Have a great week-end ! --[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 17:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How to get the city country lablel in sparql (Python) ==<br />
<br />
I'm working on an Anki extension for LL, but I'm having a little trouble writing the sparql query. In short, I want to be able to get the city and country for a recording in LL. However, when I query P14, I get the link to the item instead of 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'} or 'residence': {'type': 'literal', 'value': 'Q142'}. Instead I hope to get city:"" and country "France" for the first query city:"Paris" and country:"France" for the second one. Any ideas? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:23, 19 May 2022 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=348326LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-26T00:42:40Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Proposed Community Standards */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Edit: {{ping|Rugops}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. I'd love your feedback on it. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:01, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}} see [[User:Titodutta#কোয়েরি]]'s wiki query. I think we can use wiktionary, but I'am unclear how. Maybe it's even available in the Wizard as a built-in feature when you chose the list. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe we should consider "Portals" per language.... with the specific tips, recommended list, active/reference users. Seems a good idea (IF someone ready to attack it XD) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:18, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC) Edit: Official lists can also help prevent unnecessary duplication of effort. Look at the entry for "arbre" on French Wiktionary. Do we really need 32 pronunciations of "arbre"? Does it make sense to add 32 different sound files to one wiktionary page? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Note: There are various schools of though here on LinguaLibre :<br />
:::* the '''linguists''', which would be happy to have 200,000 version of "arbre" so one could study the variability. <br />
:::* the '''language teachers/learners/learning apps developpers''', who one one clear and standard speaker for 10~30,000 most frequent words, just once each and with zero hole in the dataset.<br />
:::[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:45, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: I'm not for limiting the maximum number of pronunciations for an item, but I do not want a situation where "arbre" has 200,000 pronunciations and "cigale de mer" has zero. A site supplied list will make it more likely that rarer words will receive at least one pronunciation. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:07, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::+1. Maybe a specific label within the list's pagename. Ex: List:CMN/HSK-0001-to-8868_(RECOMMENDED) ?<br />
:::::This decision could be made within a language community via its Portal. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:11, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::+1. I like the idea of adding labels. I think this should help also avoid any copyright claims. We can add tags such as "HSK 1.1" (HSK Revision 1 Level 1) "HSK 2.1" (HSK Revision 2 Level 1) and "HSK 3.1" (HSK Revision 3 Level 1) for the various iterations of HSK and that way a user can easily tag see all the word pronounced for a given language list. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 00:48, 24 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::The profile contains the location of where you learnt a language. City and country, if I remember well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} Correct, but this does not necessarily translate into accent. We're making an assumption that an accent can be geographically located and that all individuals that inhabit that geographic location will have a particular accent. Also, an accent can span across geographic region as well. What's wrong with adding a third parameter called accent? Is there any reason that you feel that it would be detrimental? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::The filenames are already 3 times too long in my opinion......... <br />
::::::I don't remember clearly. But maybe we then assumed the *speaker* to be the data marking the accent. {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} may remember. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Could we set an advance option in the user profile, where users can decide how they wish the language files to be named based on metadata? That way users can have fine-tune the way they see the files?<br />
:::::::My point is that this is an invalid assumption. People speak with dialects and may have a speech disorder that Lingua Libre should have a metadata tag for. It's easier to add at first, then to have to manually add later. It shouldn't be that hard to implement. Furthermore, it will also make it easier for users to filter pronunciations. Take, for instance, Russian that has three major accents with twenty-four sub-divisions in Russia. Each accents occurs in hundreds of cities and villages. If we don't have dialect metadata, then we need to create a list with all of these geographical locations to group the pronunciations in the same dialect. If we have dialect metadata, then I can just filter by "Central Russian" or "Chukhloma enclave." All we would need to do is add the following three options to person's user page "Dialect" (required); "Dialect Sub-group" (optional); "Speech Disorder" (optional) and then have that propagate automatically to all their pronunciations. To help users and promote standardization, we can make these drop down menus with an option for custom. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 01:12, 24 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::'''Copyrights violations''' are not possible for stand alone lexemes such "狗" (gǒu: dog) from HSK. <br />
::::List are different : lists are specific creation of one's mind so its author can claim copyrights on a given list. <br />
::::Still, the Chinese Ministry of Education which authored the HSK '''''LIST OF SELECTED WORDS''''' and could legally file a copyright complain yet never filed copyrights violations on any for-profit companies to remove their online HSK lists. Then why would the MoE do so for a non-profit ? And if they do, we can simply delete the said list(s).<br />
::::'''Shuffling''' is not enough to claim '''difference and originality''', especially when your page is named "List:cmn/HSK1" ^^<br />
::::To claim originality the minimum would be to substantially edit the list. In order to not loose data, it lead to adding words. The HSK 1 to 6's 8800+ words could indeed be extended to 11000 via a merge with a relevant frequency lists, around this threshold of difference we could start to claim originality. The algo could be ligthly more complex, with ranking... You see the idea. But I thing the fair-use option is more practical and relevant for us (see below).<br />
::::'''Sum up:''' as I shared above, I think we could advise and state that :<br />
::::* Our policy should be based on the law of the land (Europe & France's laws) and current observed online practices.<br />
::::* Our users make fair-use judgement and uploads the lists<br />
::::* Our admins and/or bureaucrats (?) receives the copyrights claims, one of them do a rapid review process on a case by case basis, then remove the list if the complain has merit.<br />
::::This seems a good balance satisfying both relevant laws together with our project's objectives and interests. Can we push this way ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:40, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} This is an awesome idea. I think that it would make a lot of sense to combine a set of frequency lists with official lists, then deduplicate them. This should prevent any copyright claims. We can even think about whether it makes sense to create frequency lists based on data in Project Gutenberg as part of this process. Then, ve should also write a script to automatically add inflections, conjugations, articles, etc. based on wiktionary data. These lists could be the first set of official lists for LL. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::We don't have the human resources to find and merge those list as I wished above. It need knowledge of the target language, of the available resources (only major, official languages such as EN/FR/ES/DE/JA/CN/KO have HSK/JLPT-like lists), and programming skills. Then add free time and willingness. Having them all is very rare. Better to redefine our copyright rule toward more tolerance so we accept any list there is. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:09, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Agreed. I do think that this might take too much time and dev energy for a temporary and potentially problematic taks. I'm against user supplied lists at this stage for the same reason. I don't think that we have the resources to proofread and merge multiple lists. I'd propose focusing on creating an official list from the various languages of Wiktionary because that will have no copyright claims and will, eventually, contain all the words and phrases in a language. If we create a list from that, it will probably contain around 500, 000 to 600, 000 items per language which will be enough for an initial set and then we can open it up to user suggestions afterwards. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 00:39, 24 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} It seems that we need a statement on our expectations for recording quality. In the end, we only need one good pronunciation entry per language + accent. Terrible quality recording help nobody unless they are the only one that we have. It might be worth having a voting system such as on Forvo to help flag good/bad speakers. We can even toy with the idea of a speaker of the week or month to reward those who really help us out. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:+1. We need a quality statement somewhere. It's not perfect but it sets the tone a bit so we may require more quality from contributors. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I decided to create a draft of standard for Libre Lingua in [[phab:T266309|phabricator.]] [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{reply to|Languageseeker}} Not dev related, to move back here. Also we need to check we may have something already in place making most of the job. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:03, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Minimal threshold ? ====<br />
I also recommend to push for sets of more that 1000 words. Basically, in the download page, we should compile list by language by all datasets (one speaker one language) of less than 1000 audios should be ignored. We assume that sets of 1000+ audios are autoconfirmed. While sets of <1000 audios are potential beginners and likely noisy ''play-around'' (as for myself ! My audios are just test and not good !). Ideally we would have a download page such as :<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ Download audios<br />
! Language || All audios || Top 1 speaker || Autoconfirmed speakers (≥1000) || Other speakers (≤999)<br />
|- <br />
| French || 88,934 audios by 34 speakers || 47,076 audios by speaker Tom Smith|| 76,567 audios by 4 speakers || 12,367 audios by 30 speakers<br />
|-<br />
| Gascon || ... || ... || ... || ...<br />
|}<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Disagree, I don't think we should require a minimum number because that would discourage users. This would especially impact language with fewer speaker and can perpetuate oppression. Instead, I think we should not divide audio into datasets by speaker. Moreover, a system to vote on pronunciations and report them can help to flag problems. As a final resort, we can vote on whether or not to batch delete the pronunciation of speakers that are particularly horrible. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker}} datasets are grouped by languages via downloadable zips, then by speakers.<br />
::My proposal is to create variable packagings for one languages : All / Top speaker / Autoconfirmed speakers / Non-autoconfirmed speakers.<br />
::The ranking system / API would be great yes. Right now when I review a list of words I have to copy the filename(-filepath), store it, to then send a message "this audio is to redo". Not right. Maybe a smart template could do as of now. There is also the question of synch between Lili and Commons to keep in mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
:''{{done}} -- feature request on Phabricator. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:05, 23 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
::''{{done}} a proposal have been documented on phabricator. To keep in mind and follow through there. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::It's a decision by Mr. Vion and {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} if i remember well. Maybe worth creating a [[Help:Formats]].<br />
:::Side note: it also seems to be the time to create categories to class our help pages via several dimensions : scripts, lists, guidelines, recording, ... ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:32, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Thanks, good by me. As long as it improves and is in good faith it's a good practice to allow. ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* This is indeed interesting. Spacing and other things need)ed) some attention). Possibly a good idea is to try all codes from [[:en:Help:Cheatsheet]] and see the results. Regards, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 21:23, 25 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Proposed Community Standards == <br />
Based on a conversation with Yug, I've decided to draft a community compact statement that sets out our standards. Any and all feedback welcome.<br />
<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre is dedicated to providing free, high-quality recording of words and phrases in all languages. To achieve this, we ask you to abide by the following community standards<br />
# All people and accents are welcome. However, do not assume an accent that you do not normally use.<br />
# Please, fill out your profile information accurately. This enables the correct usage of your pronunciations.<br />
# Do not upload pronunciations that you did not create or are posted with a restrictive license elsewhere.<br />
# Please, record in a quiet room with no background noise audible when listening with headphones. <br />
# Do not include excessive silence before or after your pronunciations.<br />
# Record your pronunciations in a relaxed, neutral tone. If you wish to pronounce them fast, slow, or emphatically, please tag your pronunciations appropriately.<br />
# Discrimination, cyberbullying, harassment, stalking, or any other form of intimidation on the base of age, accent, class, disability, ethnic identity, gender identity, geographical location, marital status, native language, political beliefs, race, religious identity, religious beliefs, sex, sexual orientation, or any other category will not be tolerated. Any such behavior will result in a permanent ban.<br />
# Lingua Libre reserves the right to delete any pronunciations that do not follow these guidelines.<br />
<br />
*Hello, points are OK, except #8, for various reasons such as a) LL pronunciation are uploaded on Wikimedia Commons and follow Wikimedia Commons guidelines, several of the points mentioned above are not reasons to delete on Wikimedia Commons. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 21:14, 25 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: I appreciate your feedback. I think that we need to review files before adding to the Wikimedia Commons because otherwise we have the potential to flood Commons with recordings of extremely poor quality. I've heard some files with truly horrific sound quality issues on Forvo and have also seen files in which the speaker did not properly read the text. In any language, pronouncing the headwords and all their variants will amount to somewhere between 200,000 to 1,000,000 unique entries. We don't want to that many files that are unusable on Wikimedia. I'm ok with just flagging the files and then deleting them when better quality versions are available. Of course, for rare languages or places of more limited means, we won't delete files just because of sound quality. <br />
: I mainly want to have a deletion policy for users that pronounce word in a stereotypical manner that perpetuates discrimination. For example, the white person speaking "black," a straight person attempting to sound "gay," etc. These should be collective judgement calls by administrations with bans and deletions. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 00:42, 26 October 2020 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347737LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-24T01:12:28Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Accents matter */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Edit: {{ping|Rugops}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. I'd love your feedback on it. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:01, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}} see [[User:Titodutta#কোয়েরি]]'s wiki query. I think we can use wiktionary, but I'am unclear how. Maybe it's even available in the Wizard as a built-in feature when you chose the list. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe we should consider "Portals" per language.... with the specific tips, recommended list, active/reference users. Seems a good idea (IF someone ready to attack it XD) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:18, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC) Edit: Official lists can also help prevent unnecessary duplication of effort. Look at the entry for "arbre" on French Wiktionary. Do we really need 32 pronunciations of "arbre"? Does it make sense to add 32 different sound files to one wiktionary page? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Note: There are various schools of though here on LinguaLibre :<br />
:::* the '''linguists''', which would be happy to have 200,000 version of "arbre" so one could study the variability. <br />
:::* the '''language teachers/learners/learning apps developpers''', who one one clear and standard speaker for 10~30,000 most frequent words, just once each and with zero hole in the dataset.<br />
:::[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:45, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: I'm not for limiting the maximum number of pronunciations for an item, but I do not want a situation where "arbre" has 200,000 pronunciations and "cigale de mer" has zero. A site supplied list will make it more likely that rarer words will receive at least one pronunciation. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:07, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::+1. Maybe a specific label within the list's pagename. Ex: List:CMN/HSK-0001-to-8868_(RECOMMENDED) ?<br />
:::::This decision could be made within a language community via its Portal. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:11, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::+1. I like the idea of adding labels. I think this should help also avoid any copyright claims. We can add tags such as "HSK 1.1" (HSK Revision 1 Level 1) "HSK 2.1" (HSK Revision 2 Level 1) and "HSK 3.1" (HSK Revision 3 Level 1) for the various iterations of HSK and that way a user can easily tag see all the word pronounced for a given language list. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 00:48, 24 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::The profile contains the location of where you learnt a language. City and country, if I remember well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} Correct, but this does not necessarily translate into accent. We're making an assumption that an accent can be geographically located and that all individuals that inhabit that geographic location will have a particular accent. Also, an accent can span across geographic region as well. What's wrong with adding a third parameter called accent? Is there any reason that you feel that it would be detrimental? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::The filenames are already 3 times too long in my opinion......... <br />
::::::I don't remember clearly. But maybe we then assumed the *speaker* to be the data marking the accent. {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} may remember. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Could we set an advance option in the user profile, where users can decide how they wish the language files to be named based on metadata? That way users can have fine-tune the way they see the files?<br />
:::::::My point is that this is an invalid assumption. People speak with dialects and may have a speech disorder that Lingua Libre should have a metadata tag for. It's easier to add at first, then to have to manually add later. It shouldn't be that hard to implement. Furthermore, it will also make it easier for users to filter pronunciations. Take, for instance, Russian that has three major accents with twenty-four sub-divisions in Russia. Each accents occurs in hundreds of cities and villages. If we don't have dialect metadata, then we need to create a list with all of these geographical locations to group the pronunciations in the same dialect. If we have dialect metadata, then I can just filter by "Central Russian" or "Chukhloma enclave." All we would need to do is add the following three options to person's user page "Dialect" (required); "Dialect Sub-group" (optional); "Speech Disorder" (optional) and then have that propagate automatically to all their pronunciations. To help users and promote standardization, we can make these drop down menus with an option for custom. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 01:12, 24 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::'''Copyrights violations''' are not possible for stand alone lexemes such "狗" (gǒu: dog) from HSK. <br />
::::List are different : lists are specific creation of one's mind so its author can claim copyrights on a given list. <br />
::::Still, the Chinese Ministry of Education which authored the HSK '''''LIST OF SELECTED WORDS''''' and could legally file a copyright complain yet never filed copyrights violations on any for-profit companies to remove their online HSK lists. Then why would the MoE do so for a non-profit ? And if they do, we can simply delete the said list(s).<br />
::::'''Shuffling''' is not enough to claim '''difference and originality''', especially when your page is named "List:cmn/HSK1" ^^<br />
::::To claim originality the minimum would be to substantially edit the list. In order to not loose data, it lead to adding words. The HSK 1 to 6's 8800+ words could indeed be extended to 11000 via a merge with a relevant frequency lists, around this threshold of difference we could start to claim originality. The algo could be ligthly more complex, with ranking... You see the idea. But I thing the fair-use option is more practical and relevant for us (see below).<br />
::::'''Sum up:''' as I shared above, I think we could advise and state that :<br />
::::* Our policy should be based on the law of the land (Europe & France's laws) and current observed online practices.<br />
::::* Our users make fair-use judgement and uploads the lists<br />
::::* Our admins and/or bureaucrats (?) receives the copyrights claims, one of them do a rapid review process on a case by case basis, then remove the list if the complain has merit.<br />
::::This seems a good balance satisfying both relevant laws together with our project's objectives and interests. Can we push this way ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:40, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} This is an awesome idea. I think that it would make a lot of sense to combine a set of frequency lists with official lists, then deduplicate them. This should prevent any copyright claims. We can even think about whether it makes sense to create frequency lists based on data in Project Gutenberg as part of this process. Then, ve should also write a script to automatically add inflections, conjugations, articles, etc. based on wiktionary data. These lists could be the first set of official lists for LL. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::We don't have the human resources to find and merge those list as I wished above. It need knowledge of the target language, of the available resources (only major, official languages such as EN/FR/ES/DE/JA/CN/KO have HSK/JLPT-like lists), and programming skills. Then add free time and willingness. Having them all is very rare. Better to redefine our copyright rule toward more tolerance so we accept any list there is. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:09, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Agreed. I do think that this might take too much time and dev energy for a temporary and potentially problematic taks. I'm against user supplied lists at this stage for the same reason. I don't think that we have the resources to proofread and merge multiple lists. I'd propose focusing on creating an official list from the various languages of Wiktionary because that will have no copyright claims and will, eventually, contain all the words and phrases in a language. If we create a list from that, it will probably contain around 500, 000 to 600, 000 items per language which will be enough for an initial set and then we can open it up to user suggestions afterwards. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 00:39, 24 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} It seems that we need a statement on our expectations for recording quality. In the end, we only need one good pronunciation entry per language + accent. Terrible quality recording help nobody unless they are the only one that we have. It might be worth having a voting system such as on Forvo to help flag good/bad speakers. We can even toy with the idea of a speaker of the week or month to reward those who really help us out. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:+1. We need a quality statement somewhere. It's not perfect but it sets the tone a bit so we may require more quality from contributors. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I decided to create a draft of standard for Libre Lingua in [[phab:T266309|phabricator.]] [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{reply to|Languageseeker}} Not dev related, to move back here. Also we need to check we may have something already in place making most of the job. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:03, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Minimal threshold ? ====<br />
I also recommend to push for sets of more that 1000 words. Basically, in the download page, we should compile list by language by all datasets (one speaker one language) of less than 1000 audios should be ignored. We assume that sets of 1000+ audios are autoconfirmed. While sets of <1000 audios are potential beginners and likely noisy ''play-around'' (as for myself ! My audios are just test and not good !). Ideally we would have a download page such as :<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ Download audios<br />
! Language || All audios || Top 1 speaker || Autoconfirmed speakers (≥1000) || Other speakers (≤999)<br />
|- <br />
| French || 88,934 audios by 34 speakers || 47,076 audios by speaker Tom Smith|| 76,567 audios by 4 speakers || 12,367 audios by 30 speakers<br />
|-<br />
| Gascon || ... || ... || ... || ...<br />
|}<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Disagree, I don't think we should require a minimum number because that would discourage users. This would especially impact language with fewer speaker and can perpetuate oppression. Instead, I think we should not divide audio into datasets by speaker. Moreover, a system to vote on pronunciations and report them can help to flag problems. As a final resort, we can vote on whether or not to batch delete the pronunciation of speakers that are particularly horrible. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker}} datasets are grouped by languages via downloadable zips, then by speakers.<br />
::My proposal is to create variable packagings for one languages : All / Top speaker / Autoconfirmed speakers / Non-autoconfirmed speakers.<br />
::The ranking system / API would be great yes. Right now when I review a list of words I have to copy the filename(-filepath), store it, to then send a message "this audio is to redo". Not right. Maybe a smart template could do as of now. There is also the question of synch between Lili and Commons to keep in mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
:''{{done}} -- feature request on Phabricator. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:05, 23 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
::''{{done}} a proposal have been documented on phabricator. To keep in mind and follow through there. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::It's a decision by Mr. Vion and {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} if i remember well. Maybe worth creating a [[Help:Formats]].<br />
:::Side note: it also seems to be the time to create categories to class our help pages via several dimensions : scripts, lists, guidelines, recording, ... ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:32, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Thanks, good by me. As long as it improves and is in good faith it's a good practice to allow. ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Proposed Community Standards == <br />
Based on a conversation with Yug, I've decided to draft a community compact statement that sets out our standards. Any and all feedback welcome.<br />
<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre is dedicated to providing free, high-quality recording of words and phrases in all languages. To achieve this, we ask you to abide by the following community standards<br />
# All people and accents are welcome. However, do not assume an accent that you do not normally use.<br />
# Please, fill out your profile information accurately. This enables the correct usage of your pronunciations.<br />
# Do not upload pronunciations that you did not create or are posted with a restrictive license elsewhere.<br />
# Please, record in a quiet room with no background noise audible when listening with headphones. <br />
# Do not include excessive silence before or after your pronunciations.<br />
# Record your pronunciations in a relaxed, neutral tone. If you wish to pronounce them fast, slow, or emphatically, please tag your pronunciations appropriately.<br />
# Discrimination, cyberbullying, harassment, stalking, or any other form of intimidation on the base of age, accent, class, disability, ethnic identity, gender identity, geographical location, marital status, native language, political beliefs, race, religious identity, religious beliefs, sex, sexual orientation, or any other category will not be tolerated. Any such behavior will result in a permanent ban.<br />
# Lingua Libre reserves the right to delete any pronunciations that do not follow these guidelines.<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347708LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-24T00:48:30Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Site supplied lists */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Edit: {{ping|Rugops}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. I'd love your feedback on it. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:01, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}} see [[User:Titodutta#কোয়েরি]]'s wiki query. I think we can use wiktionary, but I'am unclear how. Maybe it's even available in the Wizard as a built-in feature when you chose the list. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe we should consider "Portals" per language.... with the specific tips, recommended list, active/reference users. Seems a good idea (IF someone ready to attack it XD) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:18, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC) Edit: Official lists can also help prevent unnecessary duplication of effort. Look at the entry for "arbre" on French Wiktionary. Do we really need 32 pronunciations of "arbre"? Does it make sense to add 32 different sound files to one wiktionary page? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Note: There are various schools of though here on LinguaLibre :<br />
:::* the '''linguists''', which would be happy to have 200,000 version of "arbre" so one could study the variability. <br />
:::* the '''language teachers/learners/learning apps developpers''', who one one clear and standard speaker for 10~30,000 most frequent words, just once each and with zero hole in the dataset.<br />
:::[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:45, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: I'm not for limiting the maximum number of pronunciations for an item, but I do not want a situation where "arbre" has 200,000 pronunciations and "cigale de mer" has zero. A site supplied list will make it more likely that rarer words will receive at least one pronunciation. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:07, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::+1. Maybe a specific label within the list's pagename. Ex: List:CMN/HSK-0001-to-8868_(RECOMMENDED) ?<br />
:::::This decision could be made within a language community via its Portal. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:11, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::+1. I like the idea of adding labels. I think this should help also avoid any copyright claims. We can add tags such as "HSK 1.1" (HSK Revision 1 Level 1) "HSK 2.1" (HSK Revision 2 Level 1) and "HSK 3.1" (HSK Revision 3 Level 1) for the various iterations of HSK and that way a user can easily tag see all the word pronounced for a given language list. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 00:48, 24 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::The profile contains the location of where you learnt a language. City and country, if I remember well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} Correct, but this does not necessarily translate into accent. We're making an assumption that an accent can be geographically located and that all individuals that inhabit that geographic location will have a particular accent. Also, an accent can span across geographic region as well. What's wrong with adding a third parameter called accent? Is there any reason that you feel that it would be detrimental? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::The filenames are already 3 times too long in my opinion......... <br />
::::::I don't remember clearly. But maybe we then assumed the *speaker* to be the data marking the accent. {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} may remember. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::'''Copyrights violations''' are not possible for stand alone lexemes such "狗" (gǒu: dog) from HSK. <br />
::::List are different : lists are specific creation of one's mind so its author can claim copyrights on a given list. <br />
::::Still, the Chinese Ministry of Education which authored the HSK '''''LIST OF SELECTED WORDS''''' and could legally file a copyright complain yet never filed copyrights violations on any for-profit companies to remove their online HSK lists. Then why would the MoE do so for a non-profit ? And if they do, we can simply delete the said list(s).<br />
::::'''Shuffling''' is not enough to claim '''difference and originality''', especially when your page is named "List:cmn/HSK1" ^^<br />
::::To claim originality the minimum would be to substantially edit the list. In order to not loose data, it lead to adding words. The HSK 1 to 6's 8800+ words could indeed be extended to 11000 via a merge with a relevant frequency lists, around this threshold of difference we could start to claim originality. The algo could be ligthly more complex, with ranking... You see the idea. But I thing the fair-use option is more practical and relevant for us (see below).<br />
::::'''Sum up:''' as I shared above, I think we could advise and state that :<br />
::::* Our policy should be based on the law of the land (Europe & France's laws) and current observed online practices.<br />
::::* Our users make fair-use judgement and uploads the lists<br />
::::* Our admins and/or bureaucrats (?) receives the copyrights claims, one of them do a rapid review process on a case by case basis, then remove the list if the complain has merit.<br />
::::This seems a good balance satisfying both relevant laws together with our project's objectives and interests. Can we push this way ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:40, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} This is an awesome idea. I think that it would make a lot of sense to combine a set of frequency lists with official lists, then deduplicate them. This should prevent any copyright claims. We can even think about whether it makes sense to create frequency lists based on data in Project Gutenberg as part of this process. Then, ve should also write a script to automatically add inflections, conjugations, articles, etc. based on wiktionary data. These lists could be the first set of official lists for LL. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::We don't have the human resources to find and merge those list as I wished above. It need knowledge of the target language, of the available resources (only major, official languages such as EN/FR/ES/DE/JA/CN/KO have HSK/JLPT-like lists), and programming skills. Then add free time and willingness. Having them all is very rare. Better to redefine our copyright rule toward more tolerance so we accept any list there is. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:09, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Agreed. I do think that this might take too much time and dev energy for a temporary and potentially problematic taks. I'm against user supplied lists at this stage for the same reason. I don't think that we have the resources to proofread and merge multiple lists. I'd propose focusing on creating an official list from the various languages of Wiktionary because that will have no copyright claims and will, eventually, contain all the words and phrases in a language. If we create a list from that, it will probably contain around 500, 000 to 600, 000 items per language which will be enough for an initial set and then we can open it up to user suggestions afterwards. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 00:39, 24 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} It seems that we need a statement on our expectations for recording quality. In the end, we only need one good pronunciation entry per language + accent. Terrible quality recording help nobody unless they are the only one that we have. It might be worth having a voting system such as on Forvo to help flag good/bad speakers. We can even toy with the idea of a speaker of the week or month to reward those who really help us out. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:+1. We need a quality statement somewhere. It's not perfect but it sets the tone a bit so we may require more quality from contributors. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I decided to create a draft of standard for Libre Lingua in [[phab:T266309|phabricator.]] [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{reply to|Languageseeker}} Not dev related, to move back here. Also we need to check we may have something already in place making most of the job. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:03, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Minimal threshold ? ====<br />
I also recommend to push for sets of more that 1000 words. Basically, in the download page, we should compile list by language by all datasets (one speaker one language) of less than 1000 audios should be ignored. We assume that sets of 1000+ audios are autoconfirmed. While sets of <1000 audios are potential beginners and likely noisy ''play-around'' (as for myself ! My audios are just test and not good !). Ideally we would have a download page such as :<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ Download audios<br />
! Language || All audios || Top 1 speaker || Autoconfirmed speakers (≥1000) || Other speakers (≤999)<br />
|- <br />
| French || 88,934 audios by 34 speakers || 47,076 audios by speaker Tom Smith|| 76,567 audios by 4 speakers || 12,367 audios by 30 speakers<br />
|-<br />
| Gascon || ... || ... || ... || ...<br />
|}<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Disagree, I don't think we should require a minimum number because that would discourage users. This would especially impact language with fewer speaker and can perpetuate oppression. Instead, I think we should not divide audio into datasets by speaker. Moreover, a system to vote on pronunciations and report them can help to flag problems. As a final resort, we can vote on whether or not to batch delete the pronunciation of speakers that are particularly horrible. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker}} datasets are grouped by languages via downloadable zips, then by speakers.<br />
::My proposal is to create variable packagings for one languages : All / Top speaker / Autoconfirmed speakers / Non-autoconfirmed speakers.<br />
::The ranking system / API would be great yes. Right now when I review a list of words I have to copy the filename(-filepath), store it, to then send a message "this audio is to redo". Not right. Maybe a smart template could do as of now. There is also the question of synch between Lili and Commons to keep in mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
:''{{done}} -- feature request on Phabricator. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:05, 23 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
::''{{done}} a proposal have been documented on phabricator. To keep in mind and follow through there. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::It's a decision by Mr. Vion and {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} if i remember well. Maybe worth creating a [[Help:Formats]].<br />
:::Side note: it also seems to be the time to create categories to class our help pages via several dimensions : scripts, lists, guidelines, recording, ... ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:32, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Thanks, good by me. As long as it improves and is in good faith it's a good practice to allow. ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Proposed Community Standards == <br />
Based on a conversation with Yug, I've decided to draft a community compact statement that sets out our standards. Any and all feedback welcome.<br />
<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre is dedicated to providing free, high-quality recording of words and phrases in all languages. To achieve this, we ask you to abide by the following community standards<br />
# All people and accents are welcome. However, do not assume an accent that you do not normally use.<br />
# Please, fill out your profile information accurately. This enables the correct usage of your pronunciations.<br />
# Do not upload pronunciations that you did not create or are posted with a restrictive license elsewhere.<br />
# Please, record in a quiet room with no background noise audible when listening with headphones. <br />
# Do not include excessive silence before or after your pronunciations.<br />
# Record your pronunciations in a relaxed, neutral tone. If you wish to pronounce them fast, slow, or emphatically, please tag your pronunciations appropriately.<br />
# Discrimination, cyberbullying, harassment, stalking, or any other form of intimidation on the base of age, accent, class, disability, ethnic identity, gender identity, geographical location, marital status, native language, political beliefs, race, religious identity, religious beliefs, sex, sexual orientation, or any other category will not be tolerated. Any such behavior will result in a permanent ban.<br />
# Lingua Libre reserves the right to delete any pronunciations that do not follow these guidelines.<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347707LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-24T00:39:40Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Authoritative lists (& copyrights) */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Edit: {{ping|Rugops}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. I'd love your feedback on it. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:01, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}} see [[User:Titodutta#কোয়েরি]]'s wiki query. I think we can use wiktionary, but I'am unclear how. Maybe it's even available in the Wizard as a built-in feature when you chose the list. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe we should consider "Portals" per language.... with the specific tips, recommended list, active/reference users. Seems a good idea (IF someone ready to attack it XD) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:18, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC) Edit: Official lists can also help prevent unnecessary duplication of effort. Look at the entry for "arbre" on French Wiktionary. Do we really need 32 pronunciations of "arbre"? Does it make sense to add 32 different sound files to one wiktionary page? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Note: There are various schools of though here on LinguaLibre :<br />
:::* the '''linguists''', which would be happy to have 200,000 version of "arbre" so one could study the variability. <br />
:::* the '''language teachers/learners/learning apps developpers''', who one one clear and standard speaker for 10~30,000 most frequent words, just once each and with zero hole in the dataset.<br />
:::[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:45, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: I'm not for limiting the maximum number of pronunciations for an item, but I do not want a situation where "arbre" has 200,000 pronunciations and "cigale de mer" has zero. A site supplied list will make it more likely that rarer words will receive at least one pronunciation. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:07, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::+1. Maybe a specific label within the list's pagename. Ex: List:CMN/HSK-0001-to-8868_(RECOMMENDED) ?<br />
:::::This decision could be made within a language community via its Portal. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:11, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::The profile contains the location of where you learnt a language. City and country, if I remember well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} Correct, but this does not necessarily translate into accent. We're making an assumption that an accent can be geographically located and that all individuals that inhabit that geographic location will have a particular accent. Also, an accent can span across geographic region as well. What's wrong with adding a third parameter called accent? Is there any reason that you feel that it would be detrimental? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::The filenames are already 3 times too long in my opinion......... <br />
::::::I don't remember clearly. But maybe we then assumed the *speaker* to be the data marking the accent. {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} may remember. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::'''Copyrights violations''' are not possible for stand alone lexemes such "狗" (gǒu: dog) from HSK. <br />
::::List are different : lists are specific creation of one's mind so its author can claim copyrights on a given list. <br />
::::Still, the Chinese Ministry of Education which authored the HSK '''''LIST OF SELECTED WORDS''''' and could legally file a copyright complain yet never filed copyrights violations on any for-profit companies to remove their online HSK lists. Then why would the MoE do so for a non-profit ? And if they do, we can simply delete the said list(s).<br />
::::'''Shuffling''' is not enough to claim '''difference and originality''', especially when your page is named "List:cmn/HSK1" ^^<br />
::::To claim originality the minimum would be to substantially edit the list. In order to not loose data, it lead to adding words. The HSK 1 to 6's 8800+ words could indeed be extended to 11000 via a merge with a relevant frequency lists, around this threshold of difference we could start to claim originality. The algo could be ligthly more complex, with ranking... You see the idea. But I thing the fair-use option is more practical and relevant for us (see below).<br />
::::'''Sum up:''' as I shared above, I think we could advise and state that :<br />
::::* Our policy should be based on the law of the land (Europe & France's laws) and current observed online practices.<br />
::::* Our users make fair-use judgement and uploads the lists<br />
::::* Our admins and/or bureaucrats (?) receives the copyrights claims, one of them do a rapid review process on a case by case basis, then remove the list if the complain has merit.<br />
::::This seems a good balance satisfying both relevant laws together with our project's objectives and interests. Can we push this way ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:40, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} This is an awesome idea. I think that it would make a lot of sense to combine a set of frequency lists with official lists, then deduplicate them. This should prevent any copyright claims. We can even think about whether it makes sense to create frequency lists based on data in Project Gutenberg as part of this process. Then, ve should also write a script to automatically add inflections, conjugations, articles, etc. based on wiktionary data. These lists could be the first set of official lists for LL. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::We don't have the human resources to find and merge those list as I wished above. It need knowledge of the target language, of the available resources (only major, official languages such as EN/FR/ES/DE/JA/CN/KO have HSK/JLPT-like lists), and programming skills. Then add free time and willingness. Having them all is very rare. Better to redefine our copyright rule toward more tolerance so we accept any list there is. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:09, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Agreed. I do think that this might take too much time and dev energy for a temporary and potentially problematic taks. I'm against user supplied lists at this stage for the same reason. I don't think that we have the resources to proofread and merge multiple lists. I'd propose focusing on creating an official list from the various languages of Wiktionary because that will have no copyright claims and will, eventually, contain all the words and phrases in a language. If we create a list from that, it will probably contain around 500, 000 to 600, 000 items per language which will be enough for an initial set and then we can open it up to user suggestions afterwards. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 00:39, 24 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} It seems that we need a statement on our expectations for recording quality. In the end, we only need one good pronunciation entry per language + accent. Terrible quality recording help nobody unless they are the only one that we have. It might be worth having a voting system such as on Forvo to help flag good/bad speakers. We can even toy with the idea of a speaker of the week or month to reward those who really help us out. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:+1. We need a quality statement somewhere. It's not perfect but it sets the tone a bit so we may require more quality from contributors. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I decided to create a draft of standard for Libre Lingua in [[phab:T266309|phabricator.]] [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{reply to|Languageseeker}} Not dev related, to move back here. Also we need to check we may have something already in place making most of the job. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:03, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Minimal threshold ? ====<br />
I also recommend to push for sets of more that 1000 words. Basically, in the download page, we should compile list by language by all datasets (one speaker one language) of less than 1000 audios should be ignored. We assume that sets of 1000+ audios are autoconfirmed. While sets of <1000 audios are potential beginners and likely noisy ''play-around'' (as for myself ! My audios are just test and not good !). Ideally we would have a download page such as :<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ Download audios<br />
! Language || All audios || Top 1 speaker || Autoconfirmed speakers (≥1000) || Other speakers (≤999)<br />
|- <br />
| French || 88,934 audios by 34 speakers || 47,076 audios by speaker Tom Smith|| 76,567 audios by 4 speakers || 12,367 audios by 30 speakers<br />
|-<br />
| Gascon || ... || ... || ... || ...<br />
|}<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Disagree, I don't think we should require a minimum number because that would discourage users. This would especially impact language with fewer speaker and can perpetuate oppression. Instead, I think we should not divide audio into datasets by speaker. Moreover, a system to vote on pronunciations and report them can help to flag problems. As a final resort, we can vote on whether or not to batch delete the pronunciation of speakers that are particularly horrible. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker}} datasets are grouped by languages via downloadable zips, then by speakers.<br />
::My proposal is to create variable packagings for one languages : All / Top speaker / Autoconfirmed speakers / Non-autoconfirmed speakers.<br />
::The ranking system / API would be great yes. Right now when I review a list of words I have to copy the filename(-filepath), store it, to then send a message "this audio is to redo". Not right. Maybe a smart template could do as of now. There is also the question of synch between Lili and Commons to keep in mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
:''{{done}} -- feature request on Phabricator. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:05, 23 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
::''{{done}} a proposal have been documented on phabricator. To keep in mind and follow through there. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::It's a decision by Mr. Vion and {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} if i remember well. Maybe worth creating a [[Help:Formats]].<br />
:::Side note: it also seems to be the time to create categories to class our help pages via several dimensions : scripts, lists, guidelines, recording, ... ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:32, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Thanks, good by me. As long as it improves and is in good faith it's a good practice to allow. ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Proposed Community Standards == <br />
Based on a conversation with Yug, I've decided to draft a community compact statement that sets out our standards. Any and all feedback welcome.<br />
<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre is dedicated to providing free, high-quality recording of words and phrases in all languages. To achieve this, we ask you to abide by the following community standards<br />
# All people and accents are welcome. However, do not assume an accent that you do not normally use.<br />
# Please, fill out your profile information accurately. This enables the correct usage of your pronunciations.<br />
# Do not upload pronunciations that you did not create or are posted with a restrictive license elsewhere.<br />
# Please, record in a quiet room with no background noise audible when listening with headphones. <br />
# Do not include excessive silence before or after your pronunciations.<br />
# Record your pronunciations in a relaxed, neutral tone. If you wish to pronounce them fast, slow, or emphatically, please tag your pronunciations appropriately.<br />
# Discrimination, cyberbullying, harassment, stalking, or any other form of intimidation on the base of age, accent, class, disability, ethnic identity, gender identity, geographical location, marital status, native language, political beliefs, race, religious identity, religious beliefs, sex, sexual orientation, or any other category will not be tolerated. Any such behavior will result in a permanent ban.<br />
# Lingua Libre reserves the right to delete any pronunciations that do not follow these guidelines.<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347706LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-24T00:34:07Z<p>Languageseeker: /* CSS fixes */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Edit: {{ping|Rugops}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. I'd love your feedback on it. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:01, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}} see [[User:Titodutta#কোয়েরি]]'s wiki query. I think we can use wiktionary, but I'am unclear how. Maybe it's even available in the Wizard as a built-in feature when you chose the list. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe we should consider "Portals" per language.... with the specific tips, recommended list, active/reference users. Seems a good idea (IF someone ready to attack it XD) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:18, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC) Edit: Official lists can also help prevent unnecessary duplication of effort. Look at the entry for "arbre" on French Wiktionary. Do we really need 32 pronunciations of "arbre"? Does it make sense to add 32 different sound files to one wiktionary page? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Note: There are various schools of though here on LinguaLibre :<br />
:::* the '''linguists''', which would be happy to have 200,000 version of "arbre" so one could study the variability. <br />
:::* the '''language teachers/learners/learning apps developpers''', who one one clear and standard speaker for 10~30,000 most frequent words, just once each and with zero hole in the dataset.<br />
:::[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:45, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: I'm not for limiting the maximum number of pronunciations for an item, but I do not want a situation where "arbre" has 200,000 pronunciations and "cigale de mer" has zero. A site supplied list will make it more likely that rarer words will receive at least one pronunciation. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:07, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::+1. Maybe a specific label within the list's pagename. Ex: List:CMN/HSK-0001-to-8868_(RECOMMENDED) ?<br />
:::::This decision could be made within a language community via its Portal. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:11, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::The profile contains the location of where you learnt a language. City and country, if I remember well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} Correct, but this does not necessarily translate into accent. We're making an assumption that an accent can be geographically located and that all individuals that inhabit that geographic location will have a particular accent. Also, an accent can span across geographic region as well. What's wrong with adding a third parameter called accent? Is there any reason that you feel that it would be detrimental? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::The filenames are already 3 times too long in my opinion......... <br />
::::::I don't remember clearly. But maybe we then assumed the *speaker* to be the data marking the accent. {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} may remember. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::'''Copyrights violations''' are not possible for stand alone lexemes such "狗" (gǒu: dog) from HSK. <br />
::::List are different : lists are specific creation of one's mind so its author can claim copyrights on a given list. <br />
::::Still, the Chinese Ministry of Education which authored the HSK '''''LIST OF SELECTED WORDS''''' and could legally file a copyright complain yet never filed copyrights violations on any for-profit companies to remove their online HSK lists. Then why would the MoE do so for a non-profit ? And if they do, we can simply delete the said list(s).<br />
::::'''Shuffling''' is not enough to claim '''difference and originality''', especially when your page is named "List:cmn/HSK1" ^^<br />
::::To claim originality the minimum would be to substantially edit the list. In order to not loose data, it lead to adding words. The HSK 1 to 6's 8800+ words could indeed be extended to 11000 via a merge with a relevant frequency lists, around this threshold of difference we could start to claim originality. The algo could be ligthly more complex, with ranking... You see the idea. But I thing the fair-use option is more practical and relevant for us (see below).<br />
::::'''Sum up:''' as I shared above, I think we could advise and state that :<br />
::::* Our policy should be based on the law of the land (Europe & France's laws) and current observed online practices.<br />
::::* Our users make fair-use judgement and uploads the lists<br />
::::* Our admins and/or bureaucrats (?) receives the copyrights claims, one of them do a rapid review process on a case by case basis, then remove the list if the complain has merit.<br />
::::This seems a good balance satisfying both relevant laws together with our project's objectives and interests. Can we push this way ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:40, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} This is an awesome idea. I think that it would make a lot of sense to combine a set of frequency lists with official lists, then deduplicate them. This should prevent any copyright claims. We can even think about whether it makes sense to create frequency lists based on data in Project Gutenberg as part of this process. Then, ve should also write a script to automatically add inflections, conjugations, articles, etc. based on wiktionary data. These lists could be the first set of official lists for LL. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::We don't have the human resources to find and merge those list as I wished above. It need knowledge of the target language, of the available resources (only major, official languages such as EN/FR/ES/DE/JA/CN/KO have HSK/JLPT-like lists), and programming skills. Then add free time and willingness. Having them all is very rare. Better to redefine our copyright rule toward more tolerance so we accept any list there is. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:09, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} It seems that we need a statement on our expectations for recording quality. In the end, we only need one good pronunciation entry per language + accent. Terrible quality recording help nobody unless they are the only one that we have. It might be worth having a voting system such as on Forvo to help flag good/bad speakers. We can even toy with the idea of a speaker of the week or month to reward those who really help us out. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:+1. We need a quality statement somewhere. It's not perfect but it sets the tone a bit so we may require more quality from contributors. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I decided to create a draft of standard for Libre Lingua in [[phab:T266309|phabricator.]] [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{reply to|Languageseeker}} Not dev related, to move back here. Also we need to check we may have something already in place making most of the job. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:03, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Minimal threshold ? ====<br />
I also recommend to push for sets of more that 1000 words. Basically, in the download page, we should compile list by language by all datasets (one speaker one language) of less than 1000 audios should be ignored. We assume that sets of 1000+ audios are autoconfirmed. While sets of <1000 audios are potential beginners and likely noisy ''play-around'' (as for myself ! My audios are just test and not good !). Ideally we would have a download page such as :<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ Download audios<br />
! Language || All audios || Top 1 speaker || Autoconfirmed speakers (≥1000) || Other speakers (≤999)<br />
|- <br />
| French || 88,934 audios by 34 speakers || 47,076 audios by speaker Tom Smith|| 76,567 audios by 4 speakers || 12,367 audios by 30 speakers<br />
|-<br />
| Gascon || ... || ... || ... || ...<br />
|}<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Disagree, I don't think we should require a minimum number because that would discourage users. This would especially impact language with fewer speaker and can perpetuate oppression. Instead, I think we should not divide audio into datasets by speaker. Moreover, a system to vote on pronunciations and report them can help to flag problems. As a final resort, we can vote on whether or not to batch delete the pronunciation of speakers that are particularly horrible. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker}} datasets are grouped by languages via downloadable zips, then by speakers.<br />
::My proposal is to create variable packagings for one languages : All / Top speaker / Autoconfirmed speakers / Non-autoconfirmed speakers.<br />
::The ranking system / API would be great yes. Right now when I review a list of words I have to copy the filename(-filepath), store it, to then send a message "this audio is to redo". Not right. Maybe a smart template could do as of now. There is also the question of synch between Lili and Commons to keep in mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
:''{{done}} -- feature request on Phabricator. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:05, 23 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
::''{{done}} a proposal have been documented on phabricator. To keep in mind and follow through there. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::It's a decision by Mr. Vion and {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} if i remember well. Maybe worth creating a [[Help:Formats]].<br />
:::Side note: it also seems to be the time to create categories to class our help pages via several dimensions : scripts, lists, guidelines, recording, ... ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:32, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Thanks, good by me. As long as it improves and is in good faith it's a good practice to allow. ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Proposed Community Standards == <br />
Based on a conversation with Yug, I've decided to draft a community compact statement that sets out our standards. Any and all feedback welcome.<br />
<br />
<br />
Lingua Libre is dedicated to providing free, high-quality recording of words and phrases in all languages. To achieve this, we ask you to abide by the following community standards<br />
# All people and accents are welcome. However, do not assume an accent that you do not normally use.<br />
# Please, fill out your profile information accurately. This enables the correct usage of your pronunciations.<br />
# Do not upload pronunciations that you did not create or are posted with a restrictive license elsewhere.<br />
# Please, record in a quiet room with no background noise audible when listening with headphones. <br />
# Do not include excessive silence before or after your pronunciations.<br />
# Record your pronunciations in a relaxed, neutral tone. If you wish to pronounce them fast, slow, or emphatically, please tag your pronunciations appropriately.<br />
# Discrimination, cyberbullying, harassment, stalking, or any other form of intimidation on the base of age, accent, class, disability, ethnic identity, gender identity, geographical location, marital status, native language, political beliefs, race, religious identity, religious beliefs, sex, sexual orientation, or any other category will not be tolerated. Any such behavior will result in a permanent ban.<br />
# Lingua Libre reserves the right to delete any pronunciations that do not follow these guidelines.<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347484LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-23T03:36:39Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Edit: {{ping|Rugops}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. I'd love your feedback on it. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:01, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}} see [[User:Titodutta#কোয়েরি]]'s wiki query. I think we can use wiktionary, but I'am unclear how. Maybe it's even available in the Wizard as a built-in feature when you chose the list. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe we should consider "Portals" per language.... with the specific tips, recommended list, active/reference users. Seems a good idea (IF someone ready to attack it XD) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:18, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC) Edit: Official lists can also help prevent unnecessary duplication of effort. Look at the entry for "arbre" on French Wiktionary. Do we really need 32 pronunciations of "arbre"? Does it make sense to add 32 different sound files to one wiktionary page? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Note: There are various schools of though here on LinguaLibre :<br />
:::* the '''linguists''', which would be happy to have 200,000 version of "arbre" so one could study the variability. <br />
:::* the '''language teachers/learners/learning apps developpers''', who one one clear and standard speaker for 10~30,000 most frequent words, just once each and with zero hole in the dataset.<br />
:::[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:45, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: I'm not for limiting the maximum number of pronunciations for an item, but I do not want a situation where "arbre" has 200,000 pronunciations and "cigale de mer" has zero. A site supplied list will make it more likely that rarer words will receive at least one pronunciation. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:07, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::The profile contains the location of where you learnt a language. City and country, if I remember well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} Correct, but this does not necessarily translate into accent. We're making an assumption that an accent can be geographically located and that all individuals that inhabit that geographic location will have a particular accent. Also, an accent can span across geographic region as well. What's wrong with adding a third parameter called accent? Is there any reason that you feel that it would be detrimental? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::The filenames are already 3 times too long in my opinion......... <br />
::::::I don't remember clearly. But maybe we then assumed the *speaker* to be the data marking the accent. {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} may remember. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::'''Copyrights violations''' are not possible for stand alone lexemes such "狗" (gǒu: dog) from HSK. <br />
::::List are different : lists are specific creation of one's mind so its author can claim copyrights on a given list. <br />
::::Still, the Chinese Ministry of Education which authored the HSK '''''LIST OF SELECTED WORDS''''' and could legally file a copyright complain yet never filed copyrights violations on any for-profit companies to remove their online HSK lists. Then why would the MoE do so for a non-profit ? And if they do, we can simply delete the said list(s).<br />
::::'''Shuffling''' is not enough to claim '''difference and originality''', especially when your page is named "List:cmn/HSK1" ^^<br />
::::To claim originality the minimum would be to substantially edit the list. In order to not loose data, it lead to adding words. The HSK 1 to 6's 8800+ words could indeed be extended to 11000 via a merge with a relevant frequency lists, around this threshold of difference we could start to claim originality. The algo could be ligthly more complex, with ranking... You see the idea. But I thing the fair-use option is more practical and relevant for us (see below).<br />
::::'''Sum up:''' as I shared above, I think we could advise and state that :<br />
::::* Our policy should be based on the law of the land (Europe & France's laws) and current observed online practices.<br />
::::* Our users make fair-use judgement and uploads the lists<br />
::::* Our admins and/or bureaucrats (?) receives the copyrights claims, one of them do a rapid review process on a case by case basis, then remove the list if the complain has merit.<br />
::::This seems a good balance satisfying both relevant laws together with our project's objectives and interests. Can we push this way ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:40, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} This is an awesome idea. I think that it would make a lot of sense to combine a set of frequency lists with official lists, then deduplicate them. This should prevent any copyright claims. We can even think about whether it makes sense to create frequency lists based on data in Project Gutenberg as part of this process. Then, ve should also write a script to automatically add inflections, conjugations, articles, etc. based on wiktionary data. These lists could be the first set of official lists for LL. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} It seems that we need a statement on our expectations for recording quality. In the end, we only need one good pronunciation entry per language + accent. Terrible quality recording help nobody unless they are the only one that we have. It might be worth having a voting system such as on Forvo to help flag good/bad speakers. We can even toy with the idea of a speaker of the week or month to reward those who really help us out. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:+1. We need a quality statement somewhere. It's not perfect but it sets the tone a bit so we may require more quality from contributors. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I decided to create a draft of standard for Libre Lingua in [[phab:T266309|phabricator.]] [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== Minimal threshold ? ====<br />
I also recommend to push for sets of more that 1000 words. Basically, in the download page, we should compile list by language by all datasets (one speaker one language) of less than 1000 audios should be ignored. We assume that sets of 1000+ audios are autoconfirmed. While sets of <1000 audios are potential beginners and likely noisy ''play-around'' (as for myself ! My audios are just test and not good !). Ideally we would have a download page such as :<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ Download audios<br />
! Language || All audios || Top 1 speaker || Autoconfirmed speakers (≥1000) || Other speakers (≤999)<br />
|- <br />
| French || 88,934 audios by 34 speakers || 47,076 audios by speaker Tom Smith|| 76,567 audios by 4 speakers || 12,367 audios by 30 speakers<br />
|-<br />
| Gascon || ... || ... || ... || ...<br />
|}<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Disagree, I don't think we should require a minimum number because that would discourage users. This would especially impact language with fewer speaker and can perpetuate oppression. Instead, I think we should not divide audio into datasets by speaker. Moreover, a system to vote on pronunciations and report them can help to flag problems. As a final resort, we can vote on whether or not to batch delete the pronunciation of speakers that are particularly horrible. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
::''{{done}} a proposal have been documented on phabricator. To keep in mind and follow through there. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::It's a decision by Mr. Vion and {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} if i remember well. Maybe worth creating a [[Help:Formats]].<br />
:::Side note: it also seems to be the time to create categories to class our help pages via several dimensions : scripts, lists, guidelines, recording, ... ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:32, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Thanks, good by me. As long as it improves and is in good faith it's a good practice to allow. ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347483LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-23T02:07:53Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Site supplied lists */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Edit: {{ping|Rugops}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. I'd love your feedback on it. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:01, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}} see [[User:Titodutta#কোয়েরি]]'s wiki query. I think we can use wiktionary, but I'am unclear how. Maybe it's even available in the Wizard as a built-in feature when you chose the list. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe we should consider "Portals" per language.... with the specific tips, recommended list, active/reference users. Seems a good idea (IF someone ready to attack it XD) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:18, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC) Edit: Official lists can also help prevent unnecessary duplication of effort. Look at the entry for "arbre" on French Wiktionary. Do we really need 32 pronunciations of "arbre"? Does it make sense to add 32 different sound files to one wiktionary page? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Note: There are various schools of though here on LinguaLibre :<br />
:::* the '''linguists''', which would be happy to have 200,000 version of "arbre" so one could study the variability. <br />
:::* the '''language teachers/learners/learning apps developpers''', who one one clear and standard speaker for 10~30,000 most frequent words, just once each and with zero hole in the dataset.<br />
:::[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:45, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: I'm not for limiting the maximum number of pronunciations for an item, but I do not want a situation where "arbre" has 200,000 pronunciations and "cigale de mer" has zero. A site supplied list will make it more likely that rarer words will receive at least one pronunciation. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:07, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::The profile contains the location of where you learnt a language. City and country, if I remember well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} Correct, but this does not necessarily translate into accent. We're making an assumption that an accent can be geographically located and that all individuals that inhabit that geographic location will have a particular accent. Also, an accent can span across geographic region as well. What's wrong with adding a third parameter called accent? Is there any reason that you feel that it would be detrimental? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::The filenames are already 3 times too long in my opinion......... <br />
::::::I don't remember clearly. But maybe we then assumed the *speaker* to be the data marking the accent. {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} may remember. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::'''Copyrights violations''' are not possible for stand alone lexemes such "狗" (gǒu: dog) from HSK. <br />
::::List are different : lists are specific creation of one's mind so its author can claim copyrights on a given list. <br />
::::Still, the Chinese Ministry of Education which authored the HSK '''''LIST OF SELECTED WORDS''''' and could legally file a copyright complain yet never filed copyrights violations on any for-profit companies to remove their online HSK lists. Then why would the MoE do so for a non-profit ? And if they do, we can simply delete the said list(s).<br />
::::'''Shuffling''' is not enough to claim '''difference and originality''', especially when your page is named "List:cmn/HSK1" ^^<br />
::::To claim originality the minimum would be to substantially edit the list. In order to not loose data, it lead to adding words. The HSK 1 to 6's 8800+ words could indeed be extended to 11000 via a merge with a relevant frequency lists, around this threshold of difference we could start to claim originality. The algo could be ligthly more complex, with ranking... You see the idea. But I thing the fair-use option is more practical and relevant for us (see below).<br />
::::'''Sum up:''' as I shared above, I think we could advise and state that :<br />
::::* Our policy should be based on the law of the land (Europe & France's laws) and current observed online practices.<br />
::::* Our users make fair-use judgement and uploads the lists<br />
::::* Our admins and/or bureaucrats (?) receives the copyrights claims, one of them do a rapid review process on a case by case basis, then remove the list if the complain has merit.<br />
::::This seems a good balance satisfying both relevant laws together with our project's objectives and interests. Can we push this way ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:40, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} This is an awesome idea. I think that it would make a lot of sense to combine a set of frequency lists with official lists, then deduplicate them. This should prevent any copyright claims. We can even think about whether it makes sense to create frequency lists based on data in Project Gutenberg as part of this process. Then, ve should also write a script to automatically add inflections, conjugations, articles, etc. based on wiktionary data. These lists could be the first set of official lists for LL. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} It seems that we need a statement on our expectations for recording quality. In the end, we only need one good pronunciation entry per language + accent. Terrible quality recording help nobody unless they are the only one that we have. It might be worth having a voting system such as on Forvo to help flag good/bad speakers. We can even toy with the idea of a speaker of the week or month to reward those who really help us out. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:+1. We need a quality statement somewhere. It's not perfect but it sets the tone a bit so we may require more quality from contributors. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== Minimal threshold ? ====<br />
I also recommend to push for sets of more that 1000 words. Basically, in the download page, we should compile list by language by all datasets (one speaker one language) of less than 1000 audios should be ignored. We assume that sets of 1000+ audios are autoconfirmed. While sets of <1000 audios are potential beginners and likely noisy ''play-around'' (as for myself ! My audios are just test and not good !). Ideally we would have a download page such as :<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ Download audios<br />
! Language || All audios || Top 1 speaker || Autoconfirmed speakers (≥1000) || Other speakers (≤999)<br />
|- <br />
| French || 88,934 audios by 34 speakers || 47,076 audios by speaker Tom Smith|| 76,567 audios by 4 speakers || 12,367 audios by 30 speakers<br />
|-<br />
| Gascon || ... || ... || ... || ...<br />
|}<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
::''{{done}} a proposal have been documented on phabricator. To keep in mind and follow through there. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::It's a decision by Mr. Vion and {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} if i remember well. Maybe worth creating a [[Help:Formats]].<br />
:::Side note: it also seems to be the time to create categories to class our help pages via several dimensions : scripts, lists, guidelines, recording, ... ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:32, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Thanks, good by me. As long as it improves and is in good faith it's a good practice to allow. ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347482LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-23T02:01:52Z<p>Languageseeker: /* One word, one language, one page */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Edit: {{ping|Rugops}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. I'd love your feedback on it. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:01, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}} see [[User:Titodutta#কোয়েরি]]'s wiki query. I think we can use wiktionary, but I'am unclear how. Maybe it's even available in the Wizard as a built-in feature when you chose the list. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe we should consider "Portals" per language.... with the specific tips, recommended list, active/reference users. Seems a good idea (IF someone ready to attack it XD) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:18, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC) Edit: Official lists can also help prevent unnecessary duplication of effort. Look at the entry for "arbre" on French Wiktionary. Do we really need 32 pronunciations of "arbre"? Does it make sense to add 32 different sound files to one wiktionary page? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Note: There are various schools of though here on LinguaLibre :<br />
:::* the '''linguists''', which would be happy to have 200,000 version of "arbre" so one could study the variability. <br />
:::* the '''language teachers/learners/learning apps developpers''', who one one clear and standard speaker for 10~30,000 most frequent words, just once each and with zero hole in the dataset.<br />
:::[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:45, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::The profile contains the location of where you learnt a language. City and country, if I remember well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} Correct, but this does not necessarily translate into accent. We're making an assumption that an accent can be geographically located and that all individuals that inhabit that geographic location will have a particular accent. Also, an accent can span across geographic region as well. What's wrong with adding a third parameter called accent? Is there any reason that you feel that it would be detrimental? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::The filenames are already 3 times too long in my opinion......... <br />
::::::I don't remember clearly. But maybe we then assumed the *speaker* to be the data marking the accent. {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} may remember. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::'''Copyrights violations''' are not possible for stand alone lexemes such "狗" (gǒu: dog) from HSK. <br />
::::List are different : lists are specific creation of one's mind so its author can claim copyrights on a given list. <br />
::::Still, the Chinese Ministry of Education which authored the HSK '''''LIST OF SELECTED WORDS''''' and could legally file a copyright complain yet never filed copyrights violations on any for-profit companies to remove their online HSK lists. Then why would the MoE do so for a non-profit ? And if they do, we can simply delete the said list(s).<br />
::::'''Shuffling''' is not enough to claim '''difference and originality''', especially when your page is named "List:cmn/HSK1" ^^<br />
::::To claim originality the minimum would be to substantially edit the list. In order to not loose data, it lead to adding words. The HSK 1 to 6's 8800+ words could indeed be extended to 11000 via a merge with a relevant frequency lists, around this threshold of difference we could start to claim originality. The algo could be ligthly more complex, with ranking... You see the idea. But I thing the fair-use option is more practical and relevant for us (see below).<br />
::::'''Sum up:''' as I shared above, I think we could advise and state that :<br />
::::* Our policy should be based on the law of the land (Europe & France's laws) and current observed online practices.<br />
::::* Our users make fair-use judgement and uploads the lists<br />
::::* Our admins and/or bureaucrats (?) receives the copyrights claims, one of them do a rapid review process on a case by case basis, then remove the list if the complain has merit.<br />
::::This seems a good balance satisfying both relevant laws together with our project's objectives and interests. Can we push this way ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:40, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} This is an awesome idea. I think that it would make a lot of sense to combine a set of frequency lists with official lists, then deduplicate them. This should prevent any copyright claims. We can even think about whether it makes sense to create frequency lists based on data in Project Gutenberg as part of this process. Then, ve should also write a script to automatically add inflections, conjugations, articles, etc. based on wiktionary data. These lists could be the first set of official lists for LL. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} It seems that we need a statement on our expectations for recording quality. In the end, we only need one good pronunciation entry per language + accent. Terrible quality recording help nobody unless they are the only one that we have. It might be worth having a voting system such as on Forvo to help flag good/bad speakers. We can even toy with the idea of a speaker of the week or month to reward those who really help us out. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:+1. We need a quality statement somewhere. It's not perfect but it sets the tone a bit so we may require more quality from contributors. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== Minimal threshold ? ====<br />
I also recommend to push for sets of more that 1000 words. Basically, in the download page, we should compile list by language by all datasets (one speaker one language) of less than 1000 audios should be ignored. We assume that sets of 1000+ audios are autoconfirmed. While sets of <1000 audios are potential beginners and likely noisy ''play-around'' (as for myself ! My audios are just test and not good !). Ideally we would have a download page such as :<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ Download audios<br />
! Language || All audios || Top 1 speaker || Autoconfirmed speakers (≥1000) || Other speakers (≤999)<br />
|- <br />
| French || 88,934 audios by 34 speakers || 47,076 audios by speaker Tom Smith|| 76,567 audios by 4 speakers || 12,367 audios by 30 speakers<br />
|-<br />
| Gascon || ... || ... || ... || ...<br />
|}<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
::''{{done}} a proposal have been documented on phabricator. To keep in mind and follow through there. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::It's a decision by Mr. Vion and {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} if i remember well. Maybe worth creating a [[Help:Formats]].<br />
:::Side note: it also seems to be the time to create categories to class our help pages via several dimensions : scripts, lists, guidelines, recording, ... ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:32, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Thanks, good by me. As long as it improves and is in good faith it's a good practice to allow. ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347481LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-23T02:00:29Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Words variations */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}} see [[User:Titodutta#কোয়েরি]]'s wiki query. I think we can use wiktionary, but I'am unclear how. Maybe it's even available in the Wizard as a built-in feature when you chose the list. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe we should consider "Portals" per language.... with the specific tips, recommended list, active/reference users. Seems a good idea (IF someone ready to attack it XD) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:18, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} You inspired me to create a [[phab:T266306|phabricator ticket]] on how to do this. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC) Edit: Official lists can also help prevent unnecessary duplication of effort. Look at the entry for "arbre" on French Wiktionary. Do we really need 32 pronunciations of "arbre"? Does it make sense to add 32 different sound files to one wiktionary page? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Note: There are various schools of though here on LinguaLibre :<br />
:::* the '''linguists''', which would be happy to have 200,000 version of "arbre" so one could study the variability. <br />
:::* the '''language teachers/learners/learning apps developpers''', who one one clear and standard speaker for 10~30,000 most frequent words, just once each and with zero hole in the dataset.<br />
:::[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:45, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::The profile contains the location of where you learnt a language. City and country, if I remember well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} Correct, but this does not necessarily translate into accent. We're making an assumption that an accent can be geographically located and that all individuals that inhabit that geographic location will have a particular accent. Also, an accent can span across geographic region as well. What's wrong with adding a third parameter called accent? Is there any reason that you feel that it would be detrimental? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::The filenames are already 3 times too long in my opinion......... <br />
::::::I don't remember clearly. But maybe we then assumed the *speaker* to be the data marking the accent. {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} may remember. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::'''Copyrights violations''' are not possible for stand alone lexemes such "狗" (gǒu: dog) from HSK. <br />
::::List are different : lists are specific creation of one's mind so its author can claim copyrights on a given list. <br />
::::Still, the Chinese Ministry of Education which authored the HSK '''''LIST OF SELECTED WORDS''''' and could legally file a copyright complain yet never filed copyrights violations on any for-profit companies to remove their online HSK lists. Then why would the MoE do so for a non-profit ? And if they do, we can simply delete the said list(s).<br />
::::'''Shuffling''' is not enough to claim '''difference and originality''', especially when your page is named "List:cmn/HSK1" ^^<br />
::::To claim originality the minimum would be to substantially edit the list. In order to not loose data, it lead to adding words. The HSK 1 to 6's 8800+ words could indeed be extended to 11000 via a merge with a relevant frequency lists, around this threshold of difference we could start to claim originality. The algo could be ligthly more complex, with ranking... You see the idea. But I thing the fair-use option is more practical and relevant for us (see below).<br />
::::'''Sum up:''' as I shared above, I think we could advise and state that :<br />
::::* Our policy should be based on the law of the land (Europe & France's laws) and current observed online practices.<br />
::::* Our users make fair-use judgement and uploads the lists<br />
::::* Our admins and/or bureaucrats (?) receives the copyrights claims, one of them do a rapid review process on a case by case basis, then remove the list if the complain has merit.<br />
::::This seems a good balance satisfying both relevant laws together with our project's objectives and interests. Can we push this way ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:40, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} This is an awesome idea. I think that it would make a lot of sense to combine a set of frequency lists with official lists, then deduplicate them. This should prevent any copyright claims. We can even think about whether it makes sense to create frequency lists based on data in Project Gutenberg as part of this process. Then, ve should also write a script to automatically add inflections, conjugations, articles, etc. based on wiktionary data. These lists could be the first set of official lists for LL. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} It seems that we need a statement on our expectations for recording quality. In the end, we only need one good pronunciation entry per language + accent. Terrible quality recording help nobody unless they are the only one that we have. It might be worth having a voting system such as on Forvo to help flag good/bad speakers. We can even toy with the idea of a speaker of the week or month to reward those who really help us out. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:+1. We need a quality statement somewhere. It's not perfect but it sets the tone a bit so we may require more quality from contributors. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== Minimal threshold ? ====<br />
I also recommend to push for sets of more that 1000 words. Basically, in the download page, we should compile list by language by all datasets (one speaker one language) of less than 1000 audios should be ignored. We assume that sets of 1000+ audios are autoconfirmed. While sets of <1000 audios are potential beginners and likely noisy ''play-around'' (as for myself ! My audios are just test and not good !). Ideally we would have a download page such as :<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ Download audios<br />
! Language || All audios || Top 1 speaker || Autoconfirmed speakers (≥1000) || Other speakers (≤999)<br />
|- <br />
| French || 88,934 audios by 34 speakers || 47,076 audios by speaker Tom Smith|| 76,567 audios by 4 speakers || 12,367 audios by 30 speakers<br />
|-<br />
| Gascon || ... || ... || ... || ...<br />
|}<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
::''{{done}} a proposal have been documented on phabricator. To keep in mind and follow through there. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::It's a decision by Mr. Vion and {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} if i remember well. Maybe worth creating a [[Help:Formats]].<br />
:::Side note: it also seems to be the time to create categories to class our help pages via several dimensions : scripts, lists, guidelines, recording, ... ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:32, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Thanks, good by me. As long as it improves and is in good faith it's a good practice to allow. ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347411LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-22T22:06:09Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Authoritative lists (& copyrights) */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}} see [[User:Titodutta#কোয়েরি]]'s wiki query. I think we can use wiktionary, but I'am unclear how. Maybe it's even available in the Wizard as a built-in feature when you chose the list. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe we should consider "Portals" per language.... with the specific tips, recommended list, active/reference users. Seems a good idea (IF someone ready to attack it XD) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:18, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC) Edit: Official lists can also help prevent unnecessary duplication of effort. Look at the entry for "arbre" on French Wiktionary. Do we really need 32 pronunciations of "arbre"? Does it make sense to add 32 different sound files to one wiktionary page? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Note: There are various schools of though here on LinguaLibre :<br />
:::* the '''linguists''', which would be happy to have 200,000 version of "arbre" so one could study the variability. <br />
:::* the '''language teachers/learners/learning apps developpers''', who one one clear and standard speaker for 10~30,000 most frequent words, just once each and with zero hole in the dataset.<br />
:::[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:45, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::The profile contains the location of where you learnt a language. City and country, if I remember well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} Correct, but this does not necessarily translate into accent. We're making an assumption that an accent can be geographically located and that all individuals that inhabit that geographic location will have a particular accent. Also, an accent can span across geographic region as well. What's wrong with adding a third parameter called accent? Is there any reason that you feel that it would be detrimental? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::The filenames are already 3 times too long in my opinion......... <br />
::::::I don't remember clearly. But maybe we then assumed the *speaker* to be the data marking the accent. {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} may remember. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::'''Copyrights violations''' are not possible for stand alone lexemes such "狗" (gǒu: dog) from HSK. <br />
::::List are different : lists are specific creation of one's mind so its author can claim copyrights on a given list. <br />
::::Still, the Chinese Ministry of Education which authored the HSK '''''LIST OF SELECTED WORDS''''' and could legally file a copyright complain yet never filed copyrights violations on any for-profit companies to remove their online HSK lists. Then why would the MoE do so for a non-profit ? And if they do, we can simply delete the said list(s).<br />
::::'''Shuffling''' is not enough to claim '''difference and originality''', especially when your page is named "List:cmn/HSK1" ^^<br />
::::To claim originality the minimum would be to substantially edit the list. In order to not loose data, it lead to adding words. The HSK 1 to 6's 8800+ words could indeed be extended to 11000 via a merge with a relevant frequency lists, around this threshold of difference we could start to claim originality. The algo could be ligthly more complex, with ranking... You see the idea. But I thing the fair-use option is more practical and relevant for us (see below).<br />
::::'''Sum up:''' as I shared above, I think we could advise and state that :<br />
::::* Our policy should be based on the law of the land (Europe & France's laws) and current observed online practices.<br />
::::* Our users make fair-use judgement and uploads the lists<br />
::::* Our admins and/or bureaucrats (?) receives the copyrights claims, one of them do a rapid review process on a case by case basis, then remove the list if the complain has merit.<br />
::::This seems a good balance satisfying both relevant laws together with our project's objectives and interests. Can we push this way ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:40, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} This is an awesome idea. I think that it would make a lot of sense to combine a set of frequency lists with official lists, then deduplicate them. This should prevent any copyright claims. We can even think about whether it makes sense to create frequency lists based on data in Project Gutenberg as part of this process. Then, ve should also write a script to automatically add inflections, conjugations, articles, etc. based on wiktionary data. These lists could be the first set of official lists for LL. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} It seems that we need a statement on our expectations for recording quality. In the end, we only need one good pronunciation entry per language + accent. Terrible quality recording help nobody unless they are the only one that we have. It might be worth having a voting system such as on Forvo to help flag good/bad speakers. We can even toy with the idea of a speaker of the week or month to reward those who really help us out. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:+1. We need a quality statement somewhere. It's not perfect but it sets the tone a bit so we may require more quality from contributors. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== Minimal threshold ? ====<br />
I also recommend to push for sets of more that 1000 words. Basically, in the download page, we should compile list by language by all datasets (one speaker one language) of less than 1000 audios should be ignored. We assume that sets of 1000+ audios are autoconfirmed. While sets of <1000 audios are potential beginners and likely noisy ''play-around'' (as for myself ! My audios are just test and not good !). Ideally we would have a download page such as :<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ Download audios<br />
! Language || All audios || Top 1 speaker || Autoconfirmed speakers (≥1000) || Other speakers (≤999)<br />
|- <br />
| French || 88,934 audios by 34 speakers || 47,076 audios by speaker Tom Smith|| 76,567 audios by 4 speakers || 12,367 audios by 30 speakers<br />
|-<br />
| Gascon || ... || ... || ... || ...<br />
|}<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
::''{{done}} a proposal have been documented on phabricator. To keep in mind and follow through there. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::It's a decision by Mr. Vion and {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} if i remember well. Maybe worth creating a [[Help:Formats]].<br />
:::Side note: it also seems to be the time to create categories to class our help pages via several dimensions : scripts, lists, guidelines, recording, ... ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:32, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Thanks, good by me. As long as it improves and is in good faith it's a good practice to allow. ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347410LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-22T22:04:37Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Authoritative lists (& copyrights) */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}} see [[User:Titodutta#কোয়েরি]]'s wiki query. I think we can use wiktionary, but I'am unclear how. Maybe it's even available in the Wizard as a built-in feature when you chose the list. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Maybe we should consider "Portals" per language.... with the specific tips, recommended list, active/reference users. Seems a good idea (IF someone ready to attack it XD) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:18, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC) Edit: Official lists can also help prevent unnecessary duplication of effort. Look at the entry for "arbre" on French Wiktionary. Do we really need 32 pronunciations of "arbre"? Does it make sense to add 32 different sound files to one wiktionary page? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Note: There are various schools of though here on LinguaLibre :<br />
:::* the '''linguists''', which would be happy to have 200,000 version of "arbre" so one could study the variability. <br />
:::* the '''language teachers/learners/learning apps developpers''', who one one clear and standard speaker for 10~30,000 most frequent words, just once each and with zero hole in the dataset.<br />
:::[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:45, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::The profile contains the location of where you learnt a language. City and country, if I remember well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} Correct, but this does not necessarily translate into accent. We're making an assumption that an accent can be geographically located and that all individuals that inhabit that geographic location will have a particular accent. Also, an accent can span across geographic region as well. What's wrong with adding a third parameter called accent? Is there any reason that you feel that it would be detrimental? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::The filenames are already 3 times too long in my opinion......... <br />
::::::I don't remember clearly. But maybe we then assumed the *speaker* to be the data marking the accent. {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} may remember. --[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::'''Copyrights violations''' are not possible for stand alone lexemes such "狗" (gǒu: dog) from HSK. <br />
::::List are different : lists are specific creation of one's mind so its author can claim copyrights on a given list. <br />
::::Still, the Chinese Ministry of Education which authored the HSK '''''LIST OF SELECTED WORDS''''' and could legally file a copyright complain yet never filed copyrights violations on any for-profit companies to remove their online HSK lists. Then why would the MoE do so for a non-profit ? And if they do, we can simply delete the said list(s).<br />
::::'''Shuffling''' is not enough to claim '''difference and originality''', especially when your page is named "List:cmn/HSK1" ^^<br />
::::To claim originality the minimum would be to substantially edit the list. In order to not loose data, it lead to adding words. The HSK 1 to 6's 8800+ words could indeed be extended to 11000 via a merge with a relevant frequency lists, around this threshold of difference we could start to claim originality. The algo could be ligthly more complex, with ranking... You see the idea. But I thing the fair-use option is more practical and relevant for us (see below).<br />
::::'''Sum up:''' as I shared above, I think we could advise and state that :<br />
::::* Our policy should be based on the law of the land (Europe & France's laws) and current observed online practices.<br />
::::* Our users make fair-use judgement and uploads the lists<br />
::::* Our admins and/or bureaucrats (?) receives the copyrights claims, one of them do a rapid review process on a case by case basis, then remove the list if the complain has merit.<br />
::::This seems a good balance satisfying both relevant laws together with our project's objectives and interests. Can we push this way ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:40, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} This is an awesome idea. I think that it would make a lot of sense to combine a set of frequency lists with official lists, then deduplicate them. This should prevent any copyright claims. We should also write a script to automatically add inflections, conjugations, articles, etc. based on wiktionary data. This could provide us with the first set of official lists that will common the most commonly used words. We can even think about whether it makes sense to create frequency lists based on data in Project Gutenberg as part of this process. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} It seems that we need a statement on our expectations for recording quality. In the end, we only need one good pronunciation entry per language + accent. Terrible quality recording help nobody unless they are the only one that we have. It might be worth having a voting system such as on Forvo to help flag good/bad speakers. We can even toy with the idea of a speaker of the week or month to reward those who really help us out. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:+1. We need a quality statement somewhere. It's not perfect but it sets the tone a bit so we may require more quality from contributors. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== Minimal threshold ? ====<br />
I also recommend to push for sets of more that 1000 words. Basically, in the download page, we should compile list by language by all datasets (one speaker one language) of less than 1000 audios should be ignored. We assume that sets of 1000+ audios are autoconfirmed. While sets of <1000 audios are potential beginners and likely noisy ''play-around'' (as for myself ! My audios are just test and not good !). Ideally we would have a download page such as :<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ Download audios<br />
! Language || All audios || Top 1 speaker || Autoconfirmed speakers (≥1000) || Other speakers (≤999)<br />
|- <br />
| French || 88,934 audios by 34 speakers || 47,076 audios by speaker Tom Smith|| 76,567 audios by 4 speakers || 12,367 audios by 30 speakers<br />
|-<br />
| Gascon || ... || ... || ... || ...<br />
|}<br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
::''{{done}} a proposal have been documented on phabricator. To keep in mind and follow through there. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)''<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::It's a decision by Mr. Vion and {{reply to|Lyokoï|p=}} if i remember well. Maybe worth creating a [[Help:Formats]].<br />
:::Side note: it also seems to be the time to create categories to class our help pages via several dimensions : scripts, lists, guidelines, recording, ... ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:32, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Thanks, good by me. As long as it improves and is in good faith it's a good practice to allow. ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347383LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-22T20:10:08Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Accents matter */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC) Edit: Official lists can also help prevent unnecessary duplication of effort. Look at the entry for "arbre" on French Wiktionary. Do we really need 32 pronunciations of "arbre"? Does it make sense to add 32 different sound files to one wiktionary page? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::The profile contains the location of where you learnt a language. City and country, if I remember well. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Yug}} Correct, but this does not necessarily translate into accent. We're making an assumption that an accent can be geographically located and that all individuals that inhabit that geographic location will have a particular accent. Also, an accent can span across geographic region as well. What's wrong with adding a third parameter called accent? Is there any reason that you feel that it would be detrimental? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::'''Copyrights violations''' are not possible for stand alone lexemes such "狗" (gǒu: dog) from HSK. <br />
::::List are different : lists are specific creation of one's mind so its author can claim copyrights on a given list. <br />
::::Still, the Chinese Ministry of Education which authored the HSK '''''LIST OF SELECTED WORDS''''' and could legally file a copyright complain yet never filed copyrights violations on any for-profit companies to remove their online HSK lists. Then why would the MoE do so for a non-profit ? And if they do, we can simply delete the said list(s).<br />
::::'''Shuffling''' is not enough to claim '''difference and originality''', especially when your page is named "List:cmn/HSK1" ^^<br />
::::To claim originality the minimum would be to substantially edit the list. In order to not loose data, it lead to adding words. The HSK 1 to 6's 8800+ words could indeed be extended to 11000 via a merge with a relevant frequency lists, around this threshold of difference we could start to claim originality. The algo could be ligthly more complex, with ranking... You see the idea. But I thing the fair-use option is more practical and relevant for us (see below).<br />
::::'''Sum up:''' as I shared above, I think we could advise and state that :<br />
::::* Our policy should be based on the law of the land (Europe & France's laws) and current observed online practices.<br />
::::* Our users make fair-use judgement and uploads the lists<br />
::::* Our admins and/or bureaucrats (?) receives the copyrights claims, one of them do a rapid review process on a case by case basis, then remove the list if the complain has merit.<br />
::::This seems a good balance satisfying both relevant laws together with our project's objectives and interests. Can we push this way ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:40, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} It seems that we need a statement on our expectations for recording quality. In the end, we only need one good pronunciation entry per language + accent. Terrible quality recording help nobody unless they are the only one that we have. It might be worth having a voting system such as on Forvo to help flag good/bad speakers. We can even toy with the idea of a speaker of the week or month to reward those who really help us out. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Thanks, good by me. As long as it improves and is in good faith it's a good practice to allow. ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347349LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-22T16:46:41Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC) Edit: Official lists can also help prevent unnecessary duplication of effort. Look at the entry for "arbre" on French Wiktionary. Do we really need 32 pronunciations of "arbre"? Does it make sense to add 32 different sound files to one wiktionary page? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} It seems that we need a statement on our expectations for recording quality. In the end, we only need one good pronunciation entry per language + accent. Terrible quality recording help nobody unless they are the only one that we have. It might be worth having a voting system such as on Forvo to help flag good/bad speakers. We can even toy with the idea of a speaker of the week or month to reward those who really help us out. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:46, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347348LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-22T16:06:43Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Site supplied lists */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC) Edit: Official lists can also help prevent unnecessary duplication of effort. Look at the entry for "arbre" on French Wiktionary. Do we really need 32 pronunciations of "arbre"? Does it make sense to add 32 different sound files to one wiktionary page? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347347LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-22T16:04:37Z<p>Languageseeker: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Agreed, we shouldn't worry too much about copyrights until someone submits a claim and then remove the entries. I think it'd be very difficult to file a copyright claim for "chien." We could also automatically reorder list to prevent an argument that the specific order makes them somehow under copyright. We could also rely on corpuses in the PD at first. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347346LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-22T16:00:11Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Accents matter */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::{{ping|Eavq|wikiLucas00|DSwissK|Nicolas_Lopez_de_Silanes_WMFr}} Hello DSwissK. I was not there, I'am too far off (near Spain, 800km). Need to ask WikiLucas, Eavq and Nicolas. See also [[LinguaLibre:Formations_CCWL]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
:For "user supplied lists" and "site supplied lists" there are some ongoing efforts this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [EDIT]: We have help pages recommending and demonstrating how to create frequency lists for better impact. See [[Help:Main]]> search "frequency". [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::(Note: I edited my paragraph above.) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
:''See also: [[Help:Renaming]] (using metadata tags).<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, <code>LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> contains no accent information. <code>LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav</code> would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Languageseeker}}: I believe information on accent is conserved thanks to the file '''metadata'''. To make them more visible, see [[Help:Renaming]] and fish metadata tag' value to push it into the new filename of your desired shape. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Yug}} I don't see accents on either user profiles or on Wiki Commons. See: speaker [[Q141723]] for instance. Accents should be easily visible and filterable. For Example, on commons there should be a category for Lingua Libre pronunciation in French (Parisian Accent). On the description page for a file on Commons, there should be "AccendId" under "languageId" [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 16:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists (& copyrights) ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Languageseeker|Pamputt}} Actually, we are not Wikipedia nor Commons. So we could set up our own copyright rule in accordance with the server's geographic localisation and associated laws. We can consider, like Anki and Skritter.com do, that we are just '''hosting content uploaded by the user, who is the legally responsible party''', and as the European and French law commands: we will take down any content '''following a formal complain'''. This is the true legal requirement we have in France. Our (LinguaLibre) rules don't have to be as pro-active as Wikipedia or Commons, which decided to go beyond what is legally required. Where we put the cursor is really up to us. It's a matter of internal policies. Some tolerance such as the one I cited above could be greatly advantageous to LinguaLibre's objectives. Indeed, it's the strategy that took Anki, Skritter, Memzine, Duolinguo, and many other actor of online language learning. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Personnally, I think we should argue more for good microphones and silent room. We frequently run after users and get lightly-noisy audios which are not satisfying. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket.<br />
:::[EDIT]:Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Awesome. Thank you :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Do you know of who, aside of 0x010C, given some new CSS added to the github repository... could deploy the code live ? Do we have this skills / know-how ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Code !! Redering<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
<source lang="wiki"><br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</source><br />
|<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
|}</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347318LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-22T05:22:49Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Anki plugin */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
: User supplied lists/Site supplied lists there are some efforts on this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, "LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" contains no accent information. "LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Ticket created for [[phab:T266209|Anki Plugin]]. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347277LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-22T02:16:23Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Anki plugin */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
: User supplied lists/Site supplied lists there are some efforts on this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, "LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" contains no accent information. "LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Appreciated. I'll write up a full proposal in the next few days and open a Phabricator ticket. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347275LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-21T23:12:24Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Discussions */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
: User supplied lists/Site supplied lists there are some efforts on this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, "LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" contains no accent information. "LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] Thank you!! [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347274LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-21T23:11:12Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
: User supplied lists/Site supplied lists there are some efforts on this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, "LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" contains no accent information. "LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Most of this has to do with recording equipment. On Forvo, recording quality is usually pretty fairly consistent for users. We may have to flag users with recording quality issues and delete their files. It could be a manually review process for a few files or batch deletion. The same would be true for users with terrible or fake accents. (Think Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins) [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347273LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-21T23:06:48Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Accents matter */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
: User supplied lists/Site supplied lists there are some efforts on this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, "LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" contains no accent information. "LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: But, geographic location is not an accurate predictor for an accent because people move around and some have speaking impediments. For example, you can have an American living in Paris or a Parisian living in America. Who will speak the words more accurately? A person living in London could speak the Queen's English or have a Cockney accent. Especially for language learning, accents are important. We're not judging accents, but merely tagging their existence per speaker. If a user has an incorrect accent listed, I believe that mods should be able to change it annd Lingua Libre will automatically retag all their pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347272LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-21T23:00:46Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Site supplied lists */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
: User supplied lists/Site supplied lists there are some efforts on this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: It's related to the previous item. If we create official lists, we should not adopt the last-in/first-pronounced model of Forvo. On Forvo, the last word added is the first word in the list for users to pronounce. Speakers have no option to change the way that the list is generated. I believe that we should have more flexibility. Instead of displaying the last words first, I'm proposing that LL randomly sorts the list by default. We could also add a drop-down menu with: Random, Newest, and Oldest. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:00, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, "LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" contains no accent information. "LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347271LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-21T22:56:34Z<p>Languageseeker: /* User supplied lists */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
: User supplied lists/Site supplied lists there are some efforts on this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Precisely, I'm not against allowing speakers to pronounce whatever they want, but we should have some official list of what we want pronounced. This is why I also suggested the different forms that we should target, especially if we begin to suggest words for users to pronounce. Otherwise, people will begin adding lists with misspelled words or phrases that have no widespread usage. This will create unnecessary work for editors to correct and delete. Do we really want discussions about whether or not "The Pink Adrietic restaurant will closed today at 9:30 due to an alien invasjon" should be on the official list at this stage? What will we do if a user adds 60,000 of these? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:56, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, "LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" contains no accent information. "LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347270LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-21T22:45:35Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Words priority */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Could we use wiktionary to help create this official list? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:45, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
: User supplied lists/Site supplied lists there are some efforts on this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, "LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" contains no accent information. "LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347269LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-21T22:44:28Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Words variations */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
<br />
=== Words priority ===<br />
Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
: We recommend frequency lists and authoritative this, but the copyright status of those are embiguous. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Words variations ===<br />
For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
: Words variations and verbs are typical to English and western languages. I'am not sure how each language process those questions, but I think we have no recommendation in place. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This is why I believe it is important to create recommendations in place before the site gets too large. We don't want to have to manually deal with these issues latter. I know that the editors of Forvo are struggling with precisely this issue, especially in English. The best thing to do would be to create a bot to tag alternative spellings, generate files for them, and automatically generating the pages for the alternative spelling. For example, in French, you have électroménager and électro-ménager . If a user pronounces either one of these orthographic variations, the bot should generate files and pages for both variations. Otherwise, we'll be asking to effectively pronounce the same word multiple times. It would also probably be helpful to create a bot to scrape alternative spellings from wiktionary. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== For verbs ===<br />
It's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
: As for the previous point, each user is free to record whatever he/she wants. So the question becomes how to manage/organise/browser all the recordings. For that point, everything has to be done so your point of view is more than welcome. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== User supplied lists ===<br />
They are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
: User supplied lists/Site supplied lists there are some efforts on this side. An user can create a list which becomes a site supplied list for later users. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: If I understand correctly, you suggest to have "official" lists that are proofread so that we can propose these lists in priority to the users. I think it is a good idea because some users do not always know which words to record. We should open a Phrabicator ticket to keep track of that feature request. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Site supplied lists ===<br />
Such lists of words that usersy can pronounce are better from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
: I am not sure to understand exactly what you mean. Is it related to the previous item? Could you give an example? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accents matter ===<br />
They should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, "LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" contains no accent information. "LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
: The choice has been done to tag the location in the wiki metadata. Indeed, people are not always aware that they have an accent and an accent can highly vary in a given country or region. So it becomes difficult to find the good granularity. So that, saving the location allow to write some query to get exactly the recordings we are interested in. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Authoritative lists ===<br />
Lists such as HSK or JLPT should be an high priority. This would help language learners the most.<br />
: No problem to import such lists if they are not copyrighted. No idea on that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Recording quality and post recording clean ups matters ===<br />
Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
: We have no or weak process for that. There are documented methods to denoise audios, see : [[Help:SoX]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Yes, some tools have to been developed to control that. Ideas are welcomed. About denoising, a [[phab:T251638|ticket]] already exists to add by default in the Record Wizard. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Volume normalization ===<br />
It should be automatically provided across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
: Volume normalization : we already have some normalization, we reject low db and high db recordings. But I cannot specify the exact mechanism : per file ? per recording set? I think it's the former. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: This has already been proposed and is saved in [[phab:T213535|ticket]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Anki plugin ===<br />
It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
: Anki plugin: YES, it's about 1~2 day work. Maybe Anki folks could help.<br />
:# Read Anki's documentation for Anki decks folder's syntax<br />
:# Download the target [https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ language folder]<br />
:# Create a bash script to pick up the filepaths, the words, and create the Anki decks file with the proper syntax.<br />
:# Document process to share file with Anki community [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Please, feel free to open a Phabricator ticket to keep in mind this need. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Flac ===<br />
Files should be uploaded and stored as '''flac files''' to enable '''tagging''' and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
: Tagging and flacs : we do tag files in the files' code; we already have long discussion about file formats and chose to keep .wav together with sharing scripts to mass convert to alternative formats. See [[Help:Convert_audios%3F]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: I was not aware about the reason of choosing the wave format. Concerning FLAC, there is [[phab:T213534|a ticket]] explaining why it is interesting (in addition of the points given here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Discussions ===<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Languageseeker}}Hi there, thank you for this review. I edited your points and added bold so the key topics are more visible and we agree on naming for the discussion to continue. I will try to answer to several of your points [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:47, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I reorganised by section and move your answer, Yug, so that it will be easier to follow the different points (I hope so). I will add some answers as well. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets to download ==<br />
Hello the team, I just noticed that https://lingualibre.org/datasets/ which is central for external developers such Anki's community to reuse our audios work has been lost in the recent UI revamp. Any idea where to put it back so it stays highly visible ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:The dates visible are also mainly from 2019. Any idea what they are ? First compilation ? Last compilation ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CSS fixes ==<br />
:See [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]<br />
There is clearly some CSS to update. Most notably for the H2, H3, H4 section titles *within wikipedia pages*. I will test some solutions soon. Feel free to test other CSS aspects in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (admin only?) or in [[User:Yourname/common.css]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== H2 ==<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
=== H3 ===<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
==== H4 ====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
===== H5 =====<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.<br />
;Should be bold<br />
Paragraph.<br />
:Paragraph.</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347106LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-20T23:35:32Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Priorities of Lingua Libre */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
# Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
# For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
# For verbs, it's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
# User supplied lists are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
# It's better to provide users with a list of words that they can pronounce from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
# Accents matter and should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, "LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" contains no accent information. "LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
# We should initially focus on completing authoritative list such as HSK or JLPT. This would help language learners the most.<br />
# Recording quality matters. Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
# Recording level should be automatically normalized across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
# It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved.<br />
# Files should be uploaded and stored as flac files to enable tagging and reduce file user. All modern browsers use flac and it's emerged as the default lossless audio compression format that is widely supported across different devices. Tagging will help keep the metadata with the file and enable easier renaming by end user or bots.<br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347105LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-20T22:38:03Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Priorities of Lingua Libre */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
# Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
# For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
# For verbs, it's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
# User supplied lists are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors. Only after we finish pronouncing all the headwords and verbs should we open this to general suggestions.<br />
# It's better to provide users with a list of words that they can pronounce from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
# Accents matter and should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, "LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" contains no accent information. "LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
# We should initially focus on completing authoritative list such as HSK or JLPT. This would help language learners the most.<br />
# Recording quality matters. Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
# Recording level should be automatically normalized across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
# It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved. <br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347104LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-20T21:05:08Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Priorities of Lingua Libre */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
# Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
# For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
# For verbs, it's best to focus on the irregular and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
# User supplied lists are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors.<br />
# It's better to provide users with a list of words that they can pronounce from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
# Accents matter and should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, "LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" contains no accent information. "LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
# We should initially focus on completing authoritative list such as HSK or JLPT. This would help language learners the most.<br />
# Recording quality matters. Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
# Recording level should be automatically normalized across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
# It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved. <br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 21:04, 20 October 2020 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347103LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-20T21:04:49Z<p>Languageseeker: /* Priorities of Lingua Libre */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
# Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
# For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
# For verbs, it's best to focus on the irregular ones and model ones first. It's also makes sense to pronounce them in all the possible permutations. For example, in French, il/elle/on est should have the following entries: "il est", "elle est", "on est", "il/elle/on est", and "est"<br />
# User supplied lists are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors.<br />
# It's better to provide users with a list of words that they can pronounce from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
# Accents matter and should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, "LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" contains no accent information. "LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
# We should initially focus on completing authoritative list such as HSK or JLPT. This would help language learners the most.<br />
# Recording quality matters. Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
# Recording level should be automatically normalized across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
# It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved. <br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC) Edited on [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 21:04, 20 October 2020 (UTC)</div>Languageseekerhttps://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Chat_room&diff=347102LinguaLibre:Chat room2020-10-20T19:39:00Z<p>Languageseeker: /* a. Multiple recordings of the same word */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#SUBTITLE:{{/Header}}}}<br />
<indicator name="talk"></indicator><br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Chatroom FAQ ==<br />
* '''How to download all audios of one language ? By speaker ?'''<br />
** Languages are there [https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/ https://lingualibre.fr/datasets/]. A short server-side script is auto-ran every 2 days, itself using [https://github.com/lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool lingua-libre/CommonsDownloadTool]. For more, see [[Help:Download from LinguaLibre]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to add missing languages ?'''<br />
** Administrators can add new languages, they do so within few days. For users, please provide your language's [[:wikipedia:iso-639-3|iso-639-3]] code + link to the en.wikipedia.org's article. Optional infos are the common English name and wikidata IQ. For more, see [[Help:Add a new language]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to archive sections which have been answered ?'''<br />
** After reviewing the section, add `<code><nowiki>{{done}} -- can be closed ~~~~</nowiki></code>` to the top of the section. After few days to 2 weeks, move the section's code to [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to keep my wikimedia project up to date ?'''<br />
** Contact [[User talk:0x010C|User:0x010C]], the botmaster of Lingua Libre Bot. For more, see [[Help:Bots]].<br />
<br />
* '''What IRL event.s are coming ? When ? Where ?'''<br />
** Nothing coming. For more, see [[LinguaLibre:Events]].<br />
<br />
* '''How to translate LinguaLibre User Interface into a new language ?'''<br />
** Go to [https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=mwgithub-recordwizard&language=fr&filter=%21translated&action=translate translatewiki.net], change the url part <code>fr</code> into your language's [[:en:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes|ISO 639-2 code]]. For more, see [[Help:Translate]].<br />
<br />
== Custom Commons filename ==<br />
:{{Done}}<br />
Sorry if this is obvious.<br />
<br />
How can I upload files to Commons with my preferred file name?<br />
<br />
For example [[:File:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Commander Keane-phonate.wav]] should ideally be named [[:File:En-au-phonate.ogg]]. Regards --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 05:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi, the file are named this way to allow several people to record the same word. Thus, it is possible to have several recordings for "phonate" from differents places in Australia (and other countries) and also to have different prononciations from the same location (gender, age, ...). A way to avoid to use the ame file name is to use the username in the filename. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it possible to have my dialect (AU) specified on the Commons file description page?--[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] ([[User talk:Commander Keane|talk]]) 03:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Commander Keane}} a dialect is a language without an army. Most dialect actually have a dedicated iso-639.3. In your case it seems more like an ''accent''. Your files will be tagged with you as the author, as well as your linguistic properties defined on your speaker profile (name, gender, place of learning mainly). As for tagging your files with <code>AU</code>, it would require a bot. Bots are simple codes which do automatic actions via [[:mw:API]], possibly on Commons, to enrich the file's pages. You are not the first to request such feature, so it may one day come. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:48, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::See [[:mw:API:Edit]] and [[:mw:API:Get]] for your wish, there is python and javascript avenues. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Have your say on Lingua Libre's 2020-2021 strategy and more ==<br />
<br />
Dear all,<br />
<br />
I hope you are all doing fine in these difficult times.<br />
<br />
For those of you who couldn't take part in the volunteer meeting, you can find the key points that were addressed here : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre<br />
<br />
Following the discussions we had during this meeting and the vote of the budget by the association last Saturday, here are some elements that I would like to open up for discussion :<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the logo : given that the graphic redesign in process is finishing soon and that the search for a new logo has not been successful https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T240552, I suggest that we adapt the current logo to the new colour and keep it until further notice.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
- with regards to the strategy : several of you manifested the need to make the Lingua Libre community bigger and more international, I therefore suggest that we work on this aspect in the September 2020-June 2021 timeframe with :<br />
<br />
1) the integration of a more ergonomic and mutilingual discussion space inviting for discussion and collaboration notably for newcomers on the website<br />
<br />
2) the development of Say It, an audio variant of the Sign It extension https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/lingua-libre-signit/#&gid=1&pid=3 that would display instead of the word in sign language, its pronunciation from the LL audio in a pop-up window when highlighting the word in any webpage, this would allow for a more concrete and immediate impact for a broader range of web users, not only wikimedians<br />
<br />
3) the organisation of a series of hackatons destined to develop Lingua Libre bots towards other wiktionaries - these could make Lingua Libre more known rapidly and efficiently<br />
<br />
4) once the graphic redesign complete, a series of editathons for the renewal and development of the website contents : the improvement of tutorial pages aiding contribution in particular, but also the writing of project pages exemplifying what certain communites achieved and are working on with Lingua Libre, and the translation in as many languages necessary and possible<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For those who wish to take part in the development of Lingua Libre in the long term, I suggest that we schedule a remote meeting to discuss the execution of the 4 points above (or their revision!) before the official beginning of the 2020-2021 year in June.<br />
<br />
In order to ensure the stability and coherence of the project, we could also discuss on this occasion the constitution of a strategic volunteer committee to supervise the phases of development of Lingua Libre along the semesters.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you for taking the time to vote for the future of the logo here : https://framadate.org/gSfBpVYeqzYWXLn6<br />
<br />
and write down your availabilities for a meeeting in April-May 2020 if interested : https://framadate.org/kdn7tGoqDgjpAj5i<br />
<br />
you can also give us your feedback on the 4 points above on this pad : https://notes.wikimedia.fr/p/2020-02-29_Lingua_Libre_Follow-up<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you in advance for your replies, apologies for the length of this email, and good luck for the lockdown...<br />
<br />
One last thing: do not hesitate to forward this email to all those who you suspect may not be on the mailing list but would be interested to join, or to post this message below in various discussion pages (to be polished at will).<br />
<br />
Hi! In case you have ever contributed to Lingua Libre but are not on the mailing list, please consider signing up here : https://lists.wikimedia.fr/info/lingualibre to receive updates and take part in the discussions around the project :)<br />
<br />
Best regards, Emma Vadillo Quesada<br />
<br />
== concours #Wikicheznous sur les projets wikimedia ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br />
<br/>Wikimédia France lance le concours #wikicheznous pendant le confinement : du 8 avril au 6 mai, vous êtes invité⋅e⋅s à contribuer sur les projets wikimédia ainsi que sur lingua libre et vikidia. Sur lingua libre, ce sont les contributions en langues autres qu'Anglais et Français qui pourront concourir. Il suffit de vous inscrire sur le [https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikim%C3%A9dia_France/Wiki_chez_nous/enroll dashboard] pour que vos contributions soient comptabilisées via commons. Alors à vos micros ! et n'hésitez pas à aller faire un tour du côté des autres projets wikimedia.<br />
<br/> Pour plus de renseignements, rendez-vous ici : https://www.wikimedia.fr/lancement-de-loperation-wikicheznous/ <br />
<br/>Bon courage et amusez-vous bien.<br />
--[[User:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|Adélaïde Calais WMFr]] ([[User talk:Adélaïde Calais WMFr|talk]]) 12:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Record Wizard translation ==<br />
:{{done}} {{ping|0x010C}} I assume this issue is closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:40, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Hi, can someone please merge the translation at Translate.wiki? I translated Record Wizard into Japanese several weeks ago. Thanks in advance. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 14:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi Higa4 and thank you for the translations in Japanese. I do not know how often Lingua Libre get the new translations from Translate Wiki. [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] certainly knows. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 14:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for your comment. Anyway,I hope someday when having time. [[User:Higa4|Higa4]] ([[User talk:Higa4|talk]]) 07:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hi Higa4, Usually translations are pulled every day from TranslateWiki, but due to a main technical overhaul in recent weeks, this has been temporarily stopped. Translations will be pulled again in a week or two :). Thanks for your involvement! — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 08:04, 21 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Premier essai ==<br />
<br />
J'ai fait un premier essai d'enregistrement ! Je trouve l'ensemble assez sympa. J'ai enregistré plus de 50 mots, je suis fier ! Voir https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Touam<br />
<br />
Les innévitables questions :<br />
* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
<br />
En tous cas cet outil me séduit bien. je vais essayer de continuer. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour Touam et bienvenue sur Lingua Libre. Tout d'abord, félicitations pour ces premiers enregistrements. En espérant que ça sera le début d'une très longue série. Concernant tes questions<br />
:* Comment ça se passe ensuite pour que ces mots aillent sur le wiktionnaire ?<br />
::C'est ajouté automatiquement chaque nuit par [https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Lingua_Libre_Bot Lingua Libre Bot].<br />
:* J'ai remarqué que la catégorie "Lingua Libre pronunciation by Touam" sur Commons restait en lien rouge... Pourquoi ? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire pour qu'elle passe en bleu, ou du moins en quelque chose de consultable ?<br />
::Oui, je crois qu'il faut créer cette catégorie manuellement. Tu peux t'inspirer de [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation_by_Pamputt la catégorie me concernant].<br />
:* Y a-t-il des projets pour autre chose que des mots ?<br />
:: Tu penses à quoi en particulier ? Il est possible d'enregistrer des vidéos pour des mots en langue des signes. Pour le reste, n'hésite pas à indiquer quels seraient tes souhaits.<br />
: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Merci Pamputt pour ton aide, je voudrais bien continuer, mais les téléchargements vers Commons ne fonctionnent plus ? --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Etrange, ça fonctionne pour d'autres. Tu peux réessayer ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Je viens de re-éssayer et ça ne veut toujours pas télécharger vers Commons. J'ai enregistré "acronymie" et "anonymie". Ça me dit juste "Aucun téléversement n'a réussi" et ça me met un point d'exclamation rouge au niveau de chaque mot dans le record wizard. J'utilise firefox sous Linux Mint. Voilà tu sais tout je crois. Et je suis bien logué, comme tu peux le voir à ma signature. (qui d'ailleurs, n'est pas dans les boutons de l'éditeur de wikicode ?? ). --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 20:01, 30 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Re-essayé ce matin avec "je" "tu" "il" - je racourcis mes mots de plus en plus - toujours pareil. Je suis en plein désespoir. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 06:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: Il s'agit donc de la dernière étape, là où Lingua Libre essaie d'envoyer les enregistrements sur Wikimedia Commons. Ca m'arrive parfois sur quelques enregistrements. Est-ce que tu peux essayer sur un autre navigateur juste pour voir si ça se passe mieux ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:04, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::: Oui, je viens d'essayer avec Chromium Version 81.0.4044.122 (Build officiel) Built on Ubuntu , running on LinuxMint 19.3 (64 bits), même mauvais résultat. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 13:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::: Hmmm, c'est effectivement frustrant. Je n'ai aucune idée du pourquoi du comment. Peut-être que 0x010C a quelques explications. Et juste pour être sûr, tu n'a pas de problème pour envoyer directement des fichiers depuis le site de Wikimedia Commons ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Un Stewart a bloqué une grosse plage d'IP sur tous les projets Wikimedia. Le blocage du serveur de Lingua Libre a été un dégât collatéral et accidentel. Thibaut, un administrateur de Commons, vient de lever le blocage sur Commons pour résoudre le problème, merci à lui.<br />
:Cordialement, — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: Oui, merci à tous deux, j'ai pu enfin enregistrer "je" "tu" "il" ! Je vais m'engager à enregistrer des mots plus complexes, maintenant... Si vous avez des conseils à me donner... --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 16:59, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: Nickel, pour les listes de mots, ça dépend de tes envies. Si tu veux tu peux enregistrer les noms des villages autour de chez toi ou de ton département. Tu peux importer des listes de mots en récupérant directement le contenu d'une catégorie du dictionnaire (verbe, nom de métiers, animaux, vocabulaire technique, etc). Bref il y a le choix. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: Voilà je viens de faire un peu plus de 100 mots, tout s'est bien passé. J'ai observé que, sur le wiktionnaire, il ne m'ajoute pas les mots dans ma liste de suivi, alors que sur Commons il me les rajoute bien. Bug or Feature ? ([https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/it%E2%80%99s_not_a_bug,_it%E2%80%99s_a_feature it’s not a bug, it’s a feature] sur le wiktionnaire). Perso je préfèrerais ajouter ces mots dans ma liste de suivi wiktionnaire. --[[User:Touam|Touam]] ([[User talk:Touam|talk]]) 12:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: Pour la liste de suivi, c'est facile à faire sur Commons car tu es le créateur du fichier en tant qu'''uploadeur''. Sur le Wiktionnaire, c'est Lingua Libre Bot qui ajoute les prononciations audio dans les pages donc je ne sais pas s'il est possible techniquement d'ajouter une page dans la liste de suivi de quelqu'un d'autres (j'aurais tendance à penser que non). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:47, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Compilation de textes ==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Y a-t-il un outil qui permet de soumettre un texte, et il compilera automatiquement les enregistrements de mots ?<br />
<br />
[[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]) 13:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:Bonjour AirSThib, juste pour être sûr de bien comprendre ce que tu veux ; tu voudrais copier coller un long texte dans la fenêtre d'ajout de mots et que Lingua Libre « découpe » automatiquement les mots pour que tu puisses ensuite les enregistrer un par un. C'est bien ça ? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Bonjour @[[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] En fait c'est plutôt l'inverse, je voudrais que j'entre un texte et que Lingua Libre compile les mots, les ajoute bout à bout pour créer un texte enregistré. [[User:AirSThib|AirSThib]] ([[User talk:AirSThib|talk]]), le 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC).<br />
:::Non, ce n'est pas encore possible d'enregistrer un texte, un poème ou n'importe quoi d'autres de long. Pour le moment Lingua Libre détecte les blancs et passe au mot suivant ; c'est son seul mode de fonctionnement. Mais ta demande revient régulièrement donc j'ai ouvert [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T251866 un ticket sur Phabricator] pour en garder trace. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 10:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|AirSThib}} Did Pamputt answered your question ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One word, one language, one page ==<br />
<br />
The most important change I think to attract people to the project is to make it super user-friendly to browse existing content. That should be done by having a separate page per word per language. When people can browse and listen to the existing content easily, they will be motivated to add content themselves. Compare a site like Forvo which has 9535 NL speakers contributing https://forvo.com/languages/nl/, whereas LinguaLibre has only 1 NL speaker.<br />
<br />
A possible structure would be:<br />
<br />
* /fr/ would be the home page for French words<br />
* /fr/word/chien would be the page for the French word "chien"<br />
* /fr/audio/joe-bloggs would be the page listing the links to all the recordings from Joe Bloggs<br />
<br />
A more sophisticated URL scheme could be:<br />
* /fr/word/chien-12345 would be the page for the French word "chien" with unique id 12345<br />
* /en/fr/word/dog-12345 would be the EN URL for the french word "chien" with unique id 12345 <br />
<br />
<br />
The current "Browsing the sound library" is extremely user-unfriendly. It is really only a "track down the zip which you then have to download and unzip" feature. The "Browsing the sound library" page https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/Help:Sound_library which then takes you to https://lingualibre.fr/wiki/LinguaLibre:Records which then spends forever loading is a complete turn-off to all but the most dedicated visitors.<br />
<br />
Some may say that the content will be used by other sites (such as Wiktionary or Wikidata), so it is not necessary, but Lingua Libre will only be able to do a good job of feeding these other sites if it does a good job itself of being a fantastic browsing tool for the source recordings.<br />
<br />
In future, it would be great if all power users could use an API to go directly to a particular page and get the recording(s), e.g. /lingua-libre/fr/chien would give me the recording of that particular word in that particular language.<br />
<br />
=== Examples from other sites ===<br />
==== Shtooka ====<br />
Shtooka used to be like this, that you could simply browse to the page for a particular recording. This was great. Lingua Libre has lost a lot of this simplicity, and so has taken a large step backwards in terms of easily attracting people to the concept.<br />
<br />
==== Lingopolo ====<br />
My own site https://lingopolo.org/, has one word per language per page, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/thai/word/dog https://lingopolo.org/french/word/dog although I think in some ways it makes more sense to use the word in the language on the URL. Notice too how I have a page per audio author, e.g. https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio/J.vdleeNL and a page listing all audio authors (per language) https://lingopolo.org/dutch/audio<br />
<br />
==== Forvo ====<br />
https://forvo.com/ gives a good example of one way this can be organised, but also of just how much people go mad to help. The https://forvo.com/languages/ gives an excellent overview of what languages are well supported. Each language has it's own home page, e.g. https://forvo.com/languages/nl/ for Dutch where you see a link stating the number of pronounced words. https://forvo.com/languages-pronunciations/nl/ shows you all the pronunciations, by word. Any individual word has its own page like https://forvo.com/word/jongen/ Forvo though thinks of the pronunciation of a word first, and then language second, for example "main" means very different things in English and French, but Forvo puts them both on the same page https://forvo.com/word/main/ even though separated by language. I would not propose Lingua Libre to go that far, but rather link to words spelt the same in other languages, so the Ligua Libre pages would be "English" -> "main" with a link to the "French" -> "main" page.<br />
<br />
==== Pixabay ====<br />
https://pixabay.com/ is not a recording site at all, but it has a very well thought-out structure for its URLs. Each image has its own page, but the interesting thing is that each image page can be accessed in different languages. For example, the EN image https://pixabay.com/photos/pug-puppy-dog-animal-cute-690566/ also has an FR URL https://pixabay.com/fr/photos/pug-chiot-chien-des-animaux-mignon-690566/ and an NL version https://pixabay.com/nl/photos/pug-puppy-hond-dierlijke-cute-690566/ etc. -- Rugops<br />
<br />
:Hi [[User:Rugops|Rugops]]. Thank you for this very interesting feedback. For sure, Lingua Libre needs to be improved to become more "user-friendly". Browsing audio recording may be one way to do it. Find a way to propose list of words to record more easily would be another. I open a [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252319 a Phabricator ticket] to think more about your ideas. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Rugops|Agree]]. More could be done for browzability and maintenance (verify audio, request re-recording to speakers), etc.<br />
::It should also be noted that LinguaLibre is the DIRECT CHILD of Shtooka. Nicolas Vion who created Shtooka and myself who was PhD student at INALCO and volunteer at Wikimedia looked for way to move Shtooka from a C++ desktop based recorder toward an online HTML5-based recording apps. We then connected to Wikimedia, Lyokoi, Remy Gerbet so Nicolas was hired as freelance by Wikimédia France and got a month or two dedicated to create LinguaLibre v1.0 which was PHP-based.<br />
::One core issue is that 2000s' Nicolas moved from being a young and passionate developer in his 20s to new life priorities and developments, aka the classical open source project's evolution and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life Benevolent dictator]'s drifting away for new adventures and transmitting the project to a new generation. Software development is since mainly done by sprints, via a talented developer as well, but integrating the project into the Wikimedia and MediaWiki galaxy has naturally absorbed a lot of dev energy (second issue). Overall, all strength of Shtooka haven't been moved to LinguaLibre, while LinguaLibre also has strengths that Shtooka never had.<br />
::As of today (May 29), a new UI have been unrolled showing Wikimedia France will to improve the project. But more should be done in term of sound-specific UX and features. Feature requests must be collected here or better on phabricator, and WM France must be notified of the users' requests :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: [[User:Languageseeker|Agree]] I think its important to also manage alternative spellings and accents. This is an issue that Forvo is currently failing to manage and taking up considerable times for editors. Right now, Lingua Libre uses geographic region as a crude stand in for accent, but I think it's important to explicitly state the accent. I also think that we need a discussion of whether or not to include (in)definite articles. Lastly, we should also think about how to make the files easily scrapable so that they can be batch imported into a program such as Anki. We should also do more to delete poorly pronounced or recorded pronunciations. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 17:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined ==<br />
<br />
Bonjour, tout le monde.<br />
<br />
Quand j’essaye de sélectionner des mots à enregistrer à partir d’une catégorie du Wiktionnaire français en excluant les termes déjà enregistrés, je reçois une erreur ''TypeError: this.pastRecords is undefined''. Décocher l’option éliminant les termes déjà enregistrés résout le problème, mais je n’ai pas vraiment envie de réenregistrer des mots déjà traités. Ça sent le bug ; quelqu’un pourrait corriger ?<br />
<br />
[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 08:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Bonjour,<br />
:Je vais regarder ça, mais pas sur d'avoir le temps de corriger ça rapidement car je prépare le déploiement de la nouvelle grosse version de Lingua Libre et du RecordWizard actuellement (je pense début de semaine prochaine environ). En attendant celle-ci (qui n'a pas ce bug), tu peux désélectionner l'option dans le générateur, et retirer les mots une fois dans la liste principale en cliquant sur le bouton ''Retirer les mots déjà enregistré''.<br />
:Désolé pour le problème :/.<br />
:Cordialement — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 12:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ben, je viens de retenter, et ça marche, même sans utiliser ton contournement. Tant mieux. Merci du tuyau, en tout cas, et bon courage !<br />
::[[User:LoquaxFR|LoquaxFR]] ([[User talk:LoquaxFR|talk]]) 13:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikidata ==<br />
<br />
Hello, step by step we are spreading Lingua Libre among the community in Wikimedia Spain and two questions have arisen; on the one hand, would it be possible for a bot to automatically add the audios from Wikidata to the different Wiktionaries? On the other hand, can different accents from the same language be added to the audio statement in Wikidata?. Thanks. [[User:Rodelar|Rodelar]] ([[User talk:Rodelar|talk]]) 12:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
: Hello Rodelar, thanks for adding Spanish pronunciations. <br />
: About Wikidata, I added your request on [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T224312 this Phabricator ticket] in order to remember it. <br />
: To add audio pronunctions to the Wiktionary pages, there are at least two options<br />
:# the current method is to write a bot that add them. We code is available [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot here]. Lingua Libre Bot is already running for fr and oc Wiktionaries. You can have a look to the code about [https://github.com/lingua-libre/Lingua-Libre-Bot/blob/master/wikis/ocwiktionary.py oc Wiktionary] and try to adapt it for eswiktionary. If so, you can send a pull request to be added in the Lingua Libre Bot code. Then, the bot will add the new audio pronunciations (in any language) on the Spanish Wiktionary. It has to be done one by one by for each Wiktionary because the page structure is different from one Wiktionary version to another. And here comes the second "solution".<br />
:# the other method is to get the pronunciation data (and other data) directly from Wikidata and to display them in the Spanish Wiktionary. Wikipedia already does that (with the infobox for example). This requires that the access to the lexicographical data be enabled. The [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T212843 T212843 ticket] follows progress on that but it is currently not yet possible to access them.<br />
: Cheers [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== speedy et / ou delete ==<br />
Bonjour,<br /><br />
Il peut arriver qu'un Élément Qs ne sert plus (enregistrement impropre, page WM différente, titrage incorrect, etc). On peut l'effacer de Commons, mais il subsiste ici. Pour commencer, je propose la création d'une page dédiée à la suppression, avec un/des template/s speedy et/ou delete.<br /><br />
Une de mes créations ne me convenait pas, alors j'ai effacé le fichier sur Commons pour le remplacer par un autre avec mes propres outils pour remettre tout en ordre sur LL. Bref le temps de la nouvelle création, Q309179 avait disparu. Pour speedy et delete, qu'en dites-vous ? Des commentaires ? —[[User:Eihel|Eihel]] ([[User talk:Eihel|talk]]) 17:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC) <small>ps. J'ai déjà ajouté un template. Voir [[LinguaLibre:Administrators' noticeboard]]</small><br />
:Salut Eihel, oui pourquoi pas. À noter cependant que si une prononciation est incorrecte, réenregistrer le mot uploadera la nouvelle prononciation sur Commons à la place de l'ancien enregistrement. Par ailleurs vu que les noms des fichiers sont générés automatiquement par Lingua Libre, les cas à traiter devraient être relativement rares. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
::De manière générale nous avons un point faible dans la gestion dynamique des audios : consultation agreable, renommage, suppression, etc. C'est mentionné (consultation agréable) plus haut dans la comparaison avec Shtooka. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2020.05.29 - new LinguaLibre UI and UX ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let's create below a list of points to review and improve. The discussion must be centered around finding pratical, rapid solution to the issues found :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:20, 30 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
===CSS===<br />
* {{Done}} CSS could be improve. As admin, where could we edit it or suggest modifications ? (ex: <code>h2 { margin-top: 1em; }</code>)<br />
*: I guess we should edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to modify that. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::The best would to make a pull request on [https://github.com/lingua-libre/BlueLL the skin's git repository]. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Recording icon : the previous version had reddish micro-phone icon to enlighten the "Record Wizard" button. I guess the icon was willfully dropped.<br />
*: Which icon are you talking about? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::[[MediaWiki:Common.css]] now contains guideline on how to submit new CSS to Lingua Libre. Thanks [[user:Pamputt|Pamputt]] & [[User:0x010C|0x]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::[[File:Breezeicons-status-22-mic-red-LinguaLibre.svg|32px]] <- this icon, which we [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&oldid=83430 previously CSS integrated]. The bright red was chosen on purpose to attract the visitor eyes to the recording button. Also, the new skin is white/blue centered. All these must be balanced. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 10:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::{{ping|Yug}} This icon was purposely removed by the UI/UX specialist who created the new mockups. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 11:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
===Content===<br />
* {{done}} [[LinguaLibre:Stats#Number_of_records_per_languages]] ([https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=LinguaLibre:Stats&action=edit&section=3 edit SPARQL query])- the table is not-human readable. English name or ISO639-3 codes are needed. LL's languages items locally just have English name & wikidata id... editing the query so it display English name and/or query from wikidata the iso639-3 code would be appreciated.<br />
*: Full language names have been dropped since the database has grown too much for the request to respond without a timeout. This may be restored once the work on either the SPARQL endpoint performance or the QueryViz caching feature has been done. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Baleswari Odia (dialect of Odia language) and Odia===<br />
[[File:Requested features for Lingua Libre.jpg|thumb|400px|Some requested features for Lingua Libre including an option for changing the default naming option and custom metadata (particular multilingual descriptions in wiki-code). (''details below'')]]<br />
Just recorded over 300 words in the Baleswari dialect of the Odia language. The new UI is certainly better, more effective and faster than the last one. <br />
====a. Multiple recordings of the same word====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
However, the "remove words already recorded" feature does not detect words recorded by the same user on a different date. So, a newer version of the same recording gets updated on Commons. This is not useful. Ideally:<br><br />
One should be able to upload multiple recordings of the same word. While uploading, they should be able to see the duplicates, and have an option to remove some/all the duplicates from the new list. If a user decides to re-record an existing word, new files should be created ''instead of uploading a new version of an existing file as it is happening now'') e.g. if the old file was "OLDNAME.wav", the new file should be "OLDNAME_01.wav". If both "OLDNAME.wav" and "OLDNAME_01.wav" exist, then the third recording should be "OLDNAME_02.wav".<br />
*: Thanks for your recordings [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]].<br />
*:: About the first point (removal af duplicate), I will check and open a Phrabicator ticket if I can reproduce because this is definitely a regression compared to the previous version of the website.<br />
*::: Thanks, please do add "psubhashish1" to the subscriber list when you create the ticket. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: [[User:Psubhashish|Psubhashish]], I just tested and if I click on "remove all the duplicates" at the "recording list" step, the words that I added and I have already recorded are removed. Could you try again? If it does not work for you, can you open a Phabricator ticket and describe exactly what you do in order to be able to reproduce? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::: It is working for recordings made from a particular list on LinguaLibre. But, when I try to record the pronunciation of a word that I myself had recorded earlier, it doesn't flag that a duplicate exists on Commons. Ideally, it should let me know that a recording that I myself made already exists so that I can decide if I want to record or not. If I decide to rerecord, it should go as a new recording with a suffix "_01.FILENAME". --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::Currently it is working this way. When you create (or load) a list of words to record, there is always a button saying you can remove from the list all the words you have already recorded. Lingua Libre does not say you directly that there are words you have already recorded in the list (I think because user experience is better this way (less messages)). To have different recording is only possible now if you add information in brackets after the word you want to save (example: "cat (some information)"). That's said, I do not really see what use case would need such feature. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} Regarding the deduplication feature, it is working fine on my side. If it's not working on your side, it may be related to the Odia script, which in unicode can have several code points for the same symbol, which do some mess when we do comparaisons. This issue will need to be investigated further. Could you provide one or two examples of transcriptions with witch the deduplicate feature doesn't work for you?<br />
*::::::Regarding your second point, this will not be done, as we don't want to create duplicate files on Commons. If a record has the exact same metadata, it should replace the previous one. If you want to record another speaker, create a new speaker profile for him (step 2 of the Record Wizard). If you want to record in a different dialect/language, add this new language/dialect on your speaker profile (on step 2) and select it for your records (on step 3), see also my answer in section D below. If you want to record some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics) heteronym], you can add a textual qualifier between bracets at the end of the transcription of that word, example: "desert (arid region)" and "desert (leave)".<br />
*::::::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::: I feel that for heteronym's it would be better to have the textual qualifier as a separate metadata item. Otherwise, it might get difficult to find them. It's also easier to ensure accurate formatting if it's done automatically that if user's do it manually. Currently, Forvo has a big problem where there is no standard way to distinguish heteronym's leading to quite a bit of difficulty in finding them. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==== b. Custom-categorization:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There is no option for a user to decide about the categories. I might want to add a custom category (say a category for each date) for a particular batch.<br />
*:: About categories, you would like to be able to create your own categories on Wikimedia Commons. For example, instead of automatic categorisation in [[c:Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish|Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish]], you would like to be able to set a custom name for a category. This category would be categorized in Category:Lingua Libre pronunciation by Psubhashish, which means all custom categories would be subcategories of the main categories created automatically by Lingua Libre. Do you agree? If so, I think it looks like what is asked in [[phab:T201135|T201135]].<br />
*::: Pardon for repeating the question. I see a discussion from 2018 but it doesn't tell me how to add a custom category for a batch. Can you probably explain here or, much better, add to the help page? --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 13:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::This feature does not exist yet. The Phabricator ticket is just there to remind that this feature is frequently asked and should be considered by developers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:::::{{ping|Psubhashish}} This is indeed an interesting feature, I will prioritize it for the next update. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:07, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::::::{{Ping|Pamputt|Psubhashish}} a way to go would be to have a bot which use [[:mw:API:Edit]] on the list of audio files. Basic js skills is enough to go forward, and LinguaLibre will sooner or later need such bot for maintaining Commons pages. Just... let's keep it it mind. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC) (PS: I'am learning about Commons bot at the moment, come back to me if needed. Do we have other bot master here ?)<br />
<br />
====c. Custom metadata parameters:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
There should be at least one additional parameter for the metdata (description, etc. that appear on Commons) so that the user can add some additional information. I personally speak in multiple accents and I'd like to denote the accent used for each batch separately. Having this option would be of great help. It is not practical to edit hundreds of files manually to make such changes once uploaded on Commons. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish Panigrahi]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*:: Metadata: this is an interesting idea. You would like to have something like « free text » that would be a parameter attached to one speaker (you can define several speakers for yourself, one for each accent). A Phabricator ticket should be opened to track this idea.<br />
*: [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 11:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*:: I have added this to Phrabricator ([[phab:T254241|T254241]]). --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]]) 06:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
*::: See the image above for an example how I'd personally like to use a bilingual wikicode-based description as opposed to the current one. The latter is not very helpful for someone who is viewing a standalone file. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
<br />
====d. Standardized naming:====<br />
:{{done}} (part of a group of 4 sections)<br />
Currently, Lingua Libre follows a naming which prefixes a long text whereas audio recordings of pronunciations are generally named on Commons in "<code>LANGUAGECODE-DIALECT OR VARIATION CODE-WORD</code>" format e.g. if the word "''color''" needs to be recorded in an American accent, an ideal way of naming it would be "File:En-us-color.wav" whereas "en" stands for English, and "us" for American. In the picture uploaded above, I have used a similar format ("ori" being the language code for "Odia" and "nor" being the code for the Northern Balasore (or Baleswari Odia) dialect). I understand that Lingua Libre follows a different format. But can a user opt (or modify in a batch) the naming that they prefer? Better, can Lingua Libre suggest a standardized naming for users so that the recordings on Commons have a much more standardized naming? The naming that I've suggested is something I learned from others on Commons but they make sense from a linguistics standpoint. It's simple, short and does the job. I had to use another code and spend hours to rename only a few hundred files whereas having an option to change in the first place while uploading could have been much easier. --[[User:Psubhashish|Subhashish]] ([[User talk:Psubhashish|talk]])<br />
:It has been decided not to get only the language and the place where the locutors have learnt their language. If I understood well, it is more relevant from a linguist point of view because most of the people are not aware that they speak a specific variety of their language. For example, we could use en-us but why it is more relevant than en-us-Texas or en-us-Florida where the accents are probably different. Maybe [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] or [[User:Noé|Noé]] could say more about this point. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hi {{ping|Psubhashish}}<br />
::We perfectly know this naming convention that exists on Commons, and it's true that it's shortness is an advantage. But we purpously decided not to use it. We've immagined our naming convention so that our filenames can be as precise and unique as possible: a file corresponds to a transcription recorded in a specific language/dialect by a specific person.<br />
::* The other naming convention doesn't allow 2 person to record the same word in the same language, without starting using ''tricks'' like appending 2, 3, 4,... ; that's why we include the name of the speaker in the title.<br />
::* Language codes used on Commons are a bit random sometimes especialy if we look at minor languages, which often have not those standardized code. But as Lingua Libre aims to be able to record all languages, common or minor, we prefered using Wikidata Qids for every languages; it may be less plesant to read but it fits every known languages/dialects. To follow Pamputt's example, we have a standardize code for Texan english, which is [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7707309 Q7707309] ;).<br />
::By applying those rules for each records, we are sure to be able to have a <u>consistent</u> naming convention, for all languages and dialects, supporting records of same words by multiple speakers, and that's why we can <u>safely</u> override files if the same speaker record the same word in the same language.<br />
::(for your case of two dialects, you won't get any problem if you want to record the same words one time in ''standard''(?) Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q33810 Q33810] = LL:[[Q336]]) and another time in Baleswari Odia (WD:[https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4850727 Q4850727] = LL:[[Q322719]]), as long as you select the right language/dialect before the recording process.)<br />
::The real issue is that we have imported on Lingua Libre only a subset of all available languages/dialects on Wikidata (as it's growing fast), and we have to manually import missing ones from time to time :/<br />
::Best regards — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 23:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==='''Discussion'''===<br />
Hi Yug, I guess it should be better to open tickets on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]] to keep track of all theses issues and be able to discuss each one more easiyl (structured way). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 12:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks Pamputt :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::+1 to pamputt, phabricator is more appropriate for that for advanced users. — [[User:0x010C|'''0'''x'''010<span style="color: #00C41C;">C</span>''']] <sup>[[User_talk:0x010C|~talk~]]</sup> 14:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bugs ==<br />
=== Enregistrements accélérés ===<br />
Bonjour,<br />
Mes enregistrements du jour ont été accélérés. Heureusement, je me suis vite rendu compte. Quelques exemples : [[Q332977]] [[Q332978]] [[Q332979]] [[Q332980]] [[Q332981]] [[Q332982]]. <br />
<br />
PS : Le lien "Commencer une nouvelle discussion" ci-dessus n'a pas l'air de fonctionner.<br />
<br />
[[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 08:36, 28 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Salut [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]], problème étrange. J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T256663|ticket sur Phabricator]] à ce sujet. J'en ai également ouvert [[phab:T256665|un autre]] à propos de lien « commencer une nouvelle discussion » car je n'ai pas trouvé comment le corriger moi-même. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|DSwissK|Pamputt}} I got the same feedbacks of speeded up audios from [[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] for Cantonese, today. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::[https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&dir=prev&offset=20200709043912&limit=500&target=Luilui6666 Contributions] > Example (corrupted): [https://lingualibre.org/wiki/Q338365 Q338365] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Should we review and remove all the bad audios, so it become easier to re-record ? And where should we remove them, here or on Commons ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} We can list such items [[LinguaLibre:Misleading_items|here]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== ratelimited ===<br />
:{{done}} ''See [[LinguaLibre:User rights]], [[phab:T260649|T260649]], [[phab:T245214|T245214]], [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]], [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. Test your ratelimit : [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=userinfo&uiprop=ratelimits here].''<br />
[[User:Luilui6666|Luilui6666]] also got about 1/4 of her audios not uploading, this for past 3 months. She either have to wait and retry or to give up. The last event, on July 10th, returned an error mentioning <br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|<br />
<nowiki>[RequestQueue]</nowiki> Reject ratelimited<br />
Object:<br />
*: "See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API usage. Suscrib..."<br />
code:"ratelimited"<br />
info:"You've exceeded your rate limit. Please wait some times and tray again...<br />
|}<br />
I can't say more. Did any of you encountered such event ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:I do not know either. You should open a [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 07:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Luilui6666}} {{ping|Yug}} {{ping|Pamputt}} This error could be due to your user rights on Wikimedia Commons. Without the "autopatrolled" rights, you are not able to upload more than ~400 files/hour. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 23:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Indeed, this is a possible explanation. I opened [[phab:T260649|T260649]] to keep track. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:23, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|0x010C}} the classic 1 hour recording sprint generate 800 records. It is frequent to do a 2hours, 1500+ recording sprint per day. Also, we must take note that 0x010C won't be able to save us from now on. Do we have an identified fall back ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Pamputt}} I searched in the following without success:<br />
:* [[:Commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed_users|Commons:Autoconfirmed_users]] -- account must be 4 days old to perform <code>reupload</code> over existing files<br />
:* [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:User rights|mw:Manual:User rights]]<br />
:* [[:Commons:Special:ListGroupRights]]<br />
:I didn't find anything relevant to upload amount. Luilui6666 limitation happened more than 4 days after her account creation. I'am not sure what went on. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt|}} Found it in [[:Commons:Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits|Commons:Guide_to_batch_uploading#Rate_limits]] !<br />
::{| class="wikitable"<br />
| <br />
;Rate limits<br />
Normal users on Commons are [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits|rate limited]] to 380 uploads per 72 minutes. Users granted <code>image-reviewer</code>, <code>patroller</code>, or <code>autopatrolled</code> status have a <code>ratelimit</code> of 999 uploads per 1 second. Users can apply for these user rights at [[:commons:COM:RFR|COM:RFR]].<br />
|}<br />
::It mentions [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgRateLimits]]. This ''"380 uploads"'' match the ''"around 400 uploads"'' described by [[User:Luilui6666]]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:37, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Accès impossible au Wizard dans l'interface en occitan ===<br />
<br />
Bonjour,<br />
J'ai toujours un problème pour enregister quand l'interface est en occitan. Je dois faire un atelier public cet été et je suis obligée de passer en français. <br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en haut de la page, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/includes/cache/MessageCache.php on line 812<br />
* Si je clique sur le bouton d'enregistrement en bas de la page d'accueil, j'ai l'erreur suivante :<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 198<br />
[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
:J'ai ajouté les nouveaux messages d'erreur au [[phab:T210477|ticket Phabricator]] qui parle des problèmes avec la version en occitan. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, is this bug confirmed and reoccuring ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Guilhelma}}, est-ce que ce bug est confirmé et continue de vous géner ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
Yes, the bug is confirmed<br />
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/www/lingualibre.org/languages/Language.php on line 4422[[User:Guilhelma|Guilhelma]]<br />
<br />
=== Ajouter la langue Mozabite ===<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Bonjour, ma langue mere est le Mozabite (mzb) Q36149 (wikidata). <br />
je peux pas contribuer en cet langue. pouvez vous l'ajouter s'il vous plais. --[[User:Arha06|Arha06]] ([[User talk:Arha06|talk]]) 19:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Arha06}} bonjour et merci pour vos enregistrements sur Lingua Libre. Je viens d'ajouter le [[Q339099|mozabite]] sur Lingua Libre. Il est donc possible d'enregistrer des mots dans cette langue dès à présent. Bonnes contributions. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Adding list from Wikidata ===<br />
Hello. It seems the interface has changed since i last used it and i cannot see how to create a word list from a Wikidata query. Could someone tell me the best way of doing this? thanks [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]] ([[User talk:Jason.nlw|talk]]) 08:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Jason.nlw|Jason.nlw]], as far as I remember it has never been possible to generate such list but I may be wrong. I opened a [[phab:T260650|feature request]] on Phabricator. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The only workaround is now: run a query--> download the label list as csv-->copy the column-->create a local list on LiLi. This won't remember and link the Wikdiata items though, and the bot won't work either. You can only record the words. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding list into RecordWizard ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello. The Record Wizard offers the Local List, Nearby and Wikimedia category buttons as ways to generate a list of words to record. The alternative seems to be typing words, one by one, in the "Type here the word to record". I have my own list in a file, but when I paste it in that field, it thinks it's 1 word instead of many. Is there a way I can provide my own list without having to type the words one by one? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 22:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Hi [[User:Julien Baley|Julien]], it is possible to create local list as much as you want/need. So to create your own, you can paste the content of your file into [[List:Fra/Julien Baley]] (for example); each word is separated by #. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks a lot! Is there any naming convention, or can I create whatever I want? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 19:19, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::No, so far there is no naming convention. Yet, if you want your list be record by other user, you should use a self-supporting name. You can see some examples [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?search=List%3Afra%2F*&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns142=1 here]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} please browse [[Help:Main]] ;) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Datasets out of date ==<br />
Hello. It seems that the datasets page, although it claims to run every 2 days, is completely out of date: all the available zips are from April 2020 or November 2019 (and the full zip from May 2019). Is this a known problem? Is there a plan to address it? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 23:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Indeed, it seems to have an issue with the dataset updating. I opened a [[phab:T261519|Phabricator ticket]] about this issue. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 18:24, 28 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How much to record at once? ==<br />
:{{done}} <br />
Hello! I have a little question regarding risk management; when I record words, where is the data stored before it's uploaded? What happens if my Internet connection dies out? Can I refresh the page, or am I losing all the non-uploaded recordings? What are your suggestions in that respect? [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 09:32, 2 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Julien Baley}} I am not sure (to be tested) but I would say that the recordings are stored on the server as long as your browser is not closed. So if your internet connection dies out but you do not change the web page, you may be able to send to server the words from the last you recorded as soon as your internet connection is restored. Maybe it is even possible to continue to record if recordings are stored locally on your computer before to be sent to the server. Yet, as I said, it should be tested. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 22:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}} The audio are first stored locally, within your browser's tab memory. In case of staled upload, KEEP THIS TAB OPEN, reclick "Upload" (or "Retry Upload" ?) few hours later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 07:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::For new accounts, there may be some limit in the number of daily uploads. We suspect something around 400 uploads. If so, keep the computer and browser tab open, stay on that page, and retry upload later. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 11:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:*Greetings, what does "new account" mean? How many days, how many edits? This would be good to document these. Good wishes, --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC) +the stat details you have given above about Commons upload rate, are helpful, regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Hello ! As you noticed in the other section I confirmed that "new users" (according to Wikimedia Commons) are limited to 380 upload per 72 minutes.<br />
::Checking on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=0x010C%7CYug%7CWikiLucas00%7CLuilui6666%7CShufaBot%7CJulien_Baley%7CTitodutta&usprop=groups%7Ceditcount%7Cregistration this Commons API], I can see that [[User:Titodutta]] has lot of higher-rights groups providing a ratelimit of 999 uploads / sec, while [[user:Julien Baley]] is still a new user within initial groups <code>[ "*", "user", "autoconfirmed" ]</code> which provide a maximum of 380 uploads per 72 minutes. See [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#User_rights_on_Commons]].<br />
::{{ping|Julien Baley}}, you previously recorded 60 audio files. If your recorded files above 380 are not uploading... keep the browser tab open, then after one and half hour, click again to upload. You may also request higher rights on Commons, in line with [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Requests_for_rights&oldid=467003025#User:Luilui6666_(LinguaLibre_project) this request]. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:19, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug}} Oh, it may not show on my account, because I'm recruiting people to record words in other languages, and I'd like them not to encounter any problem with the uploading. I usually have a list of several hundreds of words ready, but I can aim to keep it under 380 to avoid any issue. [[User:Julien Baley|Julien Baley]] ([[User talk:Julien Baley|talk]]) 11:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::{{ping|Julien Baley}} I think the uploader is your account [[user:Julien Baley]], and the speaker doesn't necessary have an account nor on LinguaLibre or Commons. He just need to be ''defined'' in LinguaLibre.<br />
::::If your speaker creates its own account and work independently, your could follow [[LinguaLibre:User_rights#Request_new_user_rights]] so to request user rights on Commons for that account. It has proven to be granted quickly, see the Luilui6666's request I made for this user. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pages translation ==<br />
I would like to be able to mark pages for translation, but I don't have the user rights (pagetranslation) to do so. This rights are restricted to sysops (see [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). Should we create a translation administrator user group? Are there plans for creating a page like [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights|this]] in the future? — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 03:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|WikiLucas00}} indeed, currently there are not a lot of different user rights available here (bot, admin, bureaucrat). If you think we should have more, please feel free to open a ticket asking for that on [[phab:project/view/3393/|Phabricator]]. About, [[LinguaLibre:Requests for rights]], the same, feel free to create and initialize this page :D [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 17:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} I created [[phab:T262855|a task on Phabricator]]. Let's first see how it evolves before creating a Request page. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 19:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* Greetings, not sure specifically about this right, but most of the rights are managed at Localsettings.php ([[:mw:Manual:User rights]]). Good wishes. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== New admins ? ====<br />
''See also [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]''<br />
<br />
{{ping|Pamputt|WikiLucas00|Titodutta|Lyokoï}} I think it would be nice to make WikiLucas an admin. We are a micro-wiki, WikiLucas has proven to be active and knowledgeable, all lights are green to make him a sysop. I would also encourage to have one or two Indian admins. Indian users are the second largest community here, they bring new insights to the projects, let's empower them properly. Any idea who among this later community would need the admin tools ? (page translate, page deletion, language import) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Checking over [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]] I also notice :<br />
* Bureaucrats: 0x010C is taking a year off; Xenophon is a WMfr staff with bureacrat right for security reasons but barely active here; GrandCelinien... I barely crossed him; it leaves Pamputt as the single active bureaucrat. [[:en:Bus factor|Not enough]]. We need at least 3 '''active''' bureaucrats. I propose to promote Lyokoï to bureacrat if he is ok. He is a regular contributor and solid bet. We also will need someone on the Indian/Asian side soon. Bureacrats mainly can gives users more rights, such as admin status. It's not much but when we need it we need it, and relying on one single Bureaucrat is no a good practice.<br />
*: I’m OK to be a bureaucrat. If you want it, I see no problem. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* Admins: WikiLucas is an obvious candidate, he bumped into limitations (page translation right above). I see about 3 Indian contributors quite engaged here, could we promote one ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 05:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I am clearly not opposed to have more bureaucrat or admin, neither to have some Indian contributors among them. That being said, I don't think we're in a hurry (the Lingua Libre community is not very active at the moment). I prefer to take some time to give the rights to people involved in Lingua Libre, so that we can be sure that they will use their rights for at least a few months. Yet, if someone requests admin or bureaucrat right, just ask (there is no bureaucratic procedure yet here). [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 06:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Yug|Pamputt|Lyokoï|Titodutta}} I agree with Yug, I would be more valuable to the project as an admin. As Pamputt has pointed out, the project is not very active for the moment, but in the light of future events -- for instance the training course I will be giving this month with Emma Vadillo to the alumni of the ''INaLCO'' in Paris <small>(being able to quickly delete the potential mistakes of the learners would be worthy)</small>, or the possible nomination of the project to the [[m:Coolest_Tool_Award|Coolest Tool Awards]]), its outreach will grow, so will the community. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 17:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Pamputt}} per the request just above let's '''grant WikiLucas00 adminship''', he is one of the most active here anyway, and admin is just an active user with a toolbox to add languages, block users, add translatable pages.<br />
:As '''for my general argument''', I consider that being a small wiki and with most admins/bureaucrats rarely passing by or via occasional sprints (my case), we therefor need a high ratio of admins/bureaucrates so there is always one around and checking upon the [[Special:RecentChanges]].<br />
:Last, '''as for Bureaucrats''', we are failing the [[:en:Bus factor|Bus factor/Bus test]] : it's a organizational risk we should not fail, ever. I recommend adding one Bureaucrat for sure. Keeping Xenophon as far away backup. I would also recommend to keep the door open for one more, preferably from the East-Asian community (different timezone, human network, strategic opportunity, etc.).<br />
:We also need to '''recruit an admin on Commons''' able to do mass delete when we provide a list of files. Do we have this already ? {{ping|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I granted [[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas00]] as admin. For Commons, it would be indeed interested to have such profile. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Yug|Pamputt}} Thank you for your trust. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Ok for me to give admin statut to WikiLucas. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 16:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userrights==<br />
:{{done}}<br />
:::<s>On '''user rights''', I think it would be good to change a bunch of them on LinguaLibre. LinguaLibre is not a central Wikimedia project, better to have lower "gates".</s> (We depend on Commons)<br />
:::{{ping|Titodutta}} As I understand it we '''dependent upon Commons for upload rights.''' Each mediawiki as build in <code>groups</code> such as <code>users</code>, <code>autopatrolled</code>, <code>admin</code>, etc, which have specific user rights allowing actions and ratelimits defining the number of this action allowed within a time period. So far, I found:<br />
:::* <code>user</code> group's upload right: <code>"user": { "hits": 380, "seconds": 4320 }</code> (72 mins)<br />
:::* <code>autopatrolled</code> group's upload righ: <code>"autopatrolled": { "hits": 32, "seconds": 60 }</code><br />
:::Most LinguaLibre contributions are done via confirmed Wikimedian account, likely to be part of the <code>autopatrolled</code> group on commons, so we rarely run into any upload limit. We run into it when whe have a non-wikimedia, who suddenly rush into LinguaLibre, like did Luilui6666 : 5000 upload within one month <small>(I made a student-rate donation in exchange for this dedicated work, worth it!).</small><br />
:::Can we tell Commons API's ''"Hey, this user account is ok, please grant it <userright>"'' or should we specifically ask for userights there via [[:Commons:Commons:Requests_for_rights|Commons:Requests_for_rights]] and a mentor-based application. By example, I would ask there for User:Luilui6666 to get <code>Autopatrolled users</code> so her upload ratelimit move from 380 per 72mins (group <code>users</code>) to 999/sec. Some digging in this direction would be welcome, so I just created: <br />
:::* '''[[LinguaLibre:User rights]]''', a new page to expand according to our emerging knowledge on both user rights and <code>ratelimit</code>. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::* For upload we need to depend on Wikimedia Common's rate and rules, and I believe that's for good. I agree with you that we'll very rarely face this problem for 2 reasons: a) most of us have rights on Wikimedia Commons, b) 380 per 72mins is also too high. Anyway, the only solution I can think of, if an editor is uploading too many words per hour, and uploaded around 500–1,000 files on Commons, try the "autopatrolled" right on Wikimedia Commons. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 18:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== L’importateur de langue ne fonctionne plus ? ==<br />
:{{done}} -- it works, issue closed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
Bonjour j’essaie d’importer la langue dagbani (Q32238 sur WD) après [https://twitter.com/dagbaniwiki/status/1306912106776858624 une demande sur Twitter], mais l’outil d’import ne fonctionne pas, y’a-t’il un moyen de le corriger ou de le contourner ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Avec les audios accélérés, il semblerait qu'on ait quelques bugs trés génants. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:05, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::J'ai ouvert un [[phab:T263477|ticket sur Phabricator]]. Peut-être que créer manuellement l'élément permet de contourner le problème. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Il faut faire comment manuellement ? [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::: {{ping|Lyokoï}} en passant par [[Special:NewItem]], tu peux créer un nouvel élément pour ta langue. Ensuite il faut ajouter les propriétés (tu peux t'inspirer de [[Q21]]). Mais pas sûr que ça soit automatiquement reconnu par le système. Ca ne coute pas grand chose d'essayer donc on sera vite fixé. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 01:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::: {{ping|Pamputt}} Merci Je vais essayer ! [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 18:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Lyokoï}} je viens de faire le test avec le bankon [[Q386221]]. Et ça a l'air de fonctionner. Plus de détail [[Help:Add_a_new_language/fr#Créer_une_nouvelle_langue_manuellement|ici]] sur la manière de faire bien que toutes les images aient disparu. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{ping|Pamputt}} C’est bon, j’ai testé aussi. [[User:Lyokoï|Lyokoï]] ([[User talk:Lyokoï|talk]]) 14:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|Lyokoï|Pamputt}} I tested with Western Kurd (Kurmanji), via administrator language import tool in the Top-right Action tab : it worked. Chrome + Ubuntu 20.04. I think we can close this bug and just keep an eyes on it. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::Indeed, it works here as well. I really do not understand what happened because no one touched the code of [[MediaWiki:Gadget-LinguaImporter.js]] last days ... So OK to close the bug report. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::Maybe [[User:Pamputt|you]] imported an existing language ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 19:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, for sure not. Few weeks ago, the gadget did not allow to enter anything in the field where you type the Wikidata QID. So, no explanation so far but not a big deal. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:54, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 0x010C year offgrid : preparations ==<br />
Hello folks, [[User:0x010C|0x010C]] anounced by email his soon to be departure from the project for a year+ off grid (he will tell more here if he wish to ;) ). We can't fully replace our [[:en:Benevolent_dictator_for_life#;)|benevolent lead developer]]. But could we brainstorm to see where he was active, and how to best fill the gap ? I'am kick starting this table but I have a biais since I don't know every task 0x010C was taking on nor do I know all active users on the project and your full skillsets. Please help us to fill in the gaps. 0x010C will be available between '''Oct. 15th and October 30th to pass some know how''' to who wish to. Let's prepare our questions properly for this transition. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Critical || Task / Aspect || Requirement ? || Who else knows ?<br>Who wish to learn ?|| Satisfy<br>requirements (%)<br />
|-style="background:#FFAA0066;border-color:#FFAA0099"<br />
| high || Server maintenance || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to WMFr server (see WMFr sysop).<br>3. Knows how to maintain/restarts scripts and processes.<br>4. Knows how to restart NGINX server || NEEDS SOMEONE || 0% so far<br />
|-<br />
| high || Edit recording wizard JS library || 1. Has advanced javascript know how.<br>2. Knows where js code is {link to js repository}<br>3. Edit and test js code locally .<br>4. Has access rights to push. || None or Nicolas Vion ? || 0% or 60%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Deploying fix into production || 1. Has back-end sysop knowledge<br>2. Has access rights to server. <br>3. Has access rights to pull corrected code.<br>4. Knows how to rebuild/deploy. || WMFR's new server sysop ? (to be hired) || Uncertain<br />
|-<br />
| high || Add new language to LinguaLibre || 1. Has <code>administrator</code> user rights<br>2. Can read tutorial {add tutorial link here} || Has done it: Pamputt, Lyokoy, Yug, ... || 90%<br />
|-<br />
| high || Read Phabricator task, fix code || 1. Has background knowledge to understand bug description.<br>2. Edit code, test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || No replacement for real code, code deployment.<br>Replacements available for CSS, wiki content fixes. || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Assign user rights || 1. Has bureaucrats status<br>2. Know how to assign new user rights. || [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]: 0x010C, GrandCelinien, Pamputt, Xenophôn.<br>Few more wouldn't hurt to counter unequal activity levels. || 100%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Github repository manager || 1. Have access to repository {link here}.<br>2. Has <code>owner</code> status.<br>3. Can manage userrights || Has basic understanding: Yug, Pamputt... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| medium || Create tasks on Phabricator || 1. Have account on phabricator.<br>2. Has background knowledge to write sharp bug / task description.<br>3. Know to manage Phabricator tasks || Pamputt, Lyokoï, Yug, ... || 70%<br />
|-<br />
| low - assumed very stable || LinguaLibre -> Wikimedia Commons API communication || 1. Knows NodeJS (?) scripts.<br>Well documented on [[:mw:API]].<br>2. Knows where to edit existing nodes scripts.<br>3. Can test locally.<br>4. Has access rights to push. || Has basic understanding: Yug, others ? || 10%<br />
|-<br />
| low || Update site's CSS || 1. Edit [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] (hack)<br>or<br>1. Edit {git repository page}. || Has basic understanding of the hack way: Yug, ... || 30%<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <small>Please help describe where we need help to take on 0x010C's skills. This year long's departure is the opportunity to us to increase our know how in these various fields. See also: [[:Commons:Category:Lingua_Libre]].</small><br />
|-<br />
| colspan=5| <center>[[File:2018-12_Lingua_Libre_webrequest_flow.png|center|700px]]</center><br />
|}<br />
:Thanks for that overview. For now, the worst is there is no developer at all. without that, I think, we can only list all the issues we encounter on Phabricator waiting one is hired by WMFr or other. Considering all the tickets opened on Phabricator, a new developer can be busy for several month, especially if he/she does not very well the project as 0x010C does. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes. I'am quite worry about the speeded-up-audios and add-language bugs. The first literally throw to the trash hour-long efforts and '''pollute''' existing audios datasets, really bad. The second prevents diversity growth. It would be good to mount an emergency budget to pay 0x010C to fix these 2 critical phabricator issues before he leaves. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
==== Feedbacks from 0x010C ====<br />
Ok! So, I just got a correct phone-call with 0x010C! 0x has great projects ahead it's awesome, so happy.<br><br />
Also, he pointed out the following points:<br />
* 0x010C will pass by LL's discussion page to '''add pointers''' to the table above and answer questions.<br />
** This will occurs in late October.<br />
* 0x010C will ''not'' be able to '''inspect the speeding-up bug''' : we need to find an alternative to fix this.<br />
* 0x010C underlined the most critical need : '''a server sysop''', able to do server maintenance and restarts processes. Some peripheral routines such as the SPARQL counter occasionally fails and needs to be restarted manually.<br />
<br />
First, '''on the speeding-up bug''', we therefor have 2 ways to push forward :<br />
# Corner the bug. We currently suspect it to be linked to Chrome. Test more. With various browsers. Record 30 words, listen to them, then report results (see section below)<br />
# Hire a freelance asap. The bug is suspected to be within https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder . There, the last 2 modifications and prime suspects are:<br />
#* 2020-05-09 [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/AudioRecord.js]<br />
#* 2020-04-28: [https://github.com/lingua-libre/LinguaRecorder/commit/102aa5041cbe24255fdb522bb045f693e9ca05fd#diff-e3f94ea1709f1bc0a8f6d9b4d22192f2 src/LinguaRecorder.js]<br />
<br />
Secondly, on the '''critical server's maintenance, Wikimedia France's server sysop is also leaving soon''' and the next one is not yet identified. So we may need to send a far reaching call for a server sysop's help, either a volunteer, or the sysop of some friendly chapter ? (UK? DE? IT?) It could equally be the opportunity to open up deeply to non-French member. LL is 3 years old yet most of the LL's admins are French. Not smart. I would especially encourage to open up toward the Indian community, Odia, Tamil, who have been quite active and with high quality feedbacks. They themselves developed a shell-based audio recording tools few years back, so there is there a culture which value orality and acts to protect it. The call shouldn't be limited to this community. The Mediawiki community (techs), Commons, Wikidata, could have some relevant volunters with the needed skillsets. Would be good if we could write together a call to find a volunteer server sysop, together with a call for more diverse contributions to LinguaLibre. <br />
<br />
While we can co-write this call asap, I think we should first corner the speeding-up bug before asking people to join in and contribute. So as long as the speeding-up bug is unsolved, we can only call for a server sysop, not for more contributors. <br />
<br />
Meanwhile, please update the table above as you feel suit. I'am sure I forgot a lot of things. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Speeding-up bug : call for testers ==<br />
Please, we need testers to corner that nasty bug ! Could you test recording with various browsers ? Go to [[Special:RecordWizard]], pick a random language, record 30 words, listen to them, [DO NOT UPLOAD], then report here the resulting pentad ;) <br />
* Test list (suggested) : <code>List:Kur/Test</code> (10 words)<br />
* Username : <code>yourusername</code><br />
* Speeding bug : <code>true|false</code><br />
* Web browser : <code>name-version</code><br />
* OS : <code>name-version</code><br />
* Microphone : <code>internal|external</code><br />
[[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 18:00, 22 September 2020 (UTC) PS: {{ping|DSwissK}}<br />
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"<br />
! Tester username || Success rate || Web browser + version || OS + version || Microphone type || Comments<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome 84.0.4183.127 || Android 9 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| ClasseNoes || 0% (speeding bug occurs at every recording) || Google Chrome || ChromeOS || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| Luilui6666 || 0% (speeding bug occurs<br>on one session) || Google Chrome || MacOS || || 126 (100%) audios of [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the 04:5*am upload batch] are corrupted. This session contains longer than average phrases. Session before and after are ok.<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chromium 85.0.4183.121 (64-bit) || Ubuntu 20.04 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Kiwi 77.0.3865.92 (2020-08-15) || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || external || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Yug || 100% (no bug) || Chrome 80.0.3987.99 || Android 9 || internal || Observed at step 5. Review before Publish. List:Kur/Test (10 words)<br />
|-<br />
| Pamputt || 100% (no bug) || Firefox 78.3.0 esr || Mageia Linux 7 || internal || <br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.75 || Android 10 || internal || List:Fra/Dico des Ados (3k+ words)<br />
|-<br />
| DSwissK || 100% (no bug) || Google Chrome 86.0.4240.99 || Android 10 || external|| List:Fra/Dico des Ados/alea (54 words)<br />
|-<br />
| <add yourself> || || || || ||<br />
|}<br />
{{Ping|ClasseNoes|DSwissK}} It works fine with me on both Chrome and Chromium. Did you and could you try with other OSes ? [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{Ping|Titodutta|Lyokoï|Pamputt}}, we need help to corner the speed up bug by doing more devices testings. Could you help ? INALCO workshop is on Oct. 17th. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the information relative to my configuration. Another explanation may be the internet quality (bandwith, latency, etc). In the case of micro-cuts, some software accelerates the voice to make up for the delay. So maybe it could happen more often with 3G connection instead of optical fibers. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:50, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::0x010C was suggesting a purely client-side issue. The recording into audio data are done client-side. I don't see clear pattern emerge so far. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 21:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::It's definitely NOT internet quality for ClasseNoes and myself. We had a good connexion (not over mobile) and the bug occured at several days of difference. [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 06:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::'''Current assessment:''' 3 out of 3 of our users with speeding bug used Google Chrome (v84?), on Android 9, ChromeOS, MacOS. The best lead we have so far is a Google Chrome recording API implementation-related, either due to a recent Google Chrome update, or to recent LinguaLibre JS's update done by 0x010C around May. (See above to link to suspected JS code). I took a quick (3mins) look at "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&oq=Chrome+audio+recording+speed+bug&uact=5 Google Chrome + audio recording + speed bug]" but nothing conclusive.<br />
:::::'''More tests?:''' Could you [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] & [[User:ClasseNoes|ClasseNoes]]* test again on the same devices (hardware, OS) but with different web browser.<br />
:::::@ClasseNoes: could you check your exact Google Chrome's version ?<br />
:::::@DSwissK, after retesting on Android 9 Chrome v.84, do you have the possibility to update so to test Android 9 Chrome to v.85 ?Android 9 Chrome to v.85 works for me on small test lists (~10 items). Could you also comment more : does this speeding bug show up ''EACH'' time you use this Android 9 Chrome v.84 pair ? Is there a saturation effect with longer lists ?<br />
:::::<nowiki>*: Luilui6666 is a student who did a paid recording sprint on Cantonese and moved on, he volutarily helped a lot already with the `ratelimit` bug, I can't request further free help from this side. PS: 270€ for 9h and 5000 audios despite the ratelimit bug. Really fruitful experiment! Worth it to boost a language.</nowiki> [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 12:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::: I was thinking maybe it was because of the huge list I'm using ([[List:Fra/Dico des Ados]]) but no, it works fine (see last row) on last Chrome version (and Android 10 that I flashed this week-end on the same smartphone). [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 07:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::{{ping|DSwissK}} I suspect Google Chrome v84 to be the issue. But we have not enough details to be conclusive. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::::::After verification, Luilui6666 had both corrupted batch and non-corrupted batch of audios about 30mins appart. Recordings ok before and after [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Luilui6666&offset=20200717000000&limit=128&target=Luilui6666 the corrupted session]. My Chrome-centered hypothesis is challenged. Must be something else. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Yug, how did it go on Oct 17 ? Did you encounter that problem with some users ? [[User:DSwissK|DSwissK]] ([[User talk:DSwissK|talk]]) 11:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lingua Libre Story for September 2020 ==<br />
<br />
:''This is not an official story or newsletter. This is an attempt by the project user(s) to share some updates about the program. There might be more stories which we have missed.''<br><br />
September 2020 was an eventful month and we have seen a lot of activities of uploading new content and also around project-related discussion. Here are some of the best stories from September 2020.<br />
* '''300,000 files:''' On 10 September 2020 we completed 300,000 pronunciation uploads. After the launch in August 2018, the first 100,000 files were uploaded in April 2019, and the milestone of 200,000 files was reached on January 2020. As of 30 September 2020 there are 366 speakers at this project working in 92 languages.<br />
* '''Maximum number of pronunciations in a month:''' In September 2020, 23,209 files were uploaded. This is the maximum number of files uploaded ever in a particular calendar month (earlier it was 22,963 files in June 2020, and 22,293 files in May 2019).<br />
* '''Indian language in top 3 list:''' This month Bengali language came into the top three languages by the number of files uploaded using Lingua Libre. This is possibly the first time a non-European/Indian language came into the top three most-uploaded languages on the project. As of 30 September there were 26,757 files in Bengali (the top two languages by file count were French: 164,626 files and Esperanto: 28,100)<br />
* '''Project chat:''' Several discussion started on the Chat room, such as [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#Speeding-up_bug_:_call_for_testers|Bug testing]] (you may help), [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room#0x010C_year_offgrid_:_preparations|Technical preparations]] etc.<br />
* '''Coming:''' 1) Oct. 17th's workshop at [[:en:INALCO|INALCO University]], Paris. This University teach about 105 languages. 2) In late October, [[User:0x010C]] willing to share server's know-how before year-long departure off-grid.<br />
That's it. Have a good time. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 16:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Thank you [[User:Titodutta]], it's an interesting format. We can also think of it as collaborative news-letter, edited here, then shareable to our networks. I added a "Coming" section. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== English label and non-English label ==<br />
Most probably I did not notice this earlier [[Q389651]]. Label: this is not English, this is Bengali. My language is set to Bengali as well. Sad thing is: this affects many Bengali files, if not all. I also saw one of the recent uploads in other language: Esperanto: [[Q389566]]. For Bengali, and several other languages the script is completely different. (a whole lot of bot work I think). Opinion? --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:04, 4 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} not sure if this is really a bug. This behaviour comes from the fact Lingua Libre uses Wikibase to handle its own items. And Wikibase allows as many labels as there are languages but actually we do not need any label on Lingua Libre. So, by default it is always English. That's said, I understand it can be weird for some people, so I think the label should be the word that has been recording in English and in the language of the word so that it can be displayed as it when we you use Lingua Libre in your mother tongue. Or maybe it could be the same label for all languages. Anyway, except it is a bit strange, it is not a big deal because these labels are not used by any one. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other bugs from India ==<br />
Hi [[User:Titodutta|কথা]], I was happy to meet you tonight even if it was short. About the bugs you discussed I have created [[phab:T264790|T264790]]. There is also the problem with the labels discussed above. You talk about a problem about duplicates in the word list but I am not sure I have understood correctly because I was not able to reproduce. So could you open a bug report on Phrabricator to describe what is wrong? If you are uncomfortable with Phabricator, you can describe the problem here and I will open the ticket over there. And there was also another point but I have forgotten it so could you kindly remind me? [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
* The 4 bugs we discussed today: <br />
:a) Special pages showing errors, you have explained it above. <br />
:: {{done}} [[phab:T264790|T264790]].<br />
<br />
: b)Post file move error on Wikimedia Commons: it has 2 types of problems: on Commons, after moved the files are not displayed, b) "Remove words already recorded" don't count those words, so if LL-...Hello.wav is moved to LL-...Bonjour.wav, LinguaLibre does not understand Bonjour is already recorded, and asks to record again.<br />
:: This is currently an issue. Ideally, recording should not be renamed manually because it happens what you described. The problem comes rom the fact the Commons database and the Lingua Libre Wikibase are not connected. The workaround is to modify manually the Lingua Libre item corresponding to the recording once renaming has been done on Commons. <br />
:: If Wikimedia France finds some money, a tool allowing to rename and to apply the needed changes in Lingua Libre could be developed. See [[phab:T264789|T264789]] for a brief overview (you should develop further what we would like this tool be able to do).<br />
<br />
: c) some words are being eliminated: I'll try to explain this: a particular word, such as "Paris", when I try to generate from a category from Wikipedia, I get this word and record it. Then I try another option: "Nearby" to generate words, and there also I get the same word. Now, ''possibly'' LiLi ''sometimes'' fails to understand the word is already recorded. This is not applicable for all files, I have seen this in 3-4 files. <br>Let me give a clear example, see [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&oldid=330125#P19 this edit]. This is pretty clear I got the word from Wikipedia. The immediate [https://lingualibre.org/index.php?title=Q381622&type=revision&diff=339010&oldid=330125 next edit] I used "Nearby" to get a list.<br>I have checked it for words. I once I can find more samples, I'll report a bug.<br />
:: Hard to debug. I tried several times with several words and I was not able to reproduce this bug. Are you sure you clicked on "Remove words already recorded"? So not sure opening a bug report is very useful until you have a word that triggers this bug. Did you try to rerecord [[Q381622]] to see wether this bug occurs again?<br />
<br />
: d) There are actually more bugs, which we did not discuss, that may need quick fix: For example if you use Vector Skin ([https://lingualibre.org/wiki/LinguaLibre:Main_Page?useskin=vector click here for preview]) at the top of the page it says "A maintenance operation is planned for today. ..." I am seeing this message for 2 months now. It might be a minor fix, perhaps we forgot to remove this notice. b) vector skin main page may need more work, as the main page is designed for LiLi skin, the recent files and other nice designs are not working in vector at all.<br />
:: Lingua Libre supports officially only one skin (BlueLLs). I guess Vector has not been disabled when we moved to the new version of the website. I will open a ticket to ask to remove Vector so that there is only one skin to support. See [[phab:T265079|T265079]].<br />
<br />
: e) Coming to internationalization (which is not a bug): some important pages need to be in English also, as of now, such as [[LinguaLibre:Privacy_policy]]. Of course the page can be marked for translation, however until the page is in English also, this might a bit difficult to translate directly from French. <br />
:: This is known. A working group is planned to work on the documentation page later this month. We will move all pages to English and make them translatable before the end of the year.<br />
<br />
:(Fun fact: You saw I used the word "LiLi". Sometime ago I posted on your talk page about the pronunciation of "LinguaLibre". I am aware in Indian community we often use the short form LiLi/Lili in our discussion, which is a [https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/lili/ female name] in multiple language including a few Indian languages.)<br />
: This was indeed good to talk you. This was very kind you switched to English briefly. As gradually we are seeing more contribution from India and other countries, possibly we can have a global meet/France-India meet in future. <br />
Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:: {{support}} I approve using the nickname "'''LiLi'''"! — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Yes, it's an elegant nickname. Thanks for the suggestion :) [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC) (The writen "LL" don't translate well when we oralize it in French.)<br />
{{ping|Titodutta}} for '''e)''', I've marked the page for translation, and translated it into English :). Please do not hesitate if you see other pages in the same situation. — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 13:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} I answered point by point in your text to make the discussion more understandable. Feel free to reply below. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add "Recent changes (non-audio)" to "Tools" menu ==<br />
:2. Reverted. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 09:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:1. {{Done}} -- this allow quick access to list of recent changes, without the MASSIVE overload of audio recordings. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
I just found out my [[User:Yug/common.js]] doesnt work, doesn't even run a simple <code>console.log("Hello world!")</code>. Any idea why ?<br />
<br />
[[MediaWiki:common.js]] does work as expected. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:[[:mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript]]: ''"If $wgAllowUserJs is set to true, users can customize the interface for only themselves by creating and importing personal scripts in certain user subpages."'' [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 14:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:Damn. I wanted to test on myself before to move to [[MediaWiki:common.js]] [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 15:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Yug}} I reverted what you did. I think it is not a good idea to enable it for everyone because it loads more javascript for something that almost no one uses; it is possible to get the same results in a few clicks. So please, add this code only in your [[Special:MyPage/common.js|common.js]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 19:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::Hello Pamputt. As explained above, [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] is not activated on LL so I couldn't test it there first and we aren't able to do so. So I went ahead and tested this non-breaking change on the site-wide Common.js.<br />
:::Ok for the revert. Review and community discussion and approval was required, your input and revert are meaningful parts of this required discussion.<br />
:::'''As for the whole rational...''' ''Recent change'' is an access point which mainly allow active users do to patrolling activity. <br />
:::Current Recent change ([[Special:RecentChanges]]) access point just display 50 last changes while Lili records between 300 and 700 audios per days. The stream of recent changes is therefor overfloaded by large amount of audios files which no-one but the speaker actually will create, edit, review. Does someone browser those 3~700 audios changes daily? listen them ? Can you or me review the correctness of Bengali recordings' file names ? Or review their content correctness ? Unlikely. As far as I can see, it's a stream of "Done" things : there is no practical patrolling to do this flow of audio files, nor is it any need to patrol them. This situation is proper to LinguaLibre. Most wikis are text based. [[:Commons:Special:RecentChanges]] is an hybrid with uploads but also lot of file renaming, editing, discussions, projects pages so the stream is a mix. LinguaLibre file-work is close to 100% only uploading it by the speaker. Then nothing, the stream is dispatched to Commons.<br />
:::On the other hand, the meaningful changes done on textual pages which require active monitoring is made harder since these textual changes are buried down among the number of audio files. It seems to me that patrolling edited text-pages (documentation, discussion, user pages) seems as or more relevant, but is currently made inaccessible or accessible via a more complex access point.<br />
:::But definitive adoption would needs consensus, which we haven't. So no quick adoption needed. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 08:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Suggestions: a) enable user common.js and common.css pages (I was not aware that these pages are disabled!), AND/OR b) put this as an opt-in gadget at [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets|Special:Preferences/Gadgets]]. The "Gadgets" page is empty now, and gradually gadgets can be added, mostly to be opted in (or manually enabled) by interested users. Kind regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 23:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I do not know why user common.js is disable. Anyway, I added a new gadget for this settings. So feel free to enable it. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 09:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::I think the default php setting is without personal js. The developer has to set <code>$wgAllowUserJs</code> to true, which 0x010C apparently never did because the need never arose before. [[User:Yug|Yug]] ([[User talk:Yug|talk]]) 13:35, 12 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation ==<br />
I translated into English several pages ([[LinguaLibre:Privacy policy]], [[Help:Your first record]] and [[LinguaLibre:About]]) that were originally written in French, and marked the new versions for translation (I also marked for translation the latest version of [[LinguaLibre:Stats]], which includes the latest crossed thresholds in the description paragraph, and a new row in a table). I think the translation of the pages will be easier for non-French-speakers as from now. Though, '''''every translation of these pages - '''except in French''' - is now outdated (for all or part of it)'''''.<br />
<br />
While translating (or patrolling other people translating), please be careful with the code (one should not change the code on translation pages, only on the main page (/en)). — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 11:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br/><br />
<small>PS: for the Stats page, I changed the translation areas, to limit the amount of code in the translation, in order to limit the risks of translators breaking the code — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:13, 10 October 2020 (UTC)</small><br />
<br />
:Perfect. Meanwhile, I finish to translate the main page and I added a button at the bottom to be able to translate this page. So, go ahead :) [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 15:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::{{ping|Pamputt}} Great! All of this is a big step forward {{smile}}. I think we could also take some time to design improvements for the chat room. Like most "Village pumps", we could divide it in two parts: permanent content in one hand, such as the FAQs, but in the other hand, some content such as this topic, archived after a while (for instance every 3-6 months, since it is not too active), in order to make the page lighter and easier to read. Also, the link "Start a new discussion" does not seem to be working. When I look over the text of the Header it's clickable, but not on the actual page... — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 21:25, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:::{{ping|WikiLucas00}} Good idea to create a FAQ page in parallel of the chat room; feel free to start one. If you are interested in documentation, there is a meeting end of October (https://framadate.org/1C4aA6vVYWz2izgp). About archiving the chat room, this is done once a year (manually) ; see [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2018]] and [[LinguaLibre:Chat_room/Archives/2019]]. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stats page ==<br />
Is the Stats page loading now? <br>Some parts of the source page should not be taken by Fuzzybot to other language pages as it is. For example, the Statistics (En) page had language labels in "Fr" (which should have been in En, as the page was in En), while translating I fixed it. Now it is again broken, and I can not edit the bn page, other than translating. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:{{ping|Titodutta}} You are not able to change the labels while translating? for instance in this section, you could replace the words that are within quotation marks by words in Bengali: <nowiki><query yearmonth="Date" records="New records" speakers="Active speakers" languages="Active languages"></nowiki> — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 22:16, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, yes, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gUo138CfGh3Y6noWwQ144d7tMuCO2v01/view?usp=sharing translating] seems to be the only option. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 22:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::* The stat page seems to be much slower now to load. Can anyone else check please? Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 00:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
: {{ping|Titodutta}} I just understood you were talking about the name of each language in the table, and not the title of the columns. Sorry for this. I added a new section to the translation, it's mostly some code, and in theory the translator only has to insert the language code instead of "en" in the section. The thing is, only "fr" and "en" seem to be working... I set the English stats page and every translated stats page to "en", except for French (it made more sense like this). I don't know where to find the "languageLabel" in order to translate them into other languages... <br/> I tried many changes to the requests and really felt the slowness of the current system while waiting everytime for the tables to load. {{ping|Pamputt}}, do you know if we could be able to add a cache to this pages (to be purged on a regular basis), to avoid having to load the whole request everytime?(for translated stats pages, the waiting time is so long that I don't think many people wait until the end) — '''[[User:WikiLucas00|WikiLucas]]''' [[User talk:WikiLucas00|(🖋️)]] 00:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
:* Bn is working fine at [[User:Titodutta/প্রশ্ন]], other languages should work fine as well. Each language is an item such as [[Q126]], which needs labels in different languages. Thanks. --[[User:Titodutta|টিটো দত্ত (Titodutta)]] ([[User talk:Titodutta|কথা]]) 01:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
::I am not really an expert of the SPARQL system. [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] knows much more about that. I only know there is a [[phab:T212079|bug report]] about the performance issues. [[User:Pamputt|Pamputt]] ([[User talk:Pamputt|talk]]) 08:11, 11 October 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Priorities of Lingua Libre==<br />
I've looked around and I can't seem to find any priorities of this project. It seems that the overall goal is to record pronunciation, but how this will be done is less clear. Based on my experience with Forvo, I think that this will help the project. <br />
# Focus on pronouncing headwords first. Forvo is flooded with overly specific phrases that only a few uses will use. It would be helpful to scrape a large authoritative dictionary such as the OED, Duden, or TLFI to get a list of words. I don't think that words are under copyright.<br />
# For each headword, pronounce it with the definite, indefinite, and solo; e.g. "the dog", "a dog", "dog". Also pronounce the declined forms in languages such as Latin or German. Group them all on one page under the headword. For phrases, there's no need to inflect or decline them.<br />
# User supplied lists are great, but quickly turn into a headache. They require lots of proofreading that can overwhelm editors.<br />
# It's better to provide users with a list of words that they can pronounce from a project management standpoint. This list should be randomized at each refresh in case the user is not interested in the selection. Let users see the list first and then make them log in.<br />
# Accents matter and should be tagged as part of the filename. For example, "LL-Q1860_(eng)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" contains no accent information. "LL-Q1860_(eng_Au)-Commander_Keane-phonate.wav" would be better. Also, allow users to filter by accent codes. We would need to think about and propose a list of accents for each language.<br />
# We should initially focus on completing authoritative list such as HSK or JLPT. This would help language learners the most.<br />
# Recording quality matters. Words pronounced with lots of static or background hum should be deleted unless it's a truly rare language.<br />
# Recording level should be automatically normalized across the entire corpus. We don't want one word at 140db and the other at 20db.<br />
# It would be great to develop an Anki plugin that would enable users to automatically add audio to flashcards. This is the biggest downside to Forvo that requires users to manually add one word at a time. Providing an Anki plugin will help to popularize this project attracting new users. Since, Anki is python based, this can be based on the French bot. Having a large group of testers can help to identify how the metadata of these files can be improved. <br />
These are my few thoughts and I'd love to hear any feedback. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 19:30, 20 October 2020 (UTC)</div>Languageseeker